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The ideal number of people to clear a medium sized house is six, four for the JTAC and his protection team and two for the aircraft. It takes a little longer to set up then Mr. Operator's storm but it takes under half a second to clear the entire building and there's very minimal risk to the friendly forces.
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Jan 26, 2018 21:10
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The amount of paperwork going into a game where you burn three reloads worth of ammo in Phoenix Command must be staggering.
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Jan 26, 2018 21:32
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JcDent posted:The amount of paperwork going into a game where you burn three reloads worth of ammo in Phoenix Command must be staggering. Personally I've always raised my eyebrows a bit at the rules for calling in an artillery strike at Forward Observer 0, which takes the average soldier about 225 combat phases.
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Jan 26, 2018 22:08
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LatwPIAT posted:Personally I've always raised my eyebrows a bit at the rules for calling in an artillery strike at Forward Observer 0, which takes the average soldier about 225 combat phases. That's only 450 seconds which sounds about right realistically To anyone else: I remind you what happened when y'all charged into a building blind....heroics! Don't stop storming buildings!
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Jan 26, 2018 22:18
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Phi230 posted:To anyone else: I remind you what happened when y'all charged into a building blind....heroics! Don't stop storming buildings! I'm going to be honest, I don't really get the difference between the M67s and the M26s but google tells me the M67s are newer so I've given them to the assault team. They're also a tenth lighter so that's... good?
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Jan 26, 2018 22:30
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Phi230 posted:That's only 450 seconds which sounds about right realistically Oh, sure. It's just that it's also 225 turns of playing the game. FrangibleCover posted:I'm going to be honest, I don't really get the difference between the M67s and the M26s but google tells me the M67s are newer so I've given them to the assault team. They're also a tenth lighter so that's... good? The M67 has fewer, larger, and more damaging fragments and cause a bigger explosion than the M26. The stat-cards I cribbed from the manual because I ran out of spoons to make fancy new ones with also suggests that the M26 is impact-fused while the M67 has a two-second fuse, but that's probably a Phoenix Command-ism since the L2A2 and IDF M26A2 on the same page don't have impact fuses. Tell you what, I'll say you got enough fuses with the box to make the choice for the M26s; subtract 0.1 lbs. from an M26 to give it a 2-second fuse instead - but that decision has to be made before the battle starts. Mrrrrgh, I should try to make some proper grenade stat cards. And give you an overview of how the damage mechanics work...
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Jan 26, 2018 22:51
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 GETTING SHOT  Phoenix Command resolves ballistic trauma through hit locations. There's 64 in total; those visible on the figure above and an additional 20 for hits from the side. When a target is hit, a hit location is randomly determined from a combination of its facing, stance, accuracy, and where the shooter aims (anywhere, head, heart, abdomen, or legs). Then we find the hit location in the big book of hit location tables. It'll look something like this:  EPEN is the amount of penetration that remains after the bullet or grenade fragment has passed through cover and body armour. The amount of penetration a projectile has is given by it's PEN. If you look at the FN Minimi, it has a PEN of 16.6 at a range of 10. This means that at a range of up to 10 hexes (20 yards), unarmoured targets with no cover get hit for 16.6 EPEN. Both the hit location and weapon also have DC - the damage class. When a target is hit, you cross-reference the DC and EPEN to determine the damage. The DC from the Minimi at up to 10 hexes is 7, so our unlucky target is hit for 43H (43 hundred; 4300) damage to the hip socket. Shaded cells mean the wound is Disabling. The bottom row of text notes that this is a femur fracture. So what does 4300 damage mean? Well, we can look it up on this table:  We look up a Damage Total of 4300, rounding down to 4000. The Healing Time is 91 days; it's going to take 91 days to heal this wound. The No Aid column tells us what happens if the Tango gets no medical aid; they'll have to roll for death in 76 phases (156 seconds) (CTP - Critical Time Period), and the difficulty is given by the RR (Recovery Roll). Since the RR is blank, that means automatic failure. There's no way to survive a wound like this without medical aid. But if we can can get someone to give the Tango first aid, we can use the First Aid column instead. This automatically extends the Critical Time Period to 22 minutes. Unfortunately there's still no recovery chance, but the 20 extra minutes means we might be able to bring the Tango to an Aid Station, like Guzman: she can extend the Critical Time Period to 4 hours, and the RR to 0. This means to survive the Tango has to roll less than or equal to 0 on a roll of 0-99. Still pretty hard to survive, so we let Guzman hand the Tango over to a Field Hospital, who extends the Critical Time Period to 18 hours, and the RR to 2; a 3% chance of survival. The trauma surgeon at the Field Hospital is of course going to say "there's nothing I can do here!" and have the Tango sent to a proper hospital with a Trauma Centre, which at our Tech Level of 14 makes the RR 28, for a 29% chance of survival. Moral of the story? Don't get shot. e: some of you have pretty high HLT, and may wonder how this helps. Wounds are reduced in severity by a factor (10/HLT), so those of you with HLT 15 take only two thirds of the damage the average person takes. In the above example, 4300 would be reduced to 2867 damage, which has better Healing Time, Critical Time Periods, and Recovery Rolls. e2: Grenades have a value called BC (Blast Concussion). This is the amount of damage you take from the explosion itself. So if you're standing in the same hex as an exploding M67, you take 7790/HLT damage. LatwPIAT fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Jan 27, 2018 |
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Jan 26, 2018 23:28
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Don't get shot with an lmg at 20 yards seems like a generally good life goal.
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Jan 26, 2018 23:49
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LatwPIAT posted:NATO standard being "don't attack a 15-man strong position fortified in buildings and trenches with just one squad"?
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Jan 27, 2018 00:28
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I have a confession to make about Shakey Jake. He has a phobia of getting hit by bullets. Even so, he is too weak to hope to carry an MG or much ammo so I’m signing him up for
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Jan 27, 2018 01:44
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You need a squad marksman. Though you probably need a marksman rifle first. H&K will probably sell you something suitable.
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Jan 27, 2018 02:01
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Anderson is a big fan of Operation Run or Gun. Because it apparently gives him the most opportunities to kill anything that's not Catholic. No idea what that's about, but it's probably gonna be fine. Right?
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Jan 27, 2018 02:03
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Put the bullets in the baddies that's the Steamy Hams way
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Jan 27, 2018 02:19
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AmyL posted:What is the NATO standard? 3 to 1 odds? No I meant presentation
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Jan 27, 2018 02:46
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double post
orcbuster fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Jan 27, 2018 |
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Jan 27, 2018 03:31
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VolticSurge posted:Anderson is a big fan of Operation Run or Gun. Because it apparently gives him the most opportunities to kill anything that's not Catholic. No idea what that's about, but it's probably gonna be fine. Right? Given that Run or Gun is heavily based on British Army dismounted infantry tactics of the Cold War I'd say it's actually our best bet for killing lots of Catholics. Who were probably armed. Well, one of them.
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Jan 27, 2018 03:46
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Reason I've divided us into two rifle teams on Squealing eagle is that I don't want to give the enemy the opportunity to organize. By hitting both houses simultaneously we deny them the opportunity to mass their potentially superior numbers. Most likely we'll retain local numerical superiority at the compound as we clear it but to maintain that we need to clear them quickly. This is also why I've decided on our base of fire to the North of the compound instead of west so that it can engage the trench while the rifle squads clear the houses, so that they remain active as long as possible while keeping the trench busy. The angle from that position is also rather ideal for engaging the trench, deploying them to the west means the MG team will remain idle during the compound assault. I do not believe it necessary to take the northeastern house. I would rather that any remaining enemies spend themselves in a counterattack that we are prepared for while the engineers do their work. Also I REALLY don't want to assault across a river. I have doubts of our ability to take the first compound as it is. orcbuster fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Jan 27, 2018 |
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Jan 27, 2018 03:52
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I can't help but notice that the hit table diagram doesn't seem to include groin attacks. What bullshit is this? Edit: Squealing Eagle has nice symbols and is clearly the way to go. Jalak fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Jan 27, 2018 |
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Jan 27, 2018 07:01
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Still for Screaming Eagle. We have at best equal numbes to the enemy, andthey are in a semi fortified position as far as our presumptions go. Agreeing we don't want to bite off more than we can chew.
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Jan 27, 2018 07:08
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orcbuster posted:This is also why I've decided on our base of fire to the North of the compound instead of west so that it can engage the trench while the rifle squads clear the houses, so that they remain active as long as possible while keeping the trench busy. The angle from that position is also rather ideal for engaging the trench, deploying them to the west means the MG team will remain idle during the compound assault. Incidentally, point of discussion going forward, are we sure that barn is going to be heavily defended? Barns generally have crap arcs of fire by default and that one is poorly positioned to cover the threat axis the enemy expects, I suspect they'll only be using it for storage and accomodation. I might amend Run or Gun to have some of our assault force bypass it to get into the main building faster. Vis. The NE Farm, I don't particularly want to assault it either but I only expect one or two guys down there if anyone and I seriously doubt they're going to want to assault me, uphill, into fortified positions. Our orders state we need to clear the entire area sadly, not just the bit that seems militarily relevant. Perhaps the engineers are coming from the North East edge?
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Jan 27, 2018 09:28
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FrangibleCover posted:My major issue with this is that any position from which you can engage the trench and the farm is a position from which both can engage you. This is simply a matter of shifting positions a few meters so that you'll be in cover from the trench while you engage the farm and then move into position when you engage the trench, the terrain certainly allows for it. Point is we want the trench to be engaged by our MG as we assault the farm, I think I might actually revise the plan to have the MG stay put until after we've taken the trench. quote:Incidentally, point of discussion going forward, are we sure that barn is going to be heavily defended? Barns generally have crap arcs of fire by default and that one is poorly positioned to cover the threat axis the enemy expects With our limited intel that is pointless speculation that can't be determined unless we're actually inside it. It still needs to be cleared and that can't be worked around, bypassing it isn't an option. There is a reason why you don't micromanage plans and individual soldiers like this and instead make teams with general objectives. Microtactical execution is up to the soldiers as events unfold, I.E. Eukie. orcbuster fucked around with this message at 09:59 on Jan 27, 2018 |
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Jan 27, 2018 09:45
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FrangibleCover posted:
From all my X-COM experiences barns are doom. You engage them with autocannons loaded up with incendinaries and let the cowpens BURN. (But the maps are usually flat an barns have nasty fields of fire for snipers and of course the aliens wtih laspistols can hit you from halfway across the map and your Squaddie with the Rcket launcher probably can't hit the -ground- with a missile, much less the broadside of a barn).
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Jan 27, 2018 10:18
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If anyone has any questions about details of the game, equipment, etc., I'll be happy to field them.
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Jan 27, 2018 17:32
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How long does it take to punch a man to death? e - Assuming you are both of average stats and you are punching him in the face.
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Jan 27, 2018 18:06
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goatface posted:How long does it take to punch a man to death? Dunno, but I remember from Thunderdome that it takes not that long to stab someone in the neck with scissors.
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Jan 27, 2018 19:10
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goatface posted:How long does it take to punch a man to death? Depends on how fast you want him to die. If you want to give him a concussion/intercranial bleeding/whatever that he might die from, a single, hard punch to the face should do it. Maybe two if you want to make sure there's a chance he'll die even if he's sent to an ICU. If you want to make sure, it'll take a while.
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Jan 27, 2018 21:04
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LatwPIAT posted:Depends on how fast you want him to die. If you want to give him a concussion/intercranial bleeding/whatever that he might die from, a single, hard punch to the face should do it. Maybe two if you want to make sure there's a chance he'll die even if he's sent to an ICU. If you want to make sure, it'll take a while. I'm actually a little surprised. Given how easy it is to incapacitate an opponent, you'd think finishing them off would be ridiculously simple (well, not to calculate the math, but for the actual character). Like, once a guy is "Downed", can't you just aim a couple of strong strikes with the axe of the hand across the bridge of nose/eyes until you get to the gooey bits? A burly guy with military training should only need one or two solid strikes. Or are we considering specifically "Punching" and not "Chopping"?
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Jan 27, 2018 21:59
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Veryslightlymad posted:I'm actually a little surprised. Given how easy it is to incapacitate an opponent, you'd think finishing them off would be ridiculously simple (well, not to calculate the math, but for the actual character). Like, once a guy is "Downed", can't you just aim a couple of strong strikes with the axe of the hand across the bridge of nose/eyes until you get to the gooey bits? A burly guy with military training should only need one or two solid strikes. Oh, right, once they're disabled it's a lot easier to just punch them hard in the face until bad things start to happen. Being burly and trained also helps. But it still takes a few punches to put someone in a serious condition.
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Jan 27, 2018 23:37
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Are there rules for just dispatching them once they can't resist or must you punch the face to a mush?
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Jan 27, 2018 23:48
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Also, are there rules for critically missing someone with your fists that you punch yourself or suffer a wrist sprain?
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Jan 28, 2018 01:07
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Horrible Lurkbeast posted:Are there rules for just dispatching them once they can't resist or must you punch the face to a mush? No "coup de gras" rules or anything, but once they're down you can choose such diverse means of killing them as air choke, blood choke, strikes to the neck, heart, or face, or finding a rock and bashing their skull in. Which has a somewhat interesting effect, in that it's realistically hard to get someone out of a fight and know they'll stay out of it. It takes a lot of effort to kill someone with your bare hands, and someone you've beaten unconscious may wake up soon, come back for revenge, or die on the spot unless you're incredibly thorough. AmyL posted:Also, are there rules for critically missing someone with your fists that you punch yourself or suffer a wrist sprain? No. LatwPIAT fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Jan 28, 2018 |
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Jan 28, 2018 01:35
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LatwPIAT posted:No "coup de gras" rules or anything, but once they're down you can choose such diverse means of killing them as air choke, blood choke, strikes to the neck, heart, or face, or finding a rock and bashing their skull in. From what I understand about fist-fights, you're just as likely to brake your own hand then someone else's skull. Does the game account for the possibility of hurting yourself that way?
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Jan 28, 2018 03:04
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Its coup de grace. Coup de gras means 'strike of grease' which actually works fine for a goon squad, i guess.
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Jan 28, 2018 03:07
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A pot full of hot grease was going to be one of the weapons in Thunderdome had it run its course. Probably. Also, voting for Squealing Eagle
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Jan 28, 2018 03:53
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How nightmarish is it to set up a scenario like this in this system? And what sort of tools do you use for aid?
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Jan 28, 2018 06:42
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LatwPIAT posted:No "coup de gras" rules or anything, but once they're down you can choose such diverse means of killing them as air choke, blood choke, strikes to the neck, heart, or face, or finding a rock and bashing their skull in. I remember reading about a coroner analysing the remains of a man who it turns out had to shoot himself multiple times with a shotgun and a pistol before sweet death finally came. The poor guy should have gone with a more abstract RPG system.
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Jan 28, 2018 06:51
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Oh, no, damage inflicted by BULLETS in this game is very, very different than punching someone out. Although, real humans sometimes live through suicide by gun attempts, which has to be about the worst thing ever. Humans are really loving weird, man. It never ceases to amaze me how you can live through like, a repeated stabbing, but then die by cracking your head just wrong on the coffee table. Or live through falling out of an airplane, but not a slip in the shower. A few millimeters and sheer, dumbass luck is the difference between a horrible-yet-survivable situation, a trivial injury, or nigh-instant death.
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Jan 28, 2018 07:39
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Well only thing the human body needs to be considered alive is a functioning brainstem. When it comes to physical trauma your number one cause of death is bloodloss. Avoid major bleeding and keep your airways functioning and you can survive just about anything for quite a while.
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Jan 28, 2018 07:59
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Survive, yes. Enjoy, no. It does surprise me a bit that Phoenix Command has a mechanism for standing up and getting back in the fight after you've been knocked out like you're James Bond or something. More usual post-concussive activities by my understanding are groaning, squinting and vomiting. Having said that, I don't really expect it to come up with the number of firearms we're packing.
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Jan 28, 2018 08:22
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Be kind, spare a headshot for the poor guy.
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Jan 28, 2018 11:23
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