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I made the mistake of re-reading the Fallout 2 LP in the Archive (which is very good), and now I'm thinking about making another attempt to complete a play-through of Fallout 2 (even though I know everything that happens). I tried starting a game back around March (which I think I did after reading through the LP the first time), and I think I only made it as far as the giant mole rat you fight in the cave (which I couldn't beat). The problem I seem to have with the old Fallout games is that they feel super slow and stiff, and it seems like it's easy to make a character that's not skilled enough to do anything right. It took like five or six different attempts over the span of like six years before I finally started a Fallout 1 game I managed to finish. My questions are A.) How should I build my character, and B.) Should I use the unofficial patches? The second question I know sounds stupid, but I was thinking in terms of exploits versus quest-lines. I know there are some ways to cheese some vendors or whatnot to get free money and/or ammo, and stuff like taking Jinxed with maxed luck to negate the penalty. However, I was thinking about how some endings don't trigger because of certain issues (like the survival of the talking deathclaws). There's also the Restoration Project, and while exploring the cut areas sounds fun, I don't know how much actual content is included, and if it's really worth checking out. As far as building a character goes, I tend to go for passing speech checks and bypassing combat (and failing that, using Small Guns). Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Dec 20, 2018 |
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Dec 20, 2018 05:19
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Solarin posted:The game is stiff and clunky as hell. If you haven't seen this walk through I recommend checking it out. Apparently it went down recently and somebody rehosted it on Github: Oh yeah, the Nearly Ultimate Fallout Guides! I think I've read those guides and the Fallout Bible more than I've actually played the classic games. I might still have the PDF versions I made saved somewhere. Underpowered characters might be the issue I have, though it could just be that I'm bad at the game. I just tried making a character based on the build in the LP I linked, yet I ended up dying to scorpions in the Temple of Trials, probably because I didn't think to equip the spear.  I still had the old save game from March, where I made it to Klamath, and was I died trying to shoot geckos in the Toxic Cave. I don't know if it was because I didn't put enough points into Perception or what, but it seems like the early game is mostly you missing the majority of your attacks, and you have to sort of route your actions to do quests that will earn you experience to bump you up to something that will let you actually fight properly. There was another save I had from the Den, but from what I remember, I went to find Vic to give him the radio, but I had lost it somehow (I think because one of the kids outside the shops can steal it off you). I dunno. I might try to continue that save game, or restart again with one of the builds from the guide. Failing that, I might just give up and reinstall Fallout 4 with some mods (or, if I was smart, Fallout New Vegas with mods.)
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Dec 20, 2018 06:11
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Bholder posted:Problem with Fallout 2 is that the beginning is really rough, especially if you play as a charisma character since you cannot talk rats and scorpions to death. Temple of Trials was actually my first real exposure to the Fallout series outside of seeing the promo stuff for it at PAX 2008, and needless to say, it didn't leave a good impression. For reference, this is my character sheet for that old game from March: code:Question: How does skill percentage actually work? I know you can level it higher than 100%, but how does that actually calculate?
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Dec 20, 2018 06:33
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I re-read the Fallout 2 LP on the Archive again, and I'm thinking about giving Fallout 2 another try, but I wanted to ask whether I should use the unofficial patch and/or Restoration patch, or just play it as it is. I've got the GOG version, which I think has the widescreen fix set up already, but that's it. Reason I ask is because I know the unofficial patch fixes some exploits and alters some things, but I know without it, there are some bugs regarding finishing quests, getting certain endings, etc. I'll also ask what makes for a good build. I've always tried to lean toward passing dialog checks and using Small Guns for combat, but with F1 and F2, I find I have a harder time doing that. Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Mar 12, 2024 |
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Mar 12, 2024 22:45
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Entorwellian posted:I highly recommend using the restoration patch. It's kind of similar to the restoration content for the unofficial Vampire: Bloodlines patch: The quality of the new content is haphazard, but none of it feels like it was out of place or inappropriate (a couple of the new locations were pretty good, even.) I already started a playthrough without it, but if I'm feeling up to it, maybe I'll go through it again with the restoration patch. Speaking of the restoration patch, I decided to read through the Fallout Bible after not having looked at it in years, and something occurred to me: does the EPA sort of read like the first draft of The Sink from Old World Blues? I've read that one, too. TROGG CAN PUNCH BETTER! Rappaport posted:The quintessential F1/2 build is the smooth-talking smart sniper. This lets you access most content and gives you non-shooty options every now and then. F2 lets your companions pick up some slack when it comes to non-combat skills such as repair and healing (depending on what the companions are good at, they'll let you know), but this isn't incredibly well implemented and e.g. the science-skill-themed companion usually can't help you with the most meaningful science skill checks since those happen inside dialogue rather than 'using' a skill by clicking on an object in the game world. Which is to say you might want to invest in passive skills like speech and science if you are interested in seeing that kind of content, there are a few places in F2 which are not utterly ruined by thermo-nuclear warfare and where knowing some science might be helpful. That said, you can just shoot your way through pretty much all of the game if you want. I ended up copying the build from the LP (just at character creation), but both it and the recommended build from the Nearly Ultimate Fallout 2 guide make use of the Smooth Talking Sniper build. I think I was using the same build on a playthrough I started on my old computer. I had managed to get ahold of the Highwayman and was doing quests in New Reno. I think where I ran into a roadblock was trying to get into the Sierra Army Depot (there's supposed to be some trick to get past the turrets, but I couldn't figure out the path. For this current attempt, though, I've made it to Vault City and picked up Cassidy, so I've got him and Sulik backing me up (I didn't free Vic yet). Here's my current stats: code:I was going to save this for a later post (maybe once I finished the game), but I started jotting things down earlier, and I wanted to share while it's still fresh in my mind. The issue that I've had with the classic Fallout games (which might not be exclusive to it, but also a lot of other RPGs) is actually getting going in the game. To give an example, about a year or so ago, I finally played through Morrowind, and while it was a little rocky at first (I think it was the third time I tried starting the game), I got to a point where I was finally able to get over the early-game hump, and hit a stride where I was really having fun with the game. With Fallout 1, I started the game maybe a half-a-dozen times, but I've only ever finished it once. What I recall from that playthrough is that immediately prior to it, I scrapped a start where I had made it to Vault 15, only to realize I hadn't put enough points into Strength to wield the rifle that you find in the Vault. However, I think my problem isn't figuring out a build during character creation; there's recommended builds out that help with that. The issue is figuring out leveling. Since I've got a IN of 9, I get 18 skill points whenever I get a level. However, I don't really know how to distribute the points in a way that feels efficient. I put three or so into my Tag skills, but then I don't know how to distribute them with the rest of them. For example, I know I want to bump up Small Guns since that's my main combat skill, so that takes priority so I can dispatch enemies without fuss. Then I put points into Speech so I can either resolve quests peacefully, get better rewards, or save money. Doctor's good because I can use it to heal myself and my companions, and it's also a skill check that can be used to complete quests. However, there's points where I need use of other skills (locked doors, traps, repairing things, etc.) and that's when I'm not sure how much I should be spending, and where. I think the problem is how skills are scaled. In F3/FNV, the skills scale from 1-100, so I feel like it's a bit easier to try and balance everything. You still get the bonus in putting points in your tagged skills, but it feels like you still have good amount of points to put into other skills as needed. In F1/F2, though, the skills scale to 300%, so it doesn't feel as clear how much you need to keep pace, especially as you progress later into the game. Like, let's say you decide to put all my points from a level into a single skill. If you've got Small Guns at 45%, and it's tagged, then those 18 points are doubled, and you've got 81% after you're done. However, if your Science skill is 21%, and it isn't tagged, then it's just the flat 18 points, and it goes up to 39%. It's still a pretty decent boost, but you're probably not going to dump an entire level of skill points into untagged Barter. Plus, once you hit 100% in a skill, the cost to buy further points goes up to two, and then to three once you hit 200%. There's a section in the Nearly Ultimate Fallout 2 Guide (that I just found while writing this section) that says: quote:As a rule, it's not worth it to raise most skills above 101%. Combat skills can be improved beyond that for an extra edge until you reach the point where you get the maximum 95% chance to hit against all opponents and from any reasonable range (which takes a bit longer if you practice the art of aimed shots or blows). Maybe the game manual has some more details that I'm not aware of, but the fact they can be raise about 100% makes me assume that you need to keep boosting them to keep pace with the challenges the game throws at you (or I guess to minimize failing rolls and having to reload, depending on the situation). As said, Fallout 2 has a level cap of 99, so there's room to gain a lot of levels and raise the untagged skills (I know there's a perk that let's you tag a 4th skill). However, the challenge there is racking up the EXP to do that. Early on, I was able to do stuff like fix the well in Arroyo and help Torr guard the brahmin to get exp that way. However, when I tried fighting the plants infesting Hakunin's garden, I had to run back to him to heal so I could get through the fight (which, maybe you're supposed to do?). Then I tried taking on the geckos to the west to save the dog, but I found I couldn't survive fighting two geckos at once. I had to come back with once I had gotten the 10mm pistol and Sulik to make it through. I think it's an issue with a build not being heavily geared towards combat. If you don't have enough points in a combat skill to do decent damage or hit targets consistently, or you haven't gotten access to decent armor, then combat is either going to be a slog, or you're not going to survive past the first round for some encounters. That's where having companions come in; they pick up the slack when it comes to combat. (That said, even with companions, a shotgunner may still target you twice at the start of a fight and you end up dying (which happened when I got into an encounter on the way from Modoc back to The Den). Sulik's the first companion you encounter, but to recruit him, you have to pay off his debt, and it's here where I've got another issue. It feels like there's a sort of linearity to how you have to approach things. To be able to get through the rat caves or the geckos in Arroyo, you need Sulik backing you up, but to do that, you need to be able to pay his debt, which means scraping up the cash, which means doing one of the other quests in Klamath to get items you can sell for money to pay that debt. I'm not saying, 'Oh, the freedom to go wherever and do whatever in Fallout is a lie'; I know there's a way to build a character so you can head down south and get a suit of power armor from Navarro or somewhere to trivialize the early game, and I realize that with a different build, I could go through the rat caves and fight the geckos without Sulik's help. What I'm saying is almost feels like you have to meta-game to progress. To use New Vegas as an example, in the beginning, you're told you have to take the Long 15 to get to The Strip, because the direct path up north is too dangerous because of deathclaws and cazadores. You can take the direct path if you build the character right, find certain items, or use certain techniques. However, in taking the intended long route, you learn about the world, complete quests, gain companions, and acquire new gear. The difference between that and Fallout 1/2 is that with FNV, it doesn't feel like you're really gated at each area or settlement, where you have to complete quests to get enough EXP in order to survive in the next area. If you decide you don't want to deal with things in Primm, you can move on down south to the Mojave Outpost without fear of running up against a wall (at least from what I remember, it's been a while since I played FNV, so maybe there are some level requirements with the route). - There's more I want to talk about, but it's getting late, so to condense a really long, whiny, and stupid post down, a lot of the time I feel like I'm playing classic Fallout "wrong", where it feels like I'm almost fighting against the game, and I don't know if it's because of my approach, my attitude, or just flaws with the games. Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Mar 16, 2024 |
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Mar 16, 2024 05:55
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Rappaport posted:This is another flavour argument I suppose, but F2 isn't as much on rails IMO as it just presents most green blobs, I mean locales, as fairly individual areas to explore and utilize. Of course there are several multi-location quests and these dictate a lot of your ending slides (!), but let's look at some examples. Modoc is more or less its own thing, but frustratingly you have to interact with Karl in the Den in a specific way to get most of it going, and this hinges on the player doing the old-school "click on everything" approach to games. Klamath has a lot of poo poo to do, and eventually you will want to clear out the rat cave etc., but there is just enough money and sellable loot in town that you can just raise Sulik's bail money and get out of dodge if you want to. Of course the player doesn't know this beforehand, so this counts as meta-gaming or expecting the player to interact with every bookcase and box in town. The Den is mostly self-contained quests, Vault City and Gekko are a pair, etc. Redding is the hub for a lot of quests involving other green blobs, but that location not-so-subtly hints that you shouldn't tackle it very early on anyway even if you stumble into it by accident, and the game's early phase arguably ends with getting the car which makes the multi-location quests less of a pain in the rear end. I mentioned I got killed trying to go back to The Den from Modoc, and that was because I forgot to talk to Karl. I had just left The Den and started heading east to Vault City and found Modoc, and when I reported back from the Ghost Farm, Jo went, 'But what about Karl? Maybe they killed him!', and gave me a month to try and track him down, or they would attack the farm. Once I reloaded back at the Ghost Farm, I went back to The Den first and talked to Karl, then went back to Jo so I could finish the quest. A little annoying, but at same time, I like that the game takes that into account. I just didn't think to talk to Karl because I stupidly forgot to read that in the guide, but discerning who's an NPC you can converse with and who's just a generic citizen is difficult. You get the quest from Becky to collect money from Fred, but the message box text doesn't identify him as 'Fred', but as 'a citizen of the Den'. I dunno how much of what I sold to get the cash for Sulik came from looting the containers or from selling the radscorpion tails I got. Cashflow is actually another one of the issues I'm having. The Nearly Ultimate Fallout 2 Guide says that at point, you don't have to worry about cash, but I haven't gotten to that point yet. It's why I didn't pick up Vic while I was in the Den. You have to pay $1000 to free him, and that would have left me with only like $100 or so left over. I thought maybe I'd get a lot of loot off the guards at the church once they were defeated, but you don't get a lot from them. Rappaport posted:What bugs me is that the game subverts its own expectations. The game has rooms full of containers you can interact with, and a lot of them are just empty. This is explicitly wasting the player's time, since other locations do reward checking places. I noticed too that there are a lot of empty containers, and areas that are just kind of sparse. Trapper Town has a lot of ground to cover, and the building are a bit of a maze, but there's only a small handful of things to pick up. One issue I have is that I'm not sure which things count as a container, and which aren't. You can hold Shift to highlight pickups on the ground (don't know if that's in the vanilla game, or if it's added by one of the patches), but containers aren't highlighted, so you just have to mouse over things and see if you get the Hand icon to interact with them. I was trying to figure out where you find some of the items in the rat caves because it says to check the pile of bones, but I didn't think that was a container (although to be fair, I spent so much time trying to find it because I progressed to the next floor of the caves, and was looking in the wrong place). Part of the problem could be that I'm playing the game in widescreen, and so some elements end up really small. When doing the Temple of Trials, I could only barely see the pressure plates you have to disarm. At the same time, though navigating overall is a lot easier when you can see the entirety of an area at once, instead of having to scroll constantly. Rappaport posted:It's not a "skill issue" as the children these days say, F2 is just a rough ride at the start no matter what you do (unless as you say you metagame it to hell and go pick up power armour and a late game gun in the first 20 mins). I don't really mind, but I do notice it in myself that I'm more reluctant to pick up a completely new gaming experience these days I considered doing this, because when I finally played through Arcanum, I went with the cheese build where you just spam the Harm spell to get through encounters. I ended up really liking the game, but I realize part of that was because I went with that build to help make combat less of a chore. Additionally, Arcanum has the real-time/turn-based toggle, which you can also exploit.
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Mar 16, 2024 17:32
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if it keeps kicking my teeth in 15+ hours into the experience, so obviously the nostalgia goggles are a factor.
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| # ¿ May 10, 2024 04:23 |
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Rappaport posted:I'm playing with the Steam F2 install, and if I go to the game options from the main menu, I can adjust the display options to scale the resolution by a factor of two, so it blows up the sprites and graphics to twice their size even on a sensible resolution. I think this might be from the high res patch? Oh, that's the issue. I thought the 'Scaling x2' box was already ticked. I did that and I got a proper view. Well, since that post, I've been continuing with Fallout 2, and managed to finish it today. I don't remember the exact order in which I did things, but once New Reno, I started going back-and-forth between various towns to do quests to get some more levels. I remember I got up to Level 10 so I could do the sheriff quests in Redding. I went back to Broken Hills to fix the mine purifier and resolve the conspiracy quest so I could recruit Marcus and have a full party along with Sulik and Cassidy. At some point, I picked up the .223 pistol, which helped give me an edge in combat. I know this isn't anything new, but having party members is sometimes more of a hindrance than a help. It helps to have people along to carry stuff, and with the character I made, backup was probably necessary. However, even with the improvements F2 made to companions, they're still not as efficient as I'd like. There was a lot of friendly fire bursts, and I had to reload a few times because someone got killed because of it. Other times, though, they wouldn't use bursts when it seemed like it'd be safer. Sometimes, they act weird about deciding on melee vs ranged. I wish you had direct control over your followers, because it would make some combat encounters a lot easier if you could focus them on priority targets. Anyway, I eventually made it to San Francisco, and from there, I got the quest from the BoS to go to Navarro, and I was able to get the Advanced Power Armor. That was the point where things I think started to really turn around for the better, because I was able to accomplish everything I needed in the base without having to fight my way out (though it took some reloads, because figuring out the dialog trigger to get the vertibird plans is weirdly specific). With the Advanced Power Armor, combat got a lot easier to handle, since you can shrug off a lot of damage. I dispatched the Hubologists and got the Shi to refuel the tanker, but then I hit a roadblock with the hold full of wanamingos and other mutated creatures down in the ship hold. I decided to start revisiting some locations to get some better gear for followers (the G11E for Sulik, and the Bozar for Marcus). I resolved some other miscellaneous quests I had, dispatched Metzger and the New Reno families (save for the Wrights), and then came back to the tanker. The combat still took a couple of tries, but eventually I got through it. I left the team behind and went to the Oil Rig solo. It was here where I hit another issue: I couldn't get the access key from Richardson without starting combat with everyone on the floor, so I ended up using save game editor to give myself some extra Super Stimpacks for a quiet takedown. From there, I convinced the scientist Curling that the whole mutant extermination plan was bad, and he released the toxin in the base. However, I realized that in doing that, you can't talk to the doctor on the floor below to shutdown the reactor, and that the only other way to destroy the reactor (at least from what I read) is with an explosive, but I hadn't brought any. As a result, I had to reload a save from before talking to Curling, and then speak to the doctor downstairs so I could destroy the reactor. From there, I made my way back to the entrance, found Granite's squad and convinced them to help me fight Horrigan, and then I used the Access Key to start the turrets. From there, I just watched as the squad and the turrets took down Horrigan. Left the Oil Rig and that was it. Final stats: code:I think my overall issue with the game revolves largely around combat. Increasing the combat speed to max helps out a lot (although I didn't do this until near the end), but even then, the general flow of combat still just feels kind of stilted, since it won't be until late in the game where you have ability to attack twice per round. It also seems like you spend a lot of the game being really fragile. I don't know if having a higher EN would help with that, or if you just have to prioritize getting better armor. Investing in skills like Speech and such will let you avoid combat in a lot of quests, but you can still get in a bind if you get caught in a random encounter with really strong foes, or if finishing a quest require you to engage in combat (ex. fighting Darion and the raiders in Vault 15).
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Mar 23, 2024 18:37
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