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Bogart posted:Release date is end of Q1, so by March 31st, hopefully. Lookin' forward to it. I like some THEY ARE BILLIONS, but it doesn't go deep enough on the gnarly stuff. And the This War Of Mine folks are about nothing if not gnarly stuff. While that stuff is cool, I do hope they also have normal/positive things you can do, which make the game significantly harder. If it's just all misery all the time, it's going to be a very significant one trick pony of a thing.
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Feb 9, 2018 05:22
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| # ¿ May 17, 2024 20:53 |
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I dont know posted:Your city has hope and discontent meters that have to be managed. So it comes down to where you want to make trade offs. If you ban child labor and order a school built for the children it will raise hope and lower misery, but you deprive yourself those workers and have to devote resources to actually building it. That's literally where all the game longevity comes from. Like yeah, haha I said cannibalism is ok and built a child labor hut! I'm the monster haha will be fun for oh let's say exactly a game. But "Oh hey, I genuinely want to keep these people safe. Ok, I can't just do all the "good" options so I'll have to make some concessions for the greater good. Ok well we can eat sawdust food for awhile until we get some better hunters out there. This'll be a short term thing. But I'm going to get a school up and focus on education so it helps us later. I hard draw the line on child labor/exploitation." There is a huge difference for the length of a game between "I am cancelling elections because I know I'm unpopular right now, but I'll fix that as soon as I get xyz working, and we can have elections again after that." and "Haha I can cancel elections, let me just hit that, gently caress these people #assholesim.". It's the reason I still play Tropico 3 every now and again, I always play democratic/good/nice, but sometimes I'll do something unpopular the Island needs, and people will gear up to vote me out, so I quickly drop elections/fake the elections just so I can stay in power a bit longer. Because El Presidente DOES want free elections, but El Presidente needs to finish this thing up first.
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Apr 5, 2018 14:50
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Most of the good options seem uh, significantly better. Child Labor opens up kids working in two buildings that never need to be fully staffed, followed by working out in the field around the same time you run out of stuff to get from the field. Meanwhile child shelters immediately opens up child apprentices, which seems kind of broken! I chose Engineer Apprentices, and my research rates stayed at 100%, but my average time for research went from 7h to 2h. I basically had the full research tree unlocked well before I hit midgame. Also every 3-4 days I'd get a popup saying people were ecstatic their children were learning, and got a Hope bump. That let me do some really awful poo poo later while remaining at max Hope because people were just so happy about their kids. I think Soup is basically essential upfront, because Hunting Huts just don't bring in enough/cost so much. Despite saying it gave a negative modifier, it never did for me. That was kind of baffling. The tutorial being awful was basically the only reason I had to restart. No explanation of streets until I had already built unconnected buildings ( by which point connecting everything to streets would have been a nightmare. ), the Food/Tech tutorials happening on day 2-3, etc. By the time you'd get cannibalism rolling you should already have set up food sources that'd be better for you. Meanwhile cemeteries again gave me Hope bumps every time someone went to see a gravesite. I basically coasted the entire game off the Hope bumps I got for being good early. I had people working 14 hour shifts off soup ( it's the apocalypse, come the gently caress on, no you don't get 8 hour workdays. ) and often in the cold to set poo poo up, but they'd only grumble a bit before praising me for letting them visit graves/kids learning/people are kept in hospice care. Ending was bullshit. I got a "was it worth it what you did." when the only bad thing I ever did was push 14 hour work shifts and made them eat soup. I never chose any of the fascism options of Order, just the Neighborhood Watch stuff. Was really baffling to get basically browbeat over the horrors of soup. I had basically no deaths during the final cold snap either, and ended with plenty of food/coal.
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Apr 25, 2018 20:20
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I wonder what the trigger is for the good ending. Is it total deaths? Or which laws you went for.
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Apr 26, 2018 00:55
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There is a good ending, I just don't know if it's reached through low/no deaths or through good Laws yet. I'll actually argue with the thread and say the games biggest weakness is playing "good" is far and above so powerful you have little to no reason not to. None of the bad law options ( cannibalism, child labor, poisoned food, etc ) really make much sense to do, even on Hard. All of the problems are pretty obviously coming well in advance, and are pretty easy to plan for. A single Hunters Hut can't sustain you past day 10, so you need to either get Scouts going or a Hothouse by then. You don't want your people gathering in the extreme cold so you want a Mill/Mines up pretty quickly since workshops have heaters ( also the basic resources are all pretty low. ). If you can get a Mill/Mine up before the first cold snap, you've basically won a no deaths run. Even all the gotchas are pretty simple. The first cold snap will leave you with a ton of sick/wounded so you'll want multiple med bays as you work towards Infirmaries, but eh. I've got hospice care both times and just built care homes which hold 30 people and reduce their feeding needs to the point they barely exist. Then later when I build my Infirmary they all get healed up and I basically get 30 free workers. The first time I went through I just said gently caress the Gravelly Wounded and built a Graveyard instead. Only lost 5 people in recovery, and after that I had multiple Med Shelters/insulated housing so nobody else really died. Then you have poo poo like the fighting hut/pub which basically remove the CYOA elements, because they remove Discontent at such a constant rate it might as well not exist. In my first game I went through as Order and chose all the good sounding Order stuff which apparently made me fascist for building basic police buildings, even though I never went down the exile/sedition stuff. This time I'm not because I have no need to. Having 2-3 pubs/fighting pits keeps my Discontent at a constant 0, even if I fail a good chunk of pleas. Biggest hint I can give is to plan out your city. The first two rungs around your Gen should be nothing but Houses, fighting rings, and pubs. Your citizens spend 60-80% of their day at home/at pub/watching fighting, and if their home is guaranteed Comfortable you'll reduce a lot of sickness. Workplaces tend to be far better insulated, get better insulated over time, and can utilize heaters which are cheap as gently caress. I find "suburbs" are a bad idea, and instead it's better to set up little gated workshop communities built up around secondary gens/just using heaters because you can just turn all the extra heat on when people are working, which drastically reduces heat usage. I beat the ending because my city didn't have to do anything, all of my people/most important buildings lived in the first 3 tiers around the Gen. So I didn't have to strain the Gen covering an entire city. I was able to keep it relatively set up feeding my core populace and the rest of the city largely either automated or had enough heat through heaters/secondary gens.
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Apr 26, 2018 03:11
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Korthal posted:Did the devs do the research? Is it physically possible for it to get down to -200°F on earth? The sun is going out, so yes. Also yes, because absolute zero is -459
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Apr 26, 2018 03:24
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I just wish a lot of the bad choices weren't so......bad. Soup/Moonshine doesn't have a negative modifier at all for more rations. Sawdust creates more sick. The gently caress would you ever choose Sawdust. More workers at a time when you don't need them ( hint research coal plant/sawmill ASAP, you can build out to them immediately and then don't need to care about the piles ever cause you'll get 50-75 wood per shift in a warm building. ), that immediately fall off in usefulness once you get some refugees in ( because you'll very quickly hit a point you have more people then jobs if you aren't terrible. ). Or a 25% booster to research speed/healing speed, a perma 15% hope, and constant free hope events from people thanking you. Not a hard choice. Cemetery vs Mass Grave? Oh no, they'll bury people and that takes time! But it takes time out of the free time period, so it's not an issue. Meanwhile the mass grave will spread disease once you have to expand in that direction, and you take double the Discontent/Hope loss from Adult Died. Also since they have to physically move the body there, the Cemetery being in the city proper is easier to reach then the farther away mass grave so it's still faster to just build a Cemetery. Amputees and Palliative Care are both technically regarded as good by the game, but you might as well go Palliative because you can grab Care House quickly and it's a building that holds 30 people and feeds them 1/3rd rations while keeping them alive until you can get an Infirmary up and magically heal them all back to perfect workers. Why amputate people and thus lose workers forever when you can just store your sick until you can heal them later for basically no cost. Even the Purpose stuff is really skewed. Order goes Totalitarian really quickly and only really gives you more ways of gaining Hope ( which you barely need if you've already been going good. ). Faith takes a long time to go Totalitarian and gives you a bunch of ways to raise global heat/huge boosts to healing/cheaper food costs. Plus Faith also has all the Hope gain stuff through shrines/temples, while also giving you the same efficiency rates Order gives factories, but to all buildings. Like going Totalitarian/dystopian actually makes the game significantly harder. And that's cool and all, but uh.
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Apr 27, 2018 04:52
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Gammymajams posted:I think I'm going to buy either this or Surviving Mars this weekend. How does the replayability/ complexity of each compare, if anyone has played both? I want to get value for money since I think there are more interesting games out right now than I can afford time and money wise. Thanks in advance. Surviving Mars is better value for the money. Surviving Mars is built off slow start ( using robots to build your Dome for human habitation/systems ), learning from failure ( oh no, my power grid wasn't good enough/collapsed ), and adapting from there until you eventually get sustained life on Mars. At that point it's about spreading out and building multiple Domes and dealing with whatever Mystery the game gave you out of the list of 12. Each "game" will take between 15-25 hours, with the first 5 being a slow ramp up of setting up systems. There is an element of randomess as you have 12 mid/endgame "Mysteries" to solve, the maps are procgenned, and you can make the game easier/harder as you desire. Frostpunk is a far more driven experience/story experience. The same things will happen every time you play the scenario. Your average scenario takes roughly 9-12 hours, with two additional scenarios that'll take you 5-12 hours. While you will likely have to restart once or twice, once you get the core gameplay loop it's pretty trivial to hustle through each of the 3 scenarios at a decent pace, since they don't change that much between them. There is no inherent randomness. If you just plan on playing the game once, SM will give you more bang for the buck. You'll get 25+ hours, and can even take your time after the Mystery building more Domes and further building Martian Civilization out. If you plan on playing several scenarios, SM gives you more bang for the buck. With so many random maps, plus a wide variety of varied sponsors your starts will never really be the same. And with 12 Mysteries, you have the pull to at least play the game multiple times to see what the other Mysteries look like. With Frostpunk you'll largely always have the same map, and the additional scenarios while fun don't deviate that much from the core scenario, which make them pretty easy to beat.
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Apr 28, 2018 07:43
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Soylent Pudding posted:My big issue with "is it worth it" is that the question only matters if in the frostpunk universe longterm survival of the species is possible without going full fascist. The game makes a big deal of surviving one storm but there is no indication if the planet will ever recover, or even if it will stabilize at a level of cold steampunk civilization can adapt to. The sun is going out. Nothing you do will matter, because it'll just keep getting colder/worse. It's not a global cooling/climate change issue.
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Apr 28, 2018 21:48
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Man, I was dimming on this game hard, because as I mentioned upthread I felt like I had it beat pretty quickly, and kept giving up on saves early as I "had it down.". I'd get to around day 25-30ish with zero deaths, a fully built city, most of the research tree down, etc. Friend convinced me to jump up to Hard. Here's my mode, christ. I'm getting my rear end beat every single day, every choice is a fuckup, and I actually have to use the negative modifiers from the Book of Laws just to get through it all. Child Labor actually makes sense now, because oh boy do I not have enough resource gathers, and I can't build a Beacon ( 35 STEEL? IN THIS ECONOMY. MY WORKERS ARE NEEDED EVERYWHERE ELSE. ). I had to build two Hunters Huts ASAP just to keep food up, but now I lack the workers to get me Coal. First cold front felt twice as bad. It basically ended me by day 6. This is a whole new game that doesn't gently caress around at all, I love it. Any other Hard players in the thread? Seems all houses have to be built around the Gen, no exceptions because the first cold snap is so much worse. I think next game I'm going to just rush wood ASAP to get those two Hunters Huts/Workshop/etc, then once I have the wood I need, send everyone over to Coal to gear up for the later days. Then try and rush Sawmill before better Hunters so I can gather wood quicker and get into the t2 for Coal Mine/Hot House once I actually get a Beacon up.
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May 2, 2018 05:07
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So I figured out the Endings. Between 1-3 "bad" choices get you the good ending. "Bad" choices are things like Child Labor, Mass Graves, Dueling, Prostitution, etc. It seems each choice has a weight to it, apparently you can do 4 "bad" choices if they are all minor ones. Child Labor is not a minor one. SOUP is still considered a bad choice by the way, just a minor one. The gently caress do these guys have against Soup? If you do more then 3 "bad" choices you get the neutral ending. ie "Was it worth it.". If you choose the red research in Faith/Order you get the bad ending. ie "We crossed a line and lost our humanity.".
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May 2, 2018 17:32
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e: Actually screw that. What's the plan for dealing with sickness on Hard? I got to day 9 with a Steelworks/Sawmill up, but still no Beacon ( couldn't afford it ) and like 50 sick. Even with heating as best I could. It got to the point I couldn't ignore it, as people were gearing up to depose me. Seems like it might be worth it to just hit Overcrowding ASAP to stop people from working while sick initially so they can be healed in 2-3 hours rather then 2-3 days? Alternatively, might be better to gather steel quicker so I can get a Beacon up faster. That way it doesn't matter if half my population is sick, the other half can work. e: Also trick I found. During the first 4 days, before the cold snap it's warm enough you don't need the Gen on at all. You'll get Discontent if you don't turn it on at night, but it's a real easy way to gather up 500-600 Coal upfront. Also some other quick tips. - You don't need a Cookhouse until day 3. You should get 1/2 Hunter Huts up by end of day 1 however just to get food in ASAP. - Gatherers Huts are must build. They have a 25% increased gather rate from gathering naturally, give heat so less sickness initially, and can cover 3 piles at once with only 10 workers. Once salvaged they give back almost all their resources, so in reality they only cost 3 wood/1 steel from loss. The higher gather rate more then makes up for the cost of them ( especially being able to gather Steel/Wood at the same time/same rate. ). - You want a Beacon up ASAP so you can get your free Steam Core/Automaton/Food/Steel.. Even if you get hit with short term pain, it's worth it for those first real returns. I'd argue you want to use your first Steam Core on a Hothouse, with your second probably being used for a Coal Mine. Or just get a Thumper and put them near your two Coal Gatherers Huts until you get other resources handled. 2 Hothouses/2 HH would probably be an easy way to keep Discontent down with a larger population from finding folks. - Overcrowding seems extremely worth it. People getting sicker because they aren't getting treated is number one thing that'll end your games. I lost two Hard games in a row because I ignored Health until forced to, and when I finally built 2 more Medical Posts everyone was extremely sick and needed 2-3 days to recover. By that point I was too deep in the hole and couldn't come back from it. Rookersh fucked around with this message at 22:49 on May 2, 2018 |
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May 2, 2018 21:45
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Nosfereefer posted:What I don't really like about the game's sense of morality, is that it somehow expects me to maintain a relative utopia; horrible work conditions would be common back in London, and the concept of children's rights were pretty non-existent in Victorian society. you don't. the way the games morality is built is off 3 separate totals. - if you choose the red item you "cross the line" and lose your humanity to the cold. - if you choose 3-4 "excessive" options, you get "was it worth it." ( i haven't figured out if it's 3 or 4 yet. ) - if you choose 1-3 "excessive" options you get "we survived with our humanity intact." dredging the files, child workers hothouses/cooking isn't considered an excessive option. but child labor in the mines is. neither radical treatment or palliative care count as excessive, but overcrowding and triage are. emergency shift is considered excessive, extended isn't. so if you want extended shifts you have to burn a excessive for it. dueling law is excessive, house of pleasure isn't! corpse disposal is obviously excessive, as is all it's side laws. sawdust is excessive. anything above faith keepers is excessive, prison/propaganda is labeled neutral - excessive which uh, is the only thing with that value, so who the gently caress knows. I'd say they count as excessive because I didn't go past them my first game and still got was it worth it but can't prove it yet. patrols is fine. looks like if you are going for good, you can basically only grab neighborhood watch/guard stations/foreman/patrols from order. if you go faith you can grab house of prayer, evening prayer, temple, shrines, house of healing, and field kitchens. i'm guessing most people grab emergency shift to unlock extended, grab overcrowding, triage, and maybe something like faith keepers/prison and that's enough to push it over the line.
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May 12, 2018 19:35
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Magni posted:I had a prison and a propaganda center in my Order run and didn't cross the line. Might be that some of the events can cause those to count as excessive depending on the options you pick, I guess. Err did you get the neutral ending? Crossing the Line only happens if you choose the Red option. ie did you get "Was it worth it."
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May 13, 2018 04:07
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skeleton warrior posted:Most of my runs had prisons and propaganda and I’ve never gotten “was it worth it”. I wonder then if Prison/Propaganda can be either or depending on your ingame choices. Interesting! They are the only two in game with a split definition. All the faith stuff is either "neutral" or "excessive", same with all the adaption stuff. Yet they have "neutral/excessive."
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May 13, 2018 19:35
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