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Ambi
Dec 30, 2011

Leave it to me
Re: custom skills/backgrounds, I always liked the burning wheel-esque (iirc?) solution of not being able to improve your skills until you've used each of them.

That or flat skill modifiers, so there's no mechanical incentive to use the "best" skill over the most apt.

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oriongates
Mar 14, 2013

Validate Me!


PDQ# does something a bit similar, Training Points are earned for failing significant rolls. So you advance slower if you're doing stuff like picking a single overlarge Quality and trying to apply it to everything. Also helps self-correct if you choose Qualities that are less relevant, since you'll probably fail more at the tasks you can't handle well and you'll earn more Training Points.

Although I know asynchronous advancement rules are a bugbear, this is probably my favorite variant of them.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

oriongates posted:

PDQ# does something a bit similar, Training Points are earned for failing significant rolls.

I was already familiar with RuneQuest's idea of "you increase the skill whenever you fail to use it" as a means of incentivizing people to use low-level skills, but drat, letting people gain skill points that they can spend on skills besides the one that they used is a brilliant next step.

Sion
Oct 16, 2004

"I'm the boss of space. That's plenty."
Mark Rein Hagen is a loving moron.

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

It's fine.
Don't worry about it.

gradenko_2000 posted:

Don't play the Fighter, and probably don't play the Rogue. It's a Monte Cook game, so Wizards are the best.

An unavoidable issue is the basic design of the game:

1. your stat points are your hit points, and also your extra-effort points

2. at any time, the GM can introduce a complication to try and gently caress you over. You can either accept this and receive XP in exchange, or spend XP to block the GM. Since you also need XP to, you know, level up, this can get really annoying really quickly

3. if you ever roll a 1, you get to suffer a complication without the GM needing to reward you with any XP for it, and without being able to spend XP to block it. The "solution" is to never make any rolls, either by simply making poo poo happen (which is why Wizards rule), or by driving down the difficulty to 0 so you auto-succeed. Even the latter is going to have its share of issues, given that applying extra effort to drive down the difficulty further will cost you your stat points (see point 1).

My favorite bit is the HP pools are split across Might, Speed, and Intellect, and you have to pull from the appropriate pool to boost a roll through Effort. The abilities each class uses also generally require an expenditure of points from one of those pools, as appropriate. So, the wizard class uses their Intellect pool to cast spells, etc. The thing is, Might damage will always be the most common one because it's the default damage of any attack unless noted otherwise. Now, the fighter class has abilities that use the Speed pool, too, but the Speed pool is what is used to dodge attacks. So you can either burn points from your main HP pool for abilities, or burn points from your main defensive pool. There's basically no enemy attacks in the base rules that deal Intellect damage.

Slimnoid
Sep 6, 2012

Does that mean I don't get the job?
Yesterday I went to my LGS for the first time in over a year and one of the employees there talked about Guild Ball in what I assume was an effort to drum up interest for it. Within 2 minutes he mentioned a character getting raped in the fluff as part of their backstory and chuckled about it.

I loving hate people.



also hi it's my birthday, Pandemic Legacy season 2 is fun and y'all should play it.

FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually

gradenko_2000 posted:

I was already familiar with RuneQuest's idea of "you increase the skill whenever you fail to use it" as a means of incentivizing people to use low-level skills, but drat, letting people gain skill points that they can spend on skills besides the one that they used is a brilliant next step.
Not quite - RQ has you put a tick mark next to your skill when you succeed in using it during an adventure. When downtime arrives, you go through all the checkmarked skills and roll them (modified by INT), and if you fail the roll, you add +D6 percentage points to that skill. So someone with 15% in Lockpicking has an 85% chance of improving his ability to pick locks after successfully picking a lock in an adventure, while a grizzled duelist with Sword 90% only has a 10% of getting better with his sword after winning a series of swordfights.

It's a great system with a couple of glitches (most notably, it incentivizes players and parties to make a lot of extraneous skill checks and sub-optimal attempts in order to maximize the number of tick marks, which leads to things like the "weapon caddy" effect).

RQ also had (like a lot of early RPGs) extensive rules for spending money and time on training to improve skills.

RQ Classic Reprint Rulebook posted:

To learn a skill by experience, a character must use it
successfully in conditions of stress. The player may then try to
make a roll of 100 minus the current ability with the skill, or less,
on D100, modified by his INT. For each point of INT over 12,
add 3% to the roll needed. For each point under 9, subtract 3%
from the roll. If he makes it, the character goes up 5% ability in
that skill.

A character can also buy training. When a character does,
non-fighting skills are learned at the same rate of Lunars per
week as fighting skills are. 100 L buys 2 hours a day of training
for a week. The cost of learning shown on the tables indicate
how many weeks each 5% increase in skill takes to learn. Some
skills must be learned all at once, rather than 5% at a time. The
cost of learning these skills indicates how much time must be
spent by the character in learning the skill.

LaSquida
Nov 1, 2012

Just keep on walkin'.

Slimnoid posted:

Yesterday I went to my LGS for the first time in over a year and one of the employees there talked about Guild Ball in what I assume was an effort to drum up interest for it. Within 2 minutes he mentioned a character getting raped in the fluff as part of their backstory and chuckled about it.

I loving hate people.






What the gently caress. I'm a huge Guild Ball fan, but that poo poo would've driven me right the gently caress away.

Slimnoid
Sep 6, 2012

Does that mean I don't get the job?

LeSquide posted:

What the gently caress. I'm a huge Guild Ball fan, but that poo poo would've driven me right the gently caress away.

It's seriously turned me off from giving it a closer look. I was interested for a while since skirmish games are kinda my thing but when some 300lb neckbeard brings that up as an example of how "dark and grim" the game is, then maybe I don't want to play that game!

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008
Are you guys talking about Gutter from the Union? Because uhhh when I read that, I finally realized that this was not the wacky Soccer themed Blood Bowl I came in for...

Guild Ball Season 1 posted:


I heard that she was a princess once, from one of the Sovereign States in the north, out Erskirad way. Then, as part of a raid, she gets captured by Blackheart, who intends to ransom her o ; thing is, northern nobles are even more ruthless than he is and a female heir is worth nothing really. So Blackheart never got his coin for this one. So he keeps her locked aboard his ship’s lower decks, barely feeds her, takes his fill of her every night for a month.

Then the damnedest thing happens. Crazy bitch decides she’s fallen in love with him. Totally broken down. Must be something snapped inside her head for that to happen. Maybe she wasn’t too sane to begin with.

Anyhow, old Blackheart is no fool. He knows how to exploit an opportunity when it comes his way. Makes her first mate. Who can you trust more than some batshit crazy bitch totally devoted to you? No one in a crew of cutthroat pirates certainly. He didn’t look after her though. Oh no, she was thrown to the wolves. Rough ride for the poor little princess, I heard she was raped a dozen times, near got herself killed learning the ropes. But each one of those men that abused her started turning up dead, one after another. And each time, her smile got that little bit more deranged, a little more like she was enjoying seeing the fear in the eyes of the crew. Before too long, they’re following her orders alright.

She’s the only one he took with him when he gave up the pirate life and she’s been with him ever since. I think she’s given up pursuing him, but that hasn’t stopped her butchering anyone that she thinks is a threat. She’s worse than most of the crew on his ship ever were now. Swings that mean-looking hook around with far too much intent for my liking, and that knife always tickles your throat if she takes you down, like she wants you to know that she could end you right there if she wanted. Keep her away from Harmony and the boss, she might not stop for a woman.

She even plays the game. Now that’s the real surprise. Gods only know what her warped mind understands about that. P’haps she’s just trying to get his attention, turning up without him on teams. Maybe she’s just following his orders. Could be something else, we’re both far too sensible to even begin to understand the woman.


I mean, even after that there's a lot of stuff that's either grim or just downright depressing. The team captain of the Butcher's Guild, for example, goes on a killing spree to get revenge for someone shanking his teammate, only to be left for dead by his number two. And in season two you get stuff like a team captain from season one basically getting tossed away like garbage because they were crippled in a match.

I mean, different strokes and the fluff is largely irrelevant to the game itself but I went in to the setting fluff expecting a hoot like soccer themed Wacky Racers and Blood Bowl's 'dark-elf assassin that was hired after he killed a player during a match, only to be passed the ball accidentally and fleeing all the way to a touchdown' but then I read the fluff and it was a downer! :saddowns:

Bedlamdan fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Jan 2, 2018

Der Waffle Mous
Nov 27, 2009

In the grim future, there is only commerce.
gently caress this lovely hobby

Sion
Oct 16, 2004

"I'm the boss of space. That's plenty."
loving hell

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib
Wow that's garbage.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!
:stare:

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

Speaking of garbage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Fm89zmb3G0

long-ass nips Diane
Dec 13, 2010

Breathe.

I have a good 20 Guild Ball models, including the one that the terrible fluff's about, and now I'm really glad they don't put any of that poo poo in a place where I might've actually read it.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
I didn't know about Guild Ball or Steamforged Ltd. until today; now I am familiar with all their products to ensure I never give them any money or praise ever.

CaptCommy
Aug 13, 2012

The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a goat.

long-rear end nips Diane posted:

I have a good 20 Guild Ball models, including the one that the terrible fluff's about, and now I'm really glad they don't put any of that poo poo in a place where I might've actually read it.

Yeah the fluff is super duper easy to ignore if you want. I do think they've done a better job with the writing as the game has gone on, but I also understand if the Gutter stuff still turns people away. The early stuff is definitely "my first grimdark"

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
I think my first grimdark was, like, a particularly gothic episode of The Real Ghostbusters, and not fantasizing about raping a woman until she loves me

CaptCommy
Aug 13, 2012

The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a goat.

Halloween Jack posted:

I think my first grimdark was, like, a particularly gothic episode of The Real Ghostbusters, and not fantasizing about raping a woman until she loves me

Yeah, I guess the better way to frame it is that whoever wrote the early stuff was very clearly a big Game of Thrones fan and copied a lot of the worst parts of that (and in this case, turned it to 11)

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008

CaptCommy posted:

Yeah the fluff is super duper easy to ignore if you want. I do think they've done a better job with the writing as the game has gone on, but I also understand if the Gutter stuff still turns people away. The early stuff is definitely "my first grimdark"

Yeah, I think part of why I found Guildball less appealing for me was that I went in wanting and expecting Soccer Bloodbowl. Malifaux is over the top in edginess too, but I’m more willing to tolerate it because I already go in knowing it’s edgy. The Ressurectionists have Seamus, the bastard child of Jack the Ripper and the Mad Hatter, who ressurects the prostitutes he murders as his undead minions and is at a minimum implied to be a necrophiliac. But Malifaux isn’t vaguely similar to a different game that I have nostalgia for so I just shrug and make an Ortega crew. Because family values and violence are my jams.

Ewen Cluney
May 8, 2012

Ask me about
Japanese elfgames!
https://twitter.com/nekoewen/status/948265344195379200

Dunno about you guys, but I'm going to be buying some stickers for the next time I run a big game. Also possibly getting some sticker sheets custom made.

Mr. Maltose
Feb 16, 2011

The Guffless Girlverine
I'm still boggled by what anyone would get out of being a preschool teacher but for 20 something manchildren.

Countblanc
Apr 20, 2005

Help a hero out!
if a GM started putting Good Job stickers on my stuff I'd immediately assume they were dripping with irony venom and it'd take a long time to be conditioned away from that notion

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Ewen Cluney posted:

https://twitter.com/nekoewen/status/948265344195379200

Dunno about you guys, but I'm going to be buying some stickers for the next time I run a big game. Also possibly getting some sticker sheets custom made.

If any of this is true, my favorite part is how these adults have been completely conditioned to actually care about these stickers. They're cooking the meals to get the stickers, and they backed off something because they threatened to take the sticker away. They are literally demonstrating the behavior of a five-year-old child in preschool.

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

Countblanc posted:

if a GM started putting Good Job stickers on my stuff I'd immediately assume they were dripping with irony venom and it'd take a long time to be conditioned away from that notion

Terrible Opinions
Oct 18, 2013



A nerd conditioned to bath through stickers is better than a nerd who doesn't bath.

Countblanc
Apr 20, 2005

Help a hero out!

Der Waffle Mous
Nov 27, 2009

In the grim future, there is only commerce.
we found out, ya know, you can just buy psychological validation..

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib
Literal good boy points.

Yawgmoth
Sep 10, 2003

This post is cursed!

Covok posted:

If any of this is true, my favorite part is how these adults have been completely conditioned to actually care about these stickers. They're cooking the meals to get the stickers, and they backed off something because they threatened to take the sticker away. They are literally demonstrating the behavior of a five-year-old child in preschool.

occamsnailfile
Nov 4, 2007



zamtrios so lonely
Grimey Drawer
I dunno, it sounds like she's teaching some young manchildren to clean and groom and cook real food, this is serious public service she's doing here. It's too bad they probably though listening to their own mothers was beneath them growing up or they'd already have this.

Weirdo
Jul 22, 2004

I stay up late :coffee:

Grimey Drawer
I think the stickers is a genius ploy, after all it speaks to our inner child, and my inner child is a huge fan of dungeons and dragons :B

Falstaff
Apr 27, 2008

I have a kind of alacrity in sinking.

One of my players, in order to get all the PCs to work together better, did up a poster board depicting all the PCs' names, meant to be a representation of the same thing in the party's headquarters. When a PC did really well, he gave them a gold star; if they went off and caused problems for the rest of the team, they got a frowny face.

One of the players complained mightily about the concept (in a way that his complaints were half IC and half OOC.) He just so happened to be the player whose PC was most likely to go against the grain of party consensus, and often mess things up for the rest of them. After the third session of this, he'd accumulated the most gold stars.

Sadly, the player who started it stopped bothering with the poster after the fourth session or so. But by then the PCs were working together much better so mission accomplished.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

I'm just saying, if it was an in-person game, you'd have loved my cooking.

Paranoid Dude
Jul 6, 2014
Who on Earth complains about people not dressing well for a game of DnD or Fate?

Weirdo
Jul 22, 2004

I stay up late :coffee:

Grimey Drawer

Paranoid Dude posted:

Who on Earth complains about people not dressing well for a game of DnD or Fate?

As someone with a sense of smell and limited French language skills, this moi.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

Paranoid Dude posted:

Who on Earth complains about people not dressing well for a game of DnD or Fate?
Given that the person talking about this says that having to "smell good" to game, I'm guessing the OP there conflates "dressing well" with "wearing clothes that have been laundered since the last time you wore them".

e: also what Weirdo said

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Paranoid Dude posted:

Who on Earth complains about people not dressing well for a game of DnD or Fate?

I don't think it's about showing up to the game in a coat-and-tails, or even in pants and a collared shirt, but just coming to the game in clothes that have been worn for less than 24 hours.

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Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

It's fine.
Don't worry about it.
Stickers are cool and a fun visual acknowledgement that you did something well. I won a book of puppy stickers in a joke raffle at work and started slipping them in stuff that got returned by our fact-checkers for corrections because wtf else was I supposed to do with them. Now they get upset if there's not a puppy sticker in something they get back from me.

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