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I don't know if "unintentional" is the right word here.
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Jan 6, 2018 03:38
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Stylistically I adored this show but I'm not really used to a Yuasa project being this unrelentingly bleak.
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Jan 6, 2018 03:40
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taichara posted:I'm two episodes in and this is going to sound like a ridiculous question given the content of the rest of the show but is the family cat going to starve to death or similar? There's two different scenes in Ep. 02 of it scratching its empty bowl and I can deal with over the top human horror but not something like that. The cat dies a heroic death, and when it happens it's more surreal than grotesquely realistic. e: (much bigger spoilers than my answer above) honestly I kind of want a spin-off about DEVILMAN CAT Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Jan 6, 2018 |
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Jan 6, 2018 07:10
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Relin posted:sounds like some of you wish devilman crybaby was another kemonozume Kemonozume is the better show but that's not really much of a mark against Crybaby.
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Jan 6, 2018 07:31
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also Satan's grief being too late and totally inadequate is kind of the point, I think. Like Miki's heartfelt appeal to humanity and her subsequent death is treated with much more gravitas and hits home much more whereas the reveal that Ryo / Satan is talking to Akira's dismembered corpse at the end verges on being a visual gag. Akira was totally mistaken to put his faith in him as a friend, and the fate of humanity is frankly less our fault than just a matter of being caught in the crossfire of an uncaring God and a selfish beast. We're obviously imperfect and yet humanity is distinct in that we at least tried to be better, which is a theme I can absolutely get behind.
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Jan 6, 2018 07:43
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YggdrasilTM posted:Devilman (like a lot of nagai works) did many fresh and innovative things, 40 years ago... but it aged very very badly. i don't really believe in media "aging badly" like as a metaphor it sort of works for stuff like, old terribly racist cartoons or something where social norms have changed but even then it's shaky this is my first exposure to Devilman and I think it's a very simple, very raw story where people don't necessarily act realistically, but that's fine because it still manages to be emotionally powerful also it's kind of cool seeing the patient zero for certain concepts and visual themes that show up in tons of other manga/anime
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Jan 6, 2018 07:54
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drrockso20 posted:I completely disagree about that, honestly how Humanity's decline was shown completely destroyed my suspension of disbelief for the show, it's ridiculous that one athlete turning into a monster, no matter how horrid the results, would be enough to cause civilization to collapse so quickly and so viciously, even with the fact that the Demons had infiltrated at least several governments and militaries(which leads into another thing that annoys me, sure they explained the origin for demons, but they didn't explain at all how they got so organized in the modern day), it's the kind of writing only a nihilistic moron could come up with(if it's not obvious I honestly have a very low opinion of Go Nagai as both a writer and person, even if I am a huge Mazinger fan) Think about it this way: it's not just "one athlete turning into a monster." It's humanity living with monsters among them for years, probably suspecting, probably always looking away and telling themselves it isn't there, living in a constant state of fear and denial -- and then uncontrovertible proof is all it took to unleash a tidal wave. Also, remember that Ryo had been accumulating footage of attacks the whole time, so it's again less "one athlete" and more "oh by the way all of these unsolved murders and disappearances were committed by demons," combined with fearmongering from an organized cabal of evil shapeshifters in positions of power. Again, this show really doesn't reflect as badly as humanity as it seems at first glance -- although it does reflect quite poorly on God and I understand that's still an issue for you as well.
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Jan 6, 2018 07:59
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I mean at a bare minimum he used Earth as Satan's prison/exile, meaning he basically handed him an army in the form of the previously-wild demons and then either created humanity on top of that powder keg, or at the very least didn't intervene as Satan wiped us all out until it was too late. Plus all the usual problems of theodicy, of course. 
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Jan 6, 2018 08:24
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StarMinstrel posted:Quick derail: how are the Evangelion movies that were made recently? I think they are four of them, supposed to be a remake of the series? Are they good in any way? I'm always wary of remake, especially for something like Evangelion, which from what I understood had so much of it's atmosphere and themes born from the mess that was the production. I feared when hearing about the remakes a few years ago that they would clean it up in a calculated way that could remove the soul of the original serie. At the very minimum, they're fascinating. I can't tell you whether they're good because so much hinges on what happens on the 4th one and how it colors the events of the previous movies, but I'm hopeful. Watch the TV series first if you haven't, though.
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Jan 7, 2018 03:54
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PringleCreamEgg posted:Having seen this makes me wonder how Mazinger Z Z-Hen turned out, I should maybe watch that. I saw the first couple episodes but I ended up getting distracted or something. Don't remember. I'm not really too familiar with Go Nagai stuff, but it's easy to see his influences on everything else. Zetman, as well. Not that I was all that fond of it to begin with. There are probably other shows / comics like that too, and if anyone wants to suggest any I'm all ears.
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Jan 8, 2018 06:12
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Vedius Pollio posted:I get how people would actually be pretty bummed out by that, but I could not stop laughing at the back-and-forth in that scene. He changes his mind like, seven times. I thought it was a hilarious visual gag. oh hey, you're alive!
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Jan 9, 2018 01:46
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Calvin Coolposts posted:I really liked this show, it got me hyped as hell to reread the manga when it comes out this year. This is also the first Yuasa show I've ever seen and I really like his style, I'm definitely going to go check out his earlier work. Check out Kemonozume, it could almost be a weird Devilman spinoff in its own right.
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Jan 10, 2018 02:05
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Bust Rodd posted:I really genuinely enjoyed the ride, but people calling it some kind of masterpiece are using a rubric I guess I don’t have. i'm an atheist and don't even agree with the moral of the Book of Job but i'm still laughing my rear end off at these two statements together
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Jan 12, 2018 00:23
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Bust Rodd posted:If there’s some point I’m missing here I’d love to get filled in. okay so there are two points to the Book of Job one is that the reasons for suffering and the universe being the way it is are ultimately beyond our comprehension because we simply don't have the perspective to get the big picture the other is that Job persists in criticizing God even while maintaining his faith; his idiot friends insist that bad things only happen to those who deserve them and that Job must have hosed up somehow to earn God's wrath, but God comes down and explicitly says they're wrong, that Job was correct in saying that pain and suffering are inflicted even on the innocent, and that he committed no blasphemy by complaining about this, but nonetheless he's just a mortal dude and see point #1 it's a fantastic piece of literature and an important cultural touchstone for Jews and Christians with respect to reconciling faith in God with the reality of injustice and suffering (also, notably, Job lives a long, healthy, and happy life by the end) Devilman Crybaby deals with similar themes except that instead of attempting to apologize for God's behavior, it's more about apologizing for mankind's; we're basically trapped in a situation where cruelty and power and hunger is the easy way out, where it's only natural to live like a beast, but some people choose not to anyways -- basically prompting the question "if the scale we were measured on was already this biased towards selfishness and evil, what does it say about human nature that any of us managed to be good at all?" to make that point effectively it kind of has to end with "and then everyone dies" -- because the idea is that doing the right thing even if it does make you weak, even if it kills you, is noble and beautiful and gently caress God and nature for creating such an insidious acid test for us in the first place
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Jan 12, 2018 00:45
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my only exposure to Go Nagai before this was Dororon Enma-Kun which, uh, honestly didn't leave a great impression
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Jan 12, 2018 00:57
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Bust Rodd posted:I guess I disagree with your position on the ending. I’m not demanding everything adhere to “The Hero with 1,000 Faces” but Akira is basically the exact same person through all 10 episodes, then is punished and [spoilers]murdered[/spoilers], and Ryo still wins and gets everything they set out to achieve, but because everything was totally stacked in his favor from the beginning it doesn’t require him to grow or change. I also don’t read “He misses Akira” as growth or change because he’s clearly always cared about him and just had this deluded fantasy that they’d end up happily ever after. I actually agree with you with respect to Ryo not really experiencing much in the way of real growth. From what I understand Crybaby's version of the ending downplays Ryo / Satan's realization of what he's done and what it means compared to the manga, and expands on the last moments of a bunch of the human characters at the same time. I think Yuasa wanted to subtly shift the emphasis on what makes him a tragic character from "he realizes too late that he was wrong" to "his crippled emotional perspective leaves him miserable without even fully grasping why."
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Jan 12, 2018 01:10
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it's weirder than Devilman (which is also to say i wholeheartedly approve)
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Jan 12, 2018 01:53
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100 degrees Calcium posted:The donkey noises aren't even the weirdest way Yuasa has expressed masturbation. In Tatami Galaxy, masturbation is a cartoon cowboy just havin' a blast, riding his horse and firing twin six-shooters in the air. don't forget literally loving yourself in Kaiba
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Jan 16, 2018 20:37
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:unlike the version on Netflix, which... i guess doesn't? the netflix version absolutely has an English dub
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Jan 25, 2018 04:40
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DisDisDis posted:Get the Mine Fujiko lady to direct one god yes Wark Say posted:Sayo Yamamoto or Mari Okada? Sayo Yamamoto, for sure
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Jan 26, 2018 15:50
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Pigasus posted:Is there a translation of this anywhere? I'd love to read this! His post originally included a link to a partial translation but one of the things in it was the blogger saying exactly what Kokoro Wish just said lol e: here it is http://eendroid.tumblr.com/post/169685643529
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Feb 9, 2018 01:50
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You're mistaking power for correctness.
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Feb 15, 2018 05:40
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There's also an important distinction in that actual historical Valentinian Christianity (along with most of its close theological relatives, because there's no such thing as "Gnosticism" as a singular religion) doesn't posit the Demiurge as the true good God, just the creator of the material world, sometimes portrayed more as a pathetic creature mired in self-delusion than an evil tyrant. It's also kind of elitist (most people are incapable of true salvation) and still very renunciatory (the world is absolute garbage and no good comes of engaging with it.) Pop cultural "Gnosticism" is more of a mishmash of Enlightenment and Romantic ideas dancing around in the clothes of Christianity. Setting aside the greater Devilman continuity for a second, note that the condemnation of God in Crybaby is that he's "cold." This is not how a gnostic Christian would describe the demiurge, quite the opposite, this is how they would describe the true "good God" who is unimaginably remote and uninvolved, while in the mean time the Demiurge is a crazed narcissist and rapist. Similarly Satan's great tragedy is that he doesn't recognize himself as an emotional being, and the thing that makes Akira so special is that he sees this in Ryo even when Ryo himself does not. In some Gnostic mythologies, the serpent is a hero because it encourages humanity to recognize its own divine nature, although again they would probably understand this to mean something very different -- less about emotion and more about recognizing our own capacity for reason, for recognizing moral truth according to an absolute universal order hidden behind the messy illusion of material reality. This also kind of ties in to the argument going on in this thread right now, because Crybaby is waaay over on the Romantic side of things and trying to understand what its message is by utilitarian calculus of whether humanity did more evil or more good, or complaining that capital-G Good does not triumph and justice reign forever and therefore the series must be completely nihilistic is, at best, using the wrong framework to understand it (the former view being too Enlightenment to get the point, the latter too Christian.) (To clarify, believing in one of those other frameworks is a perfectly valid reason not to like the show, but they're a bad way to get what it's saying on its own terms.) Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Feb 16, 2018 |
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Feb 16, 2018 23:29
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in my admittedly amateur experience Jewish theology is a lot better at processing the possibility that God is kind of a jerk than Christianity is
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Feb 16, 2018 23:48
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DisDisDis posted:Is Devilman Crybaby Catholic or Protestant neither, but it dumps on Catholicism a lot harder
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Feb 16, 2018 23:52
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