The Most Horrific Sexual Abuse in Sports History is Coming to Light

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stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

thanks for the post, op

WampaLord posted:

Holy poo poo.

This seems like a bit of an extreme overreaction. Is there no possibility we could keep the college sports and lose the sexual abuse?

i�m reminded of this part of aly raisman�s statement a few days ago:

quote:

Larry, you should have been locked up a long, long time ago. The fact is, we have no idea how many people you victimized, or what was done, or not done, that allowed you to keep doing it, and to get away with it for so long.

Over those 30 years when survivors came forward, adult after adult, many in positions of authority, protected you, telling each survivor it was O.K., that you weren�t abusing them. In fact, many adults had you convince the survivors that they were being dramatic or had been mistaken. This is like being violated all over again.

How do you sleep at night? You were decorated by U.S.A. Gymnastics and the United States Olympic Committee, both of which put you on advisory boards and committees to come up with policies that would protect athletes from this kind of abuse. You are the person they had �take the lead of athlete care.� You are the person they say �provided the foundation for our medical system.�

I cringe to think that your influence remains in the policies that are supposed to keep athletes safe, that these organizations have for years claimed �state of the art.�

To believe in the future of gymnastics is to believe in change, but how are we to believe in change when these organizations aren�t even willing to acknowledge the problem?

It�s easy to put out statements talking about how athlete care is the highest priority, but they�ve been saying that for years, and all the while this nightmare was happening.

False assurances from organizations are dangerous, especially when people want so badly to believe them. They make it easier to look away from the problem and enable bad things to continue to happen. And even now, after all that has happened, U.S.A. Gymnastics has the nerve to say the very same things it has said all along.

Can�t you see how disrespectful that is? Can�t you see how much that hurts?

A few days ago, U.S.A. Gymnastics put out a statement attributed to its president and C.E.O., Kerry Perry, saying she came to listen to the courageous women and said, �Their powerful voices leave an indelible imprint on me and will impact my decisions as president and C.E.O. every day.�

This sounds great, Ms. Perry, but at this point talk is cheap. You left midway through the day and no one has heard from you or the board.

Kerry, I have never met you, and I know you weren�t around for most of this. But you accepted the position of president and C.E.O. of U.S.A. Gymnastics, and I assume by now you are very well aware of the weighty responsibility you�ve taken on.

Unfortunately, you�ve taken on an organization that I feel is rotting from the inside, and while this may not be what you thought you were getting into, you will be judged by how you deal with it.

A word of advice: continuing to issue empty statements of empty promises, thinking that will pacify us, will no longer work.

Yesterday, U.S.A. Gymnastics announced that it was terminating its lease at the ranch where so many of us were abused. I�m glad that it is no longer a national team training site, but U.S.A. Gymnastics neglected to mention that they had athletes training there the day they released the statement.

U.S.A. Gymnastics, where is the honesty? Where is the transparency? Why must the manipulation continue?

Neither U.S.A. Gymnastics nor the U.S.O.C. have reached out to to express sympathy or even offer support � not even to ask, �How did this happen? What do you think we can do to help?�

Why have I and the others here probably not heard anything from the leadership of the U.S.O.C.? Why has the U.S. Olympic Committee been silent? Why isn�t the U.S.O.C. here right now?

Larry was the Olympic doctor and he molested me at the 2012 London Olympic Games. They say now they applaud those who have spoken out, but it�s easy to say that now. When the brave women started speaking out back then, more than a year after the U.S.O.C. says they knew about Nassar, they were dismissed.

At the 2016 Olympic Games, the president of the U.S.O.C. said that the U.S.O.C. would not conduct an investigation. It even defended U.S.A. Gymnastics as one of the leaders in developing policies to protect athletes.

That�s the response a courageous woman gets when she speaks out? And when others joined those athletes and began speaking out with more stories of abuse, were they acknowledged? No. It is like being abused all over again.

I have represented the United States of America in two Olympics and have done so successfully. And both U.S.A. Gymnastics and the United States Olympic Committee have been very quick to capitalize on and celebrate my success. But did they reach out when I came forward? No.

So at this point, talk is worthless to me. We�re dealing with real lives and the future of our sport. We need to believe this won�t happen again.

when institutions go bad wl, what do you think the recourse should be

# ¿ Jan 23, 2018 04:21

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 00:41

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

WampaLord posted:

I honestly don't know, but I do know that a large chunk of college students and faculty have a deep investment in their various sports and saying the only solution is to cancel all of them, again, seems extreme.

Sometimes extreme solutions are needed, though. Thank you for posting that quote.

being deeply invested in something doesn�t necessarily make it good, and sometimes extreme action is necessary especially when we see such a. bad actors and b. systematic institutional inertia wrt victims to downright malicious action against them

it�s a real good quote

# ¿ Jan 23, 2018 04:30

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

are we pretending now that schools are super great with title ix enforcement because uh

that�s darkly hilarious

# ¿ Jan 23, 2018 23:06

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Mahoning posted:

No, nobody said that. That�s not even the point.

The failure of Title IX to be properly enforced should not lead us to eliminating those protections completely for thousands of young athletes by removing sports from colleges and universities.

what about the collegiate athletic system leads you to believe the protections are being more strictly enforced than the victimization

# ¿ Jan 23, 2018 23:26

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

botany posted:

are people actually kramering into a thread about the largest sports scandal in history to complain about somebody saying "sportsball", because holy poo poo your priorities are hosed

the patriarchy, not even once

# ¿ Jan 24, 2018 01:34

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

https://mobile.twitter.com/freep/status/955903878226116610

burn it to the ground imo

# ¿ Jan 24, 2018 01:51

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

revenue is cool but it�s built on a foundation of rape and sexual predation so

i d g a f

burn it the gently caress down

# ¿ Jan 24, 2018 22:34

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

seiferguy posted:

If there's one thing that 2017 has shown, it's that (white) women will absolutely participate in being complicit in the cover-up of horrific crimes if it benefits them personally.

a cool and good comment to make to these white women

Marie Anderson, swimmer posted:

My parents, who had my best interest at heart, will forever have to live with the fact that they continually brought their daughter to a sexual predator, and were in the room as he assaulted me.

McKayla Maroney, gymnast and two-time Olympic medalist posted:

I had a dream to go to the Olympics, and the things that I had to endure to get there were unnecessary and disgusting.

Amanda Thomashow, Michigan State student posted:

I reported it. Michigan State University, the school I loved and trusted, had the audacity to tell me that I did not understand the difference between sexual assault and a medical procedure.

like i get the complicity of white women but you do realize that since some victims were white women, some of them were (white) women, right?

e: awkward phrasing

stone cold fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Jan 25, 2018

# ¿ Jan 25, 2018 02:35

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

C. Everett Koop posted:

No, the post was whining about the sentencing. Nasser getting hundreds of years instead of just "life" is the entire point of his sentence, to make it explicitly clear the amount of damage he had systemically done to these women. To just say "yeah, you assaulted a lot of women but you've probably only got about 20-30 years left so that's all you get" is to miss the point. As for whining about psychological damage of isolation, it pales in comparison to the psychological damage that Nasser committed.

What I always find interesting is that whenever a white male commits a particularly heinous crime, such as Nasser here or Anders Brevik or Dylan Roof or the rest, a certain crowd always comes out and complains about the sentence they receive being "cruel and inhumane." Because, of course, the most important thing to do in the face inhumane acts is to make sure that certain feelings aren't hurt.

you called obama �king hussein,� and �blackface reagan�

# ¿ Jan 25, 2018 03:07

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

GobiasIndustries posted:

Simon is out at MSU
https://twitter.com/GaryMiles_DN/status/956348976328052736

good

now burn her, and the administration at MSU down

burn it all down

# ¿ Jan 25, 2018 03:21

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

https://mobile.twitter.com/TODAYshow/status/956503394394542081

burn down the entire institution, comrades

# ¿ Jan 25, 2018 16:08

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

gaj70 posted:

IDK. The thing is nobody 'forces' athletes do anything. In the end, it's the competitive drive of the people doing it and the essential zero-sum nature of the endeavor; it's old Mike Tyson line about why he was out running at 4:30 am: "Because I know that while I train, my opponent is still sleeping.� Trainers/coaches, at best, help draw out that last ounce of will-power. You can always say not today... you just don't want to do so. And for that reason, I've literally ran until I threw up.

But, FWIW, there are always medical professionals around at higher levels. And I 'think' they are mandatory reporters re abuse.

unless of course they themselves are proud members of the medical profession who are doing the abuse

which is depressingly commonplace

# ¿ Jan 25, 2018 16:35

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

gaj70 posted:

No idea. What does the science say?

FWIW, I think parent should push their kids a bit. As a rough analogy, every teacher I recall as being "great" challenged me.

a cool post to make in the the most horrific sexual abuse in sports history thread

# ¿ Jan 25, 2018 17:01

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

jabby posted:

A slightly unusual therapy exists called internal myofascial release that involves the patient using their fingers or a special probe inside the vagina or rectum to apply pressure to the pelvic floor muscles. It's been at least somewhat scientifically investigated as a treatment for chronic pelvic pain, and if you Google it (maybe not at work) you can find stuff of varying legitimacy talking about the pros and cons, how to perform it etc.

Obviously it has nothing to do with what he was doing, but it's almost certainly involved in his cover story and shows how effective even a flimsy excuse can be at preventing people reporting abuse.

well also combine that with the fact that a. people aren�t inclined to listen to women anyways and b. people certainly aren�t inclined to listen to women over a male doctor

# ¿ Jan 25, 2018 17:20

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Mahoning posted:

I mean Jesus, could we start with No adult should be alone with a child at any point, yes even doctors.

And in the case of doctors, there should always be two. Always at least one female.

And I know that's not gonna solve every problem ever but again, it should be rule #1.

he abused some of the children with their parents in the room

like i get your second point but

he abused some of the children with their parents in the room

# ¿ Jan 25, 2018 17:43

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Mahoning posted:

Yes, thank you, I know. It's why I made my second point. It's also why I made my third point. Larry Nassar perfected his abuse because he was allowed unfettered access to young female gymnasts for years. I highly doubt he would have ever gotten the confidence to do this with a parent in the room if he hadn't had those years of perfecting his abuse.

And again, let me reiterate my third point again:

I know that's not gonna solve every problem ever but again, it should be rule #1.

And beyond that, it should be enforced HEAVILY.

i mean the fix beyond that is rooting out predators and burning down the patriarchy

beyond the sexual abuse in medicine, women receive substandard medical care because of the gender bias, so we need some deep institutional reform beyond �let�s make two doctors do all the rounds and one of them has to be a woman�

e: a big part of the problem is that from the time we are small girls, we are told by society and by doctors that our discomfort is in our head

that�s a big thing for a sexual predator to be able to take advantage of

# ¿ Jan 25, 2018 17:54

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

gaj70 posted:

Excellent points. As I argued up-thread, the best solution to this kind of thing is to frog-walk a few senior folks (vs. ending college/olympic sports, as some here seem to advocate). AFAIK, the best chance of a high-profile arrest under current law is to find proof someone knew about the abuse and then actively tried to prevent that info from getting out. Barring that, I'm not sure if rule-of-law allows much... "failure to adequately monitor" is more of a civil standard outside of a few special cases (e.g., legal guardian for an incompetent). "Failure to call the police" is normally iffy for even civil liability, much less criminal liability.

counterpoint: burn down the institution

# ¿ Jan 25, 2018 18:11

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Mahoning posted:

Well patient discomfort is a symptom of the larger issue here, isn't it? Teen girls' discomfort with their own bodies and the inability to talk about sexual matters is one of the very things Larry Nassar preyed on. Some of the girls who gave impact statement flatly stated that they were too embarrassed to talk to their parents about it and Nassar knew that.

yes, that�s a thing i literally said to you

which is why we must start burning down the patriarchy yesterday

to reiterate, there�s also the issue of society and doctors telling us from the time we are small girls that our discomfort is entirely in our heads and it is more important for us not to bother people than is is to relieve our discomfort

# ¿ Jan 25, 2018 18:40

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

https://mobile.twitter.com/lynseymukomel/status/956953153089490944

the usoc ultimatum is good but they should all probably resign too tbh

# ¿ Jan 26, 2018 23:29

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

tetrapyloctomy posted:

I wish there were some administrator who overheard a damning conversation between Simon and DeVos and who had access to some confirmatory e-mails. I'd love for both of these people to burn.

i mean...

quote:

Amid all those horrible details and all the broader malpractice, one strangeness stands out. It�s a meeting that former Michigan State president Lou Anna Simon had with Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos, and where that meeting fell relative to when DeVos� federal agency rolled back rules mandating that universities had to investigate (as well as try to prevent) sexual assault and gender violence.

-Sept. 20, 2017: Lou Anna Simon meets with Betsy DeVos. You can even see a picture here of them chatting.
-Sept. 22, 2017: Obama-era Title IX guidance is withdrawn
-Oct. 10, 2017: Michigan State asks to have federal monitoring ended

Now, it�s worth pointing out that those rollbacks didn�t stop the federal government from looking into just what the hell was going on at Michigan State. It also didn�t stop the government from rejecting that Oct. 10 request. While we�re doing caveats, it makes sense that DeVos would be talking to college presidents, including Simon, right before making a big decision on Title IX.

But it is worth remembering, as Simon continues to express shock at her institution�s repeated failure to stop convicted serial abuser Larry Nassar, that she had no problem openly aligning herself with a woman who has some pretty crazy ideas about education, and always said she would gut Title IX. It�s notable, but it might not be surprising. Simon, after all, let the DeVos family donate more than $10 million for a university research building at Michigan State. You are, as the saying goes, the company you keep.

who knows, right?

# ¿ Jan 27, 2018 04:18

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

mastershakeman posted:

https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/957056460327964673

This is systemic and the NCAA is unable and unwilling to do anything at all.

i would like to highlight this for every single goddamn idiot who came in here and whined about demolishing college sports

burn it all down friends

# ¿ Jan 27, 2018 04:20

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

GobiasIndustries posted:

(NOTE I AM NOT DEFENDING MSU AT ALL RIGHT NOW)
Again, this is not unique to college sports as a very large number of the girls assaulted were through US Gymnastics. The NCAA is a huge problem, yes, but so is literally every other large organization focused on profits before people.

note: i did not say it was the only institution that needed to be burned down

Mahoning posted:

I think you�d find that college sports fans would probably be first in line to burn down NCAA headquarters.

And I�m not even talking big time football and basketball fans, as the NCAA regularly fucks over the smaller sports and athletes in the smaller sports.

some of them

some of them are dirtbags so it�s a real mixed bag

# ¿ Jan 27, 2018 05:25

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Mahoning posted:

I find this line of thinking useless. Not because I give a poo poo whether MSU Athletics is wiped off the face of the earth or not, but because it takes our focus away from the people that did this and puts the onus on the institution.

There are a very specific group of people that are responsible for everything that has gone on. They need to be investigated and charged and brought to justice. There needs to be no mercy.

But the Michigan State Athletic Department didn�t do anything. The people who make it up did. They deserve the blame. They deserve the consequences.

counterpoint: the institution is bad

e: joke take: MSU alum spotted

# ¿ Jan 27, 2018 23:02

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

burn the institutions down

it reminds me of the catholic church

the church knew probably sometimes between the late 40s and 60s, the public knew around 1985, but goddamn nothing happened until 2002

burn down: the patriarchy

and

institutions that a. protect b. shelter and c. encourage sexual predation

# ¿ Feb 9, 2018 04:18

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Quabzor posted:

This is from a few year back, at a D3 school.

There were (probably are more) 55 colleges under federal review.

"Fader�s complaint comes as UW-Whitewater is facing with a�federal probe�into its handling of sexual assault cases. The university was�one of only 55�colleges nationwide under investigation by the federal government in 2014 for failing to properly investigate campus sexual assault allegations. Fader believed the university was attempting to make an example out of him over a technical violation, court papers reveal."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/college-coach-i-was-fired-for-reporting-campus-rape-to-police

I don't know the daily beast, but this is more or less the story I've hear from recent alumni and current students.

The problem is that it's literally all of them. Not even just universities. Every business, government, and non-profit has a reason to protect its execs. If the management looks bad the rest of the "establishment" looks bad. Patriarchy goes hand in hand with capitalism. gently caress capitalism. The problem isn't only sexual assault(I'll agree that it is a main problem),it's every cover up from drug use to money laundring.

capitalism is an issue but it�s not the issue

the issue fundamentally stems from power imbalances, so while capitalism fundamentally is inclined to have patriarchy, they are not one and the same. be careful with conflating the issue. patriarchy is bigger than capitalism, because issues of power imbalances aren�t 100% a capitalist issue.

or, in other words,

smash the patriarchy and institutions

# ¿ Feb 10, 2018 11:14

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Mozi posted:

Yes, just like all those times in human history beforehand, where everybody got along great and nobody took advantage of each other.

it�s almost like power imbalances are the issue when it comes to predation

# ¿ Feb 10, 2018 18:50

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

i find it disturbing when a judge says but for the constitution restraining them, they would have a defendant raped

prison rape is not justice

# ¿ Feb 11, 2018 02:24

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

OwlFancier posted:

I remain absolutely unable to care what happens to the fucker as long as it involves him not being around anybody else for the rest of his life, however long or short that might be.

I think my capacity for empathy ends at maybe the five instances of child molestation mark. Maybe sooner!

i don�t say this out of empathy for him, thanks

justice is not prison rape

# ¿ Feb 11, 2018 03:08

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

OwlFancier posted:

What on earth is justice in this case? What possible justice can anyone offer? He's an unrepentant piece of poo poo who has committed grievous crimes on a mass scale, and the only thing anyone can do is to get rid of him in the most expedient fashion possible and set the absolute most severe example for anyone else like him. Lock him up and throw away the key, shoot him, hang him draw him and quarter him I don't give a poo poo, it makes gently caress all difference, none of it will be justice.

hm, nope, torture and the death penalty are bad, and �serving as an example� has been disproven empirically

justice is locking this guy away for the rest of his life

justice is not: rape, torture, death

you don�t fight rape with rape

# ¿ Feb 11, 2018 03:31

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

can�t believe I have to say �prison rape is bad� in the sexual abuse thread

# ¿ Feb 11, 2018 03:31

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

ChairMaster posted:

Which is why we should not allow it to happen in the prison system. Doesn't mean that it would be a bad thing to happen, just that it's not the way to run a society.

hm, no

rape is also a bad thing to happen

cool to have to explain this in the sexual abuse thread

# ¿ Feb 11, 2018 21:44

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

ChairMaster posted:

Nah, the welfare of that guy is a pretty neutral position, morally. It doesn't really matter that much what happens to him as long as he is no longer free to hurt other people. His treatment after conviction is a matter of doing the smartest thing for the good of society, not of pretending like it matters if he dies or not.

nah, all rape is bad

# ¿ Feb 11, 2018 21:49

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

OwlFancier posted:

I think the point we disagree on is that "basic humanity" includes people who do what he did. Cos I'm not sure someone who does that has any.

it�s also p. not cool to rape animals

e:

PT6A posted:

You're 100% correct, but sadly I don't think you're going to win any converts on this through reason, because statements like "rape is unequivocally bad" and "torture is unequivocally bad" and "slavery is unequivocally bad" are, to an extent, axiomatic. You either accept that those are fundamental violations of the rights of any human being, by virtue of their basic humanity and completely unchanged by any of their possible actions, or you do not.

yeah, i mean i�m not here to reason with somebody who thinks rape is good in some cases, i�m here to tell them they�re an idiot

it�s unfortunate

# ¿ Feb 12, 2018 02:50

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

SpeakSlow posted:

Not even a little rape for a rapist who predated on children, unabashedly and for decades? Ok, fine.

Huh. So are we prosecuting the people who abetted this fucker yet? Or are we just settling with fines and wrist-slaps for that?

rape is bad, and rape jokes aren�t cool

# ¿ Feb 12, 2018 22:34

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

as it turns out, we should in fact burn down the institutions

# ¿ Mar 30, 2018 02:15

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

PT6A posted:

Yeah I was certain it was necessary like five disgusting revelations ago, now I�m doubleplussure.

In fact, just torch the entire loving NCAA while we�re at it. Poison trees bear only poisoned fruit.

yes, the ncaa is an institution

# ¿ Mar 30, 2018 03:40

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

how many more people have to be raped before the Very Serious People in the thread will admit that slow methodical reform of bad institutions isn�t preferable to burning them down and starting over

# ¿ Apr 20, 2018 02:22

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 00:41

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

suck my woke dick posted:

It is probably accurate though. If you give people a week during which they have legal immunity for anything they do you�ll most likely end up with a worrying proportion going out to do rapes and murders.

# ¿ Apr 21, 2018 19:20

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Most Horrific Sexual Abuse in Sports History is Coming to Light