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I think "17 Minutes" demonstrates the weakness of how Time Travel works in the show. We know that the future is malleable to some degree and that changes propagate into the future. (See the Faction and Shelter collapse) Mac and his team was sent to ensure the survival of important components to the future because the Faction might mess around with it. Each new piece of information sent to the past is intended to cause changes. The moment the Director sent the details of retrieving the material from the Lake, the Director should know that the mission ends in Failure. There's no reason to wait until 17 minutes beforehand to try and correct it. I mean that's unless another of the Director's mission resulted in the change of Mac's team getting mowed down, but I don't see it.
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Dec 28, 2017 23:39
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xerxus posted:I think "17 Minutes" demonstrates the weakness of how Time Travel works in the show. I say it's easier to just take their hand-wavey and go with it. Frankly it's better Time Travel then poo poo like Dr Who and the "Every time I break the rules we just pretend I knew something you didn't."
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Dec 29, 2017 01:30
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Regarding all that... The director can only observe what happened via electronic media, thus this checking their GoPro bullshit. Trial and error.
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Dec 29, 2017 01:36
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Fuuuuuuck Original Marcy's issues were made by 001  whaaaaat
Gridlocked fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Dec 29, 2017 |
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Dec 29, 2017 03:54
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Fuuuuuuuck realizing how the director was talking to 0027 and the end of the trial 17 mins was loving excellent
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Dec 29, 2017 04:55
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Gridlocked posted:Annnd because I'm a binge watching loser: Hell yeah it is. It was pretty explicit that you don’t get do-overs, you can only send info back to after the last info packet, but that the future is also malleable. In my mind this episode just called attention to that discrepancy/paradox. So apparently you can “try” multiple times, but you need to do multiple overwrites which will destroy the host, but the Director can also capitalize on any changes that happen. Changes like the brother getting knocked out and thus being a new candidate. We basically saw things from the Director’s perspective. Narratively, it was amazing seeing multiple travelers trying to save the team, and then the gut punch of the hosts’ lives before then. All the people that died... it really humanized the hosts for me and made them more than disposable fodder, people who often get overlooked because of the Mission and because they die anyway. And having it be for tech-crucial materials let it be about saving the team without making them the actual focus for using all those resources. God I love this show.
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Dec 29, 2017 05:30
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as gently caress
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I really expected not to be into this show when I randomly watched the first episode, but it impressed me a lot. Glad to hear season 2 isn't dropping the ball.
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Dec 29, 2017 05:37
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Raged posted:Fuuuuuuuck realizing how the director was talking to 0027 and the end of the trial I was surprised how the director seemed capable of understanding and communicating emotion. The director apologized to Grace for putting her thru that and that it was sorry she couldn't come back. Essentially I just adore Grace as a character. In the episode where they're working on fixing the pandemic the faction starts, Jenny tells everyone that the virus was engineered to preserve 2/3rds of the population. In the background you can see that Grace is horrified at the idea while also nodding her head, acknowledging that the plan has some merit to it. Then we see her in the trial run the gauntlet of being the normal cocky narcissist she is, a sad dejected person whose brilliant work is totally unappreciated, to outright mourning when she's actually talking to the director. But at least she got to experience 21st century French cuisine  DarkHorse posted:Hell yeah it is. Initially this episode bothered me. In the S1 episode where Trevor tries to save Grace he explicitly says they can only go as far back as the most recent traveler. Presumably the director sees the changes in the timeline instantly upon sending someone back. Assuming that the director can't send a traveler back to the EXACT same point as the previous traveler, the clock has to tick forward one second or whatever. From our standpoint we see each attempt play out. But from the director's standpoint, the sequence of events should be that 5001 lands in the 21st, fails. The director knows this, sends 5002 one second after and overwriting 5001. Essentially 9 separate consciousnesses were overwritten in a matter of seconds until attempt #9 finally succeeds. Now look at it from the standpoint of the traveler volunteers. 5001 arrives only to experience the world's worst migraine as does 5002 and so on. When you really ponder it this show does some really loving disturbing poo poo.
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Dec 29, 2017 05:54
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i don't really remember a lot from season 1 but I'm watching season 2 now and definitely remember how much I hated David: the big bearded bitch-boy. i wish someone would fry his loving brain already
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Dec 29, 2017 06:40
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Dec 29, 2017 06:50
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Seriously. Grace is great but David is the best character. Easily the most self-aware of all of them, besides maybe Trevor/0115 “All day I felt like I was a minor character in a movie that ends badly”
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Dec 29, 2017 07:01
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I like Enrico Colantoni in pretty much everything he does. No one plays a bad guy like him, but I just feel like 0001 is missing something to make him a truly great villain. Maybe him playing Elias in Person of Intrest spoiled me. I'm about to watch the season 2 finale so maybe that will change. If you haven't binged the poo poo out of POI you really need to. If you like Travellers you will grow to love the poo poo out of it. If you haven't watched POI and are planning on watching it don't watch this video you won't get 1/1000th of the emotion this scene represents. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6FcO25ll8U gently caress I'm gonna have to watch The Devil's Share again. edit: Still the best use of Johnny Cash's Hurt ever Raged fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Dec 29, 2017 |
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Dec 29, 2017 12:14
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XboxPants posted:Guys I want you to know that Ray Green is the best and only has your best interests at heart. I get excited any time Ian Tracey is in a show. Even if his part in this is small, there's just something special about the characters he plays. Although I've only seen him in sci-fi.
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Dec 29, 2017 14:14
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Raged posted:I like Enrico Colantoni in pretty much everything he does. No one plays a bad guy like him, True but nobody plays the best dad ever like him either. I miss Keith Mars.
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Dec 29, 2017 17:21
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I really liked season 1 of Travelers when I saw it on Netflix last year, and season 2 is no different. I really, really like this show. I hope we get to see more of Simon. I also thought that the machine he was building was going to be used to shoot their consciousness back into the future, not too far off it. I still don't like that important people get sent to the 21st, seemingly, willy-nilly. Sending some low-traveler-number skilled programmers back to the 21st just to carry out a trial, really? Trevor is the best
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Dec 29, 2017 17:30
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Valeyard posted:I really liked season 1 of Travelers when I saw it on Netflix last year, and season 2 is no different. I really, really like this show. Agreed, on all points Simon and otherwise. I kept wondering why low numbers kept showing up. Maybe they’re bailing on the future? Measly Twerp posted:I get excited any time Ian Tracey is in a show. Even if his part in this is small, there's just something special about the characters he plays. Although I've only seen him in sci-fi. Season finale spoiler: I loved when Ray Green wakes up in the room with the loved ones and is “oh poo poo, not again” and ask David how much he owes his bookie, and how he’s amused by Phillip’s confession and thanks him for being straight with him from the start. I wouldn’t be surprised if he helps the other loved ones come around on the travelers.
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Dec 29, 2017 17:40
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DarkHorse posted:Agreed, on all points Simon and otherwise. I kept wondering why low numbers kept showing up. Maybe they’re bailing on the future? The thing is that the nature of what they created kind of makes them obsolete. Why do you need high level programmers lying around in the future? They made a transdimensional AI system that operates orders of magnitude beyond what they are capable of. They might need engineers to keep the Director running, maybe some people to work on other projects the future might have, but by and large they hardest part of their job in the future is over. That's in general. In specific it's all related to Faction tomfoolery. Grace came back to save the Director, those others were sent back because Grace and those people were the only ones that could have brought the Director offline for the Faction in the first place, so the Director got rid of all of them to flush out the traitor.
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Dec 29, 2017 17:45
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17 minutes: I guess the director must be doing kooky quantum stuff, since the failure state of this episode was that the director is never invented. So it couldn't look back from a fail state futrue and send a corrective traveler, right? It has to see the events that lead to it not being created, from a world where it exists. I dunno?
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Dec 29, 2017 17:49
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Can somebody explain the finale to me? I don't get the Simon/0001/psychologist thing?
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Dec 29, 2017 22:51
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D-Pad posted:Can somebody explain the finale to me? I don't get the Simon/0001/psychologist thing? 0001 managed to transfer his consciousness to the psychologist using 0004’s machine I think, leaving his original body as an empty shell (no reaction to the fly). When one of his deaf guards moved his body to the pc and pressed a key, he transmitted his face for the Director to see and was immediately overwritten. The Director wouldn’t know he was an empty shell and so doesn’t know 0001 is still out there.
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Dec 29, 2017 23:07
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D-Pad posted:Can somebody explain the finale to me? I don't get the Simon/0001/psychologist thing? Check my big redacted block of sperg right after the OP for my take on what happened. latinotwink1997 posted:0001 managed to transfer his consciousness to the psychologist using 0004’s machine I think, leaving his original body as an empty shell (no reaction to the fly). When one of his deaf guards moved his body to the pc and pressed a key, he transmitted his face for the Director to see and was immediately overwritten. The Director wouldn’t know he was an empty shell and so doesn’t know 0001 is still out there. That and Trevor describing his first transfer as they developed the tech.
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Dec 29, 2017 23:39
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In regards to spoiler tags, how long should we go with that until we just discuss it openly? Another week?
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Dec 29, 2017 23:43
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latinotwink1997 posted:0001 managed to transfer his consciousness to the psychologist using 0004’s machine I think, leaving his original body as an empty shell (no reaction to the fly). When one of his deaf guards moved his body to the pc and pressed a key, he transmitted his face for the Director to see and was immediately overwritten. The Director wouldn’t know he was an empty shell and so doesn’t know 0001 is still out there. The Director in theory should know since the video in the future should just be a lifeless body laying there for hours. Or I guess it could have been a really short preprogrammed recording session.
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Dec 30, 2017 01:01
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The day it aired already passed so, you know, go buck wild.
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Dec 30, 2017 01:09
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Yeah I mean it's even on Netflix now.
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Dec 30, 2017 01:15
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Ok, updated the OP. Takes some serious loving balls to not only build 9/11 into the narrative but to actually show what they did.
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Dec 30, 2017 01:28
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Talking about 9/11, though the travelers prevent lots of future altering events, they do nothing about 9/11. I guess before 9/11 people did not selfie themselves enough for the Director to generate a timeline database of events.
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Dec 30, 2017 01:48
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HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE posted:Ok, updated the OP. Definitely wasn't how I expected them to start season 2. OP ain't wrong about Vincent either, holy poo poo.
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Dec 30, 2017 01:49
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isme posted:Talking about 9/11, though the travelers prevent lots of future altering events, they do nothing about 9/11. I guess before 9/11 people did not selfie themselves enough for the Director to generate a timeline database of events. 9/11 was before facebook, myspace, camera phones, smart phones. It makes sense that they'd have very limited data to work with until the next 5 years or so. Google didn't even really become a thing until a few years after that. If you used the word selfie in 2001, nobody would have any idea what you meant. HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Dec 30, 2017 |
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Dec 30, 2017 02:09
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Regarding Trevor’s discussion of consciousness transfer Do we assume that the process of going back in time inevitable “kills” the original future person who becomes the traveler? Or is there the chance that the travelers are still living in the future, and only duplicated a version of themselves into the past?
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Dec 30, 2017 09:19
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Barlow posted:Regarding Trevor’s discussion of consciousness transfer They seem to imply it's a one way trip, wherever you go. Vincent/001's body was dead after his transfer, for example.It's just that Trevor/0115 was used for repeated, long term effects testing and was transferred multiple times from future body to future body so they could monitor it.
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Dec 30, 2017 10:52
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Yeah ok, the show's quantum entanglement woo explanation for how time travel works is dumb as hell. So much wasted potential. The entire S1 I was waiting for the reveal that Travelers are not 'real people', but just brainstates shot into people in the past, overwriting their personality. Future person goes into a fancy MRI, gets scanned, and walks away, no one actually 'travels' anywhere, the Director just shoots those brain templates at the past. It makes sense with what happened to Marcy, makes sense with how the child messengers work and has the potential for some great existential horror drama. Makes sense with why the Director can just get rid of super important technicians. That stupid quantum frame also makes sense. How about this, Travellers writers, here's a free plot twist for S3 of this alternative, better show: what if at some point it's revealed that the Director actually reuses those brain templates when sending teams? What if there were multiple of the same Traveller, in different bodies, but they didn't know? What if they met? What if some joined the Faction, and some stay loyal? But no, it's actually time travelling magical consciousness pixies. Barf. That moment at Grace's trial with the skype to the future was also kinda dumb and ultimately pointless. Also, S1 was better.
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Dec 30, 2017 11:13
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grate deceiver posted:skype to the future MARTY YOU HAVE TO SNAPCHAT YOUR PARENTS OR THEY'LL NEVWR GET MARRIED.
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Dec 30, 2017 16:19
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grate deceiver posted:
I don’t disagree that sending a consciousness snapshot might make more sense, but making it an actual conscious person and a one-way one-time trip ups the stakes and increases narrative tension. With Marcy especially there’s weirdness about multiple writes and losing bits. Ultimately though I’m willing to accept the quantum woo - maybe consciousness is “quantum” and there’s no way to duplicate it. As for future Skype I think those were hospice patients in the present the Director was using. They were Messages that killed the host, but they were about to die anyway so the Director was able to justify it I guess. It also made it clear that the Director at least appears like it has emotions and appears to feel regret and gratitude, which is a pretty big reveal. It definitely altered my opinion of the Director for the better and helped explain the Travelers’ confidence and trust in them.
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Dec 30, 2017 17:37
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DarkHorse posted:
This is how I took it as well. All the drawings or hallucinations of people in the future have their heads shaved, the dying people the director used all had hair. Giving the director some form of emotion was really cool. It’s less that humanity created AI than it is they created something of a demigod. Now if the faction manages to create their own AI which doesn’t have those traits, that could make for some drat good Travelers episodes. Rhyno posted:MARTY YOU HAVE TO SNAPCHAT YOUR PARENTS OR THEY'LL NEVWR GET MARRIED. Thanks bucko you owe me a new keyboard  Zebulon posted:They seem to imply it's a one way trip, wherever you go. Vincent/001's body was dead after his transfer, for example.It's just that Trevor/0115 was used for repeated, long term effects testing and was transferred multiple times from future body to future body so they could monitor it. I figured it was more like being brain dead. Still breathing, heart still beating, but nobody home. HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Dec 30, 2017 |
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Dec 30, 2017 17:50
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HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE posted:I figured it was more like being brain dead. Still breathing, heart still beating, but nobody home. Yeah, otherwise there's no way another traveler could have taken Vincent Ingram's body right away.
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Dec 30, 2017 18:50
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DarkHorse posted:I don’t disagree that sending a consciousness snapshot might make more sense, but making it an actual conscious person and a one-way one-time trip ups the stakes and increases narrative tension. I get why they do this, but it's a safe and boring choice. And if you want to make safe and boring tv, maybe don't choose time travel as your central gimmick. S2 at some point turned into an action drama about secret societies fighting about whatever, that might as well not have any time travel or sci-fi in it. Secret agents going on missions, shooting guns and sometimes using blinking gadgets. The overarching plot about T 0001 is kinda meh. If future-Skype was hospice patients, that makes more sense I guess, but why trick the audience with that weird projector cage Grace was put in? And didn't they give their Traveller numbers? Still, if the Director can just synchronize a two-way real time conversation like that, that kinda breaks the show in an entirely different way. That skydiver episode was pretty good though.
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Dec 30, 2017 19:14
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grate deceiver posted:If future-Skype was hospice patients, that makes more sense I guess, but why trick the audience with that weird projector cage Grace was put in? And didn't they give their Traveller numbers? Still, if the Director can just synchronize a two-way real time conversation like that, that kinda breaks the show in an entirely different way. Her response was recorded digitally, so it could be seen in the future and then a new message was sent via a different person (who then died) for each director response. It fits entirely with how all the other time travel messages works. I guess you then could question whether a single child would be able to do the directors part without dieing, but I suppose that was semi covered by the deterioration of Carrie every time a new host was sent to her (have we seen any children do multiple messages?).
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Dec 30, 2017 21:05
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I just finished watching the show and it was awesome. One thing I noticed after watching a handful of episodes is that David is what you would get if you combined Chris Pratt with Jim Gaffigan, I can not unsee that.
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Dec 30, 2017 21:33
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grate deceiver posted:I get why they do this, but it's a safe and boring choice. And if you want to make safe and boring tv, maybe don't choose time travel as your central gimmick. S2 at some point turned into an action drama about secret societies fighting about whatever, that might as well not have any time travel or sci-fi in it. Secret agents going on missions, shooting guns and sometimes using blinking gadgets. The overarching plot about T 0001 is kinda meh. The Director could still be lying about how the process works, and it could function like how you prefer and they’re just lying for their own reasons That’s actually something I thought of - is it possible that by using the Director that humanity is unwittingly condemning themselves to a reality in which it exists (and by implication, things are lovely enough for humans to need it)? Preventing Helios did nothing to stop the future, and we know the Director isn’t infallible; maybe it can only track timelines in which it will ultimately be created. We see how far they go to preserve themselves in 17 minutes, could it be that following the Director results in an ontological paradox that necessitates humanity’s doom? That would be some thick irony.
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Dec 31, 2017 01:55
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