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Yer Burnt posted:This is the best season of Big Brother in a long while, and that all would make better sense to us if you were recapping the live feeds I mean, I'm not watching so I don't know what's REALLY happening but the narrative on that one episode I watched seemed to suggest Omarosa's only real ally was Metta and she went and put him on the block to go home. James and Mark both clearly said "we can't trust her" and Omarosa clearly took a big and public shot at the four person alliance and all four stayed in the house. That sure seems like a disastrous HOH from my one episode watching perspective. Although it seems like Omarosa might be in position to be a goat. But again, I don't know what's really happening on feeds. Granted Omarosa had no direct control over that overpowered POV or Brandi self destructing. But she did seem to antagonize Brandi and CO and she could have just not nominated Metta and put up the other two in that four. So it really seems like she came out of that HOH worse for wear. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Feb 20, 2018 |
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Feb 20, 2018 20:11
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I don't have the care to sit through an entire season of civilian Big Brother anymore but the pace of this has been really good and it's great that they cast actual superfans of the show. I'm shocked Brandi is more in her element on this version than in the UK version, where she got paid to sit around and drink wine all day/night and was somehow not at all entertaining. The future looks bright for multiple seasons; it's done really well against the Olympics and they have a deep, deep well of proven US housemates from the UK version for this format. A little shocked they didn't cast Perez Hilton for this after his ratings-breaking stint on BBUK but I'm assuming they didn't want too much manufactured drama in the first season – the Omarosa rehab has seemed pretty organic but as if everyone's in on it at the same time.
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Feb 21, 2018 00:29
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Ultimately I think there's just too much unearned arrogance in a Celebrity edition for me. I mean, there's always a fair amount of that in any cast but there's also a lot of "what will you put up with for this opportunity." As far as I can tell the Celebrities got a shortened time, a ton of money, their own beds, no Have Nots, no sequestered Jury, lots of booze, and two of them still quit. I guess ultimately there's a basic level of torture that draws me to BB. That or it just feels like a cast full of Frankies and Pauls.
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Feb 21, 2018 00:48
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I agree on the torture thing on principle (my favourite BB thing is when they gave half the house cattle prods on one of the older UK seasons) but I really like this season after having sworn off the show a couple years ago. I think it's a testament to the quality of this season that I often forget they're celebrities while watching it. It very much feels like they managed to find a group of celebs that are mostly fans, and also fit the usual casting choices they'd normally make for a non-celeb season. Going back to the torture thing, nothing is more torturous on BB than the boredom and isolation, which this season still has. I think we underestimate or forget they have practically nothing to do in there but occasionally have to hold onto a thing for fourteen hours while they shoot honey at you. Even for three weeks that's crushing.
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Feb 21, 2018 05:49
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I don't think Metta quit because he's got millions of dollars and didn't want to lower himself to staying in the Big Brother house. He quit because he is bona fide weird, he was literally climbing over the fences and running through the CBS lots. That's probably in part why they cast him, his other shenanigans that don't involve incessantly trying to quit got a lot of positive airtime on the show.
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Feb 21, 2018 16:58
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Fast Luck posted:I don't think Metta quit because he's got millions of dollars and didn't want to lower himself to staying in the Big Brother house. He quit because he is bona fide weird, he was literally climbing over the fences and running through the CBS lots. That's probably in part why they cast him, his other shenanigans that don't involve incessantly trying to quit got a lot of positive airtime on the show. Kind of crazy considering that hes a dude that went into the stands during one of his NBA games and punched out a random dude that he thought threw a soda at him (but didn't)
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Feb 21, 2018 17:38
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STAC Goat posted:Ultimately I think there's just too much unearned arrogance in a Celebrity edition for me. I mean, there's always a fair amount of that in any cast but there's also a lot of "what will you put up with for this opportunity." As far as I can tell the Celebrities got a shortened time, a ton of money, their own beds, no Have Nots, no sequestered Jury, lots of booze, and two of them still quit. I don't think you're wrong at all, there clearly seems to be a mix of hardcore fans who are in it to play and then a few people they signed up to pad the roster who they imagined would be quick to get cut for the gamers to be there at the end. Of the 4 evictions so far, 2 of them were just people wanting to go home. Shannon getting tossed was great, but it really lost a lot of the drama when it got drug out for a week because of the breast milk. I don't blame them too much. For a first time trial, there were plenty of bugs to work out, especially with personalities, scheduling and the calendar.
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Feb 21, 2018 17:59
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Thinking about it more I think maybe part of it is that while I get why a lot of people really like the pace of this season and how it puts the game into FF, I think I'm just the opposite fan. My favorite part of a BB season is those first few weeks when there's a million people and relationships and alliances falling apart and forming every day and they have nothing to do but drive each other crazy. I tend to zone out towards the end when everything speeds up and its down to a half dozen people. So I get why this is working for people, but I also think I get why it doesn't appeal to me. But I also admit to a lifelong annoyance/resentment to celebrity/paparazzi culture and I think that's a big part of it. Fast Luck posted:I don't think Metta quit because he's got millions of dollars and didn't want to lower himself to staying in the Big Brother house. He quit because he is bona fide weird, he was literally climbing over the fences and running through the CBS lots. That's probably in part why they cast him, his other shenanigans that don't involve incessantly trying to quit got a lot of positive airtime on the show. I am not knocking Metta. Full disclosure. I am roughly the same age as Metta, I drat near went to the same high school as him, I watched him play ball in Washington Heights and the Bronx (and against my school), even met him in passing a few times (and he was always a cool dude), and he made me a lifelong St. John's fan. So there was a reason I said at the start of this he was the one reason I was even considering watching. He's a bit of a childhood... hero? Way better than me contemporary? I don't know. I just have always been interested in the guy. Just to be clear, I'm not judging the individuals. Following Artest/Metta's career I get why the BB House might not have been a great place for him and might have been driving him crazy. And as I understanding it Rudy quit because she missed her newborn? I don't think BB is a major obligation and those are drat good reasons to want out. I just think that while I don't feel like they should have a moral obligation to the game/tv show in the big picture, I kinda need a little of that built into my enjoyment. For whatever that says about me. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Feb 21, 2018 |
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Feb 21, 2018 21:55
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Rudy was bad casting because she was breastfeeding a one-year-old, has been on the reality circuit before, isn't that exiciting, and clearly was only there for the paycheck. She did start to play some before she quit, which was because apparently she wasn't producing as much milk since being in the house. Solid reason to leave if true, it's so the kid can keep eating, but the fact that she had to keep pumping in the house for a baby not yet weaned off breast milk is something that should have been known to casting and should've led them to pick someone else. Dumb.
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Feb 21, 2018 22:05
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The Kid is a year old, so I'm not sure casting necessarily thought of that.* *Not a judgement, raise your kid how you want but they really played it up like this was an emergency and while I'm not a Doctor, it just seems strange to me.
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Feb 21, 2018 22:51
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It definitely would have come up, since they had to plan for her to use a breast pump and stuff in the house.
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Feb 21, 2018 23:27
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give the kid some gerbers
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Feb 22, 2018 01:54
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Well Ross is a confirmed garbage man and the editing team at CBS deserves kudos for exposing him. What kind of monster eats only chicken breasts and hates thighs?
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Feb 22, 2018 02:15
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BhindiBhaji Boogie posted:Well Ross is a confirmed garbage man and the editing team at CBS deserves kudos for exposing him. What kind of monster eats only chicken breasts and hates thighs? His nutritionist probably tells him to eat chicken breast and he (doesn't) listen
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Feb 22, 2018 07:01
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Keshia is kind of a weird circumstance, there's little chance a single mother of a young baby would probably have been cast in a normal season. She came on because it was going to be a short season, so there's some unique circumstances there. From what I understand, they used a different casting agent for this, supposedly the person who does Dancing with the Stars. I'm guessing because they had more celeb contacts.
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Feb 22, 2018 17:51
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Yep. The original casting crew would have been useless for this as their set of skills and contacts would have been completely different (notice the number of models, dancers and would be actors that get cast every year). Also remember how like 3 different women on 3 different seasons knew each other through their agency or whatever.
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Feb 22, 2018 19:11
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I think this has been the best BB season in years. The most surprising thing has been how quickly everyone fell into the usual BB rhythms, and how fast the gameplay adapted to the shortened schedule. I know it's not possible given how much time it takes up on the schedule but having shorter seasons might be a good idea in the future (not this short mind you, but still). I hope this inspires them to do another all-stars season but just shorten it to improve the chances of having players available. I also hope they invite Shannon back to play a regular season. Her gameplay is a little shaky (basically the Celeb BB version of Vanessa) but she's extremely likable and a clear superfan. As for who's left, I have no idea how it'll turn out given the change in format for the finale. Mark would be the best bet to take to the final 2 (my guess is Omarosa's "girl power" push this season would make HGs hesitant to take Marissa even though she could be painted as a floater), but the only way I see Ross or Ariadna sitting in the final 2 is if either one of them wins it. There's no way the other 3 would take them to the final 2. Best in game is probably Ariadna, too. Ross has done a great job running the house but he's painted a big target on his back and has had to save himself at least twice. Ari adapted quickly to the game and has put herself in a great position. She was clearly the bigger threat on the block against Brandi and yet no one considered taking her out for a second. She's the most deserving winner, but I'd be happy if Ross won too. Omarosa's gameplay has been largely poo poo outside of comps, she's just been smart enough to lay low and win when she needs to.
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Feb 24, 2018 05:46
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I was dreading Celebrity Big Brother, but I agree that this has been the best season in ages. It was all game, all the time, and the cast were mostly self-aware enough to keep any odious character traits at bay. Regular Big Brother is going to seem so boring given how drawn out it will be in comparison.
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Feb 26, 2018 01:19
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I hate bitter juries.
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Feb 26, 2018 04:09
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I don't like "bitter juries" but I also do think there ought to occasionally be consequences for sizable betrayals and that players who were emotionally hurt shouldn't be compelled to throw that out the window and vote robotically. Marissa was not much of a player and Ross should have won, but that's probably why they tossed Ross the fan favorite, so in a future CBB season everyone wouldn't be too afraid to play.
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Feb 26, 2018 04:22
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Fast Luck posted:I don't like "bitter juries" but I also do think there ought to occasionally be consequences for sizable betrayals and that players who were emotionally hurt shouldn't be compelled to throw that out the window and vote robotically. Some would call that "Jury Management." edit: I know very little about this season but I know all the really vile parts of the BB fanbase loved this season but hated Marissa intensely so it makes me laugh to hear she won. I have no idea if she deserved it or not.
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Feb 26, 2018 04:27
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Ross did about as much jury management as is possible while still playing to win. He had one of the best games in the history of the show, but people’s egos got in the way. Quicker seasons are definitely better. It will be tough going back to the three month slog. Edit: Marissa was fine, but she was a floater.
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Feb 26, 2018 04:34
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Jury was bitter as hell because they had different morals from what should be applied to voting for a winner of Big Brother (where lying is like step one). CBB was much better than the last two years of this show though.
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Feb 26, 2018 04:58
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I don’t think jury management is possible anymore, at least if the past few frustrating years of CBS reality shows is anything to go by. Your best bet is to be a friendly floater (or find a bunch of hidden immunity idols and then cry about being in the military).
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Feb 26, 2018 06:06
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Derrick basically mastered Jury Management and basically sparked a whole new phrase into the reality show lexicon of "Let Death Take You". Meanwhile Paul is basically BB's answer to Russell in terms of bad Jury Management and while neither Nicole nor Josh were exactly masters at it they both did a much better job mending bad relationships and showing other players respect while Paul just burned everything down and berated people on their way out the door. Steve was more of the "friendly floater" but I mean, that speaks directly to Jury Management in a lot of ways where he went out of his way not to burn people (arguably too far to the point of being a "floater" for the first half of the game, but he did have a messy Double Eviction HOH that he managed through and got the votes of all the people he betrayed). I'd also argue that Liz would have had a stronger case against him if she had done better Jury Management but she allowed herself to be defined by her sister and Austin so didn't get any respect despite the fact that she had actually won a bunch and made a number of big moves. Like, I'm not saying anything about this season. I have no idea what Marissa and Ross did besides broad notes about them seeming to "play the middle" most of the season between Ari/Grande and Mark/Other Guy. I also think this wasn't really comparable to a BB season since it was so short and there was no sequestered Jury so the mechanics of "management" are way, way different. On a practical level I assume Ross would have had a harder time with this than on a regular season because not only was everything so raw and soon after his betrayals but most of the Jurors were able to go home and find out whatever he said or did, which we haven't had on BB since BB3's Danielle's "bitter jury" (and that's a good case where I absolutely think Dani SHOULD have won and WOULD have won if the Jury had been sequestered, but ultimately she lost the game she played because she pissed people off). STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Feb 26, 2018 |
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Feb 26, 2018 06:18
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Ross could have owned up to his lies/backstabbing a bit more during jury questioning. So yeah, it was bad jury management. I'm fine with the result despite Marissa not winning anything but the last competition.
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Feb 26, 2018 06:26
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That was vague vibe from the little I saw. Ross seemed to be playing a very snakey game and that's tough. You usually have to come clean on that to get the Jury vote and like, Nicole did and Andy to a lesser extent. While Paul refused to do it twice and his jury scores show the result. But Ross definitely would have had a harder time in theory since everything would have been more raw and people would have seen the truth. But that's a big reason why he should have come clean if he didn't. Most of them were gonna know your sins so you might as well lay them out there and own them.
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Feb 26, 2018 06:31
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Some (like Shannon) were mad at Ross for going out of his way to lie to or about them unnecessarily. And much of what he probably thinks is his charm, comes off as smarmy. Funny part to me: Omarosa lost and will be featured on The Talk the following day; Marissa won and I wonder if even RHAP is going to interview her to discuss her brilliant strategic moves and gameplay. And between the two of them the discussion would be: Rob Cesternino: So like you know like tell us about your like strategy and like, like, how you like got to the like end. Marissa: Like, I like had to like get the like other players to like, like me. Binary Logic fucked around with this message at 13:32 on Feb 26, 2018 |
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Feb 26, 2018 11:41
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Ross coated his words with honey as people walked out the door. He was a good player, but his jury management was poo poo and he deserved to lose. Marissa is a very underwhelming winner, though. She didn't do anything of value.
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Feb 26, 2018 11:43
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I don't think jury management is a thing anymore. Most jury members are hypocrites who are outraged that someone did to them what they did to others, and vote for the person who fell rear end backwards into the finale, and that player pretends that they were executing a masterful strategy all season long when they didn't even think of how they would win until the final 5.
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Feb 26, 2018 13:37
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the actual winner of this show has been meaningless since at least season 14.
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Feb 26, 2018 20:49
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TyrantWD posted:I don't think jury management is a thing anymore. Most jury members are hypocrites who are outraged that someone did to them what they did to others, and vote for the person who fell rear end backwards into the finale, and that player pretends that they were executing a masterful strategy all season long when they didn't even think of how they would win until the final 5. Paul needlessly burned the juries on both of his seasons and refused to own up to his actions when questioned. You can't just say Jury Management doesn't exist when there are multiple examples in recent seasons pointing to the fact that it very much does. We can proclaim JM is dead when we have multiple consecutive seasons where someone does everything right and loses to someone completely undeserving. Paul ain't that person by a long shot.
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Feb 26, 2018 21:31
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As much as I believe strongly in "Jury Management" and always get into these debates I also kind of think they're pointless because a lot of the time it comes down to the fact that some fans think Player X should have won and played the best game and no amount of Jury Management talk will dissuade them. So there's definitely people who think that it doesn't matter how many times Paul berated someone, lied to them needlessly, sabotaged their games, or bullied and made their lives miserable... if he made the best "strategic" moves some fans will say he deserves to win regardless of what the Jury says. I personally think that's just choosing to ignore part of the game that's inconvenient to a preferred type of player, but after 20 years of Survivor and Big Brother no one's mind is really going to change on that, I don't think. If given a chance Paul would probably play a 3rd game the exact same way and keep saying he just needs a cast who "respects the game" enough to leave feelings at the door. Its a philosophy at this stage. In the end enjoy the game as its played and if you don't like that the jury decides the winner, then don't invest in the winner. Its the only real option.
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Feb 26, 2018 21:53
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I really only have a problem with bitter juries when they're populated by people who spend a whole season talking up how they're all about respecting big game moves and how much they hate floaters.
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Feb 27, 2018 02:07
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Could Ross have managed the Jury better? Possibly but I don't know how. Keshia basically voided Ross's first HOH by wanting to go home for health reasons and still voted against him. Chuck was the very first eviction, so how do you even try and predict that with 3 weeks to go? Shannon and Omarosa as self proclaimed superfans were never going to vote for him because they never dreamed that they'd enter the house and get outplayed themselves. Omarosa straight up told Ross as she went out the door that she thought he played one of the best games ever and then voted against. Ari wanted to take him to a final two and then voted against him probably because Marissa took him instead of her. James said he changed his vote based on the Q&A and "playing a clean game" was his brand. Except he only played a "clean" game in the sense that he took the deals offered to him, not that he tried to make any. I have nothing to back this up but I do wonder what would have happened if they told Ross he was America's favorite house guest BEFORE voting though.
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Feb 27, 2018 18:27
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Bobfromsales posted:the actual winner of this show has been meaningless since at least season 14. What do you mean? Because  at Ginamarie deserving to win over Andy and Cody over Derrick.
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Feb 27, 2018 18:29
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But it would also imply I finally have an ally that Liz got robbed! Kidding. Mostly.
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Feb 27, 2018 19:27
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Hot take: Framing the result as a "bitter jury" is not quite right. On Day 1 the women realized they outnumbered the men in the house, made a "Girls Alliance" and Omarosa stated that they would ensure a woman wins. They had that grouping and wisely allowed Ross in, pretending that he was "one of the girls" and used him to advance their agenda. They carried out that initial plan, and it paid off. (Of course the flaw with this theory is, 'why didn't Marissa take Ari to final 2 thus guaranteeing a woman, an original alliance member, would have to win) Binary Logic fucked around with this message at 12:34 on Feb 28, 2018 |
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Feb 28, 2018 12:31
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Ross managed the jury about as well as you can manage a jury that gets to go home and watch the episodes back before the finale.
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Mar 2, 2018 00:15
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Eh. Not knowing specifics about Ross and this Jury the thing thing that bothers me about that argument is that Jury Management doesn't happen when they're in the Jury, it happens before they get evicted. Whether they find out you lied to them from the show or other jurors its still about doing what you can to minimize the anger and sense of betrayal about that. If you run your game on making people feel real emotional trust with you then its going to get bloody when you burn them. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Mar 2, 2018 |
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Mar 2, 2018 00:58
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