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Baron Porkface posted:To clarify, is Obamacare evil by this threads exacting standards? *some posters lay reasonable critiques about Obamacare* Baron Porkface posted:You aren’t just critiquing ACA you are calling it’s supporters evil. You were very open minded and willing to engage, and not just out from the get go to paint anyone who opposes you as crazy.
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Feb 15, 2018 06:04
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Baron Porkface posted:So the Republican congress is going to pass prescription imports any day now right? You really need to get over your 5 year old view of the world. You think because the Republicans are Bad Guys that the Democrats must be Good Guys.
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Feb 15, 2018 06:23
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:On many issues they are the good guys and you should vote for them with no hesitation until whatever full communism now party you support actually succeeds at being a realistic contender in any race anywhere. You realize that under this logic, a "full communism now party" (nice strawman of my position, btw) would never ever come to pass because we're forced to keep voting for the "good guys" as they become worse and worse at actually doing good things. I voted D in 2016, I'm going to probably vote D for my entire life, would y'all stop acting like yelling at individual people for not blowing the Dems enough actually accomplishes anything when it comes to an entire country's votes? You're literally just mad when the Dems get criticized, rightly or wrongly. It's terribly sad. ETA: I voted for Patrick Motherfucking Murphy, don't you dare give me poo poo about waiting for full communism now. WampaLord fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Feb 15, 2018 |
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Feb 15, 2018 06:55
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Expanding medicare, public options, that is literally how you get universal healthcare. Sorry, what public option?
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Feb 16, 2018 05:32
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:The one that she devil, mother of all sins hellery Democrat Clinton ran on providing.  I VOTED FOR HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON I honestly don't know why you think yelling at me will change anything. Seriously, are you operating in some alternate universe where she won, pushed out a public option, and then I was still bitching about it not being enough? Because WE DON'T LIVE IN THAT WORLD!
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Feb 16, 2018 06:05
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Poor Illuminati, they spent all that money and they couldn’t even keep universal health care and public option out of their party platform. At least they got to include “actually we just included that as a joke” in letters only this guy can see with is true and unwavering power of faith that democrats are bad. The next step is you declaring that we already have a public option.
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Feb 16, 2018 06:47
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:The next step is you declaring we had universal health care until Hillary Clinton took it away by running on providing a public option Dude, you're too far gone to talk to anymore. I asked "what public option?" to try to make you realize that Obama failed in his promise to deliver one, but just like Charlie Brown and the football, you thought that Hillary would manage to deliver. But why are we relitigating the primary anyway? 2016 is over, let's focus on the future, how are you gonna get the country to vote for Dems? By yelling at them and throwing out anyone who dares criticize The Party as a conservative traitor?
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Feb 16, 2018 17:10
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Fake leftists are the guy in the trump thread posting "If kids are going to die like this, it should be his kids. Let him feel that pain. Let that be his medicine." because they found out of the the florida kid's has a dad who might be republican. So go yell at him! What the gently caress is this post? "I've created a boogy boogy bad guy in my head called 'fake leftists' and boy I'm sure loving mad at them!"
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Feb 16, 2018 18:00
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I literally said that is the good sort of criticism and the guy going single payer or nothing is the bad and dumb kind that hurts people. So you agree with Willa?
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Feb 16, 2018 20:33
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Yes? If you think I don't you haven't understood any of what I've said. Okay, well Willa is a "fake leftist" according to you because she criticizes the Democratic party, so you're either a "fake leftist" yourself or you need to realize that your stupid view of criticism is wildly off base.
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Feb 16, 2018 20:47
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:criticized it with a coherent factually correct list of reasons. Not a bunch of weird conspiracy theories and attacks. I would bet she even is a democrat and votes in primaries! God, you're so loving dense.
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Feb 16, 2018 21:42
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:The democrats are coming from inside your house And you'll go through life, happily content to yell at people who demand better things out of life, so assured in your rightness in the truth that the Democrats are the Good Guys and better things aren't possible. The very model of a modern major Democrat. VitalSigns posted:So do you agree with Willa Rogers' criticisms of the Democratic Party, or not. "I only agree with smart criticisms, but don't actually agree with the logical conclusions of those criticisms"
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Feb 16, 2018 21:46
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:You saying you aren’t a Democrat and don’t vote democratic and don’t participate in primaries? Or are you saying you are a democrat but somehow secretly you winked when you signed up so it doesn’t quite count? I'm a registered Democrat, I voted for Democrats in 2016. Ironically, I did not participate in the primary because at the time I was perfectly happy with either Hillary or Bernie winning. Am I allowed to criticize the Dems for being bad or have I failed to meet your purity test? More importantly, do you actually agree with Willa's points or are you just saying "this is good criticism" as a way of not actually dealing with her argument you spineless gently caress?
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Feb 16, 2018 22:23
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:12 dollars would literally be the highest national minimum wage of any country on earth except australia or luxembourg. WE ARE THE RICHEST COUNTRY ON EARTH
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Feb 19, 2018 03:41
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:This idea that we need to let republicans just win forever and ever Who is saying this other than you, you loving idiot? The solution isn't "let republicans win forever and ever" it's "make the Dems into an actual good party that can win elections"
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Feb 20, 2018 21:37
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:They hold elections, one side wins or the other side wins. There isn't a secret box you check that makes them lock her up and bring out bernie sanders. HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU I VOTED FOR loving HILLARY You're blaming voters who did their job, why do you prefer to do that instead of admit that the Democratic party has some problems that need fixing? Why don't you go yell at the 6 million Obama voters who didn't vote for her? Oh wait you can't because people like that aren't political junkies that post on a political forum. You're yelling at the wrong loving crowd. WampaLord fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Feb 20, 2018 |
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Feb 20, 2018 21:46
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OwlFancier posted:The message should be to promise the moon and work like hell to deliver it, not pander to the center. The only people who are engaged by "more of the same, please" are people whose lives are already good.
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Feb 20, 2018 23:21
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Potato Salad posted:Never in history, people tell me never in history has a party realignment or severe shift ever happened. We're trying to do one and you're sitting here arguing with us about doing it the wrong way.
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Feb 28, 2018 00:54
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Potato Salad posted:What you're describing is centrist Dems slowly and painfully being dragged left on LGBT equality despite not being primaried out of office. You're literally describing a change that took place slowly because nobody primaried these fucks out of office. Donors are fine with LGBT rights, donors are not fine with the massive systemic changes that are needed to improve everyday people's lives. That's the difference.
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Mar 1, 2018 17:22
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VitalSigns posted:Correct, I want to see whether anyone will have the stones to be consistent with their Lesser Evilism and say they'd throw gay people to the wolves to win a short-term electoral victory. lmao at your new title, you made a centrist mad enough to spend 
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Mar 3, 2018 00:21
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Spanish Matlock posted:If you assume that polling data is accurate, you would almost have to vote for one of the two candidates who are projected to take the majority of votes, The problem here is that you assume the majority of people are rational and will come to this same logical rational conclusion that you've just posted. They are not. The people you're talking to on this board are, for the most part, rational voters who understand this, but the vast millions of "voters" in the public, the ones who don't know who their Congressperson is or what an "issue" even is, those people are not voting by your rational logic. You're yelling at the wrong crowd and the crowd you want to reach is too stupid to figure out your logic. They just want to vote for whichever candidate they like more. This is why you run charming charismatic candidates who actually can get people excited. This is called "campaigning"
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Mar 3, 2018 18:31
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Potato Salad posted:The posts about primary voting not mattering at local and state levels is absolute horseshit. It's conspiratorial horseshit. The amount of faith you have in the DNC is staggering, given their track record. Isn't it much more likely that even if we somehow elected a million socialists to the DNC that no rules would change? In fact, it's highly probable they would preemptively change the rules to prevent such an outcome from occurring. We see this time and time again when they poo poo over leftist primary challengers and put their thumbs on the scale to back lovely centrists. You have an unwavering faith in the ability of these major institutions to respond positively and I have no idea where you developed this faith. I'm specifically calling it faith because it's very similar to a religious belief, in that you have no actual evidence that proves your faith is correct. E: VVVV That's not even an argument, that's just contradiction. WampaLord fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Mar 3, 2018 |
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Mar 3, 2018 21:15
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Potato Salad posted:I was at the Ellison v Perez vote. You weren't. loving lmao.
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Mar 3, 2018 21:22
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Grimdude posted:did it to spite Hillary/Democrats (lesser of two evils voting). This isn't what lesser of two evils voting refers to. Those people are voting for the greater of two evils to own the libs. Lesser of two evils voting is "fine I'll hold my nose and vote for Hillary because she's the lesser of two evils"
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Mar 9, 2018 22:09
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OwlFancier posted:I would suggest that any change is going to require not voting for the democrats at some point.  Jaxyon posted:Or are you saying that it's literally impossible to run from the left, that all democratic elections are rigged? That dems are hyper competent? Someone tried this argument before. It's perfectly acceptable to think the dems are competent at kneecapping leftism within their own party and yet incompetent at winning elections. You can hold both views without them conflicting.
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May 1, 2018 00:12
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Jaxyon posted:You can, but it wouldn't match with reality. Dems are doing fine winning special elections in places they shouldn't and also allowing leftists to win in primaries. Except for, of course, all of the recent major news about how they're not letting leftists win primaries. There was leaked audio and everything, you might have heard about it.
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May 1, 2018 00:25
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Josef bugman posted:What happened? quote:HOYER: Levi, obviously I wanted to talk to you about this congressional race.
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May 1, 2018 00:43
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If discussing national level politics, it's basically pointless to worry about individual votes.
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May 1, 2018 00:58
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Jaxyon posted:Yeah that's lovely, so what are you going to do about it? Boy you just love defending the status quo, huh?
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May 1, 2018 19:49
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mcmagic posted:The problem is voters This is smoothbrain thinking at its finest
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May 1, 2018 20:13
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Jaxyon posted:This thread has cushioned itself from the reality that leftists are years away from being a real player in national politics because you can't get mad that Bernie didn't win and then follow like 3 progressive races and then say "gently caress it Dems are worthless I'm voting for RCP and posting on the internet" LOL it always comes back to "suck it leftists" doesn't it? "Better things aren't possible" I smugly refrain because I got mad at lefty Twitter
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May 1, 2018 20:42
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Jaxyon posted:I'm a leftist. So you're posting in this thread to tell your fellow leftists that they should just accept the lovely situation they're in? I don't think you really get what leftism is about, it's not about accepting the lovely status quo and saying "well I guess the only solution is raising a shitload of money" And before you get mad because I dare to take a contrary opinion, I voted for Hillary in Florida so don't even come at me with this "you gotta vote Dem" poo poo, I loving did my part.
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May 1, 2018 20:45
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mcmagic posted:You have to live in the real world. "You can't ask for too much change too quickly" - the White Moderate
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May 1, 2018 20:47
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Jaxyon posted:Maybe this posting is self-hatred for having had to vote Dem? OK, but kinda of performative. Maybe you're a really stupid dipshit who should re-evaluate their take on politics because getting to the point where you're blaming voters is really hosed up
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May 1, 2018 20:53
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mcmagic posted:A third party is a pipe dream that is never going to happen. It would only serve to elect more republicans anyway. The only answer is pushing the democratic party to the left. Ah yes, because as we know the Democrats and the Republicans have been the only two parties in America since 1776 Jaxyon posted:No that's literally strategic voting. If every election was "good candidate vs bad one" then there would be no need to vote strategically. Do you think individual votes actually matter?!? Jesus christ you're focusing so hard on making sure that individual goons vote correctly like that matters in the slightest. WampaLord fucked around with this message at 21:14 on May 1, 2018 |
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May 1, 2018 21:11
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mcmagic posted:Do you realize how much would need to change in american politics from where we are now for a 3rd party to be viable? Again, you make the refrain of the White Moderate. "Too much change too quickly scares me!"
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May 1, 2018 21:16
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Jaxyon posted:Why did you? I mean, they're basically exactly the same right, literally no difference in outcome right? Jesus christ you're so loving bad at arguing your point. Look, I'm not interested in your idea of "well it sucks poo poo but suck it up and keep voting for awful lovely dems because  what if the republicans win " because it leads to nothing ever being fixed. I don't know what the long term solution is, but you are nowhere near it.mcmagic posted:I'm fine with very quick changes. That just isn't the reality of what is going to happen. If you want to give up before you even start, fine with me.
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May 1, 2018 21:20
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Jaxyon posted:As Martin Luther King would have said: The closest Presidential election in recent memory (2000) was decided by several hundred votes and that was by far the closest we've ever come to that kind of scenario, do you actually think that one vote matters when talking national level politics? Do you actually think that talking to individual goons and making sure they vote right is accomplishing anything? Is that what you think the thread is for?
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May 1, 2018 21:31
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Jaxyon posted:Hahahah upon seeing Trump of all people, you decided there's no difference in the parties? Please stop with this awful strawman argument of "You think both parties are EXACTLY THE SAME?!?"
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May 1, 2018 21:33
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Jaxyon posted:Do you actually think talking to individual goons will accomplish election reform. Is that what you think this thread is for? No, unlike you I realize that posting here accomplishes literally nothing Jaxyon posted:Almost zero elections are decided by 1 vote. So uh, thanks for the lesson that it takes more than one vote to win an election, I'm sure MLK would have backed you up on the whole "personal politics doesn't matter" line of thought I guess? That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying literally individual voters DO NOT MATTER when it comes to national elections, please don't speculate any further than that fact. E: VVV Not what I'm saying, but keep up the strawmanning, makes you look very rational
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May 1, 2018 21:39
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