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Quick question but can anyone lay out any "good" gaming companies that aren't bad for sexism and such things?
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May 23, 2018 20:00
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| # ¿ May 17, 2024 07:56 |
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Pelgrane, Evil Hat, and Level 99 come to mind. Of course, a lot of socially progressive stuff tends to come out of indie developers, and those are hard to list inclusively. There are a lot of companies I feel are "neutral" as well, not particularly good or bad, like Fantasy Flight or Pinnacle. And there are companies like Paizo or Onyx Path that can be really progressive on one game line or product and completely walk it back on another. What about Chaosium? I really really like Heroquest and I am increasingly coming to the idea that it might not be all that good.
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May 23, 2018 20:15
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Darksaber posted:I think WotC falls into the last group as well. I think they've been making really positive and good strides when it comes to the Magic side of things, but of course the DnD side is going to be a fuckin' trash fire as long as Mearls is involved, no matter how many goddamn rainbow dragons he puts on his profile. Who is Mearls?
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May 23, 2018 20:25
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What is it about this industry and an utter inability to use tact!
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May 24, 2018 17:39
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TheChirurgeon posted:The older people who grew up playing its games tended to be social outcasts that either didn't or weren't required to learn key social lessons or actively take pride in ignoring them and have a persecution complex True. As much as I admire Glorantha and Greg I do think it'd be better for all of us if everyone realised we aren't the only people playing this sort of game. Though I do like the inclusion of Queer characters like the Helerings from all the way back in the early 2000's.
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May 24, 2018 18:18
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sexpig by night posted:yea I feel bad because he really doesn't seem like he's trying to be a scumbag here, he just seems to not understand that despite the history behind it most people in 2018 (rightly) don't actually view it as a hobby and actually, ya know, see it as their job, for which they expect to be paid. This is a mess of his doing since I'd absolutely argue if anything his own past of working for free should make him MORE likely to support paying workers, but this genuinely seems to be coming from a place of ignorance over malice/greed. I hope so. Here is hoping that he realises he might be making some errors here.
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May 29, 2018 18:54
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Wasn't Guide To Glorantha Shortlisted?
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Oct 17, 2018 23:57
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I really like Critical role, do I need to stop liking it because it's not being good enough societally?
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Mar 6, 2019 18:19
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Circutron posted:I don’t think anyone is saying this so much as this is a discussion about the environment that it’s in as a whole and, as stated above, the unhealthy “feast/famine” system that tabletop gaming finds itself in. That is very fair. I do think that CR just happened to hit the "new hotness" thing at just teh right time, but I am glad it got a lot of my friends into D&D and tabletop stuff in general. It also got people to play Glorantha stuff which is darn cool to me! Arivia posted:Unless you're a full blown tankie no. There are far worse things in trad games than a good podcasting group getting a lot of funding for their new product. That is fair, I just stick to my elf games and Glorantha. Sion posted:The critical role thread in TV IV is having this exact same discussion but seem to be going in a different direction. People coming at the same problem from two very different angles - one is 'this is a tv show' and one 'this is an actual play' Hmmm, that is fair too, I wonder what the best way of viewing this sort of thing is? Serf posted:if anything, thinking too hard about the realities of making a living in the elfgames industry should lead one to rightfully becoming a communist Oh I am already there my dude, I just know I need to listen to people about what I can find cool and good and what I should only watch with like, reservations and caveats.
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Mar 6, 2019 18:34
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Holden and Morke are? Also it warms my sad old heart that nothing has come out about Greg Stafford at any point. I get to enjoy Glorantha without feeling sad!
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Apr 9, 2019 17:17
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Oh dear. Those poor folks in the stream. I hope that the person who did this stops and realises that "Oh dear, I have hurt people" matters so much more than "Oh dear, I have made myself unpopular". An apology needs to be coupled with action and change too. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 11:00 on Apr 3, 2020 |
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Apr 3, 2020 10:57
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The best/ only real apology is changed behaviour, but the truth of changed behaviour is impossible to measure immediately. I do feel that there needs to be a conversation had about what the point of "apologies" are though, but possibly not here.
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Apr 4, 2020 08:29
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No as in "what are they for". Not as in "why apologise" but to really drill down and wonder "what is the reason you are doing this thing". How can we truly make recompense/ hope to do better, what makes an apology that to one person seems sincere and to another seem false. What is the purpose of it etc. I didn't mean "don't apologise for loving up" that'd be silly, just a wider question about what apologise are built to do.
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Apr 4, 2020 09:12
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Darwinism posted:Well sure but there seems to be a pretty wide general consensus of apologies being for an honest recognition of the transgression and a reasonable plan forward. This was neither, that's why it's bad. Oh I didn't mean explicitly as regards this one, simply that this is but one of many apology conversations we keep seeing. Nessus posted:What makes that thing weird to read to me, is that it isn't clear who the gently caress he's talking to. (Probably the ever popular 'formless cloud on Twitter.') It seems to me that he should make two apologies. One to the person who he harmed (delivered in private) and another to his audience, which he seems to sort of be sidling up into the general area of without actually reaching. Instead he seems to be trying to SEO-optimize his apology, and SEO-optimization is not authentic. Thank you for this!
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Apr 4, 2020 10:50
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Going through orc discourse and it really does make me wonder how some people view the world in terms of being unable to accept that some stuff they like may have bad elements that needs working on.
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Apr 27, 2020 13:58
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Dawgstar posted:Some people have never learned it's okay to like problematic things, and have taken it so far in the other direction they need everything they like to be 'good' in a holistic sense otherwise it also says something about them. Normally the way they go to bat for these things also says something about them. It just makes me sad. What does it cost you to go "this might not be the best thing. Let's improve things". Nuns with Guns posted:I want to be generous and assume a lot of this group of people are dumb teenagers sitting too close to 4chan, but really a lot of adults who should know better don't engage with media critically enough to accept that something can have problems you recognize and still enjoy and you're primarily being critical because you know it can do better, like Dawgstar said. I suppose. I just wish that it was easier to think about without folks blowing up at you for going "perhaps thing bad".
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Apr 27, 2020 14:47
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Dawgstar posted:Everything when you've attached your ego to it, apparently. I mean I can understand it's hard to improve but it's still something folks should aim for, right? CitizenKeen posted:For me, I've been struggling with the line between "This is bad, don't use this" and "This is bad, let's make it less bad". That's fair. From a purely personal perspective I think changing "race" to "species" might be a good idea, and maybe just having stuff done via a points system? I dunno. boba fetacheese posted:"lots of people use the phrase 'nits make lice' and not just the genocidal shithead you accused me of quoting" It's seriously the dumbest defence of anything I think I have ever heard. It is almost mind blowing.
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Apr 27, 2020 16:47
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PST posted:And it's the same thing over and over again. Basic rhetorical fallacies, lowest common denominators, lack of nuance, dismissal of the points and on and on and on. It's a regularly reoccurring bingo card. There's a good reason I only discuss pretendy fun time games here and rpg.net because reddit is poo poo, twitter is for supporting minority voices and enworld is centrist both sides terrible on most things (the moderation on paizo's child abuse gives you magic powers was good, but like paizo's own forums the majority of people there were a-ok with it). I response to the bolded bit "pardon?"
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Apr 27, 2020 18:01
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Plutonis posted:This is a serious post by the way. To cover the bases, goblinoids, kobolds, gnolls, lizardfolk, minotaurs and centaurs actually do get a fair old amount of chat about them. There are elements to their backstory/ usage in the "official" lore that is no different from a huge number of human societies. The funniest one for me is the whole bit about how Hobgoblins organise a militaristic society built around warrior prowess, and is supposed to be in contrast to a freaking Feudal system. It's the spiderman pointing at spiderman meme. I started playing with 5e, but I have never even heard of the Vashar. The problem isn't that their are evil humanoid's per say, it is the idea that evil humanoids exist outside of the society that raised them. Take for instance the idea of the Duergar. If they were raised in a standard dwarf hold would there be any higher likelyhood of them being evil? Dwarves in the universe might believe differently, but it should be laid out that it is not so and is due to prejudice on the dwarves part. It's also because when you code a society of "evil spider worshipping elves that are all different to all the good elves because they are black skinned" you are... you are kind of running into things that cause people to raise an eye brow and go "pardon?" Like make a point about evil societies sure, but there needs to be at least some level of going "wait, how could this look to other folks?" Perhaps their should be a bit more critique applied to the world than "see [thing], stab [thing], profit". To go "well your only doing this because they are humanoid" seems to miss that it is just kind of good to chat about it, to have ideas that you haven't heard be heard, can be an inducement to growth. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Apr 28, 2020 |
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Apr 28, 2020 18:25
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Serf posted:every one of the species you listed has people out there who think they get a bad rap and would like to see them get the same treatment as elves and dwarves etc. i made a comment about how gnolls seem to get shafted in d&d and was surprised at how many gnoll fans there are out there. i always considered them one of the more obscure monsters but people really dig them I think it was a big thing before 5e came out that there were a lot of gnoll arguments. 5e made them specifically demon-esque creatures that erupt spontaneously from various places. I am unsure as to whether that is a good thing or not.
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Apr 28, 2020 18:41
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Serf posted:sounds pretty bad to me It's not the best. It makes gnolls not a "species" so much as "randomly occurring demon based event". At least in the books as written. Personally prefer the "just happen to be people covered in fur" approach that Spire does.
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Apr 28, 2020 18:51
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Serf posted:i don't even accept "is a demon" as a reason why the demons in the setting should be considered universal enemies neaden posted:There is no way to depict violence in a way that is meant to be fun without it being at best problematic. Pretty much this. No opponent you fight is ever going to be "okay" to fight really. Other than Nazi's. I dunno, violence, the nature of conflict and what can be "justified" are all big old questions.
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Apr 28, 2020 19:26
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Isn't WoW lore a gigantic loving clusterfuck at the moment?
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May 2, 2020 17:50
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Kurieg posted:Why yes, yes it is. It started off with time travel, then moved on to alternate universes, then telling the player that things they had previously known to be true were actually false, then actually just straight up lying to the playerbase so that their pet character can look like a puppetmaster. Admiral Joeslop posted:It's always been a mess of changes and retcons. That's a problem you run into with a 16 year old MMO, all the stuff from previous games is now dead or already been run through. Oh dear. I am glad I got out way back when Wrath of the Lich King came out. Is it just me or does blizzard really seem to be just "coasting" at the moment?
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May 2, 2020 17:56
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Gobbeldygook posted:You forgot Birthright, which was a kingdom management system attached to a w/e setting. Was it fun to play/ build kingdoms in?
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May 3, 2020 17:59
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It's just that I would really like a politics game that is both about interpersonal chats with people in power and also about commanding armies/ ruling. I need to learn how to make Reign work. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 19:09 on May 3, 2020 |
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May 3, 2020 19:02
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Nessus posted:We do not, as of yet, have the perfect warlock, rendering us immune to the rest of the jingle. Okay that made me laugh, dammit. Alongside that though DnD beyond is just kind of clunky. I much prefer things like Comp/Con from Lancer because it makes things relatively easy to understand and looks very stylish.
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May 9, 2020 12:28
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Kai Tave posted:The last time Critical Role tried playing something that wasn't D&D it was Monsterhearts and then did a pretty lovely job of it so frankly maybe it's better if they don't make actual good games look terrible through not knowing how to run them. Didn't the person who wrote the system say it wasn't too bad? Also I do think that sometimes people hate people being connected to bad people because it justifies a lot of frustration about unjust power structures, without ever questioning the structures and makes it about "personal responsibility" to do something. When people say that "Matt Mercer is the reason that Mearls is still in place" I do have to wonder if it is rational or if it is justified anger being directed at someone you didn't like anyway. Mearls is the bloke who sent stuff on to RPGpundit, right?
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May 23, 2020 20:50
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TheArchimage posted:Worse, he sent the contact info of people providing receipts that Zack was lovely, directly to Zack. And then tried to lie about how hard he went to the mat for the rapist when the Mandy post happened. Ohhh that fucker. Is Zack still employed in anything? Also, does anyone know why he did this?
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May 23, 2020 21:17
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Lemon-Lime posted:He's a trust-fund baby whose art gets showcased in mainstream art galleries. Him being a literal rapist has done absolutely nothing to stop him from finding work in his actual career. Urgh. Other than people knowing Zak S is a poo poo head, anything we can do? I know we all want to stick up for our friends, but it is always bad to do something like that. I'm just wondering about the thought processes of someone purposely doxxing someone, why would you do that, why would you believe that, etc. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 22:05 on May 23, 2020 |
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May 23, 2020 22:00
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What is so hard about just apologising and doing something to help? It's been 2 months, right, how can you not at least think something up to help out?
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Jun 8, 2020 22:06
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Sometimes you do something so heinous that you need to stop having a public profile, or at least stop practicing in the profession you did it in. I'm sure many of us have had annoying GMs, frustrating GMs, incompetent GMs... how many of us have had GMs who did something so horrible that the entire group of players quit and cut ties with them? I don't think he's accepted or acknowledged that even the best-case scenario for him wouldn't have involved continuing in this industry, and unfortunately he's had way too many enablers. Like, did he pay no attention during the game itself? The player had told him to his face that they weren't comfortable and the big brain response to this is apparently "do the exact opposite of what makes people comfortable". Like... how do you do that?
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Jun 8, 2020 22:20
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Nessus posted:I have actually noticed this in a few people, this sort of, overshoot thing; it is one thing to misread a signal and get like one cycle past it before you correct course or come up short. That is not good, or excusable necessarily, but it is understandable. This is usually three or four cycles of action past the point where people start throwing up flags. Oh yeah, but you notice, or try to anyway. Absurd Alhazred posted:Just absolutely gross. This is like going hard on ProJared after the details came out.
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Jun 8, 2020 22:51
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Weeks where decades happen is the subtitle of 2020.
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Jun 25, 2020 00:31
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Sorry Meinberg. What happened?
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Jul 7, 2020 10:07
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Lord_Hambrose posted:Unless Critical Role has a discord or forum with a paid moderation staff that they control as an official space for interaction they are not going to have any more control over a screaming mob of their more passionate fans than the average person totally outside the community. This is about where I am at with it. With enough people there are going to be profound poo poo heads as part of it, and you try and do your best to stop it from spreading. But you cannot fully control everything people say that is associated with you. You'd need a level of control over people that is impossible to achieve.
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Jul 7, 2020 17:07
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Meinberg posted:I really think that hiring a cultural consultant and listening to their advice could go a long way. I also think that stop playing D&D would have a massive impact. I mean, partially I think that trying to make a welcoming atmosphere for folks often leads to difficulties because of poo poo like the Geek Social Fallacies.
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Jul 7, 2020 19:37
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moths posted:Critical Role fans have passed a loyalty test with every scandal that comes up. A lot of them have doubled down after already doubling down repeatedly. This just seems like "no smoke without fire". Also, something I do notice is that when people don't like a thing they like to frame it as bad morally when the reason they don't like it is something else entirely. I don't like a whole bunch of things, but I think a big problem is that when people "death of the author" things they do not like they often try and make it a moral judgement on people who do like it. I don't particularly like Hamilton, the songs didn't really grab me, but the amount of people who try and make it a moral failing to like Hamilton is weird as hell.
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Jul 7, 2020 19:57
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moths posted:CR has been involved in a lot of fires, if I understand this phrase correctly. So the general thing is "One of the cast is a piece of poo poo and they asked him to leave", "You are a big thing and should do more" and "Corporate tie in is bad". Like the last two, defo agree on. But the weird attitude when it does look as if the people involved are trying is something I dislike. I like CR, I like the cast and find the stories simple but quite fun. I also know that, in a similar position, I can make crappy choices. It's hoping that things improve afterwards or that people can try and change a bit. Sorry, I do realise that this probably isn't the right way to explain things. I do apologise.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:35
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| # ¿ May 17, 2024 07:56 |
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moths posted:No, the recurring theme is that all I know about CR is that they've hosed something else up but their fans accept the apology so it's ok. Okay. Again, sorry.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:51
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