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Alternative way to look at it. If inability to stop a coup is considered a dishonor, then surely one can regain their honor by throwing their own coup. If they didn't want to be dishonored, clearly they could have stopped the coup against the coup. Fair game both ways. Though, to that point, you're not redeemed till your coup is actually SUCCESSFUL. Making you the villain up to the point you regain control again. Then you're the honorable one retroactively. If none of this made sense that's because honor rules inherently don't make sense. Vendetta rules can get out of hand, but they at least have an internal logic.
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Jan 23, 2018 20:18
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the only major part that the article doesn't take into account that i would have been interested in seeing a commentary on is corvo's upward mobility into the elite classes to begin with. that was not supposed to be something that really happened precisely due to the understanding that gentlemen were literally better classes of human due to their inward resources of honor and their physical superiority (remember, this is a time when the average aristocrat was 4 to 5 inches taller than the average working person). corvo became a noble through his own merit and swordsmanship, but he's not from around Dunwall. he doesn't have a history, no breeding to suggest that he is in fact one of those literally better classes of human. the Loyalists' way of treating him is, in fact, relatively analogous to how the British treated their colonial officer corps in the French and Indian War; regardless of how well various officers performed and ignoring whatever circumstances they performed under, the fact that they were colonials outright precluded a royal commission and subsequent promotion into the gentleman aristocracy, which is what most of the southern states religiously tried to imitate. george washington is the most notable example of this. yes, he got his rear end kicked in the french and indian war, but he kept his units coherent and functional under general braddock's incredibly inept and arrogant leadership and was the inception of the idea of the scout/ranger battalions that saved numerous positions from being compromised. he did fail, but he still outperformed any and all of the 'gentlemen' the mother country sent to resolve the issue. it didn't matter - washington was turned down for both land grants and royal commissions for the better part of a decade before he finally gave up on gentlemanly honor culture as a whole and went rebel, where he ended up playing the part of the greatest Jovian commander* of the era. in this vein i can kind of follow how Corvo gets treated because, implicitly, he was a working class man and therefore a lower class of mammal. but that's a fairly warm take - i've read a lot of books on the colonial period and so forth, but i can't say that i've ever explicitly studied how English culture was arranged in the time period, so most of my impressions are pieced together from related study rather than direct research. *: yes, i know that the colonial army got its poo poo kicked in a lot and had to rely on the French regulars, a real force of disciplined fighters, to force Cornwallis's surrender and deal the political blows required to bring about peace and independence. holding territory and killing the enemy like that was equal in importance to being an inspiring leader and building a popular narrative about a force's invincibility, though. if anything, the inspiring myth portion was more important. holding territory and killing the enemy became more important after Carl von Clausewitz's On War entered the military zeitgeist and war machines got sophisticated enough to support the vision. during Washington's time, a good commander was one with an invincible story and an indomitable will to succeed regardless of what was thrown at you. and in this way, no man was Washington's equal. over the course of his life, he had literally a dozen horses shot out from under him, took 6 bullets to his tunic that were intercepted by buttons or other pieces of metal, survived three shellings, and famously replied to "General, we are too close to the enemy guns here" with "Colonel, you have my leave to step back" while overseeing the battle near Yorktown. there is no other Jovian commander of his period that even comes close.
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Jan 23, 2018 22:23
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I can certainly see Corvo's rise in status making the others all too eager to kick him once he fell back to his 'rightful' position after failing to stop the coup. Just because the Queen decided to pay attention to merit, rather than breeding, didn't mean the others had to see it that way. Of COURSE Corvo should be treated as the servant he always was. The fact he was the Queen's lover, and the Princess's father, was easy to gloss over because of it's status as an open secret rather than known fact. I wonder if it was such a secret not just because he was 'only' the royal protector. He's basically a commoner in their eyes.
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Jan 23, 2018 22:39
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Not to derail things with Washington talk but... We offered to make him King. He said no. Hell of a guy.
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Jan 23, 2018 22:44
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quote:WOW YOU ARE AMAZING PLEASE BE OUR KING. You realize we literally just rebelled so we wouldn't have a king? GASP. YOU ARE AMAZING. YOU'RE RIGHT. I'm more impressed he's not known for calling everyone gigantic dumbasses for offering.
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Jan 23, 2018 22:50
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i can and have gone on for a long time about how in the present moment, where it is both fashionable and cool to tear down heroes whether they deserve it or not, Washington still holds up. he is far from blameless, of course - he did not take a real stand against slavery until the end of his life, just as a for example - but even with as much as i have read about him from dozens of different sources, it's undeniable that he was eighteen flavors of awesome. so instead of actually going on about it, i'll just recommend the best book on the subject that i read (and note in the comments that it presents a non-idealized version of his life and is incredibly well researched). Fuuka Ayase posted:I'm more impressed he's not known for calling everyone gigantic dumbasses for offering. this itself is part of the entire thing with him, incidentally. in private he was a man of fire and flame and had a pretty serious temper. but in public he had such self control that even when he was the most famous person in the country, nobody knew about it.
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Jan 23, 2018 23:05
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RickVoid posted:Not to derail things with Washington talk but... To be fair, he got a better offer from the lizard people.
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Jan 24, 2018 01:54
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White Coke posted:To be fair, he got a better offer from the lizard people. The British Royal Family?  (Damnit, takes me far too long to find the right smiley, must be something wrong with me) Are there similar themes in Dishonored 2, d'you think? We can table the question in case there are spoilers, seeing as how we just started. And Coolguye, do you really look like a bald Corvo? Are you, in fact, buff?
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Jan 24, 2018 03:54
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I'm not THAT bald. I have a big bald spot on the crown of my head (think Franciscan Monk sorta poo poo going on there), which is just genetic. I started losing my hair when I was 22. In terms of my build, I'm 6'4", 190 lbs, and 9% body fat. I work out regularly (well, when my life isn't stressful as hell). So yeah, Corvo's build is fairly similar to mine, actually. He's a little heavier than me and a bit broader in the shoulders, but if I got up to 200-205 pounds I'd be close to his spitting image.
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Jan 24, 2018 06:21
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Coolguye posted:In terms of my build, I'm 6'4", 190 lbs, and 9% body fat. So much for imagining you to be a fellow pale pasty nerd. Next you'll be telling me that Robokye looks like Michael Clarke Duncan (god rest his soul). But with glasses.
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Jan 24, 2018 06:44
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i mean i am so white as to be translucent so that part's not wrong
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Jan 24, 2018 08:20
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Awesome, another Coolguye and Roboky adventure through an Arkane game. Looking forward to this.
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Jan 24, 2018 09:57
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berenzen posted:Awesome, another Coolguye and Roboky adventure through an Arkane game. Looking forward to this. AHEM
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Jan 24, 2018 16:27
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seriously, i remember skool expressing a small bit of concern that she wasn't going to 'fit in' with our group, and within like 2 sessions she had the god damnit insert you heard in my episode 1 and then her episode 1 just holy poo poo, i couldn't breathe during commentary her ep 1 will be tomorrow though, for now have a bonus video courtesy of lune: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hhy-iKRufc
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Jan 24, 2018 18:53
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The fact that Washington made the unbelievable move of walking away from the Presidency (refusing to run a third time, even though he almost certainly would have won) is probably the main reason I think he was such an amazing man. The number of powerful nation leaders who willingly walked away from power without being compelled by age, politics, or scandal is just tiny. "Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test." - Robert Ingersoll. Ingersoll wrote that about Lincoln, but it applies equally well to Washington, and I think it goes to the real heart of Dishonored's plot, and what the Outsider is all about. There's no doubt the Outsider is a Mephistopheles-like figure, offering Faustian bargains of power to people. Most of the time the people we see who get those magic powers use them to destroy themselves and others. The ultimate test for Corvo or Emily is what they do with the power that's offered them.
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Jan 24, 2018 19:01
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My personal favorite way to kill him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBimrOKBJoU When I first played, I did this accidentally.
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Jan 24, 2018 19:17
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that is some loving quality murder right there
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Jan 24, 2018 19:44
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painedforever posted:The British Royal Family?
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Jan 24, 2018 19:54
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Aren't they werewolves?
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Jan 24, 2018 20:50
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 awoo, bitches
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Jan 24, 2018 21:14
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I couldn't not .gif the magic vanishing sword. 
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Jan 24, 2018 22:45
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*~its job done, the soul steel returned to the ether from which it spawned~*
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Jan 24, 2018 23:59
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The Outsider took it as a souvenir.
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Jan 25, 2018 00:39
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Two updates in, and already the nonsense has reached wonderful levels.  Looking forward to Emily's levels the most, since I'm curious as to how much of dear old dad's...er, "habits" Emily has inherited.
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Jan 25, 2018 06:21
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AradoBalanga posted:Looking forward to Emily's levels the most, since I'm curious as to how much of dear old dad's...er, "habits" Emily has inherited. Well,if the science video is any indication, she's inherited her father's whiffing ability.
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Jan 25, 2018 06:32
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AradoBalanga posted:Two updates in, and already the nonsense has reached wonderful levels. Y'know, considering that the game starts with a PoV from Emily, I think that Dishonored 2 is more Emily's story than Corvo's. I dunno, maybe. Well, it's an idea that I like, anyway. Corvo mentioning that she's been spending time on the rooftops, Corvo getting his chance to show-off during the coup by decapitating that one guy and blink-killing the others before he gets frozen by whatsherface... it seems to lead up to Emily being the main character. I'm glad that Corvo's in it as an option, but Emily is the main character, is the theory I'm comfortable with. Or canonical character. Whatever, you ken what I mean.
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Jan 25, 2018 08:13
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as i said before, the idea that this isn’t corvo’s story strikes me as absurd. if corvo wasn’t meant to here the entire setting of karnaca doesn’t make any sense at all.
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Jan 25, 2018 08:49
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Okay this is a weird theory I have and it really only holds up in things like Final Fantasy 12. But while I think Dishonored 2 is Corvo's story, it is also not because I think it is actually Emily telling Corvo's story. I also don't think it quite succeeded at this, my theory is that they wanted to tell a story that had the history of Corvo in it, but they wanted to tell it through the eyes of Emily, but found that they couldn't just have her running around pops old stomping ground looking at all the places he kicked the can. So they added more plot and slowly there was less time to tell the Corvo story and more time was taken up telling the Jessamine story, and with it the Delilah story. which brings me to why I say it's like FF12, that game is Balthier's story being told by Vaan. I never finished this, I got through a few levels as Emily, really didn't like a specific low chaos option, and switched to more moderate play through as Corvo because I like his power set better. Then I just stopped. Then my computer broke. I guess I get to see everything this game has to offer now
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Jan 25, 2018 17:56
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Low Chaos Emily - A Long Day in Dunwall: Youtube Polsy (still processing as of this moment)
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Jan 25, 2018 19:35
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that corpse pile 
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Jan 25, 2018 20:45
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there is so much to love about that moment the build up in loving crazy weirdness, the corpse pile, the detonation among the most of us, and then skool's cheeky "EDITING!!!" reply
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Jan 25, 2018 20:58
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Okay Yep Skoolmonkee just won the LP for me.
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Jan 25, 2018 21:03
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I have nothing to say except this; I have never laughed so hard as to make my face hurt, before today.
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Jan 25, 2018 21:33
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This is magical
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Jan 25, 2018 21:45
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ISS is most likely Imperial Steam Ship.
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Jan 25, 2018 21:49
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   The best stuff is near the end of the video, I didn't want to spoil it.
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Jan 25, 2018 22:04
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Me, roughly thirty minutes ago: "I dunno if I really want to watch the first Low Chaos Emily video; it'll pretty much be a retread of Low Chaos Corvo because they don't have divergent power sets yet." Me now: 
namehereguy fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 22:19
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The inquisition approves of your low Chaos rating. Also, nice nut cracking. 
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Jan 25, 2018 22:41
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i really cannot tell you guys how glad i was when i saw skool's first episode and i realized how far she and rose had taken the 'play however makes you happy' direction i left for them. the basic ethos i had taken when trying to get collaborators was "get people who are excited and self-starting, and let them off the leash" and we didn't even leave dunwall TOWER before that paid off.
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Jan 25, 2018 23:05
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It's a kind of magic~
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Jan 26, 2018 00:27
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