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Hey everyone, I have been reading some of the worst-of threads in this forum so I'm feeling like "hey, at least I'm better off than I could be! But things are gonna get complicated soon, and... well, I don't know what I'm doing. And I have a history of making bad decisions. So I'm coming to potentially the worst place on the internet to ask for help, because why not throw another one on the pile, you know? What I want: Financial independence. The ability to actually start working towards my dreams. Knowing I could switch careers and take half my pay or less and still be financially secure. Having money saved up for my kid's college would be nice although I sort of feel like the time he's old enough to attend college the whole system will be so hosed up it's impossible to plan for - but I'm sure a big pile of money will be nice to have to help him get started regardless of what else happens! At some point I'd actually like to have more kids and be able to have more kids - a normal number, you know, 6 or 7? But, obviously that's dependent on a lot of things that aren't finances so I'm content to mostly ignore that one of the time being... still, at least 2 more are hopefully in my future so let's consider that the "plan". Where I am right now: 32 years old, married (for the moment), 1 child (3 years old) I am bringing in $6,500 a month - that's after taxes and health insurance/FISA. Medical + Dental + FISA is about $250 a month. I'm not putting anything towards my 401k at the moment, but my job automatically does a 3% contribution (of base salary, so about $3k) so there's still some money going in I have $28,400 in the 401k from my previous job I have $??,??? in the 401k (will add this later, they changed their login details and I lost access to it) I've only got the one debt now that we have paid off the car (a honda civic) - and that's the $800/month I'm paying for student loans. That's thankfully not what I need to pay, I'm just trying to pay it down. Total Student Debt remaning: $21,600 (down from an all time high somewhere in the upper $70k range and at 5% interest) Asset-wise, it's basically just the car and household stuff like clothes, furniture, computers, toys, tools. We have $3,400 in the shared account and I have $500 more in my personal unspent. And by personal I mean: Me and my wife each put $250 per month into our "personal no questions asked" spending accounts which is dumped into various things the other person would never approve of spending the family's money on. The rest goes towards household costs, bill payments, medical expenses and the like. This was sort of a bleeding-staunching method to try and put a cap on our (and by "our" I mostly mean "her") out of control spending. My wife does not work. Judging by the logs I have been keeping, childcare-wise I would probably be considered the "Primary Caretaker" despite working full time, since we pay for daycare two days a week and I watch him the majority of the time when I'm home including feeding him, dressing him, putting him to bed, etc. and so on. And where it get's messy... In roughly two week's time, I'm going to be telling my spouse I want a divorce. That's going to be a... process, and there are a great many reasons it's happening, but the eventual divorce is going to happen as quickly as reasonable. I don't want it to financially ruin me - this is a chance to start over new in many ways. I am asking you guys for help, now, before I gently caress it up, because I've certainly hosed things up plenty in the past such that I'm lucky I make enough money to put us in the good shape we are in right now. I'm hoping for a relatively quick mediated divorce, but there is a significant potential for things to get ugly. If there's a chance of this ending without ugly litigation, I think it's basically a requirement that I give up any claim to any sort of "shared asset" - it can safely be assumed that anything that isn't exclusively mine (clothes, toys, computer) is going to be given up. I'll also probably need to keep all my student loan debt. Probably shouldn't have agreed to prioritize paying off her $30k car first because it had a much higher interest rate, but hindsight... I am fine with losing all of our meagre shared assets so long as I can eventually be in charge of my finances (no idea what is reasonable for alimony or how long it should last) and I get at least equal coparenting status in terms of the kid. It means avoiding expensive lawyer and court fees that will almost assuredly cost more than whatever I will get out of it. But beyond that, I am very much out of my depth, and worse, I don't really know who to ask for help, or who to trust - and so here I am. I'll provide additional information as requested to the best of my ability, in as timely a manner as I can. What the gently caress do I do to survive this divorce financially intact and then finally discharge all this debt while providing the groundwork of a stable, secure life for both me and my child? GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Jan 22, 2018 |
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Jan 22, 2018 22:26
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| # ¿ May 21, 2024 13:40 |
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Rent is $1800 a month and childcare is $600 a month. State is MassachusettsMourne posted:Does your wife have any skills or a degree? Why isn't she working? She has a college bachelor's degree in psychology, but her job experience is all clerical work since graduation. She was working until our child was born, where she became a stay-at-home mother. Mourne posted:I think step one for you is to hire a really good divorce attorney. You're going to need their help. quote:Step two will be figuring out custody. Where are your parents/in-laws and what is that dynamic like? quote:Basically, if you're divorcing your stay at home wife, be prepared for a nasty battle. quote:This isn't going to be cheap, and since you're the breadwinner, you will likely shoulder most of the costs. She's likely entitled to half of your 401ks so be prepared to liquidate those if needed. Dude you need a lawyer, and I would say you should be talking to one before you tell your wife so you know how to act if/when she completely freaks out. Will do. I don't expect much in the way of legal advice in the thread for obvious reasons (that's what the attorney is for!), but as things progress hopefully you guys can offer advice on how to actually handle whatever deal falls out at the end financially and help me get back on my feet. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Jan 22, 2018 |
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Jan 22, 2018 23:10
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I am not sure she isnt. Going batshit is a very real possibility and one I am preparing for. And if it comes down to a fight then it comes down to a fight - but it seems like avoiding that would be everyone's best interests so I will be doing my best to avoid that outcome. I am willing to give her more both to help make a costly court fight where we both lose less likely, and also because why wouldnt I? I dont wish her ill, I hope she can go on to lead a happy and fulfilling life and am willing to do my part to allow that to happen for some reasonable period of time. Her going broke isnt going to benefit our son either. I hadnt considered the possibility of her father bankrolling an expensive legal battle, ugh. That doesnt seem likely based on what I know of their relationship, but it is definitely a possiblity I should try to prepare for. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Jan 23, 2018 |
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Jan 23, 2018 00:05
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I will be contacting an attorney tonight. I do not think contacting the most expensive attorney I can find is within my budget here though. I have no idea what IS within my budget because i have no idea how divorce lawyers actually get paid I suppose I can come back here after the divorce is finalized and try this again? GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Jan 23, 2018 |
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Jan 23, 2018 00:29
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500 in a personal account and 3400 in account that also has her name on it. That is all of our non retirement savings.
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Jan 23, 2018 00:50
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I wasnt suggesting a permanent 50k a year alimony, I suggested it is a possible starting point for a temporary thing to get her back on her feet as part of a mediation agreement - offering her more up front to reduce the risk of a legal battle where I would have to pay more into perpetuity. Also most of the other things you mentioned are not permanent fixed things. Obviously more kids is a long term goal, and even then only a potential one. What does FIRE stand for? So yeah the worst case scenario is probably not that bad. But its still pretty bad. This is why I would very much like to direct my efforts towards a mediated divorce that avoids anything approaching a worst case scenario. (worst case scenario is actually me backing out and deciding to not to go through with the divorce - better a bad situation where I have to compromise on many of my desires than one where every last one of my desires is undesireable) GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Jan 23, 2018 |
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Jan 23, 2018 01:07
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I have no desire or intent to retire early, sorry if I was unclear about that. I will let you guys know how the lawyer chat goes I guess, unless he tells me not to.
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Jan 23, 2018 01:13
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About six years
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Jan 23, 2018 01:18
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Nah, leave it open, we'll throw one more mistake on the pile, and when this is over, however long this takes, I'll be back and post some more about post divorce stuff.
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Jan 23, 2018 02:22
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Mourne posted:Then why don't you go ahead and tell us why you are divorcing your wife and mother of your child? Accepting the damage here has been done is a different thing from digging myself deeper, so based on the advice you just offered I am, uh... not gonna do that. Revealing additional information seems like a mistake at this point until, as has been suggested, I speak with an attorney. And then probably not until the divorce is actually finalized. Advice on how to find a good attorney, since you're emphasizing the importance of acquiring one, beyond asking my employer for references (which I will do) would still be appreciated though, especially in light of how little I have in savings. "Picking at random off justia.com" is the best I can figure at the moment and that seems like it will be insufficient. I guess I should call like a dozen of them, get info on rates and retainers and... some sort of other information? And then desperately try to find one I can afford, which is probably none of them? Mourne posted:Please find every red cent you can to hire the best attorney possible. You are going to need it. Should I cash out my 401k, then? GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Jan 23, 2018 |
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Jan 23, 2018 02:29
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Higgy posted:Is divorce the only option? Is your marriage in any way salvageable? Yes, and no. Other avenues were already pursued and failed, unfortunately.
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Jan 23, 2018 05:00
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I don't know, the point of this thread is more about helping my build a plan for the future and figure out how to work towards my goals (or what I can of them) financially post-divorce... so this sort of question is honestly more on point. Edit: Actually I'm not sure what harm that could have done, but I've removed it due to the repeated "don't post any more info" advisories. Do you guys really think it would be harmful to post about "worst case scenario plans"? Assuming I lose all assets and start at square one, and I end up paying the legal maximum... that's 35% of my income to alimony for 4 years and paying for full time childcare somehow I imagine. It still seems like something I could build a plan around. And one would think that have a solid post-separation financial plan could only help in court? GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Jan 23, 2018 |
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Jan 23, 2018 16:16
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Mourne posted:Does your company offer legal services to their employees or have they partnered with anyone that they might be able to help you. I'm in Big Pharma myself and I know we have all kinds of resources available to us, including lawyers and whatnot. Can your company help you with finding a good lawyer that isn't going to gouge you too bad? I want to say: Thank you so much for this, this was exceptionally helpful advice. They have a lot of resources on this front I did not know about and never would have thought to ask, and it makes me exceptionally glad I posted this thread here, even if the advice I got wasn't the sort I was looking for it was very very useful.
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Jan 23, 2018 23:00
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Okay, so this whole process is officially underway. It might be a couple of months until its done and everything is worked, but we have a timetable but we both seem committed to avoiding court and negotiating something fair to both of us, either through mediation or a collaborative process - we'll be deciding on that soon, but I think collaborative is more likely. So it's nice that this isn't seeming like it will be a super contentious burn-the-bridges sort of situation. Right now the financial plan is to liquidate $12-14k of the retirement fund to pay for retainers, paperwork, and getting us into new accommodations. I guess we'll see later what will happen to the rest. I've been looking for apartments in the area - it looks like $1500 a month is about what I can expect. It's gonna feel weird to from from renting a big house for $1.8k a month and moving into a tiny place to save only $300 but we're both gonna need that extra $300 no matter how the finances work out in the end I'm sure. I'll almost certainly be keeping all the student loans personally. Not really looking for any more advice yet, just providing the thread with an update for anyone who cares. Colin Mockery posted:If anything, practice your self-control and monitor your discretionary spending for a while and try to get a measure of how much you spend on eating out and other unnecessary expenses? Try to keep aware of when you get the impulse to purchase something and keep track of how often that is/how much you'd normally spend? I've been trying my best to follow this advice, although I've done so... imperfectly. Food is definitely an emotional coping mechanism for me. I've avoided spending money on any of the other things I'd normally be inclined to spend it on though, and I've only spent $30 in the last two months so I'm up to $720 in the personal account. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Feb 5, 2018 |
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Feb 5, 2018 20:14
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So, current financial plan and status, myself and wife are working together to figure this out, so yeah... time for some advice: Need to decide whether to liquidate all $35k in retirement savings or just half of it? It would be nice to have some retirement savings, but having a safety buffer for both of us post-separation, enough to handle a new car, new apartments, new lives might be good. And if it lasts, I can use it to pay off my loan - and to be honest, even though the interest on my loan is low, I don't think they are lower than the interest on retirement savings on average. But, of course, I'd have to pay taxes on that so... yeah. Need to get a car for myself. It's been years since I've bought a car. She'll be keeping the current one, and I'll be getting some cash value equivalents worth of *something* (probably actual cash/retirement savings) to get one of my own. Need to find an apartment... my experience in the past with apartments hasn't been great, hopefully this time will go better without breaking the bank. Are there other things we should be thinking about that we aren't?
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Feb 6, 2018 05:21
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The loan I mentioned is my student loan, yes. Yeah, unfortunately not touching the 401k is not an option, so the question is more how much should we touch. We need enough to pay for lawyers, we need enough to get new places and make them livable, I need a car, we need enough to pay the entry fees for a full time daycare which is gonna be hellishly expensive, and we don't have enough savings to cover that. So the money has to come from where we've got it, and that's the 401k. I figure it's better than putting it all on credit cards or something! I'm actually leaning towards liquidating about $20k of it right now. That will leave $16k split between the two of us, or $8k a piece. Which feels like it's practically nothing, but I guess it's not really nothing and still worth keeping? Can always liquidate the rest later if necessary. SiGmA_X posted:Is your wife going to get a job? If not, you definitely need to make a good amount more money. She's certainly going to be trying, and her father has offered to help support her until that happens. He also wants her to move into one of his houses (he owns like four houses that are sitting empty because he keeps buying land and building them but then decides its too much hassle to rent them out) but she's currently taking the "hell no" stand on that, since it would put her two hours away and she wants to stay near her kid. Also, I suspect she desperately wants to never again live in one of her dad's abandoned homes. He's not a reliable person, and it would definitely come with strings. For the immediate future, I'm also going to want to get our son into full time daycare ASAP, so she can start looking for jobs and because the chance might pass soon, since it's sign up season now. An aside on retirement... And to be honest, as much as everyone tells me I should, I don't really give a poo poo about retirement. The only reason I have a 401k at all is because it's tax free, otherwise all that money would be going into a future fund of some sort for my kid or some other sort of direct investment (I care about savings and investing in the future, it's my personal 401k retirement fund I don't give a poo poo about). Plus, based on my family history the chance of me being able to enjoy retiring at all is exactly equal to the chance of them finding a cure for alzheimer's and dementia and probably heart disease too, so... I don't know if my goal is or even should be retirement at any point? Saving for retirement just feels like a huge gamble - will they fix the medical issues that destroyed my ancestors young? Will the stock market offer reasonable returns long term? Will social security be enough to cover how I end up living? Will I ever want to stop working (I can't imagine it, but maybe!)? Will I end up retiring during a crash and having those savings decimated like some other people I know did? I'm not much of a gambler, and it feels like that money could be spent on more reliable things, on guaranteed benefits that will actually make the lives of me and my kid better long term, instead of hoping things work out and we have a windfall 35 years down the road. That is probably a dumb way to think about it, but it's hard to think about it anyway else.
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Feb 6, 2018 17:54
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:If you're NOT saving for retirement, you're the ballsiest gambler of them all. I don't know about that. It's not like I'm planning on throwing the money in the chipper, the point is obviously to spend it on making a better future now, while I am guaranteed to have the opportunity to make those other direct investments, instead of letting someone else use my money to do speculations. It just feels like it would be better to put that money in something with actual value, like my son's education, then leave it to the whims of a market based primarily and foremost on hoping the future is full of even bigger suckers than the present day. And it's not like I'm just running with that feeling - I've saved up as much as I have and am obviously considering not draining it all, and I'd be putting in more regardless. It just seems like in terms of "all possible investments I could be making", a 401k is by far one of the riskiest. I've also admitted that my feelings on that issue might not adequately reflect reality. GoGoGadgetChris posted:Also you sound pretty depressed. Not sad and mopey, but like you don't give a poo poo or have feelings. A lawyer is good but you need a therapist just as much, imho What do you mean? I very much give a poo poo about a whole lot of stuff and while I would very much like to not have feelings for a few weeks, I am actually feeling a whole lot right now. But this isn't really the place for that, you know? I thankfully have a support network for emotional support and I am using it. What I don't have is a support network for financial (or even legal, really) advice of any sort. Edit: Also man retirement poo poo is super loving complicated, I hate dealing with this stuff. All the liquidation will be coming from a single older account, one I probably should have rolled over to my current employer or to some sort of IRA by now I'm sure. Do you guys know of any good resources for understand all this stuff? GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Feb 6, 2018 |
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Feb 6, 2018 19:38
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Haifisch posted:It doesn't have to be complicated. Put at least enough in your 401k to max out employer match. Put the max($5500/yr) into a Roth IRA if you qualify for one, ideally with Vanguard or another trusted low-fee company. If you don't, put it in a regular IRA instead(or put more into your 401k, but your employer's options may be worse than putting the money into a Vanguard fund or something). Set everything to target date funds(which automatically adjust your investments to be less risky as you near expected retirement age) and forget about it. Is the $5,500 max a year for the Roth still a limit if it's part of a rollover? So I couldn't roll over the whole thing? Although I suppose I'd be wanting to actually roll this over into two separate IRAs, one for me and one for my soon to be ex wife, and keep equal amounts in both... My employer doesn't do matching, but they do make their own contributions that happen whether I add anything or not - does that mean I should just be sticking my own contributions directly into a Roth/traditional IRA instead, or still adding them to the 401k? I'll check out the other more relevant threads as well. potatoducks posted:When you say you care about savings and investment but not in your 401k what are you saving for if not for retirement? I was under the impression you could pull funds from your "retirement" account so long as you were old enough, regardless of whether you actually retired. So it's an investment I can make that will provide a source of supplementary income in my older years, rather than being part of any actual retirement plan. I have no desire to be subjected to the everlasting nightmare that most people seem to dream of and try to live when they think about "retirement" - I don't want to end up like my healthy and financially secure relatives any more than I want to end up like the ones that are functionally braindead or actually dead. (okay, I'd actually far prefer the financially secure do-nothings of the first group, but neither are appealing). And hey, if I save enough, I'll be able to do public service work or some sort I couldn't afford to live off of on its own (I guess that one might technically count as "retirement" of sorts though?). So mostly: It's a tax free investment, hoping I get more out of it than I put into it? That's assuming I live long enough and remain of sound mind, of course. potatoducks posted:What do you mean by direct investment? Spending the money on things with the potential to generate actual long-term utility and value and further income generation. I mean education is a good example of that and the return on value for early childhood education especially is very good... and frankly spending the money on some decent cognitive behavioural therapy might be the same, because even if I don't think I'm properly depressed or emotionally void like the poster above implied, I recognize there are many ways I not particularly well-adapted either. But there are plenty of traditional financial investments that are still direct investments in the generation of future wealth. GoGoGadgetChris posted:Also, planning for your own retirement is the best gift you could ever give your son. You will be saddling him with a tremendous burden if you don't, because he will take care of you and make sacrifices for you even if you don't want him to. I guess I do need to take into consideration that I might fail him as a parent and that this is a possible outcome, sweet as the sentiment may be. I'll be very cross with him if he wastes money he could be investing in his own life and his own children on my wrinkly rear end, but I guess it's a possibility that needs to be prepared for in case I break both my hips or something. >:| Even if I was loaded I would kill myself before inflicting a dementia/alzheimer-ridden walking corpse on him, though. GoGoGadgetChris posted:He's afraid of the stock market and doesn't seem to understand it very well. I HIGHLY recommend reading the jlcollinsnh.com "Stock Series" to learn why you aren't just giving your money to fatcats to speculate with. I think "suspicious" would be more accurate than "afraid", although the charge of ignorance is fair. I think "suspicion and caution when ignorant of the details or true nature investment" is a pretty good default stance though. Education is still worthwhile, so I will check that out regardless.
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Feb 6, 2018 20:44
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potatoducks posted:I still have no idea what you mean by direct investment. It's not a phrase that people use. Did you make it up? Forget the term, which is not a real accepted term because I don't know the real, accepted terms and I'm probably speaking out of gross ignorance. Also, I feel like this is all getting kind of irrelevant, since I'm trying to do what you guys are saying anyway and keep as much in my 401k as I can while further educating myself? Right now my plan is to take out as little as I can to feel like I can weather the next several months with some level of security, and keep the rest in the account. I'm currently planning on pulling out $20k and leaving the remaining $16k to split between me and my wife in IRAs. Does this seem wise, going forward? GoGoGadgetChris posted:Dude, the reason I urged him to have a therapist is that his post seem vaguely suicidal to me. Planning to give away all of your wealth, and having a hard time imagining a future for yourself are two very significant warning signs. I fully intend to live doing good, productive things I enjoy in pursuit of the things I value for as long as possible. I have no plans to give away all my wealth any time soon, and think I've got at least 30 more years of future left to plan for. I do consider alzheimer's and dementia literally worse-than-death and would choose a bullet over them, but I don't think that's necessarily indicative of depression. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Feb 6, 2018 |
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Feb 6, 2018 21:54
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Status update: Been working on things other than retirement stuff for a bit, although I did get a Roth IRA account open. More difficult than I expected it to be, apparently they were having trouble validating my identity, but it's all worked out now. Cheapest full-day-5-day daycare option that doesn't have reviews composed solely of "stay the gently caress away from this place" available is a whopping $1,500, and it's also the place he's already going so he's pretty much guaranteed to get in. We're already paying $600, so that's a $900 increase. Looking at apartments, found a really nice place that's offering a special "2 months free" deal, so year-long contract with an effective rent of $1,200 over the year, which is really drat good for this area, and the price includes everything but electricity and internet which makes it even cheaper by comparison than the others i've looked at, and conveniently just down the street from the cheapest preschool. They're also fine with me having a May 1st move date - I've informed my current landlord I'll be moving out, so hopefully I can figure out the logistics of a move with zero overlap in rental time. We'll probably be seeing the mediator at the end of the month, since the best one we can afford is also on vacation this month - we're working out stuff decently on our own right now, but will definitely need them soon. The plan is to have the details worked out, the paperwork finalized and filed, and everything done on our end by the end of next month. For her part, my soon-to-be-ex already signed for a $1,650/month apartment and is getting ready to move out but hasn't started looking for a job yet. o_o It was mostly on the basis that her father promised to give her what she needed to get through the next few months. Her father has since withdrawn his offer to her for financial support, because he's convinced that if she moves out I'm going to accuse her of abandonment and get full custody and not have to pay her any alimony. Even though abandonment doesn't work that way. So that means we, mostly me, am now paying for two apartments simultaneously, which is... not ideal. I am very much looking forward to her stuff slowly trickling out over the next month or two though, so much. Switching to full time day care is definitely going to wait either for the divorce paperwork to be filed or for her to get a job, whichever comes first.
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Feb 13, 2018 21:04
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SiGmA_X posted:Make sure your old 401k was a Roth, otherwise put it into a non-Roth IRA @ Vanguard. quote:Didn't you say you're in Boston? I can't find that in the thread and it's late, maybe I am misremembering.. If I'm right, $1,440/mo doesn't too bad, but I've only looked in a couple of neighborhoods and it was 3-4yrs ago, and I wasn't looking to move (sister and friend lived out there).
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Feb 16, 2018 02:35
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Update: She is now moved out. Obviously stuff is emotionally hosed right now in lots of ways, but despite that this is, uh... basically the best we've gotten along in years? So it seems like we're still on the road to a decent mediation, hurrah for that. Even that's not looking cheap though - $290 an hour, ugh. The big problem is the $5,000 retainer, which I can't afford. People here and elsewhere are really down on the idea of burning any of the retirement savings on this, so I'm considering taking out a personal loan instead. Yeah, the interests rates can be higher than on the retirement funds - but it means I can afford to get more of the lawyers advice on doing stuff with the retirement funds, and I don't have to pay taxes and penalties... so long as I prioritize paying it off quickly, it seems like a wiser financial move. Would people say that's a good, bad idea? Going into more debt is remarkably unappealing, but I should be able to pay back any such loan within 6 months based on likely agreement outcomes (and so long as I live as cheaply as possible in other ways), so it might just be a superior option to tapping the retirement funds. I would imagine that since it's for a shared lawyer, it would also be a shared debt and we can split that as well - or, since she's keeping the car, she might just get to keep all of it! Speaking of cars, I've been thinking more about it and I think my best option is to just... not get one, and get a bicycle instead. I'm within biking distance of work, so long as there's no snow on the ground, and we're moving out of the snowy season, so it seems like an acceptable option. Apparently we've already got a trailer to hold my son that we acquired at some point, so I can even use it to bring him around. No insurance, no gas, no bank-breaking repair costs. The health benefits are appealing as well - and on particularly bad weather days, I always have the option of working from home. Public transit is, for the most part, nonexistent in my area - but there is a commuter shuttle from downtown to the commuter rail, and that should do me for visiting family. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Feb 22, 2018 |
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Feb 22, 2018 17:59
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I understand she is getting half. I dont see how that changes the math? So long as I pay off any loans within three years it still seems like I come out well ahead on any equal division wealth splitby doing a loan instead. I might be, or probably am, doing the math wrong though: can you explain more what you mean? Pulling out of my retirement means I am paying almost half again as much for the same money, right? How us a bank loan worse?
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Feb 23, 2018 06:12
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If i take out a personal loan it will be in both of our names with her taking half the payments OR its going to agreed upon in writing that it will shift any wealth division more in my favour by that amount. I dont have any intent to harm myself in this situation (and if she doesnt agree to either of those I will just burn the retirement) it just seems like we would both come out of it better off so long as I can secure a reasonable loan, which is an additional conditional.
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Feb 23, 2018 15:01
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