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Feinne posted:There'd be abuses even if there were no money at all involved, because winning is its own reward. Yup. It also isn't even limited to the major sports either. If a college has a team of any sort that has a reputation they'll chase the gently caress out of any prominent high school student that is very good. Basketball, football, baseball, swimming, track, diving...doesn't matter. If the school has a respected team they want to keep it that way. Free rides for academically weak students, bullshit blowoff classes, anything they can get away with legally, and anything illegal they can manage to hide they'll do. College sports is just a mess overall.
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Mar 30, 2018 20:16
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Frankly anytime someone has power over others it goes right to people heads. Even an assistant manager will take a tone with people. It might not be absolute but it's pervasive
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Mar 30, 2018 22:14
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mandatory lesbian posted:Uh I mean yeah it kinda does have to start at some point I'm going to go with "smaller offenses likely led up to this rather than he was a perfectly professional physician until one fateful day ..."
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Mar 30, 2018 22:30
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Its almost like the athletes are being cynically exploited with treatment and attention by authority figures sabotaging their long-term prospects by romanticizing a system that treats them as a disposable commodity that realistically offers no chance of success for 99% of the participants but satiates some physicality related need for adults that don't really care despite the Horatio Alger fantasy they're selling to kids dumb enough to trust them and athletic enough for the adults to want to look at them. Its very weird to imagine that adults comfortable exploiting kids in a position of trust would be willing to exploit them in other ways that seem to be the norm over and over and over again. I'm very, very, very weird to see that at all. Thankfully we have respectable people who don't see anything weird about the situation.
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Mar 30, 2018 22:31
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Sneakster posted:...I'm very, very, very weird... Freudian typo?
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Mar 30, 2018 22:32
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PT6A posted:Freudian typo?
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Mar 30, 2018 23:27
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Yup. It also isn't even limited to the major sports either. If a college has a team of any sort that has a reputation they'll chase the gently caress out of any prominent high school student that is very good. Basketball, football, baseball, swimming, track, diving...doesn't matter. If the school has a respected team they want to keep it that way. Free rides for academically weak students, bullshit blowoff classes, anything they can get away with legally, and anything illegal they can manage to hide they'll do. I know of someone who managed to have a diving team built around him at a D-I school. Diving.
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Mar 31, 2018 05:11
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PT6A posted:I agree, the NCAA can and should be destroyed. But destroying the universities that make it up? That’s pretty much every university. Destroy the sports programs to the ground and salt the earth, sure, and destroy the universities that did particularly heinous things, like Penn State and MSU, but I think destroying every university with a sports program, pragmatically speaking, is simply unworkable. Unless I’m misunderstanding what’s being said? Universities cover up a lot more rape than just sports stuff. Nearly all of my friends were raped at some point in college and all but one were pressured by administering not to "ruin a young man's life over an honest mistake". Universities have a culture of abusing women and covering it up for the sake of reputation and important donors. It took my school 15 years to ban a frat whose house was a notorious rape zone. It's not sports, it's power structures. Especially patriarchal power structures. That's why we keep shouting to burn all institutions, not just burn all sports teams.
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Mar 31, 2018 06:59
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cis autodrag posted:Universities cover up a lot more rape than just sports stuff. Nearly all of my friends were raped at some point in college and all but one were pressured by administering not to "ruin a young man's life over an honest mistake". Universities have a culture of abusing women and covering it up for the sake of reputation and important donors. It took my school 15 years to ban a frat whose house was a notorious rape zone. Then what?
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Apr 19, 2018 19:47
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General Dog posted:Then what? then things get better? what kind of a question is this
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Apr 19, 2018 19:48
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botany posted:then things get better? what kind of a question is this Haha yes, just burn all institutions then things get magically better  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 19, 2018 20:02
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It's easy to say just burn everything to the ground. Doesn't take thought or nuance or intellect to do that! But to actually come up with workable solutions that actually make the world better? You have to be smart to do that. A level of intellect that is in short supply here : (
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Apr 19, 2018 20:06
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tsa posted:It's easy to say just burn everything to the ground. Doesn't take thought or nuance or intellect to do that! But to actually come up with workable solutions that actually make the world better? You have to be smart to do that. A level of intellect that is in short supply here : ( i guess you would know about lack of intellect 
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Apr 19, 2018 20:14
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It should be obvious that just destroying the existing system does not magically create a better one.
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Apr 19, 2018 20:52
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it should be obvious that destroying existing systems gets rid of those systems
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Apr 19, 2018 20:54
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please dont gently caress this thread up with this bullshit
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Apr 19, 2018 21:08
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please go gently caress yourself (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 19, 2018 21:11
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awesmoe posted:please dont gently caress this thread up with this bullshit
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Apr 19, 2018 22:35
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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tsa posted:It's easy to say just burn everything to the ground. Doesn't take thought or nuance or intellect to do that! But to actually come up with workable solutions that actually make the world better? You have to be smart to do that. A level of intellect that is in short supply here : ( The "burn everything into the ground and magically a pure replacement will emerge" is a dumb take that keeps coming up in this thread.
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Apr 20, 2018 02:16
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how many more people have to be raped before the Very Serious People in the thread will admit that slow methodical reform of bad institutions isn’t preferable to burning them down and starting over
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Apr 20, 2018 02:22
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If you are going to burn it all down, you need a detailed plan for what will replace the system, because people will still wanna play college sports. Just burning the system down without a thought for what comes next just seems an act of nihilistic destruction.
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Apr 20, 2018 03:51
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Pharohman777 posted:If you are going to burn it all down, you need a detailed plan for what will replace the system, because people will still wanna play college sports. It's an act of prioritizing stopping the rapes over playing sports. Let's, you know, stop all the loving rapes and then we can worry about how people can safely play basketball. Your argument is employed by people to avoid ever doing anything by always saying any plan isn't detailed enough. Do you care more about sports or rape victims?
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Apr 20, 2018 04:23
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But how will people do sports without universities and a corrupt governing body that cares more about an absurd definition of amateurism than it does about people being raped??? This is a very serious question and I'm not simply defending rapists and their enablers. I'm willing to accept that maybe at some point there existed a solution that didn't involve the complete destruction of these institutions, but they KEPT loving UP, and now we just have no choice. Don't like it? Well, gently caress off, I suppose you should've governed yourselves better so we didn't have to do this.
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Apr 20, 2018 04:58
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Probably something that requires more of a controlled burn. College sports has basically become irreparably corrupt at this point so burn that down. Greek life also has serious problems; does a frat have a reputation for being a rape house? Burn it down. But the whole education system? That's a bit extreme.
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Apr 20, 2018 05:27
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cis autodrag posted:It's an act of prioritizing stopping the rapes over playing sports. Let's, you know, stop all the loving rapes and then we can worry about how people can safely play basketball. But what if imprisoning all the rapists does damage to fabric of our precious instituion
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Apr 20, 2018 05:35
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But the alumni love this rapist!
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Apr 20, 2018 05:43
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Pharohman777 posted:If you are going to burn it all down, you need a detailed plan for what will replace the system, because people will still wanna go do rapes fixed that for you. If you just burn down college sports I wouldn’t consider that a great loss, but abusive assholes will just gravitate to every other kind of position that gets them access to victims.
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Apr 20, 2018 08:32
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suck my woke dick posted:fixed that for you. If you just burn down college sports I wouldn’t consider that a great loss, but abusive assholes will just gravitate to every other kind of position that gets them access to victims. That does rather ignore the fact that the current system appears to be enabling a disproportionate number of rapes.
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Apr 20, 2018 09:12
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Darth Walrus posted:That does rather ignore the fact that the current system appears to be enabling a disproportionate number of rapes. The truely scary thing is that this is an open question.
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Apr 20, 2018 14:13
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Sneakster posted:Most adults are dangerous predators restrained by opportunity and reputation. This is an incredibly worrying statement, by the way. It may not carry quite the connotation you were expecting.
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Apr 20, 2018 15:20
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mdemone posted:This is an incredibly worrying statement, by the way. It may not carry quite the connotation you were expecting. I think it can be taken a number of ways. The way I look at the issue is: right now, to be an offender, you have to a) have the desire to commit rape/molestation, b) not understand or care about the effect of acting on that desire to the victim, c) not be afraid of the consequences of getting caught, and d) have the opportunity to offend. We know that, sadly, there are a lot of rapists and child molesters in this world, simply because we know there are far too many victims. But the frightening thing is that logic would suggest that there are lots of people who have that desire, but don't fit one or more of criteria b, c and d above. I don't know if that's a fixable problem, but the factors we can control as a society are making sure that there are less opportunities to offend in the first place, and making potential offenders realize they are likely to get caught and the consequences will be severe. That's why it's crucial that we destroy any institutions that provide access for offenders to target victims, or protect them from the consequences of their actions after the fact.
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Apr 20, 2018 15:39
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PT6A posted:I think it can be taken a number of ways. One of the biggest snags are enablers, really; in the case of Nassar there are a lot of people who should already be in jail with him. Anybody that knew it was going on and either helped it happen or helped cover it up deserve to be punished just as much as he does. Also in his case he managed to create this aura around himself that he was a super awesome standup dude who just wanted to doctor the hell out of gymnastics so the people doing it could follow their dreams. If memory serves that's one of the reasons that your predatory personalities focus heavily on their image; if you can convince everybody you're not a monster then you can hide the fact that you are. The people who knowingly helped that along and created the extremely rigid system where you never, ever questioned anything the authorities told you are complicit in his actions. Really anybody who responded to accusations with "what, you think he's capable of that? No, he's too nice. Go away" is just as much of a problem as the monster. I think there probably are lots of people who have had thoughts about sex crimes but never acted on them. Overall I think most people have been tempted to commit a serious crime at least once in their life but what makes the difference between a monster and a normal person is that the normal person can think "no, it would be wrong to act on that so I won't." You're right, though; institutions that allow predators to prey on others with impunity or help it along need to be dealt with harshly. Repeating myself but the people that helped Nassar get away with it are just as guilty as he is.
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Apr 20, 2018 22:50
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mdemone posted:This is an incredibly worrying statement, by the way. It may not carry quite the connotation you were expecting. It is probably accurate though. If you give people a week during which they have legal immunity for anything they do you’ll most likely end up with a worrying proportion going out to do rapes and murders. KennyTheFish posted:The truely scary thing is that this is an open question. *looks at all the other mass rape/child abuse coming to light* I seriously doubt that college sports is a rare exception here.
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Apr 21, 2018 09:26
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suck my woke dick posted:It is probably accurate though. If you give people a week during which they have legal immunity for anything they do you’ll most likely end up with a worrying proportion going out to do rapes and murders. 
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Apr 21, 2018 19:20
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Let me show you a little film series called “The Purge”
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Apr 21, 2018 19:32
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https://twitter.com/dhmontgomery/status/997540598805618689
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May 18, 2018 19:40
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Hey, remember that old chestnut about institutions?
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May 19, 2018 04:44
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You know what would be funny? If there was a loophole where this didn't include lobbying from a non-profit.
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May 19, 2018 04:47
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jit bull transpile posted:Hey, remember that old chestnut about institutions? ok let's build new institutions i'm sure they won't be as corrupt for at least one or two weeks until everyone has settled in (clearly, the answer is permanent revolution)
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May 20, 2018 04:45
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suck my woke dick posted:ok let's build new institutions i'm sure they won't be as corrupt for at least one or two weeks until everyone has settled in (clearly, the answer is permanent revolution) I mean, what else can you do when you have a university that shelters a rapist, and a government that covers the university's rear end by locking the victims out of fighting for change if the want deserved compensation? That's a virtuous cycle of institutional corruption that can only be fixed by tearing out the roots. Anything we put in its place will necessarily need structure and rules that recognizes this possibility and has measures in place to prevent that. And before you say "propose such a structure" as an out to shut down conversation, I don't have an easy proposal. Stating the problem is the easy part, yet a lot of people can't even seem to handle that when it comes to this topic.
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May 22, 2018 04:38
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