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Also, to make this more fun, next game (before the unrestricted leader Immortal clusterfuck) will be a newbie succession game, on Prince or Noble. I've got a couple of ideas on what I want to do, but the best way I can deal with this is tell me if you're interested, the level you normally play at and what you think your biggest weakness is, and I'll try and make a game/gameplan catering to it.
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Dec 14, 2017 13:24
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Chucat posted:Also, to make this more fun, next game (before the unrestricted leader Immortal clusterfuck) will be a newbie succession game, on Prince or Noble. I've got a couple of ideas on what I want to do, but the best way I can deal with this is tell me if you're interested, the level you normally play at and what you think your biggest weakness is, and I'll try and make a game/gameplan catering to it. Interested (still), Prince and Military. My current game to get back into the swing of things is Perecles/Ethiopia just to give you an idea of how I like to roll.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:14
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First thing before I forget. Please don't queue up moves when you send the save over! Anyway, got the save: 1) We are comically behind on cities, Shaka is on 5, Cyrus is on 6 and we're on 4(!), I know we have a Settler in production and we rushed Oracle, but still. If we're getting fast Code of Laws we don't really have major breaks on our expansion at this point except for... 2) Soldiers, on power we're dead last, we're on 53k worth of power, I'm gonna assume Shaka is 1st and thus on 126k, 41k of that is in Barracks and that stack though, as a pretty generous estimation. 3) On actual demographics though, we're first on food, for now, and we're 2nd and 3rd in GNP and Production respectively. which is good. Basically we just need more cities. However, there's something SLIGHTLY more pressing: Namely the pissant little stack.  Anyway, I'm following Borsche's plan. However, I've whipped the Granary in Fargopolis (which I've renamed to Marmaris), Edirne will take the unworked Cottage tile for a few turns after next turn and then Marmaris will take it back afterwards. Workers are moving to chop down the forests around Istanbul to get another Settler out right after while also growing around the chop turns.  To the surprise of almost no one, Shaka declares war on us. I'm really loath to whip an Axe in Erdine, so I have the chariot sit between the two cities to be a warm body if needed.  So, we have 3 Axes and a Chariot vs a Sword, an Axe, an Impi and 2 Archers. In order for Shaka to take this city, he has to win 4 fights, with 5 units, if he loses 2 fights, he literally cannot take the city because there'll be defenders in there. To sweeten the deal for us, our 'best' unit will always defend against whatever he attacks us with. Naturally, he doesn't attack and walks past the city, which means he MIGHT be able to fork two of our cities with an Impi, so I put another Warrior in Marmaris.  And there we go.  Bursa is founded, I have to research Fishing so uh, yeah.  I left signs up because I'm lazy, we have another city to drop next turn one tile South of the "GP Farm", I would say a Work Boat can get chopped out instantly but then I just remembered this isn't RtR so there's no production bonus to Work Boats, on the bright side you can put 20 hammers instantly into it. Shaka wiped ANOTHER stack into us and will sign a white peace with us if you want to do that. I'm also pumping Settlers in Istanbul and that other production city we have. The only thing we lost to Shaka was a Hamlet he pillaged into nothing. Sad! Also he has Horse Archers so that's why I'm getting a couple of Spears. https://chucat.s-ul.eu/X3jj1sWz
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Dec 14, 2017 20:30
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Suitable music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14YHs0375tY Things are going well, and one of the cities has a much cooler name than the rest. 
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Dec 14, 2017 20:58
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Either way, Borsche is up, and if anyone wants to ask questions I can answer them, just wasn't able to say much during the actual turns because not much actually happened.
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Dec 14, 2017 21:09
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Paul.Power posted:I like the way that the forest tiles conform to the big fat cross. I think the capital placement algorithm will add forest tiles to blank flat tiles if it thinks that your start does not have enough resources. This is also a good tell -- if you have a blank grassland/plains tile surrounded by forest, there is a good chance that there's a hidden strategic resource there!
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Dec 14, 2017 21:14
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Not our hamlet! That was our first ever cottage, Shaka you bastard  Guess that city won't really be a GP farm if we move it south, as it loses the corn. Just a normal commerce city then.I think we probably need to kill Shaka and take his stuff, right? We're going to run out of nearby city spots soon and he's going to not be a reliable ally/trade partner. The question I'd have is when's the best time to do it?
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Dec 14, 2017 21:29
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Magil Zeal posted:Not our hamlet! That was our first ever cottage, Shaka you bastard The best time is gonna be when we hit construction and can spit out cats. Do we have ivory anywhere?
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Dec 14, 2017 21:50
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Chucat posted:1) We are comically behind on cities, Shaka is on 5, Cyrus is on 6 and we're on 4(!) earlyoracle.txt imo the wonder is a bit of a trap if you're not IND or started with some real easy marble. sure it's not expensive but by the time those hammers/worker turns aren't better spent on settlers it's usually gone, so you have to make some real sacrifices that i'm not convinced are worth it all that often. if you've got good commerce from terrain - big rivers, gold, etc - i think it's an easy pass. Magil Zeal posted:I think we probably need to kill Shaka and take his stuff, right? We're going to run out of nearby city spots soon and he's going to not be a reliable ally/trade partner. The question I'd have is when's the best time to do it? i want to say with cats and axes ASAP before he gets lbows online. otherwise it's probably best to wait for maces or knights - though this runs the risk of him getting castles, which takes ages to bombard down.
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Dec 14, 2017 21:54
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Borsche69 posted:The best time is gonna be when we hit construction and can spit out cats. Do we have ivory anywhere? No ivory that I ever saw, we're not that lucky. I do have one question: the gems mine in our capital's BFC doesn't appear to be being worked in the final image? Was there a particular reason for that? Seems like you could swap off the plain river farm or the southern grassland mine (and give the mine to Ankara to work instead of that unimproved plains forest) for it.
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Dec 14, 2017 21:54
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Magil Zeal posted:Not our hamlet! That was our first ever cottage, Shaka you bastard We lose the Corn but get a Flood Plain, so it might still be a decent GPP farm. Magil Zeal posted:No ivory that I ever saw, we're not that lucky. I think it was something to do with production, but feel free to swap it back. Chucat fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Dec 14, 2017 |
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Dec 14, 2017 21:58
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Aww. I was hoping to start a trend with the city names.  Oh well. We're lucky we had that easy to reach Copper available. It's something worth noting for people who are more familiar with the newer games that Copper is a Strategic Resource here in 4. You need to have either it or Iron, which comes later, hooked up via Road to your Trade Network in order to build pretty much any melee units better than Warriors until Gunpowder comes along.
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Dec 14, 2017 22:27
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Civ4 is the one game in the main series I've never played (preemptive: don't tell me to play it, I'm one of those lunatics who really enjoys Civilization: Beyond Earth), good to know Shaka being a dick is constant.
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Dec 14, 2017 22:34
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Do we have any techs we plan to beeline for or plans for long term allies? I've read that having a pet attack dog that you can manipulate into proxy wars can be a valid strategy, but Shaka's probably too close for that. I can't remember the slightest thing about Cyrus, is he a stable personality?
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Dec 14, 2017 23:09
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Jaguars! posted:I can't remember the slightest thing about Cyrus, is he a stable personality? on the aggressive side, but you can get along with him. he likes building units and has only 3/10 peace weight. flavors are military 5 and wonders 2. he doesn't start wars over refused demands and hates dogpiling. more likely to start huge wars than just try to steal an exposed city. if we want to get on his good side we could plan a GA and swap into vassalage, between running his favorite civic and sharing a religion that should keep him pretty friendly. i dunno how to handle him long-term. our only border is a garbage city that isn't close enough to be threatening, so taking that doesn't feel pressing at all. probably best to just keep our options open and scout out his lands more. giving in to a demand might be worth it for the relations boost, even if he won't wardec either way.
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Dec 14, 2017 23:40
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Alright, initial roundup - we crack the drat whip and begin by taking 3 cities to task. I also swap Ankara from a Settler to a Worker; we need way more workers. I also hire scientists in a couple of cities. There are too many cities working unimproved tiles! a 2F1H1C tile or something like that is really lovely and that citizen is much more useful being turned into either 30 hammers or pure beakers.  Found Konya and immediately chop into a workboat. Probably should've waited for Math to come in so we get 30 hammers instead of 20 but it's not a big deal either way, and having your workers sit around doing nothing isn't doing anyone any good.  No extra food up here. I decide to settle 1W of the lake tile, and 2W of the corn tile. After settling, we get a map from the hut and the archer suicides into our Chariot.  Shaka loses another Impi and takes peace. We'll be back to get him once construction comes in.  Overview. It looks like Byzantines are on the island to our northwest. We might want to grab sailing and dump a city on there (I think a galley can make it across). Techs went Mathematics -> Masonry -> Monarchy. Our biggest limiting factor right now is happiness, and nothing is gonna help like Hereditary Rule. Calendar, Currency, and Construction are the other typical options, but we don't have much in the way of plantation resources, we don't have any good international routes yet, and its probably too early to start building the stack to kill Shaka given that we just dropped 3 cities in 10 turns. http://www.mediafire.com/file/hbq4einwcdc0wdd/Civ_4_LP_T100.CivBeyondSwordSave
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Dec 15, 2017 04:54
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Borsche69 posted:I also hire scientists in a couple of cities. There are too many cities working unimproved tiles! a 2F1H1C tile or something like that is really lovely and that citizen is much more useful being turned into either 30 hammers or pure beakers. Oh good, I'm not the only person who cringes whenever I see a citizen working an unimproved tile at this point in the game. So it's Captain Fargle's turn, correct? Or who's up next?
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Dec 15, 2017 16:20
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I was wondering where the other civilizations were since you guys have only met 2, but I guess the peninsula explains that.
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Dec 15, 2017 16:27
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I'm the one playing the next ten turns
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Dec 15, 2017 17:21
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Botswana! posted:I'm the one playing the next ten turns Yeah I really should've just looked at the list myself and figured that out, now I feel dumb. Civ looks to be in good shape imo, Chucat reported the Ottomons first in food in demos which I find to be a pretty good indicator of success at this point in the game. With that said I usually play on Epic speed so my timing's a bit off, I really don't have a good sense as to whether or not the tech progress is good or not. Once all the gems are being worked with libraries the tech rate will get a nice bump.
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Dec 15, 2017 17:44
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Okay turns 100-110 Not a lot happens in this turnset. We research Monarchy; move onto Construction. We get an extra three workers out and set them to do things like build things up north near our new cities; and chop out some sorely needed Hammans or Libraries in the south. Though we're getting Hereditary rule anyway, Hammans still help us out - a flat 2 happy and 2 health bonus is very good imo. After those are done we also set our production cities to start on some more axes and spears. We need to start building an army to attack Shaka pronto. We also traded some surplus gems to Cyrus for Spices. Our happiness issues are completely gone.  We pop this guy from Instanbul too. Thanks Oracle! He can either be used to pick up a 8 turn Golden Age (meaning we can also switch into Hereditary Rule without a turn of revolt) for an economic boost, or we can use him for the Confucian Shrine. This would add roughly 8-10 gpt right now if we did it. It also spreads Confucianism; and we can make three of our citizens into priests. Shrines can be an integral part of a player's economy, but it's up to our next player to pick.  Our economy is very good. We make 44 gold a turn at 0% Science, and expend 39 gpt at 100%. We produce roughly 114 beakers at 100%. Now's the time to get to unit pumping.  Oh boy, time for tech trading. Cyrus got Alphabet, meaning we can trade techs with him if we so desire. He got it this turn at turn 110. I'd say we want to pick up Iron working. The only tech we have that he doesn't is Mysticism. He doesn't have Polytheism and all that as well, in that case. It might be possible to trade him Mysticism as a gift, and then see if we can bargain using the techs then opened up to him. Either way, let's try and wrangle either Alphabet, or Iron Working from him. Tech trading is either really cool or it really sucks. If you get a bum deal in terms of trading partners, or you get shut out from the trading game, it can leave you in a rut. I typically play with a mod that turns off tech trading until Paper. A tactic people use is to beeline a high beaker tech and then pawn it off for all the other stuff they may want later. Notes for next guy: - We want to revolt into Hereditary Rule for the garrison happiness. Revolt the same turn you make your decision w/r/t the Great Prophet (stationed in our southern city.) If you pick the shrine, still revolt anyway. - No pressure on your pick. I'll say that we're most likely to snag a Great Scientist next time bc Erdirne has a lot of GPP stashed in a Great Scientist, and is thus the place we'll probably pop our next GP. - Build some troops. We need Catapults once we get Construction!! - Shaka isn't plotting rn, but watch him carefully. - Work on our northern cities a lil. Save: http://www.mediafire.com/file/wu0pfxusl4hkeck/CIV_4_LP_T110.CivBeyondSwordSave
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Dec 15, 2017 18:08
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I think there's probably no wrong decision for Shrine vs. GA. If we go GA then we're going to want to grab whatever unlocks Organized Religion (Monotheism?) so we can swap to both HR and OR. We have a Great Scientist coming out next so this should influence our decision. If we go with the Shrine, then we should hold off on a GA until we research Civil Service for our swap into Bureaucracy. Though we should swap into Monarchy regardless. If this were pitboss I'd probably lean towards the GA I think? And put the Academy from the future GS in our capital? But the caveat on that is that we should have some of our northern cities grow and improve more of their tiles for the GA to be effective. For those that don't know, all a Golden Age does is improve the tile yields by 1 for every tile (excluding food) and doubles your Great Person Point generation. So a 1 food 1 hammer 1 commerce tile becomes a 1 food 2 hammer 2 commerce tile. A single scientist specialist produces 6 gpp/turn instead of 3. So GAs are really only very powerful when your cities are very large and working a lot of tiles/lots of specialists. GAs also remove all anarchy and allow you to swap civics without wasting turns. The effect here is again magnified for larger civs. Remember at the start of the game when we swapped into Slavery? We had two cities, probably around 3 population points total, pulling in something like 14 food, 2 production, and a couple of coins. A larger civ at this point in the game probably has 300 food, 150 production, 100 commerce or something like that. It's not a big deal to waste a handful of food and hammers, but the later on the more devastating anarchy can become (especially since anarchy turns increase based on how large you are.)
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Dec 15, 2017 19:25
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Borsche69 posted:So GAs are really only very powerful when your cities are very large and working a lot of tiles/lots of specialists. I think this is what's making me lean towards shrine here, but honestly either way it won't be wasteful.
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Dec 15, 2017 20:15
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GAs are fantastic since they give you 1-2 free turns, plus some yield increases as a side bonus.
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Dec 15, 2017 21:08
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  That's the summary of my 10 turns. Edirne is unhappy because I accidentally whipped them one too many times but other than that we're good to go. Confucianism spread to all our Cities which means The Kong Miao has now boosted our income considerably and let me build up a nice stockpile for when we want to research and pay for our troops at the same time. I've also built some roads right up to Shaka's borders to make things easier for whoever declares. http://www.mediafire.com/file/w5gzjc2c5clwt4f/CIV%204%20LP%20T120.CivBeyondSwordSave
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Dec 15, 2017 23:03
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Turns 120-129 WARNING: Lots of city micromanagement details and some bitching. No offense intended to anyone, trying to be informative here   We haven't swapped to Hereditary Rule yet for whatever reason, so I'm doing that. The happiness problem in Edirne will be a thing of the past once that's done.  We have a scout... chilling in our city as a garrison? Our scouting is anemic. I send this and the chairot loitering in the city into Cyrus's territory to reveal more of the map.  I hit up Cyrus for a tech trade. This is not an even trade of course, but it's close in beaker count, and I'm confident we can use this better than he can. Archers will make for cheap garrisons for Hereditary Rule happiness, and with Iron Working we can clear the jungle in the north part of our land.  Cyrus likes us quite a bit. He has a mini-stack near our border, but I'm not worried--2 swords and a chariot aren't really a threat to us at this point in the game.   Iron Working also reveals a source of iron in our territory. It's not on a great spot--a flatland desert--but this is like another plains mine for our production-focused city, so I'll take it.  While our Civ is in anarchy, it won't produce anything. We can still move our units though, and so I begin to position workers to try and address the clusterfuck that is our current tile management.  Our capital is doing fairly well. I'm tempted to build the Hanging Gardens here, but I don't think it's a good idea while war prepping for Shaka. However, it's working an unimproved plains tile  I work with swapping that to a cottage from Bursa. Edirne has no more happiness problems thanks to Hereditary Rule. It's doing all right, but the fact that it has so many improved tiles that it can't work due to low pop tells me that there's some serious Worker mismanagement going on, given how we have other cities working unimproved tiles.  Our production hub has, imo, been overwhipped. It has plenty of production, but not enough food to quickly regrow. I'll see what I can do about that. I put a turn into a cottage on that river, this was a mistake. I end up building a farm there to help out the food situation here, though we won't be able to really solve the issue until Civil Service.   This city's actually doing quite well. I don't really like working the spices, but it has a forest so it's still a 4-yield tile. Still, I 2-pop whip off that tile asap.   Some tile-swapping with Istanbul is called for here. If we're going to pack our cities tightly together, we should try to make use of that fact! I swap off a cottage onto a different, unworked cottage, so the capital can stop working that horrid 1F1P1C plains river tile and work a hamlet instead.  This city... this city. It's currently working two unimproved tiles and will grow onto a third next turn. It has a lot of production into a library that could fix this problem, but too much to double-whip it... ewwww. This library should've been 2-pop whipped. I'm going to start a courthouse and 2-pop whip it to overflow into the library. That should solve our unimproved tile problem until I can get some workers over here.  This is a new city and doing quite well. Yet again however, the presence of improved tiles that aren't being worked while other cities are working unimproved tiles points to mismanagement. This city won't grow very fast, but with some grassland farms we should be able to bring it up in food a bit, we'll shoot for a +5 food surplus while working the gems.  This city was founded, like, 20 turns ago, and been left to rot. There's a plains cottage but the corn is unimproved. 2-pop whipping the courthouse solved this city's problems in the short-term. I also built a cottage on the plains river spices. This is not a great solution, but if we're going to work that tile we might as well get some more value out of it. We still have two unimproved spices to hook up with Calendar, and we can always pave over the cottage later.  However, there is good news! With such a big gold surplus we can run 100% science for a long time, and Construction only takes 3 turns to complete. The turn before it finished, I whip a lot of things that would've only taken 1-2 more turns to complete to put the overflow into catapults.   Catapults are the first units that deal collateral damage, and collateral damage is key to Civ IV stack-based warfare. Basically, when a catapult hits a tile, it deals damage to every unit in that tile. Catapults often die in the process, and such catapults are referred to as "suicide catapults", which have the sole purpose of softening a concentration of enemy forces before hitting it with your other units. These will prove invaluable to cracking Shaka. They can also bombard city defenses to lower the defense value granted by culture and walls (though walls slow the rate at which catapults can bombard tremendously).  Several cities have quite a bit of production put into catapults here, because of my whipping   I get Sailing next, as we have a few cities that could benefit from Lighthouses, and it's on the path to Calendar, which we will need later.  Shaka asks for Open Borders. I turn him down, but perhaps a better move would've been to accept and use the opportunity to scout his lands with a chariot. My mistake!  Sailing will also let us build the Maoi Statues as previously mentioned. We may want to put this National Wonder in the city on the northmost tip of our peninsula eventually.  Our next big milestone is currency. In addition to more trade routes, this will let us build markets, which are essentially libraries for gold. Our Confucian Shrine is generating 13gpt at the moment, so a Market in Edirne will help boost that further (not to mention the gains while in 100% Gold). We should try to get Markets in our major commerce earners before our gold runs dry, so when we swap the commerce slider back to gold we benefit from them.  Our empire flourishes! I decide to go for Metal Casting for forges, but it's also possible to make a 1t detour for Monotheism and Organized Religion. Either way I'd like to get both of them so we can get some forges out with the Organized Religion discount if possible. Forges will add to our production and, since we have gems, provide some happiness as well. Konya is unhappy, but in 2 turns its whip penalty will wear off so whatever. Maybe adjust tiles to grow slower here, or whip some more.  6 catapults are ready to go and more are on the way. I leave it to my successors to decide the right time to strike. I've been chopping the forests near Ankara into catapults, since it seems to me that whipping a city like this overmuch is a bad idea.  I like to think my scouting of Cyrus's land is useful.  At the very least, we now have a lot of foreign trade routes with Cryus. These are worth about double the commerce of our domestic routes. Remember, you need to reveal a city on the map to get trade routes to it!  We're crushing the competition in GNP (commerce output--well, sorta, it also counts things like raw science/culture/etc I believe). Food we've dropped to 2nd, probably because of our city count. We'll probably soar ahead once we take Shaka's stuff. Production varies, we were #1 for a while but some tile-swapping has caused us to drop. Still, we're close to #1 in hammer count, so no worries here. Here's the save. Go nuts! Magil Zeal fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Dec 23, 2017 |
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Dec 16, 2017 05:31
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I would like an overview on trade routes, since I'm a scrub who likes to play on Settler and build all the wonders and win every time and I don't actually know how anything works in this game
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Dec 16, 2017 06:14
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biosterous posted:I would like an overview on trade routes, since I'm a scrub who likes to play on Settler and build all the wonders and win every time and I don't actually know how anything works in this game I'm not too sure of all the mechanics, so I checked the wiki. To summarize, basically, trade routes are automatically assigned throughout your empire each turn, with the most valuable ones going to larger cities. Trade routes always have a minimum value of 1 commerce, and only produce commerce, so the most valuable trade routes are easy to calculate. Trade route value is increased by a lot of factors, including buildings, but the most common ones are distance between the cities (more distant = more commerce), and foreign trade routes get an extended peace bonus with foreign civs that can make international routes extremely valuable. As of Beyond the Sword, trade routes to cities on different land masses are also doubled in value. To have a trade route between two cities, they must be connected in some way. The following factors can combine to connect two cities: a continuous road between the cities, or along a coastline or river (with Sailing). Astronomy is required for cities separated by ocean tiles to establish trade routes. For the most part trade routes are pretty hands-off and considered a secondary source of commerce, though it's possible to focus heavily on trade routes for commerce, this can be beneficial if you have the Great Lighthouse and lots of coastal cities and international trade routes (with the understanding that it will obsolete with Economics). With that said, establishing trade routes internally is important as it forms your trade network. Basically, a city can only make use of resources that are connected to your trade network in some way, and to trade resources with other Civs, your trade networks must be connected.
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Dec 16, 2017 06:54
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I think Edirne's problem regarding the lack of tiles it's working is due to the fact it has 42 turns of whip unhappiness. It's a holy city with a shrine it should be just slow growing with cottages and then windmills, not getting whipped into the ground to make...I have no idea. How does a city even GET 42 turns of whip unhappiness. What the...jesus.  I've just been staring at this in awe for the last 30 minutes. The city needs every flatland tile to be cottaged and then windmills on the hills and then you just DON'T TOUCH IT, like that's literally it. Chucat fucked around with this message at 10:25 on Dec 16, 2017 |
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Dec 16, 2017 10:13
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Chucat posted:I think Erdine's problem regarding the lack of tiles it's working is due to the fact it has 42 turns of whip unhappiness. It's a holy city with a shrine it should be just slow growing with cottages and then windmills, not getting whipped into the ground to make...I have no idea. I mean, it's a city with corn and two flood plains farms. It's not exactly going to be "slow-growing" 
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Dec 16, 2017 10:27
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quote:
when you have a cluster of calendar resources like these riverside spices one nice trick is to just cottage or farm most of them early on, giving you a +1 commerce (or food, for sugar!) tile to grow on. farms can be trivially replaced later, if you need extras of the resource for trading. careful with cottages though, since replacing a village or town later represents a fair chunk of lost commerce. once grown, a town is a fantastic improvement that you won't need to replace with a plantation for any reason other than resource access. Prav fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Dec 16, 2017 |
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Dec 16, 2017 11:48
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Prav posted:when you have a cluster of calendar resources like these riverside spices one nice trick is to just cottage or farm most of them early on, giving you a +1 commerce (or food, for sugar!) tile to grow on. farms can be trivially replaced later, if you need extras of the resource for trading. careful with cottages though, since replacing a village or town later represents a fair chunk of lost commerce. I did end up cottaging one of the spices, but I didn't want to cut down the forest on the grassland spice tile. We can plantation that later and keep the forest for a permanent +1 hammer. Probably would've done the same for the other plains river spice but didn't have worker labor at the time, and that city was doing all right working other tiles anyway. Once we get those spices hooked up, make sure the player remembers to cancel gems for spices with Cyrus so we can trade him for something else, like incense.
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Dec 16, 2017 12:09
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plantations overwrite forests in IV. it's camps (deer/fur/ivory) that can be built without harvesting it.
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Dec 16, 2017 12:11
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Right, I've been taking a look at our techs and so on, we have a Great Person coming out in 8 turns or so, so I was thinking something like: Calendar (for the Spices) --> Civil Service --> Monotheism, then Golden Age into Bureaucracy, Caste and Organized Religion while researching Metal Casting and Machinery, then start Workshopping + Windmilling. As for our cities... Bursa CAN be a GPP farm, but we'd be saccing a couple of cottages to get the Corn irrigated, doing that would let us run 4 Specialists easily, however, if we're gonna go ham on Farming that city, then how about making it our Draft city?
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Dec 16, 2017 12:19
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Took the turns, I had the really, really cool bug where print screen only made one layer of the game show up, so well...nothing showed up. Shaka wardecced us again on T140, he was plotting a few turns before so I spent the time getting our hilly desert border roaded up, and a few farms turned into cottages, just beat back his lovely stack and then go kill him. I also signed open borders with him on T130 so we could actually see what we'd be attacking. We also have Calendar, Civil Service and are getting Metal Casting. There's a great Scientist in Istanbul, either use him on an Academy or Golden Age. I redid the deal with Cyrus so we're getting Incense and Deers for Gems. That's most of the important stuff. https://chucat.s-ul.eu/FAkw2O2R
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Dec 16, 2017 15:24
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So to make up for that, I'm gonna go over some other features. Once again, this is Istanbul, it looks pretty different to how it was on turn 1, most of the stuff I said that was going to get filled out is now...filled out. Trade Routes We now have trade routes, in this case, 2 with Persian cities. How trade routes work are as follows. There's two parts to a trade route that are important, the AMOUNT of trade routes a city has, and the VALUE of the trade routes a city has, the amount is easier to explain so I'll deal with that first. A city has a base capacity of one trade route at the start of the game, this means it is able to trade with another city (in actual game mechanics, it just means you get gold), the amount of routes you get can be increased in the following ways. - Researching the technology Currency gives you an additional trade route. - Researching the technology Corporation gives you an additional trade route. - Building the Wonder The Great Lighthouse gives EVERY coastal city TWO additional trade routes. - Running the Civic Free Market gives every city an additional trade route. - Having a Castle in your city gives you an additional trade route. - Having a Cothon (Carthage's unique building) gives you an additional trade route. - Having an airport in your city gives you an additional trade route. - Running the UN resolution Single Currency gives every city in the entire game an additional trade route. so generally you'll be on around 2-4 trade routes for most of the game. As a little digression, cities in your own civ can trade with multiple cities in your civ, so for example, every city bar Ankara could trade with Ankara IF Ankara's trade route was worth more for some reason, but you can only have one trade route open with a city not in your Civ, this'll be important in a moment. So the value of trade routes has a big longass formula to go with it, but I'll give you the short version: Your domestic trade routes give, by default, one gold per turn, which isn't great. If you have a city on another continent OR on an island, the trade route gets upgraded to two gold per turn, and since domestic routes are uncapped, this basically makes your trade route income go from X to X*2 as soon as you found a single city on a landmass that isn't your starting one. Foreign cities give 2 gold generally, bigger foreign cities give more, being at peace with a foreign civ slowly gives you more gold, being at peace with a foreign civ on another continent will give you even more gold. Basically the cliffnotes versions of this are: - Don't get into wars often if you care about trade routes. - Found X island cities, where X is the number of trade routes you have. - Establish open borders with other Civs, both for trading and getting to snoop around their stuff. - If you're not on a...highlands/great plains map and you have a few coastal cities, build the Great Lighthouse. Resources This is way shorter, but in the top right, note how the columns are now filled in, these are the resources we have, and there's three different types. There's strategic resources, that allow you to build units, health resources, which give your cities more health, and luxuries, which give your cities happiness. Some resources can be more than one thing, for example Ivory is both a luxury and a strategic resource. Most resources generally give you the bonus when you hook them up, and then said bonus is (generally) doubled when you build an accompanying building in your city, so for example Gold, Silver and Gems give you one happiness, but building a Forge causes them to give an additional happiness. Great People This was touched on, but not properly, note how the yellow bar is now filling up, this is because we're now generating Great Person Points. These are generated in two main ways, through specialists and through wonders. As I mentioned before, a specialist is a citizen assigned to a role instead of a tile, in this case we have two scientist specialists. Each of them generates 3 GPP of the Scientist type, giving us 6 Scientist GPP. However, this city ALSO has a wonder, the Oracle, which gives 2 GPP of the Prophet type, so, in total this, city is generating 8 GPP per turn, at a 6:2 ratio of Scientist to Prophet, which means in a vacuum, once the bar fills up, we have a 75% chance of getting a Great Scientist and a 25% chance of getting a Great Prophet. The bar fills up once it hits 100 * X, where X is the number of the great person you'll generate. Anyway, you're able to assign specialists by constructing certain buildings, here's the short version Spy: Courthouse, Jail, Intelligence Agency, Security Bureau Engineer: Forge, Factory, Industrial Park Merchant: Market, Grocer Scientist: Library, Observatory, Laboratory Artist: Theater, Broadcast Tower Priest: Temple, Cathedral Some wonders also give FREE specialists, the Great Library gives 2 Scientists, the Temple of Artemis gives a free Priest and so on. Any specialist that's free does not consume food. Once the bar fills up, the game rolls a dice on a table and you get the Great Person it rolls, which spawns in the city that filled up the bar. Great People have a movement of 2 and a strength of 0, which means they can't fight, but they're very, very useful. Every Great Person has a list of actions, once they use one, it sacrifices the Great Person, so pick carefully Universal List: Merge into city: This basically makes the Great Person a "Super Specialist", they give more to the city than a normal specialist. The most interesting of these by far is the Great Merchant, which is one of the few ways to give a city extra food (without tile improvements), only Khmer Barays are able to do this before Supermarkets. Trigger Golden Age: This requires X different types of great people, where X is the number of the Golden Age you want to trigger (so your first requires one, second requires 2 etc). This then triggers a Golden Age for 8 turns (or 12 if you have a certain wonder), which increases the gold and hammer yield of every tile you own by 1, it also increases your GPP rate and allows you to swap Civics without entering Anarchy. It's basically the best part of a bunch of different traits and buildings stapled together. You can also trigger a golden age by building the Taj Mahal. Research technology (except for Great Spy): This either researches or puts a ton of beakers towards a technology that you can research. Each Great Person has a massive preference list of technologies that they'll work their way down until they can find the first one that you can research, and then it goes towards this. Then there's a specific action for each type of Great Person Great Spies get 2, because they can't research techs. they can either Infiltrate an enemy Civ, giving you 3000 Espionage points towards that Civ, or they can build Scotland Yard, which gives the city you build it in +50% Espionage. Great Engineers can just finish a structure or put an inordinate amount of hammers into it, this includes Wonders. Great Merchants can conduct a trade mission to another city, this includes foreign cities, and it generates a massive lump sum of money, it's generally worked out by distance from your capital and the size of the city. Great Scientists can build an Academy, which gives a city +50% Science. Great Artists can just drop several thousand culture in a city, it's called a Culture Bomb and it can just totally destroy an enemy's borders if it consists of new cities. Great Priests can build a Shrine in a holy city, which gives 1 gold for every city that has that shrine's religion, increases the spread of the religion, and lets you assign Priests. There's also Great Generals but I'll talk about those when they come up.
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Dec 16, 2017 16:47
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Scotland Yard gives 100% espionage, not 50%
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Dec 16, 2017 18:29
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Prav posted:plantations overwrite forests in IV. it's camps (deer/fur/ivory) that can be built without harvesting it. Hm, thanks for the heads-up. It's still all right to leave the forest there because it gives an extra hammer for now, overwriting it with a farm or cottage wouldn't really be much of an improvement, but that's good to know for the future. Or if I needed a chop at some point... think it's a plantation now though! Edit: On Great People, something interesting is that if I recall right using a Great Artist "Creat Great Work"/Culture Bomb immediately pops a city out of resistance--the period of "produces nothing and has no borders" that happens after conquering a city (or having a city revolt due to culture conflict). Since it also explodes the borders, it can be used offensively during war to get a conquered city to work immediately while also pushing your borders to let you use roads and stuff. Magil Zeal fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Dec 16, 2017 |
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Dec 16, 2017 18:43
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Lots of warfare in this turnset. Shaka came at me with 2 bigs stacks and I wiped them both out. Used our catapults to soften 'em and then clean them up with the axes. We only lose a handful of cats while I believe Shaka lost close to 20 units in the span of 10 turns. We also got 2 great generals from this:   As far as micro goes, I hire scientists and start planting cottages on basically every grassland tile that'll take them. I do want to discuss this:  A farmed plains river tile is a 2F1H1C tile which is not a very good tile yield. It's food neutral and is only providing 1 hammer and 1 coin. At least if this was a cottage it could be 1F1H2C with the potential for more coins down the line. Here's a good post about how to estimate the value of a tile so you know what's 'worth' working: quote:ok, this is gonna be a long post, but if you're willing to watch hours of loving Sulla videos, maybe you'll wanna read this. a different guy from RB (realms beyond), named sevenspirits, who's one of the best players ever (better than me, even!) came up with this system. As far as the macro game go, I aim us towards Guilds. We're not going to be able to just out tech everyone since our land simply is not big enough. In addition, Shaka will just continue to declare war on us. Thankfully, our tech rate is actually far above our neighbors thanks to the high number of scientists we're working, and the gem mines. Once we get to Guilds, we should whip together a group of like 10-15 knights and just break down Shaka. http://www.mediafire.com/file/qguscmwowqamc3h/CIV_4_LP_T150.CivBeyondSwordSave
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Dec 17, 2017 22:14
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| # ? May 6, 2024 16:05 |
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You generally want 6-8 surplus food for a city to grow fairly fast. More is better but there's a drop off, and you get the best RoI in this range.  The numbers change when you have granaries up but this shows how many turns it will take for a city of size x and a food surplus of size y to grow from size x to size x+1, so you can see how not a lot changes when you have a food surplus of 8 vs a surplus of 9. I'd say a rule of thumb on farming is: 1. Farm until you get a surplus of 6-8 for fast growth. 2. Farm such that you can actually work all the tiles in your fat cross. (Important for cities with lots of hills. You want enough food to actually be able work all those hills!) 3. Farm to support more specialists.
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Dec 17, 2017 22:14
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