 Kill La Kill is an anime by Studio Trigger that aired in late '13. It is extremely popular, but is considered problematic. We've been having a lot of discussions about KLK in a bunch of different threads lately, so I figured I'd try and bring them together under one roof. It might be fun to refresh our memories of Kill La Kill by doing a simulwatch. Let's say 2 episodes weekly at 6PM PST (UTC-7) on Eela6 fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Jan 22, 2018 |
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Jan 22, 2018 22:26
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You are a good egg, Eela6. I like you. 
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Jan 22, 2018 22:32
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Wark Say posted:You are a good egg, Eela6. I like you. Thank you. I really enjoy talking about anime with y'all on ADRTW.
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Jan 22, 2018 22:32
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IIRC Kill la Kill simultaneously made the 2014 Top 10 AotY and Worst Anime of the Year lists, and as a data lover I am truly thankful for that.
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Jan 22, 2018 22:36
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I should be able to do it
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Jan 22, 2018 22:37
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5 second butt shot
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Jan 22, 2018 22:42
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Theres no reason to watch KLK past... uh.. what episode does the athletics festival start? I cant even say "only the first half is good" because the dumb rear end athletics festival takes up 5 episodes of the first half. What a waste of a strong start.
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Jan 22, 2018 22:45
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Staying up til 2am to watch butt slaps
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Jan 22, 2018 22:47
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So here's some questions to throw out w/r/t KLK. Don't feel obligated to answer any or all of these. Can you create fetishy entertianment that is not pornography? Related: Is Kill La Kill pornography? Does making a piece of entertainment fetishy intrinsically devalue it's other qualities? Is a misstep in plotting or framing of sexual events more damaging than other kinds of artistic mistakes? Can a character who is consistently fetishized and sexualized still be a good character? Why do people enjoy Kill La Kill? Is Kill La Kill Good or Bad, and If So, despite it's weird sex stuff or because of it?
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Jan 22, 2018 22:58
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6 pm what timezone?
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Jan 22, 2018 23:02
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GodFish posted:6 pm what timezone? Pacific Standard Time (UTC-7)
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Jan 22, 2018 23:03
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Every Thursday?
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Jan 22, 2018 23:04
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Wark Say posted:Every Thursday? I said Wednesday, but actually Thursday would work better for me. Let's do that!
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Jan 22, 2018 23:06
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Eela6 posted:Is a misstep in plotting or framing of sexual events more damaging than other kinds of artistic mistakes? quote:Can a character who is consistently fetishized and sexualized still be a good character? quote:Why do people enjoy Kill La Kill? quote:Is Kill La Kill Good or Bad, and If So, despite it's weird sex stuff or because of it? I want everyone in this thread to watch Re:Cutie Honey, because it shares some key staff with Kill la Kill and a lot of similar sexual content, and I think that between the two shows, there's a very specific line that Kill la Kill screws up that Cutie Honey manages perfectly, and it feels like a much more interesting story without losing its own sense of goofy absurdity or just feeling tasteless--which is funny, because between them, Re is the only one that frequently crosses into full nudity. Plus, it's only three episodes and the finale is directed by Hideaki Anno, and if you like the humor in Kill la Kill, the first episode is directed by Imaishi and treads close to a very similar sense of energy as the early going in KLK. The Colonel fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Jan 22, 2018 |
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Jan 22, 2018 23:22
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So here's some questions to throw out w/r/t Symphogear. Don't feel obligated to answer any or all of these. Can you create fetishy entertianment that is not pornography? Related: Is Symphogearpornography? Does making a piece of entertainment fetishy intrinsically devalue it's other qualities? Is a misstep in plotting or framing of sexual events more damaging than other kinds of artistic mistakes? Can a character who is consistently fetishized and sexualized still be a good character? Why do people enjoy Symphogear? Is Symphogear Good or Bad, and If So, despite it's weird sex stuff or because of it? Would Symphogear have been better if Hibiki had gotten a cool robot arm in G instead of just regrowing her lost limb due to Gungnir's infection of her?
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Jan 22, 2018 23:27
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the answer to that last one is yes btw
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Jan 22, 2018 23:28
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Endorph posted:So here's some questions to throw out w/r/t Symphogear. Don't feel obligated to answer any or all of these. The year is 2030. All Threads Are About Symphogear.
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Jan 22, 2018 23:28
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Eela6 posted:The year is 2030. All Threads Are About Symphogear.
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Jan 22, 2018 23:30
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Like, legitimately, the Fine/Chris scene in S1 and the Ragyo/Satsuki scene are very, very similar, and in some ways the Fine/Chris scene is more hosed up considering there's a literal bloody iron maiden in the background. Why is one something people are mostly okay with if a bit wary of and the other a meme, in this subforum? (Part of it's Kill la Kill backlash. Kill backlash Kill) By comparing and contrasting those two scenes and how they're handled I think we'll come to a more reasonable conclusion about why Kill la Kill is viewed the way it is than if we just argued about if horny is good or bad.
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Jan 22, 2018 23:33
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Also note that I'm not calling Re:Cutie Honey any kind of uh, deconstruction, lol, it's exactly as fanservicey as it seems, I just think it does much better with it all and makes it work much more in its favor than having an incest rapemom
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Jan 22, 2018 23:33
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I can get in on this
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Jan 22, 2018 23:36
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Endorph posted:Like, legitimately, the Fine/Chris scene in S1 and the Ragyo/Satsuki scene are very, very similar, and in some ways the Fine/Chris scene is more hosed up considering there's a literal bloody iron maiden in the background. Why is one something people are mostly okay with if a bit wary of and the other a meme, in this subforum? (Part of it's Kill la Kill backlash. Kill backlash Kill) By comparing and contrasting those two scenes and how they're handled I think we'll come to a more reasonable conclusion about why Kill la Kill is viewed the way it is than if we just argued about if horny is good or bad. the exceedingly bad english in the scene distracts from the imagery and the cult of personality surrounding the series drowns out any posts about this or any of the other various sexual scenes like with the season 3 villain or whenever the girls get beat up and left half naked
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Jan 22, 2018 23:40
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Endorph posted:im mostly just making a point about kill la kill isnt like, the first anime to be horny in a weird way. the differences between it and symphogear mostly come down to tone and framing, not a lack of sexuality. i think discussion of klk is valid, but a lot of those questions are focused on the fact that it has tits and rear end in it at all, not how it frames those things, what its other merits are, or how people view it. I'm happy to have discussions like this about Symphogear, too - I've asked you about how you feel about Symphogear's fanservice stuff before, and I would like you to compare and contrast those scenes if you have the time to spare. Endorph, you know a lot more about anime than me and you're a better writer, and that's cool! But you tend to come off as really dismissive when people talk about like... things that you consider obvious, that other people don't? And you sometimes use those skills to bulldoze people who are trying to engage honestly if not articulately. Endorph posted:Would Symphogear have been better if Hibiki had gotten a cool robot arm in G instead of just regrowing her lost limb due to Gungnir's infection of her? gently caress yes. Eela6 fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Jan 22, 2018 |
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Jan 22, 2018 23:44
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Davincie posted:the exceedingly bad english in the scene distracts from the imagery and the cult of personality surrounding the series drowns out any posts about this or any of the other various sexual scenes like with the season 3 villain or whenever the girls get beat up and left half naked Eela6 posted:I don't think those are the only things worth talking about with Kill La Kill (or Symphogear) at all! I asked those questions because they're the things that I thought about when I considered why I like Kill La Kill, and they seemed to follow from what people were talking about w/r/t KLK in the other threads that lead to this one. imo the diff. between the kill la kill scene and the symphogear scene is both that the framing is a little less sexual - obviously they're both naked, we're not idiots we can get what's going on, but fine's just stroking at chris's face and shoulders and stuff, she isn't 13:32 - buttslap, and also Chris actually has a character arc about her abuse both from Fine and in general and coming to terms with it, which even if it isn't executed well (esp. in later seasons which seem to forget on and off just how hosed up Chris's life was) is more than Satsuki gets. Satsuki's abuse being sexual is just straight-up never really confronted directly in Kill la Kill, and it kind of leads to the question of why it's even in the show. imo, i think that kinda speaks to the reason why Kill la Kill gets focused on as like, the embodiment of anime fanservice even if it's barely any more excessive than any other late night anime. it occupies this weird middle ground where the characters constantly actively talk about and reference the fanservice but yet the fanservice and other weird sexual elements never actually coalesce into anything other than Satsuki saying she doesn't care if people see once. Compared to Symphogear, where the characters never even mention the gear outfits being sexy. Whether or not that's good or bad is one thing but Kill la Kill just straight up wouldn't be a show if you cut out the fanservice, while Symphogear would honestly probably be better for it in some ways. Some of the sexual elements are fine or even add a bit, but I don't think anyone'd be complaining if they cut out that weird bit in G where Chris is just straight up naked. I'm pretty sure even the writers wouldn't complain, considering they basically retconned that bit out in AXZ.
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Jan 22, 2018 23:56
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for the record, I occupy the weird middle ground where I don't even like Kill la Kill but also think it gets way too much flack for doing stuff that people are totally willing to go to bat for in other shows.
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Jan 22, 2018 23:59
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ragyo is like my chief complaint with klk. i don't personally care about any of the outfits or anything, and if klk didn't have her scenes i'd probably just say it's a decent action show with a weak back half
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Jan 23, 2018 00:01
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also ftr im NOT trying to make this thread about symphogear, im just using it to illustrate a point about klkThe Colonel posted:ragyo is like my chief complaint with klk. i don't personally care about any of the outfits or anything, and if klk didn't have her scenes i'd probably just say it's a decent action show with a weak back half
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Jan 23, 2018 00:03
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Endorph posted:for the record, I occupy the weird middle ground where I don't even like Kill la Kill but also think it gets way too much flack for doing stuff that people are totally willing to go to bat for in other shows. Being a show a good number of people watched (in anime communities at least) and being really hyped because of former gainax and specific staff like Imaishi probably played into it. I still see people be kinda silly about them as a studio both positively and negatively. People are just kinda weird about a certain subset of anime studios/creators people think have to be big things/discussion points by default.
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Jan 23, 2018 00:10
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Motto posted:Being a show a good number of people watched (in anime communities at least) and being really hyped because of former gainax and specific staff like Imaishi probably played into it. I still see people be kinda silly about them as a studio both positively and negatively. People are just kinda weird about a certain subset of anime studios/creators people think have to be big things/discussion points by default. I think KLK has a way wider audience in the United States than like Keijo!!!!!!! or Symphogear or something. I have friends who don't consider themselves anime fans who have seen KLK. It's on Netflix!
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Jan 23, 2018 00:12
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Kill la Kill got hyped up a ton so I'm sure that's part of it.
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Jan 23, 2018 00:14
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I agree, if my post came off otherwise.
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Jan 23, 2018 00:16
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It's mostly just weird when I see even Extremely Anime people go 'Well, Made in Abyss has some problematic elements...' and then 'RAGGLE FRAGGLE KILL LA KILL TRIGGER FRANXX,' even though the stuff Abyss does is way worse than KLK even dares to dream about. I guess part of it is that KLK is so - of itself? So emphasizing of its own fanservice, I guess - that it's taken on this bizarre role as a sort of fanservice effigy, where instead of getting mad about fanservice in things you actually like you just kvetch about Kill la Kill.
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Jan 23, 2018 00:19
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I'm not watching the dumb show but if you are please screenshot all the military gear lingerie outfits and post them here, tia
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Jan 23, 2018 00:22
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DisDisDis posted:I'm not watching the dumb show but if you are please screenshot all the military gear lingerie outfits and post them here, tia
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Jan 23, 2018 00:25
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Eela6 posted:Can you create fetishy entertianment that is not pornography? Though i think more in spirit with your question is the unspoken question "Is pornography intrinsically problematic/devalue a piece of entertainment?" And it really depends on a case by case basis, but I would say no. Sexuality is a natural part of humanity, and it makes sense for a myriad of reasons to explore the subject thematically through various means, whether metaphorically/symbolically; whether through historical accounts; whether through art, literature, music, or film. Part of the problem is that in many modern societies sexuality (and in the case of Kill La Kill, nudity) is seen through a puritan lens as a negative aspect of humanity, which causes us to censure it, which makes the subject taboo and, ironically, sensationalizes it so that way there's a certain cultural obsession with Sexuality. It could be argued that there's merit to restrict these sorts of materials from younger groups because they may not be mature enough to comprehend or emotionally handle the subject matter, but that's another argument for another time, though i suppose considering the age of the majority of the cast in KLK, it does raise questions of when does one truly becone mature enough to handle these issues, especially when they come to self-identity (Though the show never goes to bat to talk about these kinds of themes, and i feel like that's part of my problem with the show as a whole, is that it has very little to day on these subjects despite tge whole conceit of the show) quote:Related: Is Kill La Kill pornography? quote:Does making a piece of entertainment fetishy intrinsically devalue it's other qualities? Also to go a bit off topic and throw a curveball at you, fetishes don't have to be inherently sexual: having a movie director with a fetish for "technology" could influence the directing and set pieces of a film, but it's not really designed to "titilate" anybody, and doesn't color the media with Sexual connotations. quote:Is a misstep in plotting or framing of sexual events more damaging than other kinds of artistic mistakes? quote:Can a character who is consistently fetishized and sexualized still be a good character? quote:Why do people enjoy Kill La Kill? quote:Is Kill La Kill Good or Bad, and If So, despite it's weird sex stuff or because of it?
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Jan 23, 2018 00:25
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Endorph posted:the answer to that last one is yes btw 
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Jan 23, 2018 00:26
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Endorph posted:there's like three dumb shows you could be referring to in this post KLK but what are the other two I've only seen it in klk and uh, MGS V
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Jan 23, 2018 00:27
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KLK started off as an ok dumb but funny show that completely disappeared up its own rear end and became near unwatchable by the midway mark.
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Jan 23, 2018 00:28
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Endorph posted:It's mostly just weird when I see even Extremely Anime people go 'Well, Made in Abyss has some problematic elements...' and then 'RAGGLE FRAGGLE KILL LA KILL TRIGGER FRANXX,' even though the stuff Abyss does is way worse than KLK even dares to dream about. I think there's baggage from previous trigger/gainax stuff they might not have liked at play there, so people are more willing to go "yeah this probably won't be my thing again" vs something like Abyss being treated an independent entity. I don't think that's a great mindset though since I saw a decent number of people not really give LWA a chance Because Trigger for one reason or another when it doesn't really have much overlap with their other notable stuff. tl;dr: being weird about trigger is to anime bloggers as regarding kyoani as Evil Moe Co is to anime forums (and also some other bloggers)
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Jan 23, 2018 00:32
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hopefully like the kyoani thing it goes away after 4-5 years
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Jan 23, 2018 00:33
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