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Dead Reckoning posted:despite sub replacement fertility, our population continues to grow due to inertia. what? Other than birth and immigration where are you saying people are coming from?
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Feb 11, 2018 22:46
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tsa posted:What's your solution for the real world, the one where you can't just tear down and rebuild entire agencies at your whim? ICE has existed for less time than family guy has.
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Feb 27, 2018 17:21
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Instant Sunrise posted:Under the present system, somebody must have a US company sponsor them in order to immigrate to the US on an H-1B visa, this lets them live and work in the US for 6 years (10 if the company is a defense contractor). The thing is, the whole visa system isn’t about becoming citizens and it’s good to have simple temporary visas too and it’s less that the h1b system itself is bad and more that the whole system is so bad that a little temporary work visa program got overloaded into being a system people have to use as an immigration system and it’s bad at being that. Like in a better system the people that wanted to move here would have a functioning system then the people that needed to work here for a year on a specific job then leave could have h-1bs to be a quick and simple thing. Like lots of countries you just fill out a form and pay a hundred bucks and you can come in and work some limited scope job then leave and that is a separate thing from the more complicated actual plan to live there system.
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Mar 1, 2018 06:46
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Absurd Alhazred posted:But you can't ignore the possibility that someone who wants to "just" work here might decide they also want to live here, either on the merits of quality of life, or because they got romantically involved with someone here. I mean, every time you take a weekend trip to canada you don't want to go through the whole rigamarole of becoming a canadian citizen, you WANT there to be a system for temporary entry that is separate from the immigration system. Once the guy falls in love and changes jobs there should be a new more immigration focused form he goes and fills out. "Improving" the temporary visa system and keeping people in it isn't actually good for them, by design it's meant to be a lesser system for people that don't need full immigration rights. The problem isn't that that exists, since it should exist, the problem is that the greater system has been crippled so people have no choice but use the temporary entry system to be a permanent entry system with no path between the two. But even in a utopian open border society you'd still want the two tiers of the guy coming in for 9 months to set up a factory that doesn't have to deal with all the paperwork to sign up for all the long term systems that will never apply to him and the open immigration where you come in and sit down and they sign you right up for access to rights and services of a US citizen.
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Mar 1, 2018 14:27
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moving to a country is actually different from temporarily going to a country and it’s fine to have two systems since what each group wants and needs is different. The issue isn’t that temporary visas exist, the problem is people forced into them that should have had better options. It’s like visiting a friend, stay for a week and you absolutely do not want to get written into the lease, plan to stay and being kept out of the lease harms you. Different systems for different situations. If you are moving here you want the rights and responsibility of being a citizen ASAP, if you are just here to set up a machine at the new factory and leave you want a simple system that never engages you in anything that doesn’t apply to you. Having two good systems and people free to use the right one for their situation and move between them as needed is ideal, not mashing everyone in some bad compromise.
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Mar 2, 2018 06:04
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Do you need a visa to visit your friend? In another country? sure, if it's a country that requires visas for visiting. In the apartment analogy? The point of that analogy is that you gently caress someone over if you force someone to be put on the lease to stay the night but that you also gently caress someone over to be "kind" and let them stay for years and years and deny them the rights being on the lease would give. And you want someone to be able to stay short term just on light verbal permission but someone that really lives there wants to be on the lease day one. And the two systems are for people with different wants and needs and just mashing the entry visa system to be a bad immigration system or to mash the immigration system to be a bad visitor visa system are both bad and the solution is to actually fix the problems and have both, not make everything worse by making it impossible to immigrate here then force people into some eternal second class citizen state because they are in a program not made for people that are citizens.
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Mar 2, 2018 14:35
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Absurd Alhazred posted:But sometimes it might work out, you visit a friend and realize you want to live in that area - if it works with that friend (say they're looking for a roomate anyway), you can talk to the landlord about getting in on the lease; if you don't, then you find another apartment there. Your friend could ask you to leave his specific house and maybe will remove you by force if you insist, but you won't get deported back to Michigan or barred from that area. I mean, this metaphor is getting muddled up, but yes, when you are just visiting it's correct that your friend should be able to just say "get out" and you have to, once you have moved in fully you should have legal immunity and even standing to your friend. Countries that aren't broken manage this, they have it so if you work short term you fill out a short form and your company submits a thing then you can work for the length of the contract, and it's not even part of the immigration system at all and it's only when you have intent to immigrate they actually collect the needed information and do the interviews and whatever. Like at the very least even in super utopia when you show up at the airport you'd want two lines, one where they give you a SSN so you can get enrolled right in all the utopian social programs and one where the guy stamps your passport and waves you through and says not to worry about anything (and the company submits a one page tax form on you if you are working).
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Mar 2, 2018 14:59
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Why would you need two lines at the airport? Why not manage moving to an open-borders country the same way you manage moving from one state to another? Or from one EU state to another? I mean, why even have countries at all I guess. In a world with countries though the answer is that a new factory is opening in wyoming and two men from germany are starting work there, one of them is a german engineer hired to set up a chemical mixer, he's gonna set it up, make sure it runs for 6 months then leave and never come back or think about it again and have a happy german life. the other guy was born in germany but moved to the US and got this cool new factory job and has a wife and kid now and votes in every election and has honk if you love america tattooed on his butt and is american and barely even remembers he used to be german where he will never return ever again. Both of those things are valid. A system for foreign workers who are foreign and want to stay foreign can and should exist along side a system of becoming american. They aren't the same thing, and either person would be annoyed and frustrated to have to go through the other's process or system or have the status the other is assigned.
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Mar 2, 2018 15:29
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You get that california and new york both have the same federal government, right? That the reason you don't need to do paperwork to move is that you are still in the same country and they still have all the paperwork you filled out over your life. Like I can imagine a reciprocal agreement with the EU or something where we share databases to make relocation easy, but like, we aren't very near some one world government thing where information on everyone on earth is in just one big database any country can search. We will still need an immigration system even if we make some deals with particular countries we might sign a deal to have like england share citizen data so we can import it automatically, but we aren't making that deal with the government of Libya or something any time soon.
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Mar 3, 2018 03:42
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Absurd Alhazred posted:What are the things that are shared on the Federal level? Are you asking me what the US government is?
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Mar 3, 2018 04:42
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I'm asking you what is it that you think that the federal government has about you that is relevant for allowing someone to move to your state. Aside from the very fact that you are a US citizen, of course, but we're trying to establish a contrast with open borders, so that aspect is not relevant. Social security? Criminal record? Selective service registration? Passports? All the dozens of state issued things that are managed nationally to be nationally equivalent ? I don’t feel like I know what your asking.
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Mar 3, 2018 06:46
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Social security and passport are just information that says that you are a US citizen. Selective service registration doesn't mean anything, either. No state checks your criminal record before allowing you to move there. I am really struggling to understand what you are asking. The US has a federal government then smaller provinces called states. If you go to a different state you are still in the same federal government. You don't need to fill out paperwork to get a background check or prove your marriage or show your tax information or prove you are able to drive or anything when you move states because the information all either already sits at a national level or was issued by a local government given authority to grant those things in a way that is valid nationally. Like think of all the interactions you've had with state government, they are US states, if you go to a state in cambodia or france or something they don't know any of that stuff and none of it automatically transfers or is given to you on forms that are inherently valid there. If you take a trip to cameroon and somehow decide to get a legal name change or some other government function and then come back to arizona they are going to make you have to actually tell someone you did that and fill out forms telling them, they don't know, they don't talk to cameroon about that stuff, the forms cameroon issues aren't entered anywhere in the US. and if something asks for your birth certificate and the name is wrong you aren't going to be able to just pull out some random paper and be like "camaroon said it's okay". Like literally any interaction you've had with the state or local government, only that government knows you did it, putin doesn't bolt awake from his sleep with a psychic message everytime someone in thailand gets married. If you want another government to know you gotta tell them too (typically by handing them the proof the other government gave you) if you move states you are still under the same government or in local governments that talk to each other and can say "yeah, we got a record of that and we all use a minimum of the same set of general standards" if you pull out an alaska drivers licence in texas or a marriage licence from hawaii or a birth certificate from oregon. If you go to australia, they don't know what you did in connecticut and the forms from connecticut are only valid in that they let you get new forms from the other country if needed. Owlofcreamcheese fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Mar 3, 2018 |
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Mar 3, 2018 07:35
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Come on, read your own link, jesus. https://apnews.com/article/immigration-donald-trump-mexico-0fe1661697279584fbb0ecf623cb6187 "President Donald Trump introduced in January 2019 and Biden suspended on his first day in office. A federal judge sided with the states of Texas and Missouri by ordering the Biden administration in August to reinstate the policy"
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Oct 16, 2021 15:25
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| # ¿ May 16, 2024 11:17 |
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Bel Shazar posted:That sounds a whole lot like a 'Just following orders' defense ???
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Oct 16, 2021 16:06
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