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Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Bicyclops posted:

The Master: Hey, who the hell took my fluid link? My fluid link was right here. *slamming fists on console* THIS STINKS!! THIS IS TOTAL BS!! THI- oh, here it is.

"Who's our next caller, River?"

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Narsham
Jun 5, 2008
1980s channel surfing, passed by a PBS compilation of Ark in Space in the first "episode", lingered briefly, returned at the moment that Tom and Ian are looking up from the table they'd been hiding behind. Four grins and say, "I think we've done it, Harry!"

Cue watching the rest of the story. Hooked. During the glory days, we had three separate PBS feeds and two of the channels had weekly Who, always the full compilation stories and not the 25-minute episodes.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Rhyno posted:

Bakula was talking about wanting to do a film as recently as last year.

It would be nice if Sam got home.

Clearly he did. But some other sucker named Dr. Sam Becket never did. Poor guy.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Wheat Loaf posted:

Frankly if Black and Dekker were going to reboot something, it should be A Nero Wolfe Mystery with Robbie Amell as Archie and Chi McBride as Wolfe. :allears:

Yes, Nero Wolfe is a great idea. There's multiple stories that I read and swore I'd seen on the TV show, only to discover that I hadn't. Chi has the chops for Wolfe, but if we take A Right to Die seriously, we need to cast a black man as Archie, too.

William Jackson Harper, maybe? Might be too old, especially given that McBride's a bit young for Wolfe. And I don't know how you top Colin Fox as Fritz.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Wheat Loaf posted:

Is that the one where Wolfe says something like, "If I were a black man, Mr Goodwin would have to be as well," and the inference is that Archie is actually Wolfe's son?

Right, although the inference being made is open to several interpretations and I think that "Archie is Wolfe's son" is one of the least plausible. Wolfe has some odd ideas sometimes about propriety. Also, I obviously did my math on McBride's age wrongly.

Narsham fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Mar 5, 2018

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Bicyclops posted:

I like the first part of that three-parter, but I sort of feel like the best resolution would have been the Doctor and Bill casually discussing how they got rid of the monks at the beginning of their completely unrelated next adventure.

I think the second episode is probably the worst, because there seems to be no reason why any of the military people are saying the things that they're saying, and it's so painfully long. The whole "This is not consent" thing was a weird mystery with an unsatisfying conclusion. At least the third one has some happy "the power of love somehow blew up the alien monsters, the love just made their hateful hearts explode" with an accompanying Murray Gold soundtrack.

The third could have redeemed some of the threads in the second if, you know, the second were in any way related to the third beyond cosmetic elements. I admit to finding all the people trying to surrender and getting killed because they didn't really mean it to be hilarious.

Really, there's a deeper waste of potential here. The Monks are all about living for/in the future, even down to their "we see you as corpses" comment. So have them both genuinely alien in their thought processes and ridiculously patient. They land, say that they predict a rolling climate disaster over the next 50-60 years, set a deadline for the point that they'll actually help rectify it, and just settle in for the long game. They aren't really invaders. They aren't harming people. They're just saying they predict a disaster and refuse to help unless they are put in charge. Does the Doctor even have grounds for fighting them?

This show can have the main characters skip ahead a decade at a time to see how things are going. Have a patient invasion lasting a century or two that you can only see happening with that perspective, and force the Doctor to fight a new kind of approach. It's like neither Moffat nor Harness have any confidence in the actual concept and have to gin up some sort of immediate crisis.

I look forward to the next review as I hate the third episode the most by a large margin. This one is contrived, but the majority of the damage done is to single-episode characters. The Doctor actually comes off fairly well.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Jerusalem posted:

The Doctor decides to pit his mind against the Monk's and remove them from the world's memory, but of course it's all too much even for him to try and he is blown away and temporarily knocked out. He wakes to find himself restrained as Bill decides to do something stupid since that worked last episode so well, and she's going to pit her mind against the Monk's. She knows it'll burn out her brain, but that will also kill her and remove the worldwide consent. The Doctor breaks free too late to stop her, and is powerless to break her free as the Monk - obviously no idiot - decides to just completely swamp her mind with images of the Monks and destroy her mind while keeping her brain intact. This is where the foreshadowing at the start of the episode comes in, as Bill looks to her mother in a time of stress and hits upon something the Monks can't touch.

Many have argued that this is the oft-decried "Power of Love" ending, which I disagree with (even if I don't think "Power of Love" is necessarily a bad thing) even in spite of how much poo poo I've talked about this episode. Because all of this has been foreshadowed and doesn't exist purely in this episode, but was seeded through previous episodes. The Monks change memories to infiltrate the minds of a population, but Bill's mother isn't a memory, she's a fantasy. Bill only has an image in her mind of her mother because the Doctor gave her those photos (I could have used without him explicitly stating this), and the Monks - whether restrained by their own anal nature or some gap in their poorly defined powers - can't actually affect that part of her brain. Bill's mother goes viral (double ugh) and wipes the Monks out of the world's memory (to be replaced with people suddenly wanting to call their mothers and say they love them? :3:), which causes the world's population to suddenly view them with disgust and distrust. Just as Missy promised, they don't stick around to fight or sulk or attempt to fight back, they just hoof it back to their "cathedral" and get the gently caress off the planet and that's that, and hopefully the last we see of them ever. Given they were Moffat creations, and not particularly well received ones, I think it'll probably be some time before we see them again.

What makes me really hate the resolution of Extremis in these two follow-up episodes isn't just that they're so poorly handled, it's that they waste so much potential that wherever you look or dig or scratch you come across even more potential gone to waste.

Because here's another idea wasted: the Monks aren't capable of imagination. They have their elaborate computer simulations of the future because that's the only way they can understand it. They're so focused on "pure consent" and mind-control of this sort not merely because it's an effective planet-conquering device, but because no alternative occurs to them. And when they're beaten, they just calmly integrate that into their simulation because they aren't imaginative enough to think "maybe conquering planets isn't the only thing we can do."

They're a kind of planet-wide jobsworth effect. The life you lead is the only possible life because who could imagine anything different? Of course a fantasy or an ideal simply isn't within their scope.

But here's the thing: the human experience is filled with fantasy, with imagination, with the impossible being treated as real. That's what Doctor Who is, among other things. By making Bill and Bill's mom the linchpin of the whole episode, Lie of the Land misses a wonderful opportunity to reimagine the end of Last of the Time Lords in a way that works. Humanity shouldn't suddenly have their fixed ideation overwritten by a fantasy woman. Every one of them should be inspired to unlock their own fantasies, whether singing a song or staring at a photo of them cosplaying or picking up a copy of Twelfth Night or what have you. The entire power of the human imagination, our ability to fall deeply in love with what doesn't exist and will never exist, but maybe should, could have been set against the Monk's narrow-minded "teaching to the test" literalism.

Then stick the stupid ending by instead having all of humanity defeat the invasion because they now think that they imagined the Monks from the beginning. Like the mythic War of the Worlds radio broadcast. The Doctor can say something pithy about the human power of delusion and how it makes people stupid, but also makes them powerful. And the Monks depart without having the foggiest idea what just happened. Don't shoot them, confuse them into defeat. That's what the Doctor's always been best at, after all.

(And don't get me started on the utterly missed opportunity to do something with religion. They are Monks introduced in the context of the Vatican, and the best we get is renaming their pyramid a "cathedral?")

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008
The Doctor: Niles, come over here. I've been watching someone from afar for a while and I think... DON'T WAVE!
Niles: But it's Maris!
The Doctor: It's not Maris. I think it's the Master.
Niles: Are you sure?
The Doctor: We're some distance away, but it looks like a man.
Niles: Could be Maris.
The Doctor: He frightened off some bums.
Niles: Could be Maris.
The Doctor: From time to time his head looks more like a skull.
Niles: Could be Maris.
The Doctor: I saw him eating some sort of fried food...
Niles: It's the Master. He really IS evil, isn't he?

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Attitude Indicator posted:

I don't know much about how tv-shows are written, but i'm wondering if a writing room won't homogenize the episodes?
One of the reasons i like Who is because you don't really know what you'll get. Will it ba a Zontaran Invasion or a Heaven Sent?

Maybe it means the next two or three-parter written by multiple people will show signs of actual coordination between story parts?

Really, I don't think Doctor Who is likely to ever be as homogenized as it was during the UNIT era or the Troughton "base under siege" era.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Astroman posted:

Or, more frighteningly, there's some private collector/fan who is an even bigger douche than Ian Levine, sitting on episodes. Maybe multiple fans.

But you'd think if they were true fans, they'd want to share these episodes with the rest of fandom, not get off in being the secret owner of the only copy of The Myth Makers or whatever, and not even being able to tell their closest friends...

Oh, I think we all know who is sitting on these episodes.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008
Now I want a multi-Doctor episode featuring Thirteen so that we can have one of the other characters say: "I quite liked her, but I couldn't stand him" at the end of it.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Dabir posted:

anyway there's probably nothing wrong with clara's fate in isolation but what cheesed a lot of people off about her was that she had a real air of being Moffat's pet character, and getting to be immortal and going off with another immortal to have adventures forever in her very own tardis is the most emphatic way he could have confirmed that idea

Hmm.
Rose: ends up on an alternate Earth with her mum and dad and human Ten. Fan reaction? Cheesed.
Martha: ends up appearing briefly on Torchwood and then coupled with Micky out of nowhere. Fan reaction? Scornful.
Jack: gets to be immortal. Downside: stars on Torchwood. Fan reaction? Mixed.
Donna: ends up having her memory (and character growth) scrubbed after being the first non-Time Lord companion given the chance to be the Doctor's equal. Fan reaction? Deeply pleased and traumatized.
Amy and Rory: get separated from the Doctor by a Weeping Angel and live complete lives together in New York City. Fan reaction? Pissed.
River Song: "River Song has been saved." Fan reaction? Bemused, then annoyed.
Clara: Refuses to get the Donna send-off. Goes off in a TARDIS to have adventures with Me. Fan reaction? Cheesed again. A companion who isn't dead or brain-wiped is clearly a Mary Sue.
Bill: Goes off in a liquid whatever-it-is as a liquid with liquid girlfriend to have adventures. Immortality possible but unclear. Fan reaction? Eye-rolling.

Conclusion? Doctor Who fans are terrible. Signed, A Fan.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Jerusalem posted:

The worst exit (which was fitting, as she was one of the worst characters) was Dodo. She literally just stopped being in the show halfway through a story and the Doctor's new companions told him,"Oh yeah she just decided to stay here" and he was all,"Whatever :shrug:" and that was that.

Tied for worst (exit, not companion) is Liz Shaw. Awesome companion, written out of the show without a word or mention.

To add insult to injury, her Five Doctors "reappearance" alongside Captain Mike Yates. "STOP HIIIIIIIIIIIIM!"

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

jivjov posted:

Genesis of the Daleks on the big screen was fun...but the cuts bringing it down to 90 minutes were a bit awkward in places

THANK you. That's what I wanted to know.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

sinepost posted:

Sounds like Underworld - it's about halfway through Tom's run.

The little musical tune that plays when they use the gravity elevator will be lodged in your brain forever.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008
In a desperate attempt to rehabilitate the image of the Daleks after that last post, I offer the following: The first, and only, Dalek comedian:

WHAT IS THE DEAL WITH CALLING THE DOCTOR "THE ONCOMING STORM?" HE IS NEVER GOING TO REIGN.

WHY ARE THE DALEKS SUPREMELY SKILLED AS STAND-UP COMEDIANS? BECAUSE WE CANNOT SIT DOWN.

WHAT DID THE THAL SAY TO THE DALEK? "PLEASE DO NOT EXTER-AAHHH..." ::pause:: THAT IS THE JOKE.

DID YOU HEAR ABOUT THE DALEK PEEPING TOM? HE WAS ARRESTED FOR EYE-STALKING.

DO YOU KNOW WHY THE DALEKS ARE SUPERIOR TO ALL OTHER SPECIES? ::pause:: NO? THAT IGNORANCE IS PART OF WHY WE ARE SUPERIOR! YOU WILL ALL LAUGH NOW OR YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Both Statler and Waldorf refused. Said something about not wanting to get Hurt.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Cleretic posted:

Gonna be honest, a plot device being a regenerating pizza is something I would be on board with.

"That's funny, I thought I couldn't have a pizza cut into more than 13 slices?"

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Spatula City posted:

the entire panel is worth watching. biggest pleasant surprise is that Tosin Cole is fuckin' hilarious, and I hope that translates to his character in the show.
Jodie Whittaker remains an absolute delight, a sheer force of nature, and every bit of publicity she does, it becomes more clear why Chibnall cast her.

One thing I recall noting about all three performers is how open and expressive they are. Seeing actors in this setting, sitting next to the bosses, and being utterly unguarded (except for spoilers, of course) hints at good things on the production side of things.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Edward Mass posted:

I keep wondering, what would the 60th anniversary special, should there be one, be about? Another Time Lords-related problem?

Susan.

Failing that, base something around past companions. Or maybe, depending on what develops with the Master/Missy between now and then, have the Doctor rescue her. (Actually, it'd be highly amusing to find out almost every one of the Master's many escapes were down to the Doctor saving him over and over in the hopes that she could be genuinely redeemed. Bring Gomez back as the newly regenerated Missy desperate to stop that from happening. Have the Doctor aided by the next incarnation of the Master.)

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

The_Doctor posted:

Honestly, no.

Now I'm imagining Timelash if the Borad had a flatulence problem.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Wheat Loaf posted:

"Underworld" is probably worse than even my least favourite Davies or Moffat era stories. Definitely ranks near the bottom of the all-time list. Not very interesting, not very memorable - that season of the show wasn't very good outside "City of Death".

Don't dare blaspheme the Nimon!

(Also, "Underworld" is in an entirely different season from "City of Death." The presence of Leela is a giveaway. Technically, I should have said not to blaspheme the Rutan, probably followed by "Praise the Company.")

Narsham fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Aug 17, 2018

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Bicyclops posted:

Old Who wasn't spectacularly great at the Cyberman either. Their best stories are with the First and Second Doctor. I think the first part of the most recent season finale did a good job with them, though. I also like a lot of the Death in Heaven two-parter, but the Cyberman are only in it as a sidebar to Missy's way of making the afterlife a reality and then perverting it to horror.

You'd think stuff like wearable computing and the total lack of empathy coming from the Elon Musk part of the tech sector would make them a relevant villain again, but they try to ask "How do we just do the old thing, but BIGGER?"

The whole "cybernetic limbs make you inhuman" thing is a lot more problematic now that there's a fair number of people who have artificial limbs.

The Cybus Cyberman episodes completely wasted the potential of "bluetooth and social media turn you into a Cyberman" and it's probably too late to get that back now.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

2house2fly posted:

Yeah, if all you have to do is chop your hand off right when you regenerate and keep it handy (yuck yuck) to make your next regeneration not count, surely all the Timelords would have been at it. That would have been a funny vision of Gallifrey in End Of Time though, if everyone had a hand or foot just chilling in a formaldehyde jar on the table

Kinda puts the Hand of Omega into a whole new context, doesn't it?

"And didn't we have trouble with the prototype..."
(Flashback)
"Hold still Omega! I have to cut just right... no, you flinched again. The Fingernail of Omega just isn't going to cut it, if you'll pardon the expression."
(Flashback ends)
"Er... I meant 'they.'"

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Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Doctor Zero posted:

No. Not the suppository probe. :geno:

Would you prefer the Hand of Omega?

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