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joepinetree
Apr 5, 2012
You are confusing profit with revenue. Car maintenance, insurance, liability and gas costs are all on the driver on Uber.

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joepinetree
Apr 5, 2012

Instant Sunrise posted:

Hey remember how the bipartisan immigration bill that T-Kaine offered up made it so that DREAMers couldn’t be too politically outspoken? And yet everybody ignored that poison pill because “decorum” and “bipartisanship.”

The other part that gets ignored is that the second that DREAMers became a category, it became the bipartisan consensus that "gently caress all the non-DREAMers"

joepinetree
Apr 5, 2012
Remember when national democrats burned Heath Mello's career to the ground because he was about 1/2 as pro life as Lipinski is?

joepinetree
Apr 5, 2012
Immigrants rights groups are as likely or more to protest Pelosi or Schumer. To use them to defend the dnc is ridiculous.

joepinetree
Apr 5, 2012

Here's the part that is flying under the radar in how terrible this law is:

https://ncrc.org/letter-senate-section-104-s-2155-undermines-fair-lending-oversight-investment-underserved-communities/

When it passes, it will exempt 85% of all banks from having to report on their mortgage lending activities, which would make it impossible to check if lenders are discriminating against certain minority groups or communities. I mean, gee, I wonder why the banks are pushing to repeal these disclosure requirements of data they already collect. It can't be because they clearly want to go back to gouging minority and underserved populations, no sir.

joepinetree
Apr 5, 2012

Potato Salad posted:

Another place for people who get shredded in higher traffic threads to say their piece under the radar without danger of getting dunked yet again.

Ok, fine, I'm sure this time McConnell wouldn't torch the filibuster :jerkbag:

Which thread would you prefer me to repeat my post?

joepinetree
Apr 5, 2012

Potato Salad posted:

Guys, between centrism and Trump, I choose to abandon any sense of responsibility every time

Who'd have thunk that Joy Ann Reid being a shitlord is morally equivalent to ICE internment camps?

Obama made the Secure Communities program (which requires local law enforcement to report citizenship status to ICE) mandatory nationwide, when it was voluntary and only done in a little over a dozen counties before. ICE under Obama would frequently target school bus stops because detention centers made more for housing families than individuals. Aren't you from Atlanta? There was a series of protests under the Obama administration in Atlanta because ICE was putting high school students in solitary confinement back in 2016.

What is the relation to the Joy Reid fiasco? The reason most liberals don't know how absurdly bad ICE was under Obama is because establishment mouthpieces like Joy will only bring up these gross violations of human rights when it's convenient to democrats.

joepinetree
Apr 5, 2012

Potato Salad posted:

pine tree you have no idea what vulnerable communities in Atlanta actually ask people to do, do you

you throw around Obama's betrayal like it is the last word in local politics

go back to the internet

I guarantee that I have significant more contact with immigrant communities throughout the south than you do, including Atlanta. Go check what Not One More Deportation Georgia or Ice Out Fulton were saying during the Obama years, only to be completely ignored.

joepinetree
Apr 5, 2012
Don't get me wrong, none of these groups I've worked with (and I also work as a part of a group that mentors a bunch of undocumented immigrants, both DACA and non-DACA) think that Obama or the democrats are equally as bad as Trump. They all think that Trump is uniquely racist and bigoted. But for the most part their opinions of democrats range from "spineless" to "opportunists." Let me put it this way: in Durham or Mecklenburg NC or the south side of Gainesville, GA, parents were refusing to sign school permits or answer doors long before January 2017.



Edit: And to make this more explicit - the reason I mentioned Georgia specifically here is because Irwin County Detention Center has long been among the top 10 worst ICE facilities and well known for practices like throwing high school aged detainees in solitary confinement for the horrible offense of helping non-English speakers read documents.

A large part of my frustration and one of the reasons I went from full throated Hillary support in 2016 to "gently caress the democrats" now is that I've seen dozens and dozens of cases of immigrant abuse by ICE suddenly being discussed by democrats, MSNBC, etc. and there is almost never a realization that the cases they are upset about started under Obama, which leads me to be pretty certain that if a centrist wins in 2020 we will go back to ignoring that crap as democrats entrench ICE just a little bit more as a set up for an even worse Republican to come later.

joepinetree fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Apr 30, 2018

joepinetree
Apr 5, 2012

VitalSigns posted:

The centrist belief is that minorities' natural station in life is to be discriminated against, deported, mass incarcerated, used as slaves, treated without regard to human rights, etc and therefore minorities owe them endless gratitude and undying support whenever centrists magnanimously do those things only 90% as much as Republicans (or when they do it 150% as much as Republicans because the centrists say nicer things about minorities while doing it which again is more than they think minorities deserve anyway).

Yet another reminder that "sanctuary cities" are only relevant now as a matter of public policy because in the middle of Obama's 1st term he made the Secure Communities program mandatory across the entire US. Before that, a city could simply choose not to enter an agreement to cooperate with ICE.

joepinetree
Apr 5, 2012
If the point if improving people's lives, volunteering in progressive organizations, mutual aid organizations, non-electoral political organizing or for campaigns of candidates trying to push democrats to the left are infinitely better than voting, donating, or campaigning for centrist democrats.

joepinetree
Apr 5, 2012

Sanguinia posted:

Look, I understand the point you're making, I've gone out of my way to defend Colin Kaepernick for not voting in the 2016 election on these very lines. But there are things that can't be undone later on the table as the result of that election, like as many as 120 lifetime appointed federal judges over the next two years if the Senate isn't retaken or some GOP cowards aren't terrified into inaction in November, or the years of time without State, EPA or HUDD being repaired by a different president after 2020.

If the party machinery is going to fight change, that sucks. But it's a problem that can be overcome in the long term with enough work. There are things happening right now that CAN'T be overcome in the long term if they're not stopped. I'm sure that makes you roll your eyes and say that's going to coincidentally be the case forever so it's a worthless argument to you, but all you have to do is look at what the alt-right psychotics have done in just two years to cripples certain institutions and turn their voting base against others that would have been unthinkable in the past. This is not a made-up crisis to scare people out of pushing the party left for "tactical," purposes, it's a real one. And even if the Democrats are worthless, they're all we've got to avert it. Staying home is nothing short of madness.

It wasn't a "push left on the primaries but then vote democratic anyways" that got Obama to enact DACA, their first action in favor of immigrants in decades (after almost 40 years of nearly universally making GBS threads on immigrants). It was the very real threat that immigrants' rights groups would tell people to stay home in 2012 that lead to that. As a refresher:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...m=.3960b2befc49
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/173677-rep-gutierrez-arrested-outside-white-house-for-second-time

joepinetree
Apr 5, 2012
I like how the same persons who loudly proclaim that dissatisfaction with democrats is a white, privileged person type of thing are the same who had meltdowns when dreamers protested Pelosi and Schumer.

A reminder:

https://twitter.com/ErikaAndiola/status/962052816230531072

joepinetree
Apr 5, 2012
If you look at the actual data you'd see that first of all, their N is too small for several types of comparisons. You can't even see trends among Hispanic voters for that age range for insufficient observations, and for black voters the data doesn't go back to 2016, only 2017

African Americans age 18-34 since May of last year saw democratic support go from 74% to 54% and "will not vote" went from 2.4 to 13 and third party went from 2.5 to 9

http://polling.reuters.com/#poll/TM1212Y17/filters/PD1:1,SC_RACE:2,RESP_AGE:-4/dates/20170503-20180503/type/week



There's not enough to see for other specific age brackets, for for African Americans overall support for democrats is at 69%, a 20 point difference.


http://polling.reuters.com/#poll/TM1212Y17/filters/PD1:1,SC_RACE:2/dates/20170503-20180503/type/week

joepinetree
Apr 5, 2012
I don't think you can even request IRS transcripts for longer than 5 years, so you have to keep records that are not required by law and not available by request from the IRS in case you want to run for something 10 years in the future.

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joepinetree
Apr 5, 2012

Weltlich posted:

So at first I was just going to give a glib "Pfft, why should anyone expect the Democratic Party to actually behave democratically" response and leave it at that, but the idea of open primaries, ripe for abuse stuck out. It begs a question as to just how much strategic cross-party voting is going on.

Here's the states that have "open" primaries, and here's how they voted:


So that breaks down to:


So the suggestion that open primaries are bad for a "establishment" democratic candidate don't bear up. I can make two general hypotheses about this election. The first is that it wasn't republicans crossing the lines to vote for Bernie, but rather that it may have been Democrats crossing over to try and game the Republican primary on the "lol, Trump will never win in the general, pleasepleaseplease let it be Trump" rationale. Second, that Clinton voters and Trump voters aren't radically different in their ideologies, since most of the "open primaries" that Clinton won, then went on to flip to Trump in the general election.

In summation, Bernie would have won, Hail Satan.

Yes, Clinton won marginally more open primaries. But of the 14 closed primaries, Clinton won 12. So yeah, it does bear that open primaries are worse for establishment candidates.

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