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Maybe I'm just not a serious sportsball fan, but if any team I support was found to be sheltering pedophiles, I wouldn't require even two seconds of thought to never loving cheer for them again. Life will go on, I'll find another team to support, one that doesn't enable heinous crimes.
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Jan 23, 2018 17:13
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PT6A posted:Why do Americans think this? I think the NCAA needs to burn to the ground, but I'm not convinced that the way other countries do it is any better or safer. In fact, many of those youth academies operate more similarly to USA Gymnastics than American collegiate sports.
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Jan 23, 2018 17:28
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It wouldn't destroy sports, but it would destroy a lot of colleges. In helpful map form: 
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Jan 23, 2018 17:37
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Kalli posted:In helpful map form: Yeeeeup. I mean, you'd think that "this literally destroys your brain" would have killed college football, but nope. I'm not sure any force in American public life, short of racism, is powerful enough to unseat or even significantly reduce the prominence of college sports.
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Jan 23, 2018 17:42
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I’m glad guy made the sports thread in a forum where people think “sports ball” is funny or acceptable.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:02
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Work Friend Keven posted:I’m glad guy made the sports thread in a forum where people think “sports ball” is funny or acceptable. This isn't just a sports scandal, that's the whole reason this poo poo keeps happening. If you focus only on the few coaches involved and not the board of directors or president of the universities, these abuses will continue.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:04
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The reason "sportsball" is a funny and acceptable joke in this circumstance is because the sporting element is 100% irrelevant to the problem, and referring to it in a generic, ridiculous fashion helps underline the inherent absurdity of sports-based tribalism and how it can result in large-scale coverups of child molestation and other horrible things.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:08
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mastershakeman posted:This isn't just a sports scandal, that's the whole reason this poo poo keeps happening. If you focus only on the few coaches involved and not the board of directors or president of the universities, these abuses will continue. They fired the coaches, ADs and university presidents in both Baylor and Penn State scandals
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Jan 23, 2018 18:14
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PT6A posted:Why do Americans think this? The key words being "as we know them"
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Jan 23, 2018 18:14
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Henchman of Santa posted:The key words being "as we know them" Except the NHL, NFL, NBA, MLB, MLS, etc. will still exist more or less exactly as they exist right now, regardless of where the talent is developed.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:17
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Interview with a MSU board trustee starts at about 23 minutes in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e89IWTGdIuQ "Can't fire the president of the school, so many donors support the president and we had them in recently..." Just an insane amount of trying to sweep this under the rug. edit: I think college sports are more ripe for this kind of 'naaah, everything's fine.' Alumni, and I say this as someone with his school's first Naismith winner in his profile, hold their college as a huge part of their identity. It's pretty easy to think that it's not an issue, our college is great and awesome and therefore I'm great and awesome since living in the real world would mean my school covered up sexual assault of minors for two decades, and I wouldn't do anything like that! Coco13 fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Jan 23, 2018 |
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Jan 23, 2018 18:17
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Work Friend Keven posted:I’m glad guy made the sports thread in a forum where people think “sports ball” is funny or acceptable. http://www.somethingawful.com/news/its-time-be/
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Jan 23, 2018 18:17
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PT6A posted:Except the NHL, NFL, NBA, MLB, MLS, etc. will still exist more or less exactly as they exist right now, regardless of where the talent is developed. The NFL would have to radically change how they develop talent and they're by far the most powerful sports organization in the country. They would not relinquish their free minor league without a major fight.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:18
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https://twitter.com/KatieJStrang/status/955844860858322944 Jesus christ
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Jan 23, 2018 18:20
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exploded mummy posted:They fired the coaches, ADs and university presidents in both Baylor and Penn State scandals A few fall guys so that the institutions could carry on doing what they always do. Penny resigned in this scandal, but so what? How does that prevent any future abuse?
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Jan 23, 2018 18:21
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I mean, you'd think that "this literally destroys your brain" would have killed college football, but nope. I'm not sure any force in American public life, short of racism, is powerful enough to unseat or even significantly reduce the prominence of college sports. Between realizing just how dangerous football really is to young men and trying to escape the dumpster fire of political animus around the anthem, I swore off watching the sport. It was easier than I thought it would be. I thought I had finally cast off the last vestiges of my lizard-brain-enthusiasm for the sport. But then the birds had to go and clinch home field advantage in the playoffs. Then they made it to the NFC championship. Now, after breaking my abstinence this past weekend to watch the Eagles dominate Minnesota and make it to the super bowl, my lizard brain is screaming "E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!". Now I find myself strutting around with pride and feeling strange sensations in my loins when I see pictures of Nick Foles. But if I found out the Eagles organization was perpetuating child molestation? gently caress all of them. Forever. I'd be a Cowboys fan before I'd forgive them for that poo poo.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:30
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mastershakeman posted:A few fall guys so that the institutions could carry on doing what they always do. Penny resigned in this scandal, but so what? How does that prevent any future abuse? You both claimed that university presidents should be fired because of these scandals...and they have. And in Penn State, the president was even criminally convicted and sent to prison.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:38
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exploded mummy posted:You both claimed that university presidents should be fired because of these scandals...and they have. And in Penn State, the president was even criminally convicted and sent to prison. The MSU one hasn’t been
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Jan 23, 2018 18:40
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mastershakeman posted:A few fall guys so that the institutions could carry on doing what they always do. Penny resigned in this scandal, but so what? How does that prevent any future abuse? So if we burn down college athletics and leave opportunistic money hungry predators (like the assholes involved in youth leagues like AAU or the youth hockey leagues that have also been rife with sexual abuse) to pick up the pieces, how does THAT prevent future abuse?
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Jan 23, 2018 18:44
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Preventing further abuse is practically going to take a change in human nature. Abuse cover up has happened in nearly every sector of our lives, not just sports. It may even get worse without universities because then you will see people desperately trying to protect their business from collapsing. Even suggesting that we make punishments worse for those who perpetuate the cover up may make things worse too because now you have people even more afraid of the repercussions when the abuse comes to light. Most of these issues really stem from, abuse happens, people in charge maybe don't find out for months or years later. People in charge get scared of telling anyone because then it comes out that it took them 6 months, or a year, or whatever, to find out something was wrong. Everyone just lets it keep going with the hopes that one day they never have to face the consequences. I know I'm not providing any answers, but I'm not really sure there is an answer aside from people just need to do the right thing, no matter the consequences.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:52
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Work Friend Keven posted:I’m glad guy made the sports thread in a forum where people think “sports ball” is funny or acceptable. what do you think about the coverup of 200 children being raped, keven?
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Jan 23, 2018 19:00
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Willie Tomg posted:what do you think about the coverup of 200 children being raped, keven? It doesn't make "sportsball" not an idiotic phrase
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Jan 23, 2018 19:04
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It's good to be pedantic in the face of horrific child abuse, aw yeah, feels good
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Jan 23, 2018 19:05
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Henchman of Santa posted:It doesn't make "sportsball" not an idiotic phrase your brain is incredibly broken
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Jan 23, 2018 19:09
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Willie Tomg posted:what do you think about the coverup of 200 children being raped, keven? That depends. I mean was it a clip or a magazine?
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Jan 23, 2018 19:10
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I clearly should have said "foopball" instead If we're doubling down though, yeah, focusing on whether or not the word "sportball" is "acceptable" seems like misplaced emphasis here
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Jan 23, 2018 19:10
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Willie Tomg posted:your brain is incredibly broken For trying to have the discussion be somewhat serious?
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Jan 23, 2018 19:12
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*cracks knuckles* Alright gang let's get down to brass tacks: these kids were not raped playing "Sports Ball" and to use such terms demeans and delegitimizes the hard work of our athletes and faculty. Let's stay focused on the topic at hand, here. And now to see what that topic i--WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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Jan 23, 2018 19:13
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Willie Tomg posted:*cracks knuckles* Alright gang let's get down to brass tacks: these kids were not raped playing "Sports Ball" and to use such terms demeans and delegitimizes the hard work of our athletes and faculty. Let's stay focused on the topic at hand, here. You have yet to make a single contribution about the actual topic dude
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Jan 23, 2018 19:14
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Radish posted:It's always insane to me that at the core of these sorts of cases it's just one guy who may not even be at the top, but literally everyone is willing to cover and feed more kids to them. It's so evil and frankly I agree gently caress these sports but realistically I don't see how they could ever be divested from colleges since people care way more about watching their team win than the amount of people that get thrown to rapists. Here's how this happens: Someone gets a report of some wrongdoing. They (wrongly) consider it frivolous or non-credible and do nothing. Some time passes and they get another report of the same activity from a different person. Well poo poo, now they're in a real bind. If they investigate this one then people are going to ask why they didn't look into the other one. So they again ignore it or if they're forced to investigate they find nothing bad happened. This goes on and on until eventually the dam breaks and people go public. People were too busy covering their asses and trying not to look bad and as a result every Olympic female gymnast has been molested (along with countless others). Or kids got raped in a shower in Pennsylvania. Or women were raped and browbeaten in Texas. It's a culture issue yes, but it's also that people are more worried about saving their own asses than doing the right thing. I've seen this in my like and work and by and large people are very, very aethical. They're not unethical but they don't go out of their way to do the right thing when its hard. Sure they do it when it's easy, but when there's a risk or might be a cost or consequence to them? That's when the mouths stay shut and the silence remains. I have no idea how to fix it, other than celebrating those who do take the very scary and difficult action of doing the ethical thing. edit: unironically calling sports "sportsball" is  as gently caress.exploded mummy posted:They fired the coaches, ADs and university presidents in both Baylor and Penn State scandals That's like, the minimum required standard though. The PSU punishments were laughable: a postseason ban (the team sucked anyway) and rescinding some scholarships. Even then the PSU fans howled bloody murder and the NCAA eventually was forced to rescind the punishments. gently caress, did Baylor even get punished? That's the insane thing to me. You have massive, horrific sexual abuse rings and the NCAA shrugs. Meanwhile Reggie Bush gets paid under the table and is forced to return his Heisman trophy. Something is seriously wrong here. axeil fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Jan 23, 2018 |
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Jan 23, 2018 19:18
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axeil posted:Here's how this happens: One big step is educating people to take allegations seriously and investigate them and document that they have investigated them, and hold people responsible for not investigating. That said it is going to be a frequent occurrence that specific allegations will be "unfounded," especially among vulnerable populations, because prosecutors have discretion and aren't going to file a case unless they are very sure of conviction, but the more you establish a track record the more credibility each independent allegation adds.
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Jan 23, 2018 19:25
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axeil posted:Here's how this happens: Look at the David Bliss case for example. Baylor, early in the 2000's had one basketball player murder another. An assistant coach secretly recorded head coach David Bliss plotting to cover up cash payments he had made to the player (an NCAA violation) by painting him as a drug dealer. Bliss ended up eventually getting another head coaching job, while the assistant has been completely black balled and had his life destroyed. (For those that don't follow sports, this is a very different Baylor case then the mass rape scandal they just went through).
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Jan 23, 2018 19:27
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:One big step is educating people to take allegations seriously and investigate them and document that they have investigated them, and hold people responsible for not investigating. I think the issue is that there's such a huge incentive to cover things up or do internal investigations that find nothing. The Outrage Machine gets going against your school and suddenly you don't have donors donating, kids aren't applying, people aren't coming to games, etc. Making the punishments stricter may just make things worse as now people are gonna really go to the ends of the earth to cover things up if the punishment is all but public execution. What are the lives of a few/a dozen/a few dozen people to save your career and institution? At the same time, if the punishment is a slap on the wrist, then the victims won't get any justice. I think one of the things we've seen with sports, the Catholic Church, policing, etc. is that people fundamentally are incapable of policing themselves. The only way you can change this is to make the right choice also the easy choice...but hell if I know how to do that. axeil fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Jan 23, 2018 |
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Jan 23, 2018 19:31
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Penn State whistleblower Mike McQueary is currently divorced, unemployed, and living with his parents. Greg Schiano is the defensive coordinator for Ohio State, making $700,000/year.
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Jan 23, 2018 19:32
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Mahoning posted:Penn State whistleblower Mike McQueary is currently divorced, unemployed, and living with his parents. Exactly. Typically what you get for bringing abuse or wrong-doing to light is the destruction of your career and everything you love and care about because the institution you've destroyed uses the last of its power and influence to smear and destroy you. Look what happened to the Enron whistleblowers. Or Snowden (although that case is a bit different). It is very, very painful and difficult for people to come forward when an organization they're a part of is doing something wrong/covering things up.
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Jan 23, 2018 19:34
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I had heard the story from the Olympians part but it really didn't hit for me until the MSU President mass e-mailed last week to start the preliminary covering of MSU's rear end with, "We sympathize with the victims but ultimately have to dispute civil claims." As an alumni I'm not really in a position to be making huge charitable donations, but this has really put me off wanting to be involved in ANY capacity.
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Jan 23, 2018 19:38
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I was an MSU fan growing up and almost went there so they had a soft spot. No more. gently caress them forever.
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Jan 23, 2018 19:41
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axeil posted:Exactly. Typically what you get for bringing abuse or wrong-doing to light is the destruction of your career and everything you love and care about because the institution you've destroyed uses the last of its power and influence to smear and destroy you. It doesn't have to even actively destroy you. Everyone else has something to hide too, so you don't get hired. Our society is so pervasively unjust that whistleblowers are inherently terrifying.
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Jan 23, 2018 19:50
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axeil posted:It's a culture issue yes, but it's also that people are more worried about saving their own asses than doing the right thing. I've seen this in my like and work and by and large people are very, very aethical. They're not unethical but they don't go out of their way to do the right thing when its hard. Sure they do it when it's easy, but when there's a risk or might be a cost or consequence to them? That's when the mouths stay shut and the silence remains. And that's the issue. It's the case of absolute power corrupting absolutely once again. What the institution does doesn't matter, we've seen it from sports to religion to business to whatever. What matters is that men are in a position of power and use it to abuse anyone who isn't them. And people who aren't actively affected don't speak up because they don't want anything bad to happen to them because the vast majority of people are cowards. The answer is that men cannot be in positions of power over women. They will abuse their privilege every time without exception, even if it's not in sexually explicit or exploitative ways.
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Jan 23, 2018 19:50
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C. Everett Koop posted:And that's the issue. It's the case of absolute power corrupting absolutely once again. What the institution does doesn't matter, we've seen it from sports to religion to business to whatever. What matters is that men are in a position of power and use it to abuse anyone who isn't them. And people who aren't actively affected don't speak up because they don't want anything bad to happen to them because the vast majority of people are cowards. Keep in mind that Michigan State president Lou Anna Simon is a woman. Dismissing allegations and covering up abuse is not unique to men, even if the abusing itself mostly is.
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Jan 23, 2018 19:57
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