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GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Sonic has been the subject of so many memes and gone through so much pop-culture mutation -especially on the internet- that it's often hard to see the games for what they are anymore. This is primarily true for Sonic The Hedgehog (2006), which is by far the least polished product Sonic Team has ever produced. We're going to be playing that one, today.

What sets this LP apart, exactly?

I'll be discussing the level/game design, and demonstrating how to S-Rank every Sonic stage.

Wait, why?

Sonic The Hedgehog is, when you get down to it, just a failed videogame. It was ambitious, over-hyped by its marketing team, rushed through development, and it came out broken. It deserves the same chance every other videogame should get: to be thoroughly analyzed for both its successes and faults, regardless of its pre-release hype, series-related stigma, or memetic reputation.

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Extras







GamesAreSupernice fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Mar 17, 2018

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GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:

You're loving mad.

Or am I the mad one for watching along?

eventually if enough people go mad, mad will become the new normal


The Door Frame posted:

You know, I've watched a dozen or so LP's of this game, and this is the first time I've ever seen that cave in the Mach Speed section. I always assumed that the turn onto that ramp was too tight to reliably reach it

You've definitely got my attention

the turn is super doable, but you have to have more faith in the controls than i think anyone else was willing to


mandatory lesbian posted:

look i like you but you might be literally insane

i like you too! you post with a serial experiments lain avatar and make good comments; i'm not sure about the insanity part but i'll get back to you after some introspection


Ramos posted:

Well, I guess I'm watching this game again.

i play Sonic 2006 at least once every year so i think we can suffer together


SSNeoman posted:

GASN, please call a helpline. You don't need to suffer alone like this :(

Horrible Lurkbeast posted:

Neoman please. OP clearly has some issues he's trying to work through, suffering is necessary for catharsis.

I can't remember just how much of this game I played before throwing my controller away and uninstalling, you must be made of sterner stuff OP.

i actually thought planning routes through all the levels and figuring out how to optimize score was pretty fun! the worst parts were the loading times



BioEnchanted posted:

Nothing can stop him - he has the Passion - the Playable Passion :v:

fancy seeing you here, i like the new signature

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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KieranWalker posted:

The game is fundamentally broken, but I really wanted to like it. I do enjoy aspects of it--hell, I'm a sucker for twisty temporal loop plot lines like this, so I even kind of like the story. There are a few places where it even feels playable, I dare say not bad, but they are far outstripped by everything else.

it's definitely a bad game, but everyone already knows that, so i wanted to talk about its positives a bit instead

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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i actually think the really absurd range on the homing attack is a positive

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Discendo Vox posted:

This one's going down in the history books for sure. Glad to be here from the beginning.

edit: wait, just the sonic stages? aww

it's definitely possible to s-rank all the other characters' stages! and i'm showing how to S-Rank some of Shadow's stages too

source: i've done it myself

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Samovar posted:

Well GASN, you are an odd fellow, but I must say:

You S-rank a bad sonic game.

Both of these are accurate statements!

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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It's time for a change of pace. We're S-Ranking one of Shadow's stages.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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There is a reason this LP is focusing entirely on the Action Stages. The adventures stages weren't an awful idea, but the original Adventure and even Unleashed did them better.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Chaining homing attacks still seems like the best combat option, but I can't blame them for trying to branch out.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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BioEnchanted posted:

I agree on the sense of speed in the 3D games feeling much bigger than the earlier ones, largely because in the later ones they could do interesting things with the tech that hadn't been thought of before - in Unleashed when I first left the soundtrack behind while boosting because I was actually moving faster than the speed of sound, that was a magical moment for me and what put me firmly in the "Liking Unleashed" camp

i thought that was a great touch too!

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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judge reinhold posted:

I like the fact you're doing a "new take" on this well-trodden game as opposed to the same crap we've seen for over a decade now about it. Good stuff! I've enjoyed the videos so far.

next i'm gonna S-Rank "The Golden Compass" on PS2



KieranWalker posted:

Homing attack chains are definitely the way to do combat fast for Sonic; they pull it off nicely in a few of the games, and the ones where it doesn't work so well are usually down to wonky targeting (here's looking at you, Sonic Adventure 2).

i think Sonic Unleahsed, Colors, Generations, and Forces have the homing attack almost perfect

i'd say Lost World too, 'cept I haven't seen much of that

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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the power of love

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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I think Sonic Team intentionally includes shortcuts in absurd places, dating all the way back to the original Adventure

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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pointlessone posted:

I can't believe that you're making this game look this playable. The ideas and set pieces of the levels were good and these S rank runs make them actually look fun.

You're making the pumpkin into a carriage, you madman of a magician! This LP is amazing, it's a glimpse of what could have been.

I'm going to save this post because it makes me feel good about myself

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Horrible Lurkbeast posted:

Its all true, I wanted to say much the same thing.

Thanks, genuinely


Dr. Fetus posted:

You're crazy, but I just wanted to say that this is a very interesting take on the game.

I'm not sure it's a take, so much as I'm just using the game mechanics for their intended purposes

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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There's a little-known glitch where you can use the apples to push Paganini into the nearby cliffside, which causes him to launch into the game's code. The same clumsiness that caused him to up-end the barrels and spill the apples everywhere will cause the game itself to up-end, spilling the entire universe. If the player waits approximately 3 hours as the broken pieces of reality swirl around, the mission will then reset and the game's physics will now allow for the kind of precision that will make placing apples in barrels possible without wobbling Silver around left and right to clump the apples in the vague shape required to drop them maybe somewhere in the general vicinity of the barrel's openings.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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If they would have removed the snowboarding segment before release, I would adore this level. The snowboarding is one of those few instances -outside of Town Missions- where it's seemingly impossible to make use of the mechanics to their full potential.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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The last section of the level is so open that you can legitimately wander around and get lost. I think the idea was to forge your own route and decide what was/wasn't important to your high score run. You could definitely fight more enemies and get an S-Rank that way, but I prefer my style.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Kurui Reiten posted:

I mean, you can literally go through the lasers to the right of where you start in that section, and go right to the end of the level in like twenty seconds.

But do I get to climb the searchlight if I do that?


Augus posted:

it's kinda just a giant mostly empty circle that they dropped some objects into haphazardly.
it's easy to get lost there because the game is really terrible at guiding you with visual elements and the camera is inherently disorienting.
like, okay the game is playable at times, if you approach it in the right manner, but I'm not really seeing much "game design" here. the levels are very slapped together and nothing really flows together in a sensible way. the game is at its "best" when it's limiting your possible engagement with the mechanics as much as possible (because the mechanics suck) so that all you need to do is press A a few times

I feel the final section of White Acropolis better suits Shadow than it does Sonic.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Captain Foo posted:

"I kinda want to eat a dick" *immediately faceplants into wall*

Sonic does not turn with grace

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Discendo Vox posted:

He has no style
He has no grace
This hedgehog has
poorly considered point and viewpoint perspective-derived turning radius problems inherited from previous games

his turning's considerably worse in this one


The Door Frame posted:

Watching all the speedruns that I have, the way you avoid taking damage from the snowball is glitching out the speed of the snowboard so you're moving at like 2.5x speed and it can't keep up with you. Every other playthrough gets hit at least once and sometimes misses the final jump

i wish the snowboarding just worked

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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I refuse to play the missions on anything other than "Normal" difficulty, but I am aware of the infamously un-inspired DLC.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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A good poster posted:

There's a Unity port in the works, at least.

i'm 99% sure it's not going to be finished since the lead programmer left

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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HardDiskD posted:

Are you planning to show the story at some point? Or it is just irredeemable, even in your eyes?

i think the story is the second least broken thing about the game (the best part of the game bein' the music of course), but enough people have seen the story and heard about the story that i don't feel the need to go over that

it's not like i can s-rank the cutscenes or anything, sadly

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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alright, i laughed

if anyone can find some sort of measure for me to "S-Rank" the cutscenes, i'll make an extra video

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Lord_Magmar posted:

The obvious answer is to be able to voice over the cut-scenes, to prove your mastery of the story that you can voice the characters.

The more accurate your words and emotions are to the characters the better Rank you get.

I don't think my microphone could handle that


Earnestly posted:

Speed run the cutscenes. How fast can you press start, then down, then X to skip? It's actually a frame perfect trick.

I'm not cut out for frame-perfect inputs


Samovar posted:

Impressive skills, but even then that level looked as cack-handed as gently caress.

It's an understatement to say it's flawed, but I think everyone knows that already

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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judge reinhold posted:

Just steal this video from the REAL Sonic fan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr0RfvnuVqg

He may be real, unlike myself, but is he passionate?

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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ScurvyKip posted:

Not being finished didn't stop this game from being released.

I don't think the developers of the Unity port had a big publisher like Sega to answer to, or money to lose

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Simply Simon posted:

I'm super into this LP because in an ideal world, I'd have done it myself. However, I don't have a PS3, nor a way to record it, nor am I doing much LPing anymore.

But ever since I saw the first "lol at this mess" people bumble their way through the stages, I had the burning desire to play this legend of badness for myself because I so adore rear end-games, and I always thought "come on man, this one is for sure on you". And yup, often, it is. Your analysis is spot-on, Sonic 06 is really loving bad, but someone, at some point, designed parts of some levels, and those parts almost work, and when they come through, it is actually fun. I personally consider most games like a puzzle presented by the designers - almost all games are designed to be winnable, and there is most of the time one or two "intended" ways, and I like finding those intended ways. Sometimes in this game, the intended ways plain don't work, but I imagine that every stage at least was played through by one person once at the very least, and this one time they said "okay, this works fine I guess, let's test the next, shipping is tomorrow", and I like finding this one path that does, indeed, work every time.

Sadly, my friend's PS3 where I was playing the game on died at some point and he never got it fixed (bought a PS4 instead), and I can't be arsed to buy a used one myself JUST to play this garbage fire which I somehow adore a little too unironically, but I got a good ways in and yes, YES it's fun to play sometimes, God drat it, and more often than people might think. I'd not S-Rank it once I eventually maybe get a computer that can run a PS3 emulator, but I might consider finding all the silver medals.

Individual video comments!
- ONE: The stage has obviously been worked on the most because it's the first and it shows the potential quite well. Some semi-hidden optional and faster side paths, secrets and rewards tucked away, it's worth replaying and exploring. However! I personally think the Tails sections are super pointless because playing them "normally" is painfully tedious because his attack sucks dicks (in an unfun way!), and you should just skip the fighting anyway, so you might as well skip it all (as shown), so...you might as well not play them. Their "design" is there, but inconsequential.
Also, the mach speed section is maybe the most working one but it's still super super bad and will kill you at a moment's notice. When you veered off into these walls and slid off juuust right to continue running, I thought that you'd get hit every time. And you might as well have been, the physics are so so bad.
- EXT: I fully agree with your assessment of Shadow's combat. It's awkward and hilarious but to me, kicking things in the face with just one button until they die and zipping between weak mooks is simply satisfying on a very basic level. The gliding section is rear end, though. I never got around to Shadow's later levels so I cannot comment on Omega, he looks super unfun tbh.
- TWO: a weirdly fun level considering its super awful on paper gimmick. As your main movement abilities still work, you can largely ignore Elise's love bubble, and the level design allows you to just fly over everything as shown. I'm a sucker for homing to and fro with springs and boosts and poo poo, it's...good?
- THREE: Generally I think this game's soundtrack is hilariously awful, from the infuriatingly catchy for how disgustingly simple it is hook from His World to the absurd banjo notes for the results screen, but I genuinely enjoy the synthy poo poo the snowboard section pulls. Which is the only good thing I'll ever say about it, that final jump is the worst thing in the universe*. The small on-foot part for Sonic is nice if you don't lose your speed, it feels like a game. The Tails section, again, is completely broken by him being able to fly (how is this a surprise to the designers?) and again might as well not exist. I think one of the laser wall switches is completely broken or something, I tried playing it legit once and gave up at some point of not being able to progress no matter what unless I chose your path of just flying over everything.
The final section is baffling unless you realize that they obviously designed it for Shadow first (with driving around the big snowfields and up broad ramps), then hastily put some laser walls and grindrails some places to try and completely fail to guide Sonic along a path that leads a bit around the perimeter of the wide half-circle-ish thing the map forms. Obviously it is maybe well intentioned but one of the instances in this game where it's probably the biggest challenge to try and figure out what they were even going for; truly a remarkable puzzle posted by the designers, but in practice, it's far, far better to just skip the lot with one of the game's funner glitches (the ones that always work reliably and only in your advantage).



*that's not true, there's a lot of jumps in Sonic 06 that are of also quite galactic awfulness.

The snowboarding jump is the only jump I can think of where there's no specific key to victory

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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The second Eggstra video

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Kerning Chameleon posted:

I think it's commonly agreed that the weakspot on the butt is so that Silver can attack this boss, since he fights it too and can't attack in the manner Sonic or Shadow do. Except they use the same boss for all three characters and oops turns out Sonic has an ability that can allow him to hop up and attack the butt too.

I'm not S-Ranking Sonic 2006 because I am a "commonly agreer"

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Kurieg posted:

I hate how the boss fights end in this game, the machine barely touched the ground, a few explosion textures showed up and then it jump cuts to the score screen.

They could certainly have more flair

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Has anyone ever been hit by the Egg-Genesis suicide attack, though?

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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This seems like a good opportunity to keep mentioning how sweet the Egg Viper fight was, anyway

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Glazius posted:

Does it not float low enough for that the first couple times, do the lasers get in the way?

It's just easier/safer to reach with a couple of the legs gone

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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I have S-Rank footage of the remaining levels, but I forgot which one comes next. I am too lazy to look it up. Please help me. Was it Crisis City? It's probably Crisis City.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Kingdom Valley gives me PTSD sometimes.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Kurieg posted:

I like the music, but the stage itself is terrible. Though I don't think the mach speed section is as bad as radical train's.

Kingdom Valley has the second-easiest Mach Speed section.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Kurieg posted:

The first is crisis city' right? Other than the occasional bullshit car thrown by the tornado I don't think there are any "gotchas".

Crisis City is easy for normal play, but for S-Ranking it is by far the hardest, hands down.

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GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Augus posted:

a majority of the stuff in Sonic 2006 could be accurately described as "Like Sonic Adventure 1 but more lame"

Unfortunately, yeah. It does also have many things to its own, though.

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