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If you haven't paid close attention, you might not have heard recently about a scandal involving a certain Larry Nassar, a former team doctor for various gymnastics clubs, including at Michigan State and eventually the USA Olympics team.  He molested over 150 girls, starting at ages as low as 6. Can you think of an Olympic gymnast this century? Guess what , he molested them. All of them. And many more. https://twitter.com/kimberkoz/status/954066895522713602 Recently convicted on child porn charges and sentenced to 60 years in prison, he also pled guilty to 10 counts of sexual assault, and as part of his plea, the presiding judge allowed for his survivors to step forward and speak about their experiences. This issue is finally gaining press due to recent Olympians stepping forward, including Aly Raisman https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/954388027719147521 Oh, and Nassar wrote a 6 page letter to the judge whining about how difficult it was for him to sit through this testimony of all the abuse he had perpetrated. Here's a good breakdown of how this happened. http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/22046031/michigan-state-university-doctor-larry-nassar-surrounded-enablers-abused-athletes-espn Part of the problem was the girls were discredited. In one case, a girl's father killed himself after finally coming to terms with what had happened to his daughter and how he never believed her. https://ca.reuters.com/article/canadaSportsNews/idCAKBN1F52MS-OCASP Part of the problem is that adults weren't allowed at the training camps or hotel rooms on tournaments, where Nassar did many of his evil deeds. Also, sporting bodies tried to cover this up, including USA Gymnastics trying to force Mckayla Maroney to adhere to a NDA to not talk about the abuse she suffered https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mckayla-maroney-says-usa-gymnastics-tried-silence-her-abuse-story-n831416 But the story doesn't end with just one man. The entire sporting world is caught up in all this - including John Geddert, who coached the women's team in 2012. But even now, the USA Gymnastics team still has athletes training at the site of these molestations, the enablers of Nassar are still in power. They're numerous, they're powerful, and they frankly don't give a poo poo about sexual abuse throughout whatever programs they run. Whether they knew (I think they did), or should have known (no loving question), all of them deserve to be punished for their roles as well. Even upon being informed of the FBI investigation, they didn't do anything to stop Nassar or even let the parents know that their children were being sexually abused. This includes the Karolyis, famously vicious to their athletes (effectively grooming them for Nassar) This includes Steve Penny and Kerry Perry at USA Gymnastics, as well as the board of directors (who are in the process of resigning to escape any heat). And this includes Michigan State's president Lou Ann Simon, who has known about this for years and done nothing. Frankly, this includes the Big Ten, and it includes the NCAA. Gymnastics isn't a money generating sport like football or basketball, so what incentive is there for a coverup like at Penn State? Institutional credibility, presumably. And these arrogant assholes at the top of the ladder would rather cover everything up like the Catholic Church than try to prevent a single girl from being violated. And just because Nassar is in prison doesn't mean the trauma stopped - for instance, one gymnast is still receiving medical bills from Michigan State for her 'treatment' at the hands of Nassar, because MSU frankly doesn't care enough to stop billing her for the assault she endured. So what's the answer? After convicting every single person involved, including those listed above, it's time to end sports as part of educational institutions. It won't prevent everything (for instance, at the club level) but it'll sure as hell help stop the coverups. College sports can't police themselves, and they need to end. All of them. This is out of control and god knows what else has been happening for the last hundred years while the adults in the room laughed it off and enjoyed the spotlight of success. And the only way to do this is through lobbying local, state, and federal officials as well as generating awareness of this travesty to further the lobbying effort. OP note: I did adult gymnastics for about 4 years and have heard numerous stories about how vicious the coaching was to many of my friends, some of them up to the varsity college level. I don't know for sure that none of them encountered Nassar, but the thought makes me sick. He was at meets that some of them were at, was that enough for them to go be seen at his training table? All while the coaches and administration knew? It's infuriating, sad, and sickening all at once. mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Jan 23, 2018 |
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Jan 23, 2018 03:41
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Holy poo poo. If anyone tries to argue to you about it being a just world slam their faces into this.
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Jan 23, 2018 04:05
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I love McKayla Moroney, this sucks.
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Jan 23, 2018 04:11
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Holy poo poo.mastershakeman posted:So what's the answer? After convicting every single person involved, including those listed above, it's time to end sports as part of educational institutions. It won't prevent everything (for instance, at the club level) but it'll sure as hell help stop the coverups. College sports can't police themselves, and they need to end. All of them. This seems like a bit of an extreme overreaction. Is there no possibility we could keep the college sports and lose the sexual abuse?
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Jan 23, 2018 04:13
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PureEvil6_13 posted:I love McKayla Moroney, this sucks. McKayla Maroney posted:"It started when I was 13 years old, at one of my first National Team training camps, in Texas, and it didn't end until I left the sport. It seemed whenever and wherever this man could find the chance, I was 'treated,'" she wrote in her public letter. "It happened in London before my team and I won the gold medal, and It happened before I won my Silver. For me, the scariest night of my life happened when I was 15 years old. I had flown all day and night with the team to get to Tokyo. He'd given me a sleeping pill for the flight, and the next thing I know, I was all alone with him in his hotel room getting a 'treatment.' I thought I was going to die that night." WampaLord posted:Holy poo poo. What else is left? It happened at PSU. It happened at Baylor. It happened at MSU. I'd put money on molestation happening elsewhere, too. These aren't one off crimes, they're endemic to the culture of college sports, and in this case, one that generates no money and only a bit of prestige. Is it worth the damaging the lives of hundreds of innocents so that people can take pride in sports? Again, it won't solve everything but it's time to be draconian. Otherwise we can repeat the exercise of going "wow that's horrible how does this keep happening" over and over. mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Jan 23, 2018 |
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Jan 23, 2018 04:14
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WampaLord posted:This seems like a bit of an extreme overreaction. Is there no possibility we could keep the college sports and lose the sexual abuse? Given JoePa and Sandusky, no.
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Jan 23, 2018 04:15
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WampaLord posted:Holy poo poo. It was reported... what, back in the early 90s? And they sat on their asses and did jack gently caress all. The NCAA will do nothing because it "outside their purview", but they should.
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Jan 23, 2018 04:16
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thanks for the post, opWampaLord posted:Holy poo poo. i’m reminded of this part of aly raisman’s statement a few days ago: quote:Larry, you should have been locked up a long, long time ago. The fact is, we have no idea how many people you victimized, or what was done, or not done, that allowed you to keep doing it, and to get away with it for so long. when institutions go bad wl, what do you think the recourse should be
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Jan 23, 2018 04:21
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https://twitter.com/KatieJStrang/status/955557739182379010 https://twitter.com/KatieJStrang/status/955481193771827202 https://twitter.com/KatieJStrang/status/955462928609828864 https://twitter.com/KatieJStrang/status/955457922779279361 https://twitter.com/KatieJStrang/status/954474274575863813 https://twitter.com/KatieJStrang/status/954451737049468928 https://twitter.com/KatieJStrang/status/954393562073923587 https://twitter.com/KatieJStrang/status/954389395594989569 https://twitter.com/KatieJStrang/status/954067474064044032 https://twitter.com/KatieJStrang/status/953375157342568449
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Jan 23, 2018 04:22
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stone cold posted:when institutions go bad wl, what do you think the recourse should be I honestly don't know, but I do know that a large chunk of college students and faculty have a deep investment in their various sports and saying the only solution is to cancel all of them, again, seems extreme. Sometimes extreme solutions are needed, though. Thank you for posting that quote.
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Jan 23, 2018 04:27
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WampaLord posted:I honestly don't know, but I do know that a large chunk of college students and faculty have a deep investment in their various sports and saying the only solution is to cancel all of them, again, seems extreme. being deeply invested in something doesn’t necessarily make it good, and sometimes extreme action is necessary especially when we see such a. bad actors and b. systematic institutional inertia wrt victims to downright malicious action against them it’s a real good quote
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Jan 23, 2018 04:30
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stone cold posted:being deeply invested in something doesn’t necessarily make it good, and sometimes extreme action is necessary especially when we see such a. bad actors and b. systematic institutional inertia wrt victims to downright malicious action against them pretty much. these assholes cared more about money and medals then the welfare of their children athletes. burn it all down as a example to others.
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Jan 23, 2018 04:32
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I wish they would televise what happens to these pieces of poo poo when they get put in prison and enter general population.
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Jan 23, 2018 04:36
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WampaLord posted:I honestly don't know, but I do know that a large chunk of college students and faculty have a deep investment in their various sports and saying the only solution is to cancel all of them, again, seems extreme. Given the Lovecraftian-style cult for JoePa at Penn State, it at least supports the premise of exercising the NCAA death penalty en masse.
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Jan 23, 2018 04:36
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Horseshoe theory posted:Given the Lovecraftian-style cult for JoePa at Penn State, it at least supports the premise of exercising the NCAA death penalty en masse. PSU still having a football team is totally insane, I will say that much. They should have been banned for life from participating in college football at the bare minimum.
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Jan 23, 2018 04:39
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What the gently caress do we do about the fact that apparently a significant chunk of the population (predominantly male) seems to have the idea that they should be able to gently caress and molest men, women and children against their will with impunity, and that they seem to have widespread support to do so in many cases? The scope of the problem is absolutely disgusting and mind-boggling, and it just seems to get bigger and bigger. How do we even start to get a handle on this?
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Jan 23, 2018 04:43
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PT6A posted:What the gently caress do we do about the fact that apparently a significant chunk of the population (predominantly male) seems to have the idea that they should be able to gently caress and molest men, women and children against their will with impunity, and that they seem to have widespread support to do so in many cases? power and privilege probably. this monster probably started with little "allowances" and once he realized no one was gonna do anything(my guess is at "best" some management jack off gave him a stern talking to) he just did it.
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Jan 23, 2018 04:51
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Every program that sheltered him should be destroyed and the college / organization involved should be banned from the sport for 10 years at the minimum. Every member of the administration that had sheltered him should be put next to him in the firing line.
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Jan 23, 2018 04:58
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Dapper_Swindler posted:power and privilege probably. this monster probably started with little "allowances" and once he realized no one was gonna do anything(my guess is at "best" some management jack off gave him a stern talking to) he just did it. To be honest, I'd always really hoped that the main thing stopping people from raping and molesting was more than "if I get caught, it will be bad." That's a five-year-old's level of reasoning. Shouldn't most adults be operating at the level of "I shouldn't do this because it is morally repugnant, owing to the effect it would have on my victim"? And now, for the more frightening thought: what if most adults are operating on that higher level of morality and there's a huge segment of people with pedophilic desires, who don't act on them because it's self-evidently loving deplorable to do so? That's a fairly disturbing thought as well!
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Jan 23, 2018 05:01
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PT6A posted:What the gently caress do we do about the fact that apparently a significant chunk of the population (predominantly male) seems to have the idea that they should be able to gently caress and molest men, women and children against their will with impunity, and that they seem to have widespread support to do so in many cases? There's no good answer beyond "exterminate all men." The patriarchy is so embedded in modern society that it's impossible for women to not be assaulted every moment of every day. Those stats saying that 1 in 4 women will be assaulted or raped are misleading; all women are assaulted either directly or through gaslighting. And all men are guilty of it, either through direct actions or through enabling/benefiting from their societal positions. It's fundamentally impossible for women to be safe in a world that allows men into positions of power. Men have shown that given the slightest of advantages, they will abuse anyone and everyone in their way, especially women and minorities who they view as "less powerful" then them. I know it's going to seem like shitposting, but strip away all of the fancy words and academic language and you've got a world that's built on an imbalance of power that gets more skewed every day, and there's no way to fix it without the elimination of anyone with any sort of privilege.
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Jan 23, 2018 05:41
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PT6A posted:To be honest, I'd always really hoped that the main thing stopping people from raping and molesting was more than "if I get caught, it will be bad." Non-offending pedophiles do exist. They don't molest children and they generally need psychiatric help to help them deal with their urges. Every year or two there's an article about them. I dunno whether or not they've been getting any particular sympathy as a result, but they're not as bad as child molesters and supposedly a lot of child molesters aren't "real" pedophiles (as in "only attracted to children", or whatever) but are instead opportunistic monsters.
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Jan 23, 2018 05:52
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PureEvil6_13 posted:I wish they would televise what happens to these pieces of poo poo when they get put in prison and enter general population. 
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Jan 23, 2018 06:12
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Plenty of girls have been legitmately raped by U of M football players (it's a open secret that you shouldn't date players there unless you want suprise sex :/ ), and nothing has been or is being done about it, they're either kicked out of school, or told to be quiet about it. I hope to God U of M is next on the chopping block, my ex was raped by one of their players who still shows up on tv when there's games. gently caress college sports, all they do is drain money from the academic programs the schools were established for in the first place, gently caress the coaches salaries, and gently caress the fans who stand up for their beloved players who get caught doing poo poo like this. It's not JUST the coaches and team doctors doing this poo poo. gently caress college sports.
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Jan 23, 2018 13:29
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clueless posted:Plenty of girls have been legitmately raped by U of M football players (it's a open secret that you shouldn't date players there unless you want suprise sex :/ ), and nothing has been or is being done about it, they're either kicked out of school, or told to be quiet about it. Look at what happened with Baylor and Penn State (particularly the former in this case). The coach still wants back in, and if it wasn't for the backlash, he'd be coaching still. The problem is college sports make way too much money for the universities (especially at the D-I level) for them to think about doing anything that could potentially hurt the cash flow. They aren't necessarily taking money away from the academic programs (though this undoubtedly does happen), since they are way too profitable for the school, especially football and men's basketball.
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Jan 23, 2018 14:51
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Yet here, the money angle barely applies. I found 2011 records for MSU that said their gymnastics program was a loss of 800k a year. Meanwhile their leadership, including a woman at the top, did absolutely nothing to prevent her employee from his systematic rapes. And as to a gender issue, Marta Karolyi is absolutely part of the problem and oversaw and assuredly ignored all the abuse both at her camp and at the worlds/Olympics teams. So this scandal isn't about money, it isn't about men protecting men - it's systemic across everyone even in sports that only matter for 4 weeks total every decade. That's what makes it even more shocking than a cover-up for a football team that's focused on protecting the gravy train. This scandal shows it's just about protecting institutions at the expense of everyone else, and since it keeps happening in different places they need to pay.
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Jan 23, 2018 14:58
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It's always insane to me that at the core of these sorts of cases it's just one guy who may not even be at the top, but literally everyone is willing to cover and feed more kids to them. It's so evil and frankly I agree gently caress these sports but realistically I don't see how they could ever be divested from colleges since people care way more about watching their team win than the amount of people that get thrown to rapists. There was recently a story where Maryland public schools covered for some teacher's aid molesting students in a similar way. It just doesn't seem to matter who it is but institutions are absolutely fine leaving these monsters around their victims. EDIT: Haha I just looked it up and of course he was also the track coach. gently caress school sports.
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Jan 23, 2018 15:05
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iospace posted:It was reported... what, back in the early 90s? And they sat on their asses and did jack gently caress all. Given how incompetent the NCAA wrt literally everything else, having them in charge of these massive sex abuse scandals is not ideal
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Jan 23, 2018 15:50
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Remember that period of time when our society was smugly patting itself on the back and mocking the Catholic Church after that whole fiasco was uncovered? Like "oh man we totally weeded out that single isolated powerful organization that ignores and covers up child sex abuse!". How naive were we to think that this epidemic didn't likely infect pretty much every single large organization that has the power and opportunity to take advantage of children (or women, or any sort of at-risk portion of the population).
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Jan 23, 2018 15:58
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The terrifying prospect is that it's quite possible, if you ask Americans to choose between "mass molestation, but I get to watch sportball" and "children saved, but no sportball" it's quite possible Americans will choose sportball. In terms of general American culture, pedophilia seems like an act that is stigmatized because its commission Otherizes the perpetrator ("one of those sick fucks" etc), not because of the crime itself. Therefore if the crime is committed by someone who is definitionally not an Other -- i.e., say, a sportball coach like Paterno, a political leader like Roy Moore -- the crime is simply ignored.
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Jan 23, 2018 16:02
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It's not quite possible, it's absolutely assured. People will sacrifice as many children and young adults to sex predators as is necessary to keep the sports going.
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Jan 23, 2018 16:12
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Banning college sports would effectively destroy American sports as we know them. Whether that's good or bad is a matter of your perspective, but either way it's absurd to even suggest it could happen in our lifetimes. The problem, as mentioned earlier, comes up in any scenario with extreme power dynamics. I'm far more interested in the actual ramifications for USAG and MSU, whose students are clamoring for Simon to resign but whose board is supporting her for god knows what reason. If I were an alum I'd be blowing up their inboxes with angry letters and emails. Donors need to put a freeze on giving them money immediately.
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Jan 23, 2018 16:17
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PT6A posted:To be honest, I'd always really hoped that the main thing stopping people from raping and molesting was more than "if I get caught, it will be bad." depends on how your caught(i read/listen/watch way to much true crime) its kinda of thing unfortunately if your in some "high power position" and/or are critical to it and its success. my guess is this dude never was, the higher ups either didn't believe/didn't care about it. at some point, shithead realized he could keep doing it free of repercussions.
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Jan 23, 2018 16:26
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Henchman of Santa posted:Banning college sports would effectively destroy American sports as we know them. Why do Americans think this? Most every other country in the world has a non-university-based player development system for some/all of their sports. They still have the occasional issue with pedophiles, unfortunately, but it's absurd to suggest that professional sports depends on the NCAA system.
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Jan 23, 2018 17:01
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The NCAA is an absolute scam. Coaches and colleges getting rich while the players get "experience" is totally not needed for sports to exist. It's needed for those institutions and individuals to get paid large amounts of money which is why they won't go anywhere.
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Jan 23, 2018 17:03
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PT6A posted:Why do Americans think this? It wouldn't destroy sports, but it would destroy a lot of colleges. Most colleges rely on sports to drive alumni donations and fundraising, to the point that many, many, many schools are functionally just support systems for a sportball team. There are multiple states where the coach of the state university football team is the highest paid state employee -- i.e., higher than the governor, higher than the guy running the nuclear plant, the single highest paid state employee period.
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Jan 23, 2018 17:04
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It wouldn't destroy sports, but it would destroy a lot of colleges. That makes more sense.
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Jan 23, 2018 17:06
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Mahoning posted:Remember that period of time when our society was smugly patting itself on the back and mocking the Catholic Church after that whole fiasco was uncovered? Like "oh man we totally weeded out that single isolated powerful organization that ignores and covers up child sex abuse!". How naive were we to think that this epidemic didn't likely infect pretty much every single large organization that has the power and opportunity to take advantage of children (or women, or any sort of at-risk portion of the population). Obviously the solution is to have the pope, the leader of US college sports, and the UK PM fight each other.
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Jan 23, 2018 17:10
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Horseshoe theory posted:Given the Lovecraftian-style cult for JoePa at Penn State, it at least supports the premise of exercising the NCAA death penalty en masse. It's really disgusting and was eye-opening for me to see people I went to school with, who were at PSU during Paterno's last days, whom I thought to be decent, good people, stick their necks out to defend the monster. I'm sure some of them still do. The sports cult of personality is strong and destructive. I'm glad that fucker died in disgrace. Sports do bad things to people. Or maybe they were always bad and sports give them an outlet. Kill your heroes.
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Jan 23, 2018 17:10
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Can you think of anything that encourages extreme competitiveness that doesn't also produce terrible people?
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Jan 23, 2018 17:12
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