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etalian posted:You could basically attempt design a wasteful and inefficient system. It would still be better than out current For Profit healthcare system. Welcome to Amerika, Kafka was an optimist
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Jun 2, 2018 19:03
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Goon Danton posted:Let me tell you about Balance Billing. When you go to a doctor in the US, the doctor's office and your insurance company negotiate over the price. Obviously the insurance company wants this price to be as low as possible, and the doctor wants it as high as possible. But the insurance company has more power in the situation, so likely the price will end up lower than your doctor wanted. But don't worry! Thanks to balance billing, the doctor's office can bill you directly for whatever they feel they were cheated out of! Which means when you pay your insurance premiums, you're paying a company to convince the doctor to bill you for as much as possible! it’s super fun to find out about this after you visit the ER.
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Jun 2, 2018 19:44
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it's great the stuff you can get when your govt doesn't blow your tax dollars on bombs and submarines
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Jun 2, 2018 23:46
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Slugnoid posted:it's great the stuff you can get when your govt doesn't blow your tax dollars on bombs and submarines i'd argue that putting people to work doing challenging work like building submarines is better than having them sit on the couch all day and receiving a paycheck anyway.
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Jun 2, 2018 23:50
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qkkl posted:i'd argue that putting people to work doing challenging work like building submarines is better than having them sit on the couch all day and receiving a paycheck anyway. we arent even really keeping the shipyards employed, though, they lay off tons of employees too. the only people making out on the inflated military budget are the general staff (when they retire and become a consultant or lobbyist for General Dynamics or someone) and the defense contractor's board/executives
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Jun 2, 2018 23:58
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lol its not like its a binary choice between build armaments or go homeless, there are other industries
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Jun 3, 2018 00:00
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not in America lol
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Jun 3, 2018 00:03
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Slugnoid posted:it's great the stuff you can get when your govt doesn't blow your tax dollars on bombs and submarines ...but how are we gonna pay for ridiculous stuff like universal health care and college tuition?!?!
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Jun 3, 2018 00:03
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Slugnoid posted:it's great the stuff you can get when your govt doesn't blow your tax dollars on bombs and submarines lol why is the ussr on the bottom of this graph
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Jun 3, 2018 00:12
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Slugnoid posted:it's great the stuff you can get when your govt doesn't blow your tax dollars on bombs and submarines I like the empty bar for the defunct USSR at the end there.
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Jun 3, 2018 00:13
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you laugh but if that bar ever started increasing you'd probably want to know about it
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Jun 3, 2018 00:24
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Slugnoid posted:it's great the stuff you can get when your govt doesn't blow your tax dollars on bombs and submarines how many countries rely on the USA's military? I wonder whether these other countries' budgets would start going up if the USA slashed their military budget into half.
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Jun 3, 2018 00:49
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SKULL.GIF posted:how many countries rely on the USA's military? I wonder whether these other countries' budgets would start going up if the USA slashed their military budget into half. Rely on for what? to repel foreign invaders? Like Ukraine, except not really, and extremely vaguely south korea? I think that would depend a lot on circumstance that caused the US to slash their military budget in half. In almost all cases everyone could breathe a sigh of relief that maybe the crazy people with the military capable of destroying the world have come to some degree of sense. I think its reasonable to expect a slash in US military funding causes a decrease across the board.
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Jun 3, 2018 01:14
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They need to keep 50,000 troops in Germany so they (NATO) can run training exercises in Estonia. Also, that $611 billion is now $700 billion. 
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Jun 3, 2018 02:51
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Ukraine wasn’t even in NATO. bad deal. sad!
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Jun 3, 2018 02:57
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WaryWarren posted:They need to keep 50,000 troops in Germany so they (NATO) can run training exercises in Estonia. The military got more many than they wanted for the Trump budget. For example is was something like 8 billion for the troubled F-35 program but it ended up getting funded at 13 billion.
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Jun 3, 2018 02:58
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Jose posted:british farmers voted heavily for brexit and the day after the vote realised what they'd done lol american farmers would still vote trump again
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Jun 3, 2018 03:32
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SKULL.GIF posted:how many countries rely on the USA's military? I wonder whether these other countries' budgets would start going up if the USA slashed their military budget into half. The only country that would go into true panic mode would be Israel
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Jun 3, 2018 03:38
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qkkl posted:i'd argue that putting people to work doing challenging work like building submarines is better than having them sit on the couch all day and receiving a paycheck anyway. What if...and stick with me here...what if instead of building submarines we built things that are useful
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Jun 3, 2018 04:03
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Slugnoid posted:it's great the stuff you can get when your govt doesn't blow your tax dollars on bombs and submarines
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Jun 3, 2018 06:29
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qkkl posted:i'd argue that putting people to work doing challenging work like building submarines is better than having them sit on the couch all day and receiving a paycheck anyway. "challenging work" went out the window when automation and productivity increases kicked in you could make the argument for a jobs program that involved upgrading infrastructure and government expansion of green energy but you immediately went to war machines for killing poor brown people halfway around the world 
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Jun 3, 2018 06:44
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Goon Danton posted:Which means when you pay your insurance premiums, you're paying a company to convince the doctor to bill you for as much as possible!
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Jun 3, 2018 07:36
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The US spends more public money on healthcare per capita than nearly every country with universal healthcare. Bombs and submarines have got nothing to do with it. It means that a political will only exists to expand the MIC while there's none to fix healthcare.
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Jun 3, 2018 11:56
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:It means that a political will only exists to expand the MIC while there's none to fix healthcare.
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Jun 3, 2018 12:52
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Sure, but they're not blowing the money on bombs and submarines - just extremely expensive medicine/care. They really are blowing the money though, literally and not just figuratively. Military spending has no economic value because the only time you're going to use military equipment is to destroy something or it gets destroyed. Why pay a million dollars for a tomahawk cruise missile when you could have just flushed it all down the toilet?
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Jun 3, 2018 12:56
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the toilet doesnt kick back millions of dollars to your re-election campaign
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Jun 3, 2018 13:04
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"Yes hello i am america man i broke arm. i have subscription for health" "That a thousand dollars or... just keep broken" - not a real country, a joke instead
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Jun 3, 2018 13:28
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:They really are blowing the money though, literally and not just figuratively. Military spending has no economic value because the only time you're going to use military equipment is to destroy something or it gets destroyed. Why pay a million dollars for a tomahawk cruise missile when you could have just flushed it all down the toilet?
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Jun 3, 2018 13:29
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:It means that a political will only exists to expand the MIC while there's none to fix healthcare. MICI is basically a job program everyone likes politically since they can play the support the troops card. Even though most of the money ends up being funneled to the big ten defense contractors not programs without lobbying like the VA.
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Jun 3, 2018 13:31
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It owns how much money the us spends on its military and how little actually goes to the people working in it or have worked for it
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Jun 3, 2018 13:37
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Slugnoid posted:it's great the stuff you can get when your govt doesn't blow your tax dollars on bombs and submarines I remember going to a job fair in college and all the branches of the armed forces were there with booths. They were bragging about offering free healthcare and free tuition if you signed up. I wonder how many people wouldn't sign up if those things became available regardless. Jose posted:It owns how much money the us spends on its military and how little actually goes to the people working in it or have worked for it "We need to cut military spending." "You hate the troops! They fight for your freedoms. Feel free to stand in front of them, etc." *VA gets privatized*
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Jun 3, 2018 13:53
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Sure, but the money isn't coming out of healthcare. America could be blowing up exactly as many people as they do now and still have universal healthcare. The money they're blowing up might help fill out some potholes though. no dude. either the money spent on the military doesn’t make any difference or it does. by saying it could be used to fill potholes, you’re acknowledging that if’s a misdirection of resources which could also be spent on healthcare.
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Jun 3, 2018 14:52
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modern political economy is functionally no different from a command economy, it’s just that instead of directing the economy by decree you bait it into doing what you want by promising money made from thin air. you’ve just obfuscated the command function with market incentives. either way, you’re wasting labor, energy, and resources that could be spent on something of greater social utility like public healthcare.
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Jun 3, 2018 15:01
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:no dude. either the money spent on the military doesn’t make any difference or it does. by saying it could be used to fill potholes, you’re acknowledging that if’s a misdirection of resources which could also be spent on healthcare. hes just saying that people could be paying a slightly higher income tax or something instead of 25% of their paycheck on healthcare and still pay for it all. you're also right tho. imagine how epic things would be if we took just one stupidly overbudgeted (and yet, underdelivering and overtime) military project and spent it on a jobs program to fix roads or replant forests or w.e.
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Jun 3, 2018 16:18
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if the government spent exactly as much as they do now, on healthcare, in a sane way, we would have the best funded public healthcare system in the world with absolutely no change to what we pay in taxes. tho we would all save thousands from the insurance that we would no longer require instead we pay out the rear end for a company to deny coverage and diabetics can't even afford insulin because it keeps doubling in price for no reason
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Jun 3, 2018 16:23
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:no dude. either the money spent on the military doesn’t make any difference or it does. by saying it could be used to fill potholes, you’re acknowledging that if’s a misdirection of resources which could also be spent on healthcare. Larry Parrish posted:hes just saying that people could be paying a slightly higher income tax or something instead of 25% of their paycheck on healthcare and still pay for it all. you're also right tho. imagine how epic things would be if we took just one stupidly overbudgeted (and yet, underdelivering and overtime) military project and spent it on a jobs program to fix roads or replant forests or w.e.
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Jun 3, 2018 16:26
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A Buttery Pastry posted:It could, but given that the entire US healthcare system is set up to misdirect resources too, there's no reason to believe it'd make anywhere the impact it should. Hell, maybe it'd just end up letting everyone involved inflate their prices to match the increased money supply, strengthening the position of the people keeping the US locked in such a terrible system while doing very little to alleviate the issue. This is a dumb handwaving that assumes we can only do something as stupid as the ACA, which just handed out money to private insurers so they would cover poor people.
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Jun 3, 2018 16:46
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:This is a dumb handwaving that assumes we can only do something as stupid as the ACA, which just handed out money to private insurers so they would cover poor people. Admittedly though, it would probably help the health outcomes of Middle Easterners substantially.
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Jun 3, 2018 17:04
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https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1003349619764596736
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Jun 3, 2018 20:58
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:It means that a political will only exists to expand the MIC while there's none to fix healthcare. the problem with american healthcare isn't a lack of money it's a institutional drive in government to filter everything through private middlemen to ensure that billionaires get to take a cut of every dollar spent. universal healthcare would literally be cheaper than what we have now. the for-profit system introduces a shitton of inefficient costs and extra spending Pener Kropoopkin posted:They really are blowing the money though, literally and not just figuratively. Military spending has no economic value because the only time you're going to use military equipment is to destroy something or it gets destroyed. Why pay a million dollars for a tomahawk cruise missile when you could have just flushed it all down the toilet? because after that tomahawk missile blows up a wedding, you can pay another million dollars to Halliburton to rebuild the wedding venue
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Jun 3, 2018 21:16
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