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Context: Warhammer recently posted that Custodes [sic?] do/did include women, and this has caused some parts of the hobby to go full Sephiroth.quote:https://twitter.com/AngryMinis/status/1781899115103690921
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Apr 23, 2024 04:39
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Xelkelvos posted:This basically means Asmodee gets all of the debt from the restructuring while the others don't, right? Yep: https://www.wargamer.com/board-games-publisher-asmodee-900-million-debt quote:Embracer saddles Asmodee with €900 million debt, cuts it loose RIP the dried husk of Fantasy Flight Games plus a ton of other major board games under Asmodee.
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Apr 23, 2024 04:40
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Nuns with Guns posted:Yep: Love that this is not only legal, but actively incentivised by market structures.
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Apr 23, 2024 04:50
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gradenko_2000 posted:Context: Warhammer recently posted that Custodes [sic?] do/did include women, and this has caused some parts of the hobby to go full Sephiroth. This is some of the lamest bullshit I've seen in a while and yes my monitor is on.
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Apr 23, 2024 04:54
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Captain Theron posted:Love that this is not only legal, but actively incentivised by market structures. I was just thinking it's beautiful to see a real person exercising their rights as an actual person that exists.
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Apr 23, 2024 04:54
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gradenko_2000 posted:Context: Warhammer recently posted that Custodes [sic?] do/did include women, and this has caused some parts of the hobby to go full Sephiroth.
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Apr 23, 2024 04:58
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quote:This treachery was not a gate being breached, just an "Erebus" like cancer that was already there. Care not for the woke trolls, & the boot lickers as they cling to their so called "victory". Let the shareholders see, what is really going on, and make your voices heard. (7/8) This is always the best part, since a sizeable chunk of the culture war goobers here didn't play 40k in the first place, and a sizeable chunk of the remainder do but haven't bought a new model since 1990, and a sizeable chunk of the remainder of that will pledge to boycott whatever and then immediately pull out their wallet when they next release a "Black Library Presents: The Blood Blooders: Primaris ExtraDeathion" or whatever, they have basically no chance to visibly adjust any sales metric at all. So what will happen then? Quiet fadeout? Goalpost shift? I saw chuds claiming BG3 wasn't woke recently because even though everyone in it is queer as hell and it has trans characters with trans voice actors and all it "doesn't insist on it" or some poo poo, so goalpost poo poo feels likely.
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Apr 23, 2024 05:04
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That’s not even close to the funniest responses. The best one I saw last week was an entirely unironic “YOU CANT JUST CHANGE YOUR OWN FICTION LIKE THAT” 
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Apr 23, 2024 05:10
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Like it's not even a significant change. The reason given for no girl space marines has always been that they're templated off the primaches, who are all dudes. The custodes are each a custom job, no reason they can't be women, same for any thunder warriors still knocking around.
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Apr 23, 2024 05:27
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I eagerly await the meltdowns we get for full female space marines
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Apr 23, 2024 05:31
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Somebody needs to find this guy a locker and then put him in it.
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Apr 23, 2024 05:39
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Terrible Opinions posted:Like it's not even a significant change. The reason given for no girl space marines has always been that they're templated off the primaches, who are all dudes. The custodes are each a custom job, no reason they can't be women, same for any thunder warriors still knocking around. Thank you for this because I’ve been thinking this was the case since the whole thing came up but couldn’t bring myself to type out a question.
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Apr 23, 2024 06:22
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Watching them load up Asmodee with unserviceable debt like a Viking longship with a dead king in it is something else. I’m relishing my last few Arkham Horror sets. Also, Star Wars Unlimited is going to last even less time than I predicted.
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Apr 23, 2024 09:58
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I wonder what the end result will be. The individual publishers themselves will clearly not exist, but I don't really care that the box says "Z-Man" or "Prospero Hall" on the side as much as I care about the availability of the game itself. The designers can go to other existing publishers and any IP with legs will probably get picked up by someone in the fire sale. This is unlike something like No One Lives Forever which is in all sorts of licensing hell. As for other sections, BGA will probably find a home since it's a service with customers, Miniature Market has already been spun off. I'm not saying it will be good, but it's possible that board gaming might be slightly better suited to weather this disaster than video gaming.That's not why these ghouls are doing it, of course.
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Apr 23, 2024 10:16
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RIP Armada I guess?
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Apr 23, 2024 11:17
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gradenko_2000 posted:Context: Warhammer recently posted that Custodes [sic?] do/did include women, and this has caused some parts of the hobby to go full Sephiroth. if you get this mad about women being introduced to a game i think you need to be put through a Maoist struggle session this is embarrassing to the point where government intervention is needed
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Apr 23, 2024 13:11
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gradenko_2000 posted:Context: Warhammer recently posted that Custodes [sic?] do/did include women, and this has caused some parts of the hobby to go full Sephiroth. Why do these guys always write at a 7th grade level?
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Apr 23, 2024 13:31
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alg posted:Why do these guys always write at a 7th grade level? that would imply they're slightly more literate than the average american
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Apr 23, 2024 13:32
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Ominous Jazz posted:if you get this mad about women being introduced to a game i think you need to be put through a Maoist struggle session this is embarrassing to the point where government intervention is needed I guarantee you someone like this and maybe even this exact guy said the same poo poo when more femme models were introduced where they had already been established in the lore. They say that the lore change of "they've always been there" is this great crime, but of course a) lmao 40k has gone through much bigger changes over the years and 2) no it isn't who cares. These guys have been whining about whatever the SJW menace was called any given decade since before Warhammer existed. Which is to say I agree with you. alg posted:Why do these guys always write at a 7th grade level? Just mirroring the property they're mad about.
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Apr 23, 2024 13:38
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7th grade level of we're lucky.
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Apr 23, 2024 13:51
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HidaO-Win posted:Watching them load up Asmodee with unserviceable debt like a Viking longship with a dead king in it is something else. What games and series can we expect to be killed as a result of this? Wondering if there's any I need to pick up now before they are gone.
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Apr 23, 2024 14:04
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Bottom Liner posted:That’s not even close to the funniest responses. The best one I saw last week was an entirely unironic “YOU CANT JUST CHANGE YOUR OWN FICTION LIKE THAT” Surely these goobers had an even bigger meltdown when GW retconned everything about the Necrons, right? 
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Apr 23, 2024 14:20
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Comstar posted:What games and series can we expect to be killed as a result of this? You can look it up here, but its a surprisingly large amount of subsidiaries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asmodee Days of Wonder, FFG, Atomic Mass Games, Catan, Z-Man Games, Edge Entertainment are all stand outs. So Heat, Arkham Horror LCG, Star Wars Unlimited, X-Wing, Legion, Shatterpoint, Marvel Crisis Protocol, Settlers of Catan, L5R RPG, Pandemic, Love Letter, Carcassonne are all potentially in trouble. They might slide through this, but if anything is on your must play list…have a think.
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Apr 23, 2024 14:30
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gradenko_2000 posted:Context: Warhammer recently posted that Custodes [sic?] do/did include women, and this has caused some parts of the hobby to go full Sephiroth. i just want to slap this dude repeatedly across the face whilst screaming "FOR FUCKS SAKE!' at him.
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Apr 23, 2024 14:43
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gradenko_2000 posted:Context: Warhammer recently posted that Custodes [sic?] do/did include women, and this has caused some parts of the hobby to go full Sephiroth. Go outside, touch some grass.
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Apr 23, 2024 15:05
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Cessna posted:Go outside, touch some grass. What if it’s girl grass?!!
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Apr 23, 2024 15:07
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HidaO-Win posted:So Heat, Arkham Horror LCG, Star Wars Unlimited, X-Wing, Legion, Shatterpoint, Marvel Crisis Protocol, Settlers of Catan, L5R RPG, Pandemic, Love Letter, Carcassonne are all potentially in trouble. This isn't really how it typically works with board games unless intellectual property or in-house ownership of a design stands in the way. Most designers are independent, so they can typically bring it to another publisher later even if something else might prevent the original publishing (see Dune becoming Rex back in the day). The art assets are owned by the publisher, so that will change if someone else picks it up. So if you really love a specific edition such as the Days of Wonder Colosseum, that can be an inconvenience. Sometimes they work it out, like 3rd (FFG) and 4th (Wizkids) editions of Fury of Dracula (from Games Workshop) using the same art. Or they can bring out a spiritual successor, such as Heat: Pedal to the Metal being a follow up on Flamme Rouge but with Days of Wonder (under Asmodee) instead of Stronghold (now merged with Indie Boards and Cards). So, FFG's internal designs might get lost forever, but Seiji Kanai can get someone else to publish Love Letter. In fact, they already did. They were through AEG for a long while before moving to Z-Man under Asmodee. The specifics will depend on each contract, so it's impossible to say anything specifically is or isn't safe. Things like Glory To Rome or Forbidden Stars being rendered unprintable are the vast minority.
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Apr 23, 2024 15:11
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Armada was already kind of spotty on its availability after everything got rearranged so I imagine this will only make it worse. I guess I'm glad I didn't get started collecting already and was only contemplating it.
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Apr 23, 2024 16:05
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AMG's stewardship of the star wars games was very perfunctory anyway, it was the price they had to pay to make their own star wars game.
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Apr 23, 2024 16:15
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I'm assuming complex mold production stuff like the Marvel and Star Wars mini games are probably the most likely to rapidly die. Shame, they both had some pretty cool looking models.
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Apr 23, 2024 16:28
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I'm not worried about Star Wars: Unlimited getting shuttered, I'm worried about it getting enshitified. It's straight printing money and competitive events are starting to bring in players from other games. IIRC (I might be misquoting, not going to go back through a stream), it's FFG's most successful (profitable?) product (product launch?) in its history. It's the most something in FFG's history; it blew through their most "magical wonderland" starry-eyed predictions. I'm more worried it'll become like Magic. Right now it's power curve is reasonably flat against rarity, it's easy to get into. I'm worried it'll become a cash grab and just kinda lovely.
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Apr 23, 2024 17:03
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While it's definitely poo poo to see the company saddling one subsidary with all the debt, the total sales numbers suggest it can actually support that level of debt. Many financially healthy companies with 2B in revenues support 900M in financed debt. A lot depends on the details that we don't have yet. I agree that it's a good idea to grab any games you want to own that might go temporarily out of print or change publishers and therefore art assets etc. but it is IMO premature to predict the death of that company or the majority of its properties. Star wars in particular is a valuable license and I could easily see it as a top priority to retain.
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Apr 23, 2024 17:39
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Those licenses have got to be a killer. I know a bit about the Star Wars license and both WoTC and Games Workshop passed on it before it went to FFG. The terms are rather extortionate and I can't imagine that the Marvel license is much better. When the current Star Wars games die, I think it will be a while before anything new comes out since people either don't want to deal with The Mouse or the associated fuckery of having a license that 'big'. It is probably in the other CCGs thread, but wasn't someone friends with a developer on Star Wars Unlimited and they said they were front-loading the design to have like nine sets ready to go? Still think that that is upper levels knowing that there was going to be some studio closure fuckery happening, but wanted to maintain the cash flow as long as projected.
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Apr 23, 2024 17:53
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Leperflesh posted:While it's definitely poo poo to see the company saddling one subsidary with all the debt, the total sales numbers suggest it can actually support that level of debt. Many financially healthy companies with 2B in revenues support 900M in financed debt. A lot depends on the details that we don't have yet. I agree that it's a good idea to grab any games you want to own that might go temporarily out of print or change publishers and therefore art assets etc. but it is IMO premature to predict the death of that company or the majority of its properties. Yeah, without digging too far into the financials, the total debt according to that link was somewhere around paying off the debt completely from EBITDA (profits not including interest, taxes and General Accounting Bullshit) in 4-5 years. So unless Asmodee has to pay it off completely in 5 years, it'll just be a bad time for innovation and growth. It's still terrible and should probably be illegal, but I'd say it is more likely than not that Asmodee is going to survive this debt barring some major future clownery.
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Apr 23, 2024 17:54
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Robert Facepalmer posted:I know a bit about the Star Wars license and both WoTC and Games Workshop passed on it before it went to FFG. The terms are rather extortionate and I can't imagine that the Marvel license is much better. Funny, I seem to recall the same being said of the 40k license for the Universes Beyond 40k such that MTG ended up with a pittance since the terms were so excruciating, but I don't know if that was actually true. I can't find anything with a web search now so it might have been haters (like me) talking poo poo.
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Apr 23, 2024 17:58
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There are plenty of companies that carry more than a year's sales (not profits, but gross revenue) in debt, more or less permanently. Capital-intensive companies more commonly. Like manufacturing and stuff. That doesn't mean it's nothing, but the debt is financed and all the company really actually has to pay is the interest. For higher margin companies that can be trivial, for very low margin companies it can be crippling, and I expect for a game publishing company it's somewhere in between. Investors don't necessarily want profits to go just to reduce debt if the financing hit is relatively low... they want growth, and many companies grow by taking on and rolling forward debt so they can focus capital on R&D, expanding markets, acquisitions, etc. I think just as big a deal is the reorganization and what that implies. It's likely that some entire teams get just moved over and continue business as usual, but some level of disruption of reporting structures and management is likely inevitable and that will affect product lines for sure. There may actually be improvements too. Like part of the point of this is to shove debt into one company, but part of it is to create companies that can be more focused on their particular industry and that can mean more attention and focus at the executive level on specific game lines, to their benefit. Potentially. I'm not holding my breath, but it can happen. When your execs don't really understand what your little team does, you're more likely to be cut, or to be told to do things that don't make sense.
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Apr 23, 2024 18:04
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I'd rather get the $900B debt over no debt... it’ll make me hustle harder, idk... maybe I’m just built different 
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Apr 23, 2024 18:24
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Same, I'd love to be $900 billion in debt. There's no way I don't walk out of that situation with more money than I have now.
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Apr 23, 2024 18:27
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Magnetic North posted:Funny, I seem to recall the same being said of the 40k license for the Universes Beyond 40k Another 'fun' wrinkle to this that I think I saw in the Verge article is that Asmodee (and Coffee Stain) are going to be publicly traded. A bunch of debt that they may or may not be crippled with, licenses, AND shareholders do not instill me with confidence. Good luck with all that!
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Apr 23, 2024 18:27
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Dr. Video Games 0069 posted:I'd rather get the $900B debt over no debt... it’ll make me hustle harder, idk... maybe I’m just built different haha it's 900M though, not 900B Halloween Jack posted:Same, I'd love to be $900 billion in debt. There's no way I don't walk out of that situation with more money than I have now. I know this is just joking but lots of people don't really understand "how can debt be good" and the basic premise of capitalist corporations is that they have a profitable use for other people's money. If they didn't, they should close. If you do have a profitable use for money, that implies that borrowing more money lets you generate more profits. If your profit margin is higher than the interest rate, anyway. The more complicated answer is that most companies only have so much they can do with money that is within their own wheelhouse/expertise and can generate profits. Companies that have more money than they can practically invest, should return that money to the shareholders, and many do via dividends or share buybacks. Some expand into new areas by purchasing other companies. Some just sit on the money, and when they do that they are subject to criticism by their shareholders. Under this paradigm, anyway, debt is a tool for maximizing profits by taking maximal advantage of business opportunities that are expected to be profitable. It is not good to just be shoved 900M of debt you didn't incur, that's kinda bullshit how this is allowed to be done, but having done so what I am getting at is just that it's not a given that 900M in debt is crippling for a multibillion dollar company. At 8% interest that's 72M in interest annually. For a company with 2B in profits, that's 3.6% of their profits going to interest. It's not nothing, but it's also not going to radically alter the business's viability.
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Apr 23, 2024 18:59
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