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C. Everett Koop posted:And that's the issue. It's the case of absolute power corrupting absolutely once again. What the institution does doesn't matter, we've seen it from sports to religion to business to whatever. What matters is that men are in a position of power and use it to abuse anyone who isn't them. And people who aren't actively affected don't speak up because they don't want anything bad to happen to them because the vast majority of people are cowards. Ok, how does that solve anything regarding the Penn State case.
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Jan 23, 2018 19:58
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exploded mummy posted:Ok, how does that solve anything regarding the Penn State case. .....or the Catholic Church, or youth hockey, or soccer in England, or.....
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Jan 23, 2018 20:03
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PT6A posted:Why do Americans think this? Quoting from a couple pages back to address this: The NHL doesn't depend on colleges as a "free minor league". A large amount of NHL prospects come up through the Canadian junior leagues, where they do actually get paid if they make it to the top level of it (and thus can't be eligible for NCAA play if they don't make it to the NHL). That's not also getting into overseas prospects which do make up a good chunk of the players. A few bigger name players do come out of the NCAA, but not many do (the most recognizable names are almost all from the CHL or overseas at this point). The NBA somewhat does, but only because it requires people to be one year removed from their high school class before they can be drafted, either by spending at least one year in college or at an overseas league (which leads to the "one and done" system in a lot of colleges). They also implemented a minor league team for every NBA team now as well. Baseball also largely doesn't (I forget the exact rules here, mostly because it's not brought up much), but that's also because of its extensive (very poorly) paid minor league system. The NFL is the only real US sport that needs the NCAA as free minors. The other three of the big four could survive without it, though NBA and MLB would have to make some relatively easy adjustments compared to the NFL. The problem is, and this is part of the whole overarching problem including that with MSU, is that these people hear about it, and they see two options: 1. Rock the boat, and potentially cause the entire house of cards to tumble down, but at what cost? 2. Do nothing. It is especially noteworthy that universities will bend over backwards for a star football player (and occasionally a star basketball player, depending on how big the CBB program is) because it's such a massive cash cow for them. And here's my surprise when they look the other way when a staff member does it:  . It's probably SOP to look the other way at this point for many universities, no matter who's causing it.
iospace fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Jan 23, 2018 |
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Jan 23, 2018 20:11
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Kalli posted:Look at the David Bliss case for example. Baylor, early in the 2000's had one basketball player murder another. An assistant coach secretly recorded head coach David Bliss plotting to cover up cash payments he had made to the player (an NCAA violation) by painting him as a drug dealer. Bliss ended up eventually getting another head coaching job, while the assistant has been completely black balled and had his life destroyed. Bliss has been blackballed from the NCAA and anything major though. I think he's spent most of the past decade coaching high school or equivalent basketball.
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Jan 23, 2018 20:20
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exploded mummy posted:Bliss has been blackballed from the NCAA and anything major though. I think he's spent most of the past decade coaching high school or equivalent basketball. He went D-league, high school, NAIA and now high school again
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Jan 23, 2018 20:23
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If we remove colleges and universities from the sporting landscape, we also remove Title IX as a method of investigating and enforcing Federal law in cases of sexual abuse/assault. If there's just some random minor league football team in some small town in Oklahoma or something, you're basically leaving the investigating up to the local police. I don't think that fixes anything and very likely makes things worse.
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Jan 23, 2018 20:29
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axeil posted:Here's how this happens: Yeah that's how I envision it going. I think the answer is for every report to be investigated immediately so we don't hit the point where people in charge have to explain why they did nothing initially and aren't invested in covering their rear end. I know some companies are very explicit that managers have to report EVERYTHING they get told in regards to abuse to HR in order to avoid this sort of thing.
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Jan 23, 2018 20:38
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as gently caress.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e89IWTGdIuQ 25 minutes in, MSU trustee says 'we have more going on than just this 'nassar thing' and that they discussed Simon for 10 minutes out of their 5 hour trustee meeting. Brings up donors multiple times in relation to Simon. He doesn't loving care whatsoever and thinks people will move on when they find out that Nassar was 'on an island by himself' and that Simon will absolutely not get 'ran outta there by what someone else did.' Then he laughs about whether the NCAA might get involved. Laughs.
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Jan 23, 2018 22:06
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mastershakeman posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e89IWTGdIuQ Is "more going on" that Richard Spencer is coming to campus?
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Jan 23, 2018 22:28
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are we pretending now that schools are super great with title ix enforcement because uh that’s darkly hilarious
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Jan 23, 2018 23:06
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stone cold posted:are we pretending now that schools are super great with title ix enforcement because uh No, nobody said that. That’s not even the point. The failure of Title IX to be properly enforced should not lead us to eliminating those protections completely for thousands of young athletes by removing sports from colleges and universities.
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Jan 23, 2018 23:16
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Mahoning posted:No, nobody said that. That’s not even the point. what about the collegiate athletic system leads you to believe the protections are being more strictly enforced than the victimization
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Jan 23, 2018 23:26
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Mattie Larson had a great impact statement today talking about how she purposely faked a fall in the shower just to get away from Nassar. She capped the whole thing off with “I can’t even put into words how much I loving hate you.” https://deadspin.com/mattie-larson-to-larry-nassar-on-day-six-of-sentencing-1822348327
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Jan 24, 2018 00:42
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are people actually kramering into a thread about the largest sports scandal in history to complain about somebody saying "sportsball", because holy poo poo your priorities are hosed
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Jan 24, 2018 01:01
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mastershakeman posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e89IWTGdIuQ That's just brash loving arrogance to look at this situation and not even be worried about the financial consequences for the school even if you don't give one poo poo about any of the victims.
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Jan 24, 2018 01:23
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botany posted:are people actually kramering into a thread about the largest sports scandal in history to complain about somebody saying "sportsball", because holy poo poo your priorities are hosed the patriarchy, not even once
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Jan 24, 2018 01:34
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https://mobile.twitter.com/freep/status/955903878226116610 burn it to the ground imo
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Jan 24, 2018 01:51
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Nothing to see here just an "inadvertent comment" https://twitter.com/reporterdavidj/status/955970424734707712
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Jan 24, 2018 02:23
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I am so loving disgusted with my alma mater right now. We already had a whole bunch of student-athlete rape and sexual assault allegations in just the past couple years that got glossed over, not to mention since I was attending there, and now the board is laughing poo poo off. There needs to be a cleansing from the top down, from rear end in a top hat Board members (I have no idea how this happens) to Simon through the entire athletic department, and if it includes Hollis, gently caress it, bye. Don't punish the students but rip every single person who heard about this and did nothing out of power.
GobiasIndustries fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Jan 24, 2018 |
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Jan 24, 2018 02:47
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GobiasIndustries posted:from rear end in a top hat Board members (I have no idea how this happens)
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Jan 24, 2018 03:06
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Don't forget, Michigan State also has a ton of recent football players getting arrested and charged for horrible things.
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Jan 24, 2018 03:08
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AsInHowe posted:Don't forget, Michigan State also has a ton of recent football players getting arrested and charged for horrible things. Hey guess what? I mentioned this and I'm not super happy about it either it turns out!!
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Jan 24, 2018 03:30
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Henchman of Santa posted:He went D-league, high school, NAIA and now high school again That monster is coaching high school kids? gently caress man
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Jan 24, 2018 03:44
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Some good news. https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/sports/michigan-state-ncaa-investigation.html
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Jan 24, 2018 03:45
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purkey posted:That monster is coaching high school kids? gently caress man Yep, and it’s always at Christian schools.
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Jan 24, 2018 03:51
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this is not a thread for being goony about sports in the abstract, it's about a corrupt as hell system in the real world that has destroyed real lives and needs fixing one way or another. posting "sportsball" in here is a punishable offense.
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Jan 24, 2018 03:54
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Mahoning posted:Penn State whistleblower Mike McQueary is currently divorced, unemployed, and living with his parents. check this out guys!! OHIO STATE DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR GREG SCHIANO BLAMES HIMSELF, POOR COACHING FOR PENN STATE SCANDAL "(Freeh) did a very nice job," Schiano said Tuesday. "We didn’t do a great job coaching. We didn’t get our guys to understand what was happening. They did a very good job." "We had our opportunities to get him off the field, we didn’t do it," Schiano said. "When you don’t get off the field on third down, often times you live to see a lot of plays that you never needed to see, for a lot of different reasons. But we need to get all of it fixed, and it falls on me and our coaching staff to get that done. We have great whistleblowers. We’ve got to get them in a position to go blow whistles, and we’ve got to get it right fast." "Entrenched predators are as multiple as any team we’ve played this year," Schiano said. "We really have to be on point. They do everything from gun-run game to what we saw the other year: multiple tight ends and heavy people, unbalanced sets all the way to what we do – gun-run, spread. And everything in between, if that makes sense. So this is a final exam for sure. We got our work cut out for us."
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Jan 24, 2018 04:14
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AsInHowe posted:Some good news. This is good yes but the Penn State investigation was toothless and that was for football. There has to be serious legal action and top-level changes.
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Jan 24, 2018 04:23
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GobiasIndustries posted:This is good yes but the Penn State investigation was toothless and that was for football. There has to be serious legal action and top-level changes. You could argue that they’ll come down harder on a less popular sport (sort of like how they’ve given the death penalty to D3 tennis programs but will never do it to a major football program again) but trusting the NCAA to handle things properly is not wise.
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Jan 24, 2018 04:29
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If the NCAA followed its own procedures and bylaws, they maybe could have made the PSU stuff stick and enact some real change. Instead the NCAA came down on PSU with a vague unilateral Strong Man routine in an attempt to look like they were doing something. Turns out they had no authority to do that, walked everything back, and poisoned the well for a long while
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Jan 24, 2018 04:34
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Henchman of Santa posted:You could argue that they’ll come down harder on a less popular sport (sort of like how they’ve given the death penalty to D3 tennis programs but will never do it to a major football program again) but trusting the NCAA to handle things properly is not wise. True. I feel like the most responsible thing to do would be to let all the gymnasts transfer immediately if they want, wipe out anyone who was associated with Nassar, get a new staff and go from there. But again, if the top isn't handled what does it even matter and how do you tell recruits "yes you won't get sexually assaulted" until a full overhaul takes place? Like sure Kathy is gone but what guarantees do you have that the people in charge of the new coach will do a loving thing to help you if she even reports anything? And really not even just the gymnastics team....it's so pervasive 
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Jan 24, 2018 07:54
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Faculty also want Simon gone: http://on.lsj.com/2F8YbcT
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Jan 24, 2018 15:38
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GobiasIndustries posted:This is good yes but the Penn State investigation was toothless and that was for football. There has to be serious legal action and top-level changes. But wouldn't serious legal action come from the Michigan Attorney General, not the NCAA? The problem the NCAA always runs into with this is that they're there to regulate the sport, not all the poo poo that happens around it.
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Jan 24, 2018 16:57
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Bird in a Blender posted:But wouldn't serious legal action come from the Michigan Attorney General, not the NCAA? The problem the NCAA always runs into with this is that they're there to regulate the sport, not all the poo poo that happens around it. Nassar was still an employee unlike Sandusky who had retired and hadn't been actively involved in the football program for a decade when all this poo poo came out. So they probably can nail the coach and program for what they were doing. The NCAA couldn't really do anything to Paterno after the indictment came out in November 2011 because he got cancer within about 2 weeks of the indictment and died in January 2012. Everyone else but the dead guy did get sentenced to prison (though probably not for nearly long enough)
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Jan 24, 2018 17:06
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It wouldn't destroy sports, but it would destroy a lot of colleges. only 20 d1 schools generate a profit off their athletics programs
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Jan 24, 2018 17:19
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As a whole, yes, it's likely that's the case, once you factor in every single sport at a school (beyond football and men's basketball, most every other sport does not do as well in terms of attendance and donors). Football brings in a metric fuckton of money, and, in a vacuum, it's all but certain to be profitable for the school. e: also what SKULL.GIF said.
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Jan 24, 2018 17:22
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Just because they don't generate an overall profit doesn't mean that it isn't enormously enriching everyone* involved. *: Not the athletes, most of the time.
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Jan 24, 2018 17:22
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iospace posted:Football brings in a metric fuckton of money, and, in a vacuum, it's all but certain to be profitable for the school. there's a $45,000 difference in median loss between d1 schools with and without a football program http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017RES_D1-RevExp_Entire_2017_Final_20180123.pdf  
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Jan 24, 2018 17:35
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I read (ok, skimmed) that article and I am *extraordinarily* skeptical of it. Chase the Google results a bit deeper and there are several articles pointing out that universities get a lot of peripheral revenue from athletics that isn't on the actual books of the program itself. It drives alimni donations, etc. I mean, I agree that for a lot of schools the athletics program is a vampire squid draining every other aspect of the schools' finances, but that happens because school alumni, administration, faculty, staff, and students all view athletics as the raison d'etre for the school as a whole and allocate the athletic programs primary importance.
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Jan 24, 2018 17:37
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Think of it this way: if you ask someone on the street what comes to mind when they hear "Duke University," would they be more likely to say the basketball program or its highly regarded academics?
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Jan 24, 2018 17:53
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