Crawl .21: Stick a Fork In It

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl .21: Stick a Fork In It

«‹›87 »

Jen X: Sep 29, 2014; To bring light to the darkness, whether that darkness be ignorance, injustice, apathy, or stagnation.

tote up a bags posted:

Real men get bored of their dull equipment around level 12 and have 50% of their deaths in Shoals or Snake

# ? Aug 31, 2018 13:56

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 4, 2024 01:17

FulsomFrank: Sep 11, 2005; Hard on for love

Teal posted:

Man and I thought I must be completely retarded when most of my deaths are in D

I'm terrified what amount of mine are.

I think my deaths these days are typically in Zigs, Elf:3, Bailey and maybe Dis, Tart, or Coc. Haven't lost a character in the Tomb in a while but it's because I only ever roll in with Silence and maybe Lich castable because the place loving sucks.

# ? Aug 31, 2018 14:58

goatsestretchgoals: Jun 4, 2011

I'm getting sucked back in and I'm pretty sure I'm about to splat another FoAK.

# ? Sep 1, 2018 22:31

pathetic little tramp: Dec 12, 2005; by Hillary Clinton's assassins; Fallen Rib

Have azure jellies always been a cold based attack? Man, going into the slime pit and thinking "I should trade out my only source of rC for the amulet of vitality" ended up being one hell of a bad decision.

# ? Sep 1, 2018 22:44

Serephina: Nov 8, 2005; 恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー

Basically since forever, yea. rCorr, Mr are mandatory, with rC and rN being optional for the specialist jellies.

....aaaand I just looked that up, rN doesn't help v death oozes (rot) at all. Wonder if it ever did?

# ? Sep 2, 2018 04:04

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Doesn't look like it. AC is the defense against; 2 or less damage only has it proc 5% of the time instead of the normal 33%. It's a bit difficult with the base 32 attack that death ooze has but they aren't very durable.

# ? Sep 3, 2018 02:49

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Just leaving a status update that there's nothing this weekend for Gooncrawl. I started work re-adding Lava Orcs but they had about as many assorted removal patches as Djinni so I'm taking it slow to make sure I don't screw up anything from 4 year old code.

# ? Sep 3, 2018 20:43

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Trying to do TrFi but I wonder if it's not meant to be. Of the last 10, 5 have died on D2 (kind of):
- D2 walk into chamber, Ijyb drinks potion of invisibility and zaps with with wand of acid twice, dead
- D2 lead adder to choke point, miss them 23 times in a row
- D2 ice beast standing by stairs, run back up it follows and freezes to death. Ice beast on D2.
- D2 Gnoll with +5 Halberd
- D2 3 orc wizards in stair room, chain confused, dead
- Bonus, D2 shafted to D5 next to a two-headed ogre, dead

# ? Sep 6, 2018 04:20

Hyedum: Jun 12, 2010

Scaramouche posted:

- D2 Gnoll with +5 Halberd

The Reckoner

# ? Sep 6, 2018 06:38

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Scaramouche posted:

- D2 Gnoll with +5 Halberd

Ah, gnolls, the gnomes of Crawl.

# ? Sep 6, 2018 07:05

Yngwie Mangosteen: Aug 23, 2007

Where's gooncrawl being hosted? I haven't played in years and want to play the actually fun version that still has features.

# ? Sep 6, 2018 07:42

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Captain Monkey posted:

Where's gooncrawl being hosted? I haven't played in years and want to play the actually fun version that still has features.

You can get a local download, there's a link on the previous page. Berotato is supposed to be hosting it for webtiles play, but they still haven't re-enabled experimental branches after the tournament ended.

Edit:

Metoron posted:

Alright I finished my compile of the latest windows version, it's just only windows because I don't have a mac to compile with.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f38xklealypl0ro/gooncrawl-win64-tiles-26-08-18.zip?dl=1

# ? Sep 6, 2018 08:06

FulsomFrank: Sep 11, 2005; Hard on for love

Metoron posted:

Alright I finished my compile of the latest windows version, it's just only windows because I don't have a mac to compile with.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f38xklealypl0ro/gooncrawl-win64-tiles-26-08-18.zip?dl=1

Missed this! Thanks for the effort and to PMush for pointing it out.

As someone who plays almost exclusively offline, a fresh compiled version of GoonCrawl is a godsend. Time for me to learn how.

# ? Sep 6, 2018 14:49

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

PMush Perfect posted:

You can get a local download, there's a link on the previous page. Berotato is supposed to be hosting it for webtiles play, but they still haven't re-enabled experimental branches after the tournament ended.

Also on CPO (and up to date right now) if you don't mind connecting to Australia.

# ? Sep 6, 2018 17:17

FulsomFrank: Sep 11, 2005; Hard on for love

Not sure if the game has changed or if I forgot how goddam difficult Djinn are to get off the ground.

VVVV D'oh

FulsomFrank fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Sep 7, 2018

# ? Sep 7, 2018 14:24

Hyedum: Jun 12, 2010

FulsomFrank posted:

Not sure if the game has changed or if I forgot how goddam difficult Djinn are to get off the ground.

But they're always off the ground.

# ? Sep 7, 2018 20:23

Toadsmash: Jun 10, 2009; Dave Tate's downsy face approves.

They never did get the rest of the tournament games uploaded to Akrasiac stats. Sadness.

# ? Sep 7, 2018 22:53

Teal: Feb 25, 2013; by Nyc_Tattoo

We need to pony up for our own gooncrawl webtiles server and tournament with Nemelex and Hammers.

# ? Sep 8, 2018 17:52

Hyedum: Jun 12, 2010

Teal posted:

We need to pony up for our own gooncrawl webtiles server and tournament with Nemelex and Hammers.

Have the only banner be for getting Yiuf out in one piece with zero runes.

# ? Sep 8, 2018 18:52

Tollymain: Jul 9, 2010; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Hyedum posted:

Have the only banner be for getting Yiuf out in one piece with zero runes.

how is this possible if hes the sixteenth rune tho

# ? Sep 9, 2018 08:48

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Gooncrawl update:
-Lava Orcs have been re-added. How could you give your own fork the spicy orc?
-Fixed an if statement that was giving every species the Flight ability. Whoops!

# ? Sep 9, 2018 13:39

Teal: Feb 25, 2013; by Nyc_Tattoo

Floodkiller posted:

Gooncrawl update:
-Lava Orcs have been re-added. How could you give your own fork the spicy orc?
-Fixed an if statement that was giving every species the Flight ability. Whoops!

Man this makes me think about how Flying is kind of a bad game design and might probably be reworked to be more meaningful/fun but I'm also kind of drunk right now and haven't had the time to play in months (I still closely follow the thread because it's slow and kinda interesting all the time) so feel free to disregard me but

I just feel like you wouldn't go wrong with Flying having a bit of a meaningful tactical combat effect besides you getting obliterated by Airstrikes; maybe EV bonus for an AC malus or an EV bonus with a chance to lose flying and take damage/confusion if you get smacked out of the air by someone successfully. I dunno, something/anything.

# ? Sep 9, 2018 18:58

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

Just my IMO but I think either flight and swiftness should be combined, or flight should actually let you ignore traps.

# ? Sep 9, 2018 19:01

Teal: Feb 25, 2013; by Nyc_Tattoo

IronicDongz posted:

Just my IMO but I think either flight and swiftness should be combined, or flight should actually let you ignore traps.

If it just ignores traps then it becomes even more of a must have non-combat-utility that you absolutely want SOME source of, but a limited supply will mostly just suffice. It's a very Got Some -> X, Don't Have Some -> No X for you issue. Comboing it with Swiftnes would be great except one detail; it'd piss of Chei and he's the best snail waifu so I can't have any of that.

# ? Sep 9, 2018 19:33

Metoron: Jun 5, 2006; Hurm.

A new update, a new compile.

Gooncrawl Windows Version 09/09/18

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qiwuwcf16rz1lw8/gooncrawl-win64-tiles-09-09-18.zip?dl=1

# ? Sep 9, 2018 21:54

I am Otis: Sep 22, 2003

# ? Sep 10, 2018 00:30

nerve: Jan 2, 2011; SKA SUCKS

Floodkiller posted:

Gooncrawl update:
-Lava Orcs have been re-added. How could you give your own fork the spicy orc?
-Fixed an if statement that was giving every species the Flight ability. Whoops!

Metoron posted:

A new update, a new compile.

Gooncrawl Windows Version 09/09/18

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qiwuwcf16rz1lw8/gooncrawl-win64-tiles-09-09-18.zip?dl=1

thanks!

# ? Sep 10, 2018 00:43

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; BAAAAAAAAAAAA

On flight, I'm not sure if it's still in and can't check right now, but can we give evocable tengu flight the ability to be shut off manually before clvl 14 when it becomes permaflight? I've had to sit there and stall a few times so it would wear off and I could renew it before taking on some challenge seeing as it buffs the birds quite a bit and I don't want it wearing off in battle/over water

# ? Sep 10, 2018 08:20

icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

Is it even possible to win Zig Sprint without Qazlal? The closest it seems you can get is playing FE with Vehumet and racing to get ignition or fire storm castable as soon as possible, and then you die when you get pan lords. It seems just not possible to get damage to ramp up as fast as the enemies do

# ? Sep 11, 2018 01:17

Mortimer Knag: Nov 23, 2007

Zarick posted:

What are some good race/class/god combos for someone just getting back into the game that aren't just a boring MiFi of Okawaru?

Scaramouche posted:

Trying to do TrFi but I wonder if it's not meant to be. Of the last 10, 5 have died on D2 (kind of):

The easiest combo in the game is generally a troll monk worshipping yred. It's not too exciting but enslaving things and pain mirror is a lot more fun than just buffing up, you grow to love your few top tier pets (And a certain flayed ghost or two) and as a monk you always use claws and get drain life early enough for it to be great. Troll fighter is a waste.

# ? Sep 11, 2018 06:09

RPATDO_LAMD: Mar 22, 2013; 🐘🪠🍆

Monk has absolutely no advantage over fighter other than the eventual piety thing. In old versions it used to make sense because you started with a whopping 4 unarmed skill, but now that they get to choose weapons their starting skill was reduced and they're just "fighter/gladiator but worse in every way until you reach temple".

# ? Sep 11, 2018 08:07

Tollymain: Jul 9, 2010; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

take an earlier altar

# ? Sep 11, 2018 08:18

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

baby delivery truck posted:

The easiest combo in the game is generally a troll monk worshipping yred. It's not too exciting but enslaving things and pain mirror is a lot more fun than just buffing up, you grow to love your few top tier pets (And a certain flayed ghost or two) and as a monk you always use claws and get drain life early enough for it to be great. Troll fighter is a waste.

Ha ha! If I was playing optimal classes that might be the case but I'm tired of blitzing through MiFis and the like so I'm currently trying to get everything else -Fi. That said the post was more an ironic commentary on how weird the spawns are D2-onward now, which might have always been the case, but I'm really noticing more with the less overpowered combos. Like a MiFi might not even hesitate at 4 gnolls on D2 but an HaFi really has to stop and think.

# ? Sep 12, 2018 01:32

Hyedum: Jun 12, 2010

Scaramouche posted:

Ha ha! If I was playing optimal classes that might be the case but I'm tired of blitzing through MiFis and the like so I'm currently trying to get everything else -Fi. That said the post was more an ironic commentary on how weird the spawns are D2-onward now, which might have always been the case, but I'm really noticing more with the less overpowered combos. Like a MiFi might not even hesitate at 4 gnolls on D2 but an HaFi really has to stop and think.

To add to this, I've really been noticing more OOD monsters ever since the commit that removed monster spawning (and sleeping enemies upon entering a floor). I'm not sure if this was the specific commit that caused it to happen, but it was around this time when I noticed it happening way more often. Yesterday I saw a death knight chillin' on d6 just waiting to gently caress me up and I just stared at my screen for a while.

# ? Sep 12, 2018 03:34

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Hyedum posted:

To add to this, I've really been noticing more OOD monsters ever since the commit that removed monster spawning (and sleeping enemies upon entering a floor). I'm not sure if this was the specific commit that caused it to happen, but it was around this time when I noticed it happening way more often. Yesterday I saw a death knight chillin' on d6 just waiting to gently caress me up and I just stared at my screen for a while.

Where did you see the death knight in particular? Was it in or around a suspicous grid of shapes?

# ? Sep 12, 2018 12:07

Hyedum: Jun 12, 2010

Floodkiller posted:

Where did you see the death knight in particular? Was it in or around a suspicous grid of shapes?

I don't recall seeing anything that resembled a vault, but maybe I just wasn't paying close enough attention.

# ? Sep 12, 2018 13:15

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

I've seen that too, multiple times. Sometimes just random seeming, other times with appropriate other guys who might have wandered out of a vault (e.g. skele warriors, hungry ghosts, etc)

# ? Sep 12, 2018 17:15

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

DEPTH WORDS :siren:

Due to the removal of monster spawning, OODs can no longer be generated after level gen. During level gen, D:1 cannot have out of depth non-vault monsters, and D:2 has a 25% chance to avoid a roll for each monster. From then on, it is a 14% chance any specific monster can spawn as OOD.

code:

// The OOD fuzz roll is not applied on D:1, and is applied slightly less
    // often (0.75*0.14) on D:2. All other levels have a straight 14% chance of
    // moderate OOD fuzz for each monster at level generation.
    if (place.branch == BRANCH_DUNGEON
        && (place.depth == 1
            || place.depth == 2 && one_chance_in(4)))
    {
        return;
    }
if (x_chance_in_y(14, 100))
    {...

For the choosing of the monster, the 'fuzz' roll determines how far out of depth the monster is (from 1 to 5 levels deeper than normal). If the fuzz ends up being 0 or lower, it ignores the OOD roll. For examples, you have a 38% chance of any OOD monster being +1 level OOD, and 2.2% chance of any monster being +5 levels OOD.

code:

const int fuzzspan = 5;
        const int fuzz = max(0, random_range(-fuzzspan, fuzzspan, 2));

        // Quite bizarre logic: why should we fail in >50% cases here?
        if (fuzz)
        {
            place.depth += fuzz;
            dprf(DIAG_MONPLACE, "Monster level fuzz: %d (old: %s, new: %s)",
                 fuzz, old_place.describe().c_str(), place.describe().c_str());
        }

If the OOD check survived all the rolls so far to generate, it determines the new level of monster danger and pulls from the table in this file based on the branch you are in. The first number in each set of braces is the monster's lowest depth, and the second number is the highest depth. It will then pick any monster whose range contains that level, based on the third number's pick chance and the likelihood of being included as a chance to be picked using the scale type in the fourth spot:

code:

    FLAT, // full chance throughout the range
    SEMI, // 50% chance at range ends, 100% in the middle
    PEAK, // 0% chance just outside range ends, 100% in the middle, range
          // ends typically get ~20% or more
    RISE, // linearly from near-zero to 100%, increasing with depth
    FALL, // linearly from 100% at the start to near-zero

Working with death knights:
{ 11, 21, 192, PEAK, MONS_DEATH_KNIGHT },

They can start spawning at depth 11, and stop spawning after depth 21. They use the peak scale, meaning they start at about 20% at depth 11, rise to 100% chance if included in pick chances at depth 16, and drop down again to about 20% at depth 21. If selected to be in the range of monsters picked, they have a weight of 192 (compare to Orc Warrior with a weight of 825 if picked at the same depth). I don't really want to dive into the random picker code and melt my mind any further to figure out the likelihood at this rate.

In other words, if the level generated a death knight on D:6: it beat a 14% chance to generate on any given monster, a 2.2% chance to be rolled at +5 to even have a chance to be included, about a 20% chance to get chosen as part of the pool at depth 11, and beat much more common spawns for a depth 11 monster. If you got one naturally, you just had a bad day.

On the other hand, vaults work differently: they have slots to generate specific monsters (in order to allow players to theme vaults), as well as three additional defaults that use the mon-pick-data file:

code:

Monsters
--------
 0 - normal monster
 9 - +5 depth monster
 8 - (+2) * 2 depth monster (aargh!).

9 is essentially already taking that 2.2%*14%*whatever chance and skipping straight to "generate a big rear end fucker". 8 is even worse at any level past D:3 and quickly jumps to the ends of the charts. Taking death knights on D:6 again, a death knight could spawn on any 9 in a vault at the same chances as the level gen code after skipping past the chance to OOD and fuzz rolls, which is already better odds than it had before. On an 8 spawn (so (6+2)*2 = 16), it is now in the perfect spawn range to have 100% chance to be included for a pick and only has to beat the weight roll against other depth 16 monsters.

In summary, if you see a big rear end fucker on a given level that seems way out of place, it's almost assuredly a vault and not the level gen spawns. Thus, give me vault names when you die and I can relocate or purge them (I plan on doing something to the_grid this weekend).

Floodkiller fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Sep 12, 2018

# ? Sep 12, 2018 22:12

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Well that shut me up! I unfortunately cleared my files when I got the new version so I don't have logs any more but I'll keep an eye out. Thanks for that deep dive and actually addressing my random grumbling, it's a weird feeling this responsiveness!

As an fyi for anyone else I believe vaults generated on the level show up in the log file near the end of the line if you want to report one

# ? Sep 13, 2018 17:08

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 4, 2024 01:17

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

GoonCrawl is Good, and Floodkiller is Good too.

Yo, FK, set up a ko-fi or something.

# ? Sep 13, 2018 18:19

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl .21: Stick a Fork In It

«‹›87 »