|
MechaX posted:Luckily Miura said Berserk is not going to end on a totally dark ending, so there will definitely be some comeuppance there. Mirua has also said the series is mostly done...so maybe five or ten years
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 06:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 17:36 |
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:Akira you mean. Ryo is the one who made everything worse. Ryo was right about humans, most of us are dicks and hypocritical doomed to destroy ourselves. Demons not only are the native lifeform, but even if they are ruthless aren't hypocrites and are capable of love and honor. God also is pure evil. Ryo did nothing wrong and I salute his future partnership with Akira after he turns into two lesbains who merge together, and then give birth to Akira.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 06:41
|
|
|
Tuxedo Catfish posted:Stylistically I adored this show but I'm not really used to a Yuasa project being this unrelentingly bleak. Yeah I'm not a fan, but I'll admit I have a extremely low tolerance for bleak or dark in my media, reality is hosed up enough as it is, don't need my media that way either also I won't deny that I'm getting really sick of media depicting God as evil NutritiousSnack posted:Ryo was right about humans, most of us are dicks and hypocritical doomed to destroy ourselves. Demons not only are the native lifeform, but even if they are ruthless aren't hypocrites and are capable of love and honor. God also is pure evil. I completely disagree about that, honestly how Humanity's decline was shown completely destroyed my suspension of disbelief for the show, it's ridiculous that one athlete turning into a monster, no matter how horrid the results, would be enough to cause civilization to collapse so quickly and so viciously, even with the fact that the Demons had infiltrated at least several governments and militaries(which leads into another thing that annoys me, sure they explained the origin for demons, but they didn't explain at all how they got so organized in the modern day), it's the kind of writing only a nihilistic moron could come up with(if it's not obvious I honestly have a very low opinion of Go Nagai as both a writer and person, even if I am a huge Mazinger fan)
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 07:01
|
|
|
I had many issues with the show, particularly in the second half (I came to this as someone who loves most of Yuasa's work and knew of Devilman primarily through twitter osmosis), but the one which irks me the most is what I see as the complete mishandling of what were supposed to be emotional/resonant moments in general, and particularly ones which involved Ryo and Akira as a pair. This might just be the result of being a faithful adaptation, but even if that's the case, there should have been some decisions made to improve them. This is most apparent in the finale, where the show desperately shoves some flashbacks of their relationship at you for the first time (hello, rabbit on the moon thing? stabbing capybaras?) to try to get you to believe that there is something there and that Satan's grief/regret means....anything? The show failed to get me to believe that Akira would actually be friends with Ryo when all we see of him, even during childhood, is violence and being an rear end in a top hat, which is a big enough problem in itself, but when you add the fact that the show doesn't even know how to space out the bits of backstory it has, and might as well be flashing BE SAD, it's just painful. There are enough cuts to Ryo scrolling through childhood photos of the pair throughout the show that I get a sense of the affection he has for Akira, to an extent, but that layer could have been fleshed out more. Basically, if your story ends on one character mourning another at the end of the world, I should really care about those characters as a unit. I didn't. This is all INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING because I think Yuasa knows how to nail scenes and dynamics like this! Ping Pong! Kaiba! So I'm just very confused about what happened here. Anyway, I'm probably going to read the manga at some point to see how many of my problems (beyond the above, pacing, good god the pacing, among other things) stem from Maybe Just Not Liking Devilman Very Much and how much is this adaptation just not working for me. Cheap Diner Coffee fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Jan 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 07:02
|
|
|
Ultimately, it was alright I felt; I'm not completely sold on Yuasa with this being my first real exposure to him, but eh. So much of Go Nagai is just stupidly grimdark for no reason and this did as well as it could have. It still makes me wish that Guyver could have gotten this kind of treatment instead; I was always more of a fan of how Guyver did the "boy gets powers to brutally rip apart aliens/demons" kind of thing over Devilman (or Devilman Lady for that matter, but Lady will always have a special place in my heart for how absolutely stupid its ending events are).
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 07:07
|
|
|
I'm two episodes in and this is going to sound like a ridiculous question given the content of the rest of the show but is the family cat going to starve to death or similar? There's two different scenes in Ep. 02 of it scratching its empty bowl and I can deal with over the top human horror but not something like that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 07:07
|
|
|
drrockso20 posted:Yeah I'm not a fan, but I'll admit I have a extremely low tolerance for bleak or dark in my media, reality is hosed up enough as it is, don't need my media that way either Nah that sounds about right for humanity who are quite to happy to genocide each other due to a slight difference in skin colour.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 07:09
|
|
|
taichara posted:I'm two episodes in and this is going to sound like a ridiculous question given the content of the rest of the show but is the family cat going to starve to death or similar? There's two different scenes in Ep. 02 of it scratching its empty bowl and I can deal with over the top human horror but not something like that. The cat dies a heroic death, and when it happens it's more surreal than grotesquely realistic. e: (much bigger spoilers than my answer above) honestly I kind of want a spin-off about DEVILMAN CAT Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Jan 6, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 07:10
|
|
|
Tuxedo Catfish posted:The cat dies a heroic death, and when it happens it's more surreal than grotesquely realistic. I think I can deal with heroic surreal cat death. Neglect or something would be totally different. Cheers, and thanks for cluing me in. It's kind of a sore spot, even in something as crazy as Devilman.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 07:15
|
|
|
sounds like some of you wish devilman crybaby was another kemonozume
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 07:29
|
|
|
Relin posted:sounds like some of you wish devilman crybaby was another kemonozume Kemonozume is the better show but that's not really much of a mark against Crybaby.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 07:31
|
|
|
also Satan's grief being too late and totally inadequate is kind of the point, I think. Like Miki's heartfelt appeal to humanity and her subsequent death is treated with much more gravitas and hits home much more whereas the reveal that Ryo / Satan is talking to Akira's dismembered corpse at the end verges on being a visual gag. Akira was totally mistaken to put his faith in him as a friend, and the fate of humanity is frankly less our fault than just a matter of being caught in the crossfire of an uncaring God and a selfish beast. We're obviously imperfect and yet humanity is distinct in that we at least tried to be better, which is a theme I can absolutely get behind.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 07:43
|
|
|
Devilman (like a lot of nagai works) did many fresh and innovative things, 40 years ago... but it aged very very badly.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 07:48
|
|
|
MechaX posted:Ultimately, it was alright I felt; I'm not completely sold on Yuasa with this being my first real exposure to him, but eh. So much of Go Nagai is just stupidly grimdark for no reason and this did as well as it could have. I'm honestly amazed Hollywood hasn't tried adapting Guyver again, or indeed how it's been barely touched as a franchise since the 90s outside of the 2006 anime
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 07:50
|
|
|
Was that loving Trump? LoL.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 07:50
|
|
|
YggdrasilTM posted:Devilman (like a lot of nagai works) did many fresh and innovative things, 40 years ago... but it aged very very badly. Honestly I really wish it didn't have such a memorable ending, it should have faded into the mists of time like most of Go Nagai's other manga
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 07:52
|
|
|
YggdrasilTM posted:Devilman (like a lot of nagai works) did many fresh and innovative things, 40 years ago... but it aged very very badly. i don't really believe in media "aging badly" like as a metaphor it sort of works for stuff like, old terribly racist cartoons or something where social norms have changed but even then it's shaky this is my first exposure to Devilman and I think it's a very simple, very raw story where people don't necessarily act realistically, but that's fine because it still manages to be emotionally powerful also it's kind of cool seeing the patient zero for certain concepts and visual themes that show up in tons of other manga/anime
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 07:54
|
|
|
drrockso20 posted:I'm honestly amazed Hollywood hasn't tried adapting Guyver again, or indeed how it's been barely touched as a franchise since the 90s outside of the 2006 anime They're waiting for the manga to finish some time after Berserk
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 07:55
|
|
|
drrockso20 posted:I completely disagree about that, honestly how Humanity's decline was shown completely destroyed my suspension of disbelief for the show, it's ridiculous that one athlete turning into a monster, no matter how horrid the results, would be enough to cause civilization to collapse so quickly and so viciously, even with the fact that the Demons had infiltrated at least several governments and militaries(which leads into another thing that annoys me, sure they explained the origin for demons, but they didn't explain at all how they got so organized in the modern day), it's the kind of writing only a nihilistic moron could come up with(if it's not obvious I honestly have a very low opinion of Go Nagai as both a writer and person, even if I am a huge Mazinger fan) Think about it this way: it's not just "one athlete turning into a monster." It's humanity living with monsters among them for years, probably suspecting, probably always looking away and telling themselves it isn't there, living in a constant state of fear and denial -- and then uncontrovertible proof is all it took to unleash a tidal wave. Also, remember that Ryo had been accumulating footage of attacks the whole time, so it's again less "one athlete" and more "oh by the way all of these unsolved murders and disappearances were committed by demons," combined with fearmongering from an organized cabal of evil shapeshifters in positions of power. Again, this show really doesn't reflect as badly as humanity as it seems at first glance -- although it does reflect quite poorly on God and I understand that's still an issue for you as well.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 07:59
|
|
|
I don't see how god was reflected poorly here. Satan and his Demons were assholes the whole time. God punished them and brought forth humanity. After Satan made his move to cause fear and panic in the world God still only tired to destroy the demons and spare humanity, but the Demons were too vicious and evil and caused all of mankind to die. Satan makes his plan clear to kill all of humanity then attack god again.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 08:20
|
|
|
I mean at a bare minimum he used Earth as Satan's prison/exile, meaning he basically handed him an army in the form of the previously-wild demons and then either created humanity on top of that powder keg, or at the very least didn't intervene as Satan wiped us all out until it was too late. Plus all the usual problems of theodicy, of course. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 08:24
|
|
|
 that taskbar
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 08:35
|
|
|
Tuxedo Catfish posted:I mean at a bare minimum he used Earth as Satan's prison/exile, meaning he basically handed him an army in the form of the previously-wild demons and then either created humanity on top of that powder keg, or at the very least didn't intervene as Satan wiped us all out until it was too late. From the way Satan explained it. He was cast out and chose earth as his refuge uniting the Demons under him to attack God. God proceeded to try and wipe them out to destroy Satan and his followers. Then created Humanity on the planet. Satan and many demons survived and resurfaced however and proceeded with their plan to wipe out humanity then take another go at God. Indeed he did not intervene except with one attempt to annihilate the Demons in one chunk of the world, but spare humanity. However after that most of humanity was destroyed up until the final battle between Satan and his followers, the last remnants of humanity, and Akira's Devilmen. God then proceeded to scorch the earth and reset it in a new loop once the remnants of humanity and Akira's Devilmen were defeated. Likely God was hoping Satan would be defeated by Akira or the Remnants of humanity and it could start over with the Demons gone.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 09:14
|
|
|
All right, just got done binging. This show is cheesy as gently caress. And it played me like a fiddle.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 09:34
|
|
|
It seems pretty questionable to just not include Ryo's regrets from that one page. the work is grimdark enough as it stands without further embellishment.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 10:51
|
|
|
A big flaming stink posted:It seems pretty questionable to just not include Ryo's regrets from that one page. the work is grimdark enough as it stands without further embellishment. What are those? ————- Re God being evil remarks: Its super easy to construct a narrative that God is actually good and cool from the elements provided by the story. I’m not sure how people are coming to that conclusion.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 11:01
|
|
|
Holy poo poo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0oyzTFah8w
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 11:02
|
|
|
StarMinstrel posted:What are those? SERIOUS loving SPOILERS https://imgur.com/a/I0MmQ
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 11:08
|
|
|
StarMinstrel posted:What are those? Context from the manga, where he’s an indifferent rear end in a top hat who paid no regard to humanity and wiped out the demons because he found them aesthetically displeasing. The ambiguity is played up slightly in this adaptation, but not enough to detract from the overall theme of ‘love and compassion are not survival mechanisms, and the coldest, most ruthless fighter will win in a straight fight, but on the other hand, they’re the best things about us’. That message was in the manga, but also crops up a fair amount in other works by the writer of Crybaby, Ichiro Okouchi, and Yuasa himself did a whole show, Ping Pong, about the value of failure.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 11:09
|
|
|
petting the poo poo out of my black cat right now also god was right to kill the demons
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 11:21
|
|
|
"Is it okay for me to wear my shoes in her-" "I don't give a poo poo."
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 11:25
|
|
|
A big flaming stink posted:SERIOUS loving SPOILERS I feel like it was ok that the show implied it instead of having ryo explicitly lay it out. The pieces are all there and the parallels between what god does to ryo and what ryo does to humanity aren’t exactly subtle
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 13:25
|
|
|
The Devilman OAV dub is is a work of art
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 16:29
|
|
|
I like that the old Devilman anime exists in this world.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 16:47
|
|
|
Relin posted:petting the poo poo out of my black cat right now The true victim in this show.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 17:01
|
|
|
StarMinstrel posted:The true victim in this show. I was genuinely happy that the cat survived into ep 10, but got right back down when he gets killed by Satan in a split second in that clusterfuck of a final battle.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 17:30
|
|
|
Manga Entertainment dubs are unironically superior, and I wish they still did them. I also just lol at turbo weebs who get upset that there are too many expletives in the dub of Devilman.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 17:57
|
|
|
Monomythian posted:Manga Entertainment dubs are unironically superior, and I wish they still did them. I mean, I can see people thinking that terminally dweeby Good Boy Akira has a bit too much of a potty mouth. Maybe save it until he fuses with Amon.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 19:08
|
|
|
drrockso20 posted:also I won't deny that I'm getting really sick of media depicting God as evil Then whence come evil 
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 19:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 17:36 |
|
|
SPOILERS As a huge fan of Devilman (mainly the OVA with the awesome Manga dub I got on VHS like 20 years ago, and when I found out 2 months ago there was a THIRD series by the same studio where they were all chibi AND it was on YouTube I was over the drat moon. Seriously I love that art style, score, everything) I enjoyed this a lot. I thought the crybaby title and theme was weird at first, but it all came together in the end. The art style was a bit hit or miss, generally hit though (this was the same guy who did Kaiba? I tapped out of that after that abysmal second episode. Christ). Also the running stuff came together really nicely. I was hoping that they'd do something different with the ending, cos you know it's a bit of a Debbie Downer, but it's good to have a whole contained Devilman anime from beginning to end (I've never seen the old show, so I don't know if they finished it, and why WAS that show in this show? That didn't make much sense thematically). I was surprised they didn't bring out Amon, but maybe that would be too messy. Loved that last fight! It was insane. I'm glad it was a bit more of a back and forth instead of a one shot kill in the manga. They really knocked the last few episodes out of the park, some really hard hitting stuff. Everything with Miki's family was loving awful and heartbreaking, Jesus. I was really hoping Miki would survive this time. I think they dropped the ball with Jinmen and Silene. The OVA did both those plot points and fights so much better. Also not sure how Ryo became a world famous super rich professor by the time he's like 18, but oh well. I also enjoyed him talking in English, made him seem more educated and worldy. Maybe they can do Devilman Lady next, and continue the story.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2018 20:02
|
|
