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harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Space reserved for a fresh Super GT write-up.

Can’t wait for Daytona 24 this weekend!

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harperdc
Jul 24, 2007


I just want to watch more slow-mo videos of superchargers/Top ends coming off of Top Fuel engines at extremely high velocity. The failure of engine block bolts is good poo poo.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

At least this time their GTE car is actually built to the rules and not an adapted GT3 car. They’ve sworn up and down the M8 is built more to this spec from the start, but who knows. I haven’t seen the M6 and M8 compared side by side, or the M8 alongside other cars. I’m just glad they’ve got factory programs in IMSA and WEC once more.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Schlesische posted:

There's a joke here I'm missing.

Not so much a joke as explained, it would just be awesome if all the GTE factories were committed to full-season campaigns in both IMSA and the WEC.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Schlesische posted:

If you're Aston Martin it probably doesn't make sense to burn even more money on races only die hards will ever watch.
I absolutely don't understand why Corvette doesn't do IMSA.

Corvette does IMSA, but only goes to the WEC for Le Mans as a Factory team. There was a privateer C7R in LM-GTE Am for a few years, but that team has now moved to P2.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

drgitlin posted:

If you meant “why doesn’t Corvette do WEC@ the answer is very simple. It can sell every Corvette it can build here in the US and doesn’t care about marketing it abroad enough to justify the cost of a WEC effort. Whereas it very much cares about an IMSA program because that does sell more Corvettes here.

Re: Mazda, I spent a long time chatting to their people this week. They are convinced the Cadillacs are going to dominate this weekend and will be happy if they finish first among the non-Cadillac DPis.

I believe somebody with Corvette has said “Le Mans is our global effort,” which, yes, fine, but still doesn’t mean I can’t wish they could join in. Would make the world championship even better.

Looking forward to seeing Mazda and Joest getting into it. And seeing your inevitable article on the race.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

IMSA TV down for anybody else?

[edit] the IMSA Official site isn't working for me (or showing any of the other in-car cameras) but the stream is working at Radio Le Mans' link: http://www.radiolemans.co/imsa-live-video-stream/

harperdc fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Jan 28, 2018

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

MazeOfTzeentch posted:

Ford GTLM just passed a prototype for position in the wet

Bourdais was setting fastest laps in the 66 Ford for a bit, lol. the Radio Le Mans call was really good, Johnny Mowlem (who is back retired this week) was hammering home that you'd rather be in a GT than the prototypes during the rain (more mechanical grip and less aero dependence, which goes away with lower speeds in the wet).

BMW M8 25 just chewed up the right-front rain tire, no caution though.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

njsykora posted:

It's not too surprising that a team caught tampering with their fuelling system would get the book thrown at them.

Racer's Hour 10 write-up had comment and details on this

quote:

The Land Audi was directed to pit lane by IMSA to serve a stop-plus five-minute penalty for, according to team owner Christian Land, exceeding the minimum refueling time expected for the German coupe. With the series applying Balance of Performance restrictions to more than just the cars – refueling rigs are also subject to BoP with the use of differing flow restrictors to equalize the time it takes to fill each model – Land told Radio Le Mans the reduced time his No.29 has been spending on pit lane was reported as the reason for the violation.

Emphasis mine. As Schlesische said, there's a Balance of Performance equalization for the GT Daytona class, and while that applies to power, weight, etc., it also applies to how long it takes the teams to refuel. The Land team boss insists they've done nothing wrong, but clearly they're faster than the rules state...

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

The DPi car hip-checking the Shank car then almost getting taken out by it was a scary little moment.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

iwentdoodie posted:

By long beach I see them being in contention. Those cars were good.

And in GTLM, the Ford's are indeed monsters. Corvette can run with them normally, as can Ferrari. Porsche can suck a gently caress and it made me so happy seeing Pilet and Tandy struggle, and BMW needs to quit loving around and either build a real car or drop. If you BoP everyone down to their level, it's like a super expensive GTD race.

that was the first race for the new BMW, give them some credit. and it's not the same case as the Acura LMPs, it's much harder -- DPi is the case where the only big "differences" from global P2 to the specific DPi were engine (which has been run before and well established) and some aero bits (to make it look like the brand but not really have a major impact). The chassis and such has already been sorted.

I'm most curious how the tire-related stuff will shake out. I wonder if these DPis are running more downforce this year; if anybody really is running bad camber/pressures; or if it's just a bad batch or really random bad luck. Sounds like it's a bad batch and certain teams (hi, Wayne Taylor) having worse luck.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

an oddly awful oud posted:

*whole lot of words*

See I still remember when cars weren’t expected to be “white hot” in their first loving race, that is a much more recent development. And especially in GTLM, with a new car? No chance. BoP might have helped the Fords, but it didn’t hurt the BMW.

The Mazdas were disappointing, yes. That I agree on. They’ve had extensive time to test and refine, and to be that far off — and unreliable — is a bad sign.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

The #8 Toyota won five races last season, and will be a squad of drivers who all have Formula 1 experience -- Kazuki Nakajima and Sebastien Buemi as teammates, and Ant Davidson still as reserve driver for when Alonso can't run.

...that #8 car is going to retire from Le Mans in the most heartbreaking way, isn't it :smith:

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Feels Villeneuve posted:

BoP is made to be broken

I'm surprised nobody has cut Michelin a bigger check followed Aston Martin down the route of having a tire supplier purely for their LM-GTE team, because with BoP on the cars, engines, weight, etc., but in a class with something of an allowed "tire war," there has to be some gains to be found from pushing the boundaries. Unless there's rules about supplying only one compound for the whole year. But still, there has to be some kind of loophole that allows for some real sticky rubber for Le Mans qualifying.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

drgitlin posted:

No, they wouldn’t. There’s a great feature in this month’s Racecar Engineering about Formula E aerodynamics. The cars are actually very low drag.

Compared with most other open wheel cars it’s easy to see that because the wheels are covered

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Cygni posted:

'hey guys can you take the incredibly cool allard j2x and instead make it look like a lovely try-hard happy meal toy that even kids dont like'



I was thinking Frisbee GR2 or 3 myself

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

I wished I'd remembered to put it on earlier, but there's some good GT3 stupidity happening.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

iospace posted:

Rip that transmission :rip:

It was also almost rip to the pit reporter too, wouldn’t have wanted to ask the questions in that situation

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Oh Christ, that’s not a good end to the motor race. Everybody safe? Any video of the incident? Missed the end of the race.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Hindy’s absolutely right, that’s a real bad noise :aaa:

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Basticle posted:

Yeah, I wouldn't have ever watched Fuji unless Alonso was there but if its the same time as PLM then I'm still not loving watching.

You wouldn’t be watching anyways, the usual schedule from past years has the Fuji 6 Hours starting after 11 pm Saturday night eastern time.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Dudley posted:

The Katherine Legge episode of dinner with racers was hilarious.

I'm vacillating between telling you to "keep going at full speed" and to relax and enjoy it at a leisurely pace, but if you're still in season 1, you've got some gems coming. Level 5 Special, Bill Riley, Tommy Kendall to name a few.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

drgitlin posted:

There’s no real incentive to come up with anything particularly clever engineering-wise compared to GTE.

Well, except for things like the Mercedes AMG-GT3s getting a qualifying ECU mode at the Spa 24hrs a couple years ago...leading to all of the pro Mercs getting penalties after qualifying. (GT3 is apparently strict about ECU software homologation, which makes perfect sense in many ways).

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

track day bro! posted:

So the GTE's need to be based off a roadcar, but the GT3's don't? But they usually are based of a roadcars bodyshell?

I remember when the Bentley GT3 first arrived everyone was going on about how it was pretty much a protoype in drag. But then people say the same thing about the Ford GT, which I guess the road version is flirting closely with being a racecar.

GTEs are more directly based on a homologation model - while there are some aero differences allowed, for example, you can't stick a different engine in, and Porsche really should have a 'mid-engined' 911 you can buy for the street. While those differences are more accepted for GT3 spec -- the Mercedes AMG GT3 has the engine also developed for the SLS GT3, and not a new engine developed from the street model -- the GTE is more supposed to be based off the street car.

This is why the Ford GT was such a big change -- similar to how the Porsche 911 GT1 was in 1996.

[edit] Short version: GTE has to be homologated from a street model, GT3 does not, but is based off it with some latitude for changes. GT3 is then tuned and balanced so that, in theory, every car can run approximately the same lap times, and from there all of that make's GT3 cars are homologated to that spec.

And when the Bentley debuted, they didn't think it was a prototype, but instead an ocean liner. It's a much bigger car than what's normally raced, but it works and makes the lap times, so :v:

Schlesische posted:

Worth noting: This was their first outing with a massive update for the Merc GT3 at Spa and they sandbagged like crazy to avoid getting BoP'd to oblivion.
(I think it was that Spa 24 and not the VLN 24 ?a year later?)

Yes but the six cars that made the "shootout" finale of qualifying got their times erased, went to the back of the "shootout" top 20, had five-minute stop-and-holds and it was because their engine timing didn't match homologation of the GT3 model. This wasn't an update thing, it was

Autosport.com posted:

The five-mintue stop-go penalties have been awarded for unsporting behaviour resulting from "presenting a car with a technical non-conformity of which the competitor should have been aware".

...

It follows a dramatic improvement from the official Spa test day earlier this month by Mercedes: Gotz's pole lap was 1.6 seconds up on the best time set by an AMG GT3 at the test.
.

kinda cheat-y.

harperdc fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Feb 21, 2018

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

tuo posted:

Note that BMW replaced the 6series/M6 with a completely different car (what used to be the 5series GT), and moved the "super expensive coupé based on a sedan" from the 5series (M6) to the 7series (M8). That's another reason why the M8 GTE is not a direct successor to the M6 GTLM/GT3. It has to do a lot with marketing...no sense in running the M6 (as a works team) any longer if there is no road equivalent for people to buy, thus the move to the M8 (which shares quite a lot of DNA with the M6 GT3).

of course it's good that another big brand came into the big brands racing real cars class, especially a big manufacturer with history and prestige. but the M6 and M8 are both much bigger cars than the competition (911, Vantage, Ferrari). Helps that the M8 was designed as a GTE first and not a GT3 that BMW wrestled IMSA into allowing in the series (which they'd done for going on five years beforehand with the M6 and Z4 before it), and that there will be a real M8 coming soon too. But those M6 GT3s will still be out there for a while, as due to the nature of the GT3 homologation there's less year-to-year turnover than in something like GTE.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Human Grand Prix posted:

I don’t understand American racing fans and their constant jabs at the FIA. Yes, it’s retarded and the F1 regs only benefitted Jaguar and nobody else (which was a dumbass move) but the US was the home of two of the most incompetent sanctioning bodies I’ve ever seen.

Because the 3.5 regulations were a move by one Bernard Charles to twist manufacturers towards Formula 1 in favor of sports car racing. This isn’t just the opinion of grumbly Americans, but many in sports cars across the Atlantic as well. Bernie absolutely flew it off a cliff.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Wirth1000 posted:

Please call me when any of these Lego sets actually resemble the thing they're supposed to represent, thanks.

They’re small scale and not super expensive, they do a good job of conveying the design in that size.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

MazeOfTzeentch posted:

Use a VPN into literally any other country other than the US and get the superior RS2 commentary. I still will load up the fox stream to help IMSA's ratings but that's as far as I go with that broadcast.

The RS2 commentary only (certainly through their web site) should be free for all. The IMSA TV streams pairing sound and vision are what’s restricted.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

iospace posted:

Worked for Aston Martin at Le Mans last year

They also had Dunlop making a bespoke tire for them on a factory deal. That probably helped a bit.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

The two Mazda’s topping night practice at Sebring tells me no other prototypes went out for night practice...right?!?!?

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

FYI that article is from 2015, but yeah, interesting details on the engineering.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

quote:

as the silly amounts of hybrid money have completely disappeared

...because one brand got taken out by a diesel scandal, and the other topped up its marketing value for the decade by winning Le Mans three times and then deciding to gently caress off?

I think the “silly money” part is important, but it’s mostly because no manufacturers wanted to spend the resources on a rules set that’s good for at most two more years before changing. And because Peugeot is thrifty as hell.

DPi isn’t a fair comparison because I bet it’s 1/10th the budget P1 is.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Dudley posted:

If DPi is going to mean BoP in the top class at LeMans, it can gently caress right off.

The bigger deal is I doubt the ACO wants to allow any manufacturers a route to P1 that doesn’t involve the World Championship. Petty, but that’s the likely case.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Couple of points:

-From memory, Equivalency of Technology was mostly to equalize diesel vs. gasoline when Audi was still around. and to produce the different power levels available as teams gained more from hybrid power from 2014-16. It was more once-per-year, as opposed to BoP, which happens much more frequently (depending on championship, IMSA is the most active if memory serves). (The crazy thing is they didn't have anybody come in and run everybody else off, which was partially the EoT and partially because the three teams took different approaches to answer the same question. I'm going to miss this hybrid era).

-Toyota was spending the least of the three manufacturers and it was over $150 mil/year, all told. Engineering and marketing/activation both I believe.

-Remember that this 'season' is going to last until June 2019, and the next rules set is probably only going to be introduced from the following season. And since they just opened up LMP1 for more privateers, I don't think they would force these guys to change cars too quickly. Whatever comes next is going to have to allow for some crossover, probably at least one year so that the new 2018 cars can be used until probably Le Mans 2021 (the end of the 2020-21 season).

-Toyota is already kinda worried that the privateer P1s are going to be running them close. A P2 came two failures away from winning outright last year, and these will probably be even faster...reliability is the big question.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Schlesische posted:

likewise I still believe one of Audi or Porsche would've survived if the Emissions Cheating Scandal hadn't occured.

It probably would've been Audi. Again, Porsche seems committed to GTs but only wants to win overall to top up their record and credentials every decade or so. And another rumor from 2015/16 was that VAG could approve both of them in racing, and approved both in WEC because they were using different engine types - diesel and gasoline. If they ran the same thing (which Audi would've done because the diesels were at a disadvantage for hybrid usage) then one had to go, and from everything I hear, it would not have been Audi.

quote:

As to the Toyota thing: they're precooking their excuses so they come out well done when Alonso's car stalls about 4 hours in and the other car gets totaled by a Ferrari GTE-Am car. It's doubtful they want to stay in Le Mans long term.

Toyota's budget comes from engineering and not marketing, so as long as it meets their engineering requirements they'll be around. If they wanted to leave, they would have after 2017.

[edit] also the Mazda is still running! And was leading! And this is with a quarter of the race remaining!

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

WindyMan posted:

Anyone who immediately thought the idea of two back-to-back 12 hour endurance races at Sebring was a dumb idea; is they themselves, dumb.

Yes, it's going to be a clusterfuck and a logistical nightmare. But it will be a glorious clusterfuck and a logistical nightmare.

I know we care and fret about some of these logistical things, but really, if they have this cuckoo-bananas idea, it’s their problem to pull it off. You just have to pack (more) booze and keep the party going.

Apparently there were going to be meetings Sunday about next year, so we’ll see what scuttlebutt escapes in the coming days.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

So on this week’s IndyCar podcast Marshall Pruett made mention that apparently Dario Franchitti was set to run with the Porsche P1 team before taking flight and drat near killing himself in Houston. I’ve never heard that link, but I really wonder what their driver lineup would’ve been - Dario and Bad Luck Mark anchoring one car or split? Who of their GT drivers doesn’t get the call up? Would Hartley be in F1 now without that accident? Interesting at least to think about.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Cygni posted:

In GTE, you never ever show your true pace until it’s too late for them to BoP you for lemans.

I'll be damned if this ain't the truth.

However, they've only been able to do private testing so far - no works Astons for IMSA and the 36 Hours of Florida, so no competition debut as of yet.

Hulebr00670065006e posted:

Any of you know if there is any limit to fuel and hybrid usage per lap during the prologue or if that is only during the races?

Apparently at least one team has been doing some work without restrictions! Will be interesting to see those practice and qualifying sessions at Spa...

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

orange juche posted:

The R18 was slower than the Porsche though. Audi's diesel fixation didn't make for a really good hybrid prototype. Once Porsche figured out the kinks, Audi didn't stand a chance.

It wasn't the 'fixation,' per se - one of the reasons VAG apparently allowed the two brands to compete was because one was diesel and the other petrol. If Porsche wasn't entered in LMP1, you would imagine in 2015 or '16 Audi would've switched back to a petrol engine -- especially with Dieselgate looming. But two VAG brands running the 'same' kind of engine? That wouldn't have worked, from what I recall.

You are right, apparently the diesel engine wasn't optimal at the higher MJ classes -- Audi lagged behind first Toyota and then Porsche in terms of increasing the hybrid power available, and part of that apparently was due to the diesel engine. But Audi couldn't change to a petrol engine, and Porsche were favored, and Audi had the diesel racing car during Dieselgate...means they had to go. Which is a shame, as it didn't sound like Audi wanted to leave, more that they were forced to close shop.

Let's hope Joest and Audi find their way together again for the next set of rules in a few years.

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harperdc
Jul 24, 2007


That's from this DailySportsCar article, and for reference, the fastest lap previously belongs to Hamilton in qualifying last year at 1:42.553. So Porsche is already 0.8 up on last year's World Champion Formula 1 car in qualifying party mode.

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