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I've been planning for a replacement for this shitheap for the better part of a year now.  Not too bad, right? It looked promising, anyway, when my wife and I bought the place in 2015. Especially since we were moving out of a tiny house in a busy neighborhood, with no garage and minimal basement. The prospect of separate workshop space was good enough for me. We loved the house, and still do. But, this little garage that couldn't had some problems. You might notice in the picture above, it looks like it's got a bit of a lean to the left. That's not a trick of perspective, it really was few inches off the bubble from top to bottom. You might also notice the roof is a bit wavy, or the cladding and trim are in contact with the concrete driveway. What's more is what you can't see here; the foundation had failed in multiple places, there was evidence of wood-boring insect damage, and the floor was a sort of hand-packed asphalt that is more appropriate for filling potholes.  And, about an inch below grade, to boot (garage floor left, driveway right). Electric service consisted of two single-bulb fixtures and a single outlet. A raccoon lived in the loft. Etc, etc. We decided to scrap it and start anew. That was July of last year. Since then, progress has been excruciatingly slow. Permitting, a new baby, a demanding work schedule, and most recently, uncooperative weather have joined forces to try to sink this project. But, I wasn’t having it. Just last week, we took delivery on the timbers. Tomorrow, the excavators will be here and the foundation guys are set up to follow. There may be a foot of snow on the ground, but goddamn it this is going to happen. Mister Dog fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Feb 12, 2018 |
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Feb 11, 2018 21:57
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I'll bring you guys up to speed. Like I said, this was last July when we decided to go ahead. Since we were starting from scratch, we had many options going ahead, roughly four: 1. Purchase a kit from Menards/HD/local lumber yard. 2. Purchase pre-engineered plans, then take those to the lumber yard. 3. Hire an architect for a custom plan, then take that to the lumber yard. 4. Contract the whole thing to a builder. We didn't really like what we found with 1 and 2. We live in an old house in an old neighborhood, and none of the pre-spec'd stuff really seemed match the style of either. 3 seemed like overkill for a simple 3-car garage, and 4 was a non-started. Hell, one of the reasons I wanted to do this was to take on a project of this size myself. I knew I'd have to contract some of it, but was p excited about putting up the actual structure. I bit of research and debating, blah, blah, blah, we located a company in New England that specializes in pre-cut post-and-beam kits. And, they were having a sale!. So plan A was to put up something like this:  This was one of their standard kits, the one on sale, and seemed to fit the bill. It would have ample shop space, parking for the cars, and a walk-up loft. I got a hold of a set of plans. Onward to permitting!
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Feb 12, 2018 00:36
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Sorry about the piecemeal intro. My kids are assholes who won't let me do anything independent of them for more than 5 minutes. Anyway, permitting! We had an extra step, since we live in an historic district. As such, any large scale projects first require approval from an historical preservation committee before they can proceed. It was a bit of a pain and one of the reasons for delay, but I'm actually still ok with having them. A big reason we chose to live here is for the neighborhood. So, if I have to jump thru a few extra hoops to help preserve the its character, so be it. Well, I took the plans to the committee and they hated it. Thought it looked too much like a barn (which is was). But as this is well within the city limits, the consensus was it would look terribly out of place. So while I did win approval for demolition of the existing garage, I was sent back to the drawing board (literally) with a few suggestions. I learned to use Sketchup and resubmitted an application. That was in July. The next committee meeting would be in August. Here's what we came up with:  Not terribly complicated. This was approved with the caveat that I would use cladding and trim to match the house. Not a problem. Before we could send the plans to the timber mill, the engineer had to run over them again. This would take a month. Meantime, I had a demolition permit and a week off. Time to get to work. I put in a few days work with a sledge and a pry bar, removed the doors, windows, then the siding. With nothing to withstand racking forces, all it took was a quick tug on a chain attached to the front wall to get this.  Which scared the absolute poo poo out of the neighbors. And yeah, that's right, I bought a Bagster. I, of course, quickly realized my mistake and ordered a proper dumpster right then and there. If I needed any further confirmation that tearing down and starting over was the right choice, I found it in the course of the demolition. Particularly, insect damage was far worse than I had thought. This is one of the front corners.  I guess that would explain the lean the building started to take. About another day with a sledge, circular saw (RIP), and sheer force of will, and all but the foundation was hauled away. About a month later, the engineer had finally spec'd the beams, plans went off to building inspection, we had a bit of a back-and-forth about stupid details, and the building permit was approved the day before Thanksgiving. As I have no access to an excavator, forms, or any of the other important bits that make pouring a foundation possible, I had to contract this out. Locating a contractor still working thru the winter who could produce a reasonable bid took another two months. Add another month or so of miscellaneous delays and here we are. Here's the site at it looks today:  A damned icy mess. I put up a silt barrier at the back of the site and cleared any of the miscellaneous rubbish that I could. The timbers have been delivered and are sitting in storage down the street. The excavators are going to start digging this week. poo poo will hopefully start moving relatively quickly here, so if anyone is still reading, I'll keep you guys updated. Mister Dog fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Feb 12, 2018 |
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Feb 12, 2018 04:43
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Definitely reading, keep on posting.
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Feb 12, 2018 06:24
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Mister Dog posted:I'll bring you guys up to speed. Like I said, this was last July when we decided to go ahead. Since we were starting from scratch, we had many options going ahead, roughly four: I'm biased as an architect but it depends on how much your time is worth. For one, an architect would have known what would pass you historic preservation board and would have signed and sealed your plans. A month to calculate some beams for a box is pure crap.
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Feb 12, 2018 15:09
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xwing posted:I'm biased as an architect but it depends on how much your time is worth. For one, an architect would have known what would pass you historic preservation board and would have signed and sealed your plans. A month to calculate some beams for a box is pure crap. That's a good point. I think architects probably do a lot on a project that just makes things go more smoothly. It's hard to quantify, but one of the reasons why architects are underrated, IMO. And yeah, a month of waiting and I about had steam coming out of my ears.
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Feb 12, 2018 20:07
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We are looking at purchasing a B&B in Virginia. The current owners quarters are pitifully small (a 700sf studio) and I am considering adding on with timberframed addition. Following this thread. (I worked in TFing for a couple years and while I love it, it can get up there in cost rather quickly) OP, what was the company you were looking at getting the kit from? edit: Rather wish we had a timber framing megathread. This is the company and type of work I did Hasselblad fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Feb 12, 2018 |
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Feb 12, 2018 20:29
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Hasselblad posted:We are looking at purchasing a B&B in Virginia. The current owners quarters are pitifully small (a 700sf studio) and I am considering adding on with timberframed addition. Following this thread. Fancy! That’s some fine work you linked. I went with these guys: https://www.thebarnyardstore.com. Their 18’x20’ carriage barn is  as hell and I imagined could be modified as an addition or “tiny” house.
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Feb 12, 2018 23:16
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I'm extremely interested in this project. My current man-hero-crush is RR Buildings on youtube, his videos are great and he's a true master of his craft. Even more impressive is he operates mostly as a two man team. I also have rear end in a top hat kids that require all of my time!
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Feb 13, 2018 01:16
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dreesemonkey posted:I'm extremely interested in this project. My current man-hero-crush is RR Buildings on youtube, his videos are great and he's a true master of his craft. Even more impressive is he operates mostly as a two man team. Hell yeah, I’ve been watching that guy too. Covers a lot of ground quickly for a two-man crew, for sure. Not much moving today. Guy came by and made a few cuts where the driveway needs to be pared back.  And then he was gone. I thought we’d be breaking ground by today, but  . I remember reading something Tom Silva wrote a few months ago. He said most of being a general contractor is getting on people and making sure your subs show up when they are supposed to and complete the work you contracted them for. Amen, dude. Was sifting thru the demolition album and found this  That was the electric service coming into the garage. Unprotected Romex covered by just a few inches of dirt. Smh.
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Feb 13, 2018 22:36
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Mister Dog posted:I'll bring you guys up to speed. Like I said, this was last July when we decided to go ahead. Since we were starting from scratch, we had many options going ahead, roughly four: Oh, hey. I've been lusting after some of that company's stuff for a while. Going to be interested to see how your build goes!
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Feb 15, 2018 09:22
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Very nice, will be watching with interest.
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Feb 16, 2018 02:28
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Mister Dog posted:Fancy! That’s some fine work you linked. I went with these guys: https://www.thebarnyardstore.com. I wish the kits included more of a livable carriage house design. Guess they could be modified to be less barn-like upstairs. edit crosspost: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErGQ0rXkn74 Hasselblad fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Feb 16, 2018 |
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Feb 16, 2018 17:27
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Interested in this thread for sure. I went the lazy/I don't know what I'm doing route and paid a company to build my garage. Now I'm trying to find time to do up the insides as I want them while I deal with a 6 month old (who is adorable and perfect but cannot currently assist with garage work).
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Feb 17, 2018 07:13
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Hasselblad posted:I wish the kits included more of a livable carriage house design. Guess they could be modified to be less barn-like upstairs. The good ones are, mostly being a 1-2 bedroom house on the upper level, usually with a utility room on the ground floor for laundry and such.
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Feb 17, 2018 13:17
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Hasselblad posted:I wish the kits included more of a livable carriage house design. Guess they could be modified to be less barn-like upstairs. Well, now I feel like a bit of a bitch for ordering my beams pre-cut. Not much happened this week. The excavator came by and said that while he could dig the hole, with rain coming and snow melting, it would just fill before the footing could be poured. And, he was probably right. We got about an inch of rain over the past week, with the foot or so of snow on the ground melting, it was a right mess the past few days. Unfortunately, next week's forecast is calling for rain five of the next seven days, so gently caress.
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Feb 17, 2018 15:50
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Mister Dog posted:Well, now I feel like a bit of a bitch for ordering my beams pre-cut. I know right? You should also feel a bit of a bitch seeing as he blacksmiths his own tools. Dude is a manly man of the highest caliber. http://northmen.com/en/about-us/wooden-house-project Where are you on the earth that it is overcast cold and wet? I am seriously dreading moving back east. Hasselblad fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Feb 17, 2018 |
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Feb 17, 2018 17:16
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Hasselblad posted:I know right? You should also feel a bit of a bitch seeing as he blacksmiths his own tools. The upper Midwest. The weather being poo poo here is an ongoing joke, told again and again. With nothing going on outside, I took the chance to finish some work inside. Found quartersawn oak under raggedy-rear end carpet in this room, so I rented a floor sander. Here’s after tung oil and poly. Overall I’m p happy with how it turned out. 
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Feb 18, 2018 04:53
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Progress!  Got the remaining foundation and in-the-way concrete from the driveway hauled away. Footing was barely below grade along one side, so again, good riddance. Here’s what we have now.  Not much to look at, really. But, it’s progress and I’m excited as hell we’re getting somewhere. Had planned to dig for the forms tomorrow, but latest forecast is calling for up to 2in. of goddamned rain over the next two days, so likely looking at another week delay.
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Feb 28, 2018 04:05
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Diggin, diggin, diggin, yeah yeah. Diggin every day  Got to keep on diggin, yeah  Progress this week meant the trenches were dug, forms passed inspection, and footings poured. Just finished about an hour ago. Those are 10" thickness, 18" wide, 48" down. There's a bit of standing water in one corner of the trench, but I guess this is ok, because they went ahead and poured anyway . The existing driveway is poured concrete from the street all the back, so I had some concern that a loaded concrete truck would cause some cracking of the slab, but that dude made it in and out without any apparent problems, so hopefully we'll be ok. Still planning to load the trucks light when time comes to pour the walls, just to be safe. Forms can come off tomorrow, then plan to form the walls by the start of next week. Those forms will need to pass inspection, then walls poured. After that, another day to set, then remove forms, backfill, pour the floor slab with two piers for center posts, then re-pour the surrounding bits of driveway. Backfill is going to involve hauling in several loads of good soil and then gravel to form the base for the floor slab, which will then need to be compacted. So, still have at least a solid week of work before any above-foundation structural work can be started. Which, I'm sure weather will stretch out a bit longer. And, I'll still have to get all the timbers on site, which are still in storage a few miles away. Quite a bit still yet to do before framing starts. Hopefully soon, I'll be able to get some time in the shop to get working on the windows, doors, and their frames, too. Not mandatory those are finished before framing starts, but it would be nice to get those finished early. Oh, and what's the deal with contractors leaving poo poo all over the place? I mean, the concrete guys were only here for a few hours, but the trench is scattered with plastic bottles, wrappers, and chew tins. WTF dudes? Would it be too passive-aggressive to leave a trash can out there?
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Mar 8, 2018 21:00
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Mister Dog posted:
Gifts for future archaeologists. You disturb dirt, leave offerings for the earth gods. jailbait#3 fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Mar 8, 2018 |
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Mar 8, 2018 23:20
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Nah man you hit it on the head. I’ve worked construction. If there’s a trash can most people will use it. Not all but most. If it stays that way I’d ask the boss on site to have no garbage. I’ve been on plenty of sites where that was the situation. It didn’t stop all the garbage but some people are just pigs. Some people (like me) wouldn’t dare drop a cigarette butt on the ground anywhere in public.
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Mar 9, 2018 04:07
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I harp on it if it's excessive. I thought that it was an unspoken thing to not dump trash everywhere but not so much. If the contractor/company doesn't mention 'clean up job site everyday' in their material I'll ask for it.
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Mar 14, 2018 16:00
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Sorry dudes, was out of town for the past week, so unable to keep up the updates. Things still got done, tho. And, I have pics to prove it! Forms up  Poured  And forms stripped  Remember, I was a bit worried about what the weight of loaded concrete trucks might do to my driveway. Fortunately, it held up just fine. A few oil spots, but those will powerwash when this is all done. The adjacent sidewalk, however, took a bit of cracking.  I'll have to mention this to the city, and maybe fix it, if required. Ah well, cost of doing business, I guess. It's really not that bad, IMO. Some of the nearby trees have done far worse. There is a sewer line that runs from the back of the house to a main that runs along my rear property line. This was really bothering me, since I knew it was old, probably clay tile, and the dig was alarmingly close to where it actually runs. So, I called out a plumber to run a camera inspection. Confirmed that the line was indeed clay tile. There was no direct damage visible, but we weren't able to run the whole thing because there was a damned septic tank in the way. This was an unpleasant surprise. If this is original to the house, and it probably is, it's 125 years old. God knows when the last it's been serviced. Worse than that, it's not exactly certain where this lies. Here is a look at the rear of the house:  That newer-looking bump-out started out as a three-season porch, originally built in the 60's, then enclosed and conditioned in the late 80's. It sits on a slab, measures about 18 feet x 21. By sounding out where the camera was during the inspection, best guess is that it lies in this area.  I say best guess, because I'm really not sure. As far as I knew, we had a direct connection to the city sewer, and there is no access panel or any other secondary clues. In the worst-case, it may lie at least partially under the slab. This whole thing is a ticking time-bomb and needs to be replaced, lock, stock, and barrel. I already have a quote to replace the line and bypass the tank (coming in at just over 15 grand, oof). The tank will need to be addressed as well. At the very least, emptied and filled with something proper. If it is indeed under the slab...I'm not even sure but I imagine would require some sort of bracing to keep the back of the house from collapsing during the process. This whole thing is a lovely diversion (pun intended), but best I find out about it now before I have a poo poo lake in the back yard or basement. Stay tuned on this. Anyway, work must go on! Tomorrow, the excavator is returning to backfill, then concrete guys here on Thursday to pour the floor. By the weekend, I'll have a surface I can at least walk on and I can start framing. The whole sewer diversion is going to happen concurrently. Plan is to dig an access in the basement floor, bore thru to connect to a second hole at the back of the property and tie-in to the city line. This shouldn't interrupt garage work significantly. The backyard in a wreck right now anyway, so what's a few more holes?
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Mar 20, 2018 20:47
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$15k to dig a trench, drat! So does the plumber suspect you have no connection to city sewer at all, or just no idea at this point?
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Mar 21, 2018 00:28
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My coworker has a similar setup, he knows there is an old septic system on his lot that has been bypassed and asked his plumber friend to see if he can tell the condition of the bypass and his friend refused because of just this situation. Once you know what's going on you have to disclaim it, and it's a house he's not planning on staying in so he'd like to avoid a $15k repair bill.
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Mar 21, 2018 20:04
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dreesemonkey posted:My coworker has a similar setup, he knows there is an old septic system on his lot that has been bypassed and asked his plumber friend to see if he can tell the condition of the bypass and his friend refused because of just this situation. Once you know what's going on you have to disclaim it, and it's a house he's not planning on staying in so he'd like to avoid a $15k repair bill. Same reason why even if you strongly suspect there is asbestos in your insulation/popcorn ceiling/dryer vents, you never ever get it checked by a professional, because then you know it's there and have to remediate it if you plan to sell.
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Mar 21, 2018 23:23
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:Same reason why even if you strongly suspect there is asbestos in your insulation/popcorn ceiling/dryer vents, you never ever get it checked by a professional, because then you know it's there and have to remediate it if you plan to sell. Does home insurance not cover remediation?
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Mar 22, 2018 15:25
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tangy yet delightful posted:Does home insurance not cover remediation? Depends entirely on your insurance. A lot of people don't want to eat the 1 or 2% deductible on the value of the home to get it remediated, since I guarantee any decent remediation firm will charge like $10,000, and it may require the carpet to be torn out and possibly the walls also repainted. You're basically gutting the inside of the home if they need to take the popcorn down, and god help you if they think it got into the insulation in the walls. Vs. painting the popcorn to encapsulate it most of the way and leaving it there for the next poor bastard.
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Mar 22, 2018 18:00
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angryrobots posted:$15k to dig a trench, drat! So does the plumber suspect you have no connection to city sewer at all, or just no idea at this point? I know, right? To be fair, it would be a bit more complicated than just digging a trench and sticking a pipe in it. We’ll have to cut into the basement floor, bore under the foundation, etc. Even still, I have little knowledge of plumbing, so have no idea if I’m being taken to the cleaners on this. Concrete guys are out right now finishing off the slab. I’ll be out tomorrow starting on the sill, will get some pics then. Mister Dog fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Mar 23, 2018 |
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Mar 23, 2018 18:44
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Awoke to the sound of hammering, found my old man outside getting to work on setting the sill.  Most unfortunately, he didn’t realize each of those ties needed a notch to allow for the 1/8 in of width. You can see how they ended up splayed out way too wide. So, those had to be chopped in situ.   Which was not ideal, but worked ok. Didn’t take long to get it all set. There was about an 1/8 bow in the front wall, but otherwise the foundation was square and true. Well done concrete guys!  As you can see, floor is in too, which looks quite nice and glassy-smooth when clean (it’s not). Going to shuttle the timbers from the storage yard to the site tomorrow, then probably raise the first bent by the end of the day. Not much to do today but police the site.   Ground offerings
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Mar 25, 2018 18:27
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Mister Dog posted:Most unfortunately, he didn’t realize each of those ties needed a notch to allow for the 1/8 in of width. You can see how they ended up splayed out way too wide. So, those had to be chopped in situ. Nah, they would hammer them in if needed. They usually come splayed out a bit so they stack better and it doesn't affect their ability to be hold-downs. The most common truss strap I specify is hammered in place around the truss and top plate. They literally smack the crap out of it until it wraps the truss and then nail/screw it to the truss.
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Mar 26, 2018 18:08
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xwing posted:Nah, they would hammer them in if needed. They usually come splayed out a bit so they stack better and it doesn't affect their ability to be hold-downs. The most common truss strap I specify is hammered in place around the truss and top plate. They literally smack the crap out of it until it wraps the truss and then nail/screw it to the truss. I thought as much, after the fact. They are all eventually covered with sheathing anyway, which could be similarly whacked until flat. Got a bit of work done today  A little bit of a later start than I had hoped, since the concrete guys appeared and took over the site to fill in the last little bit of driveway. It's alright, tho, and nice the have all the concrete work officially done. Laid the rest of the sill and raised all the posts. Ended up taking down two up front, since there was no easy way to brace them. Had to stop there, because the next step is to lift the 22 foot 8x10's tie beams in place and they are [b]heavy[b/] af. If all goes by plan, should have a lift here on Wednesday and can proceed. Nothing but rain in the forecast for tomorrow, so probably wasn't getting any work done anyway. Had help from my Dad today, which was nice. He's a very experienced carpenter, but this is the first timber frame he's ever raised. Stick frame instincts must die hard, because I had to keep reminding him that, no, not everything needed to be nailed. And yet  Goddamned toenails everywhere.
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Mar 27, 2018 03:04
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Sorry if this is posted further up but is that a pre-made kit? Since those beams are morticed
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Mar 28, 2018 16:11
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Super 3 posted:Sorry if this is posted further up but is that a pre-made kit? Since those beams are morticed Sure is! The amount of mallet and chisel work I’ve had to do so far has been minimal. It’s going together really quickly, too.
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Mar 28, 2018 16:21
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Lot of work this past week without much time for posting. So, let's get up to speed! Got all of the heavy beams in place (the ones too heavy for two dudes to handle) with a little help from this guy  Beep beep! Things went p fast some lifting help. Here's how far we got:  Sorry about the poo poo image quality. It was almost dark by that point. I didn't have a lot of time for progress pics, so I'll cover some basic timber frame anatomy and walk thru it. Here's an example of a very simple frame:  There can be some variability in the joinery used. Most all of mine were pegged mortise and tenons. There are few lap joints, dadoes, and fewer housed tenons. The principle weight-bearing member of a timber frame is called a bent. Traditionally, a frame was raised a bent at a time, with each being assembled on the ground, then tilted upright with team of mules or Amish or whatever. Each bent would be raised in sequence, tying each to the previous with beam called a girt, repeating as necessary depending on how many bents the building had. I my case, I have four of them, running front to back, defining the outside walls and the three bays. We assembled a little differently. Assembling on the ground would have been fine, but I was not assured I had the lifting power to get them upright without ruining something. So, we first set the posts upright, then attached the braces to the posts, then lifted and set the tie beams in place. We screwed up royal on the first bent, forgetting to place the braces before setting the tie beam. Even had the pegs driven before we realized our mistake. So, we had to drive every one of the pegs back out, lift the tie beam, attach the braces, re-set the tie beam, the drive the pegs. It set us back about an hour, but figured it out in the end and did not make that mistake again. The girts in my case include both a top plate and a wall plate. We placed the top plate first, which sits in a mortise and tenon, then slid the wall plate into its dado. This was a little tricky to get the braces the sit properly, since all the joints have to sort of seat all at the same time. In the photo above, you may have noticed a few are still missing. For those, I had to shave a bit off the tenon, then go back and try again. Eventually, we got em all.  Aww yiss so many pegged tenons. So as of now, all the ground level framing is done. Next steps are to fill in the nailers and purlins, lay the second floor decking. After that, will start to raise the rafters. I'll get some better photos in the morning. It's quite dark now.
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Apr 2, 2018 03:49
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I dont know why seeing all those pegged tenons makes me happy.
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Apr 2, 2018 19:14
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This is looking really amazing. Is there a cost premium over stick construction?
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Apr 2, 2018 19:35
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Super 3 posted:I dont know why seeing all those pegged tenons makes me happy. AGREED LETS HAVE SOME MORE  Got all the nailers and purlins on, as well as the studs and headers that frame the door openings. Looks more like a garage now instead of a huge pergola.  Also finished the loft decking, which means I have a ceiling too.  Really starting to look good now. With rain in the forecast (again), I put a coat of Thompson's water-seal on the decking above. Weather turned faster than I expected and we only had afternoon highs in the 40s instead of the forecast 50s and now rain coming overnight instead of late tomorrow. So, that water seal is going to have no chance to dry  .
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Apr 3, 2018 02:16
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Magnus Praeda posted:This is looking really amazing. Is there a cost premium over stick construction? Short answer, yes. But, there's hope. I won't be able to tally all the hours in until this is actually done, but so far this has gone up far faster than a similar stick frame would have. So, if I were paying someone to put this up for me, there would probably be significant savings on labor costs. Plus, the end result is sooo much better. I mean,  vs.  No contest
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Apr 3, 2018 02:32
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