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I think it might have been Mike-O who originally had this idea sometime before Christmas, so thanks to you or whoever it was for the steal . Red Storm Rising might be Tom Clancy's second best story after hunt for the red october, but it's def the most Tom Clancyest. I don't know if it was the first right wing masturbatory alt-history novel, but with Tanks through the Fulda Gap, Subs through the GIUK and a zoomie weather forecaster filling some iceland chick's gap, it's the archetype of the genre AFAIC. It was written after young Tom met a guy named Larry Bond who had written the boardgame version of Harpoon and many parts of the book are based on scenarios played out by Clancy and other grognards, a good genesis for any book I'm sure you'll agree. I don't know how one let's reads a book so I presume I read the book while the rest of youse mock it. Feel free to read along with your own copy or read another TC or anything you drat well like, I ain't gonna force you to do the one book. I expect it's cheap and easy to come by on e-readers or failing that a second hand bookstore would have a copy for sure. Here's my copy, I found it while clearing 30 years of rubbish out of my parent's home this summer. Pretty sure before that it was my late granddad's, a notable world authority on books with crashing planes on the cover.  For a quick catchup, Wikipedia has a plot summary.  Correction - Wikipedia has 90% of the novel as it's plot summary. Somehow I'm not surprised. Foreword:  If he did so much, why didn't you put him on the cover, ya ungrateful bastard? Quote with suitably low reading age  ~*so profound*~ As for the rest, hopefully I'll cover two to three chapters a week until I finish or get bored with it.
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Feb 21, 2018 10:39
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Most of the rest blur together for me. I know I've read Without Remorse and the one with the blimp nuke (it was that, right? the one where they nuke Denver anyway.) I remember an isolated scene about the IRA attacking some British royal but nothing about the rest of that one. A decent set piece about the Chinese attacking Russian border defences made of bunkerized tanks that must have come from the Bear & the Dragon. There were also a book that was just a series of sub encounters and another one that involved cyberspace somehow that stand out as particularly bad. Come to think of it, I'm not sure that I've seen the movie of red october so much as just snippets of it on youtube videos. I'll have to fix that up at some point.
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Feb 27, 2018 05:07
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Well, since this thread didn't disappear into the aether like I thought it had, I guess I'd better read some chapters! The Oil refinery scene at the start isn't terrible. Update tonight, maybe.
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Feb 27, 2018 20:19
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Sounds like Without Remorse, that's the only one with hooker action, I think.
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Feb 28, 2018 00:34
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Chapter One: The Slow Fuse We start off in an Oil Refinery in Nizhnevartovsk in Western Siberia. Three Azerbaijani Islamic terrorists are infiltrating the refinery, There's Ibrahim Tolkaze, a renegade engineer, Rasul who does the messy bits and Mohammed, who's the Islamic equivalent of the guy with the Mohawk and fatigue trousers who gets beaten up in action films. His part in this book is to smash up some telephones. Anyway, they slaughter their former employers in the control room, fight off a KGB security squad and use the incoming oil to fuel a massive firestorm that destroys the refinery. The Americans are watching, of course, and a satellite flags it as a possible missile launch. There's a technojargon conversation about things satellite command have to do and they watch the fires. Chapter Two: Odd Man In An AP wire story all done up in teletype font tells us about the results of the fire, esp. the loss of 31% of oil production. First mention of a main character, Mikhail Sergetov, Petroleum Minister of the USSR. Next Sergetov thinks over his report while flying to meet the politburo. We learn all the implications of the disaster and damage to oil production. He reports and successfully deflects most of his blame onto his predecessor. Once again we hear the news on oil production is even worse, because almost half of high grade production is gone. There's four pages of discussion on the Russian energy industry which dismisses lots of ideas and show us more how important the oil loss is. The USSR will have to make sacrifices in many areas. Then about a page and a half of how out of touch the Politburo is. The rest of the politburo is referred to as chairman, defense minister, etc. instead of by name. Bob Toland is introduced at the NSA. He doesn't worry too much about Russian oil fires. The Politburo meets again, more exposition on how Russian politics works. The Defense minister wants to seize the Persian gulf. But that's not practical at the moment, so they just have to neutralize NATO first. But that's OK! The KGB has a plan! They will muddy the waters somehow and the Army can invade western Europe. Sergetov equivocates, but elder statesman Pyotr Bromkovskiy fights against the plan, letting us hear various details. Nuclear war is mentioned, but the means of avoiding it are not elaborated. The Chapter ends with another wire report; the USSR has confirmed the oil fire but claims it was caused by a technical problem. ********** As some of us have noticed, the refinery attack carries a fair bit of grim irony in the 21st century. Clancy was correct in predicting that terrorism would become more influential, but there's no sign here that he ever considered that the US might be the victim. This book was published before suicide bombing as a tactic, before Lockerbie or the original WTC bomb plot. To westerners it was mostly taking planes over to Cuba or Palestine, or the occasional hostage crisis, like winning the lottery in reverse. The oil field scene is ok, it's reasonably tight writing, but Clancy's terrorists are pretty weak. They're Muslims in an officially atheist state but they don't have any motivation, they aren't part of a larger campaign or group. Their act is hopeless as a piece of terrorism because it's not even in the public view - The Russians can claim it was an accident and no-one knows any better! Tolkaze especially is an unlikely terrorist - he's a golden boy who can thank the russians for plucking him from obscurity and making him someone, even his former workmates are described as being friendly but unknowingly condescending, hardly cause to give it all away. The Politburo stuff goes on for a long time. It's not horribly dry, but there's an awful lot of background detail that's on a tangent to the story. Perhaps Tom wanted to convince himself as well as everyone else that his non-nuclear scenario was plausible? There's an awful lot of alternate scenarios being discussed and dismissed. A bit of mild racism here too, the Politburo isn't impressed by this black-rear end Muslim (their words) who ruined their lovely refinery. For a much, much better 'Kremlin hawks gather and conspire' scene, read From Russia With Love. Prose of the day: quote:Narod, they called it, a masculine noun that was nonetheless raped in every sense: The masses, the faceless, collection of men and women who toiled every day in Moscow and throughout the nation, their thoughts hidden behind unsmiling masks. The members of the politburo told themselves that these workers and peasants did not grudge their leaders the luxuries that accompanied responsibility. After all, life in the country had improved in measurable terms. But the compact was about to be broken. What might happen then. Nicholas II had not known. These men did. Clancyfacts:
Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 13:07 on Feb 28, 2018 |
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Feb 28, 2018 12:59
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Madurai posted:Point of order: we'd seen the first of the high-profile suicide bombers by this point, in the 1983 Beirut Marine barracks bombing. Fair enough. Seems like there were quite a few throughout the Lebanese civil war and then they spread through to other places in the late '80s and the 1990s.
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Mar 1, 2018 20:20
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Wikipedia posted:The Cardinal of the Kremlin is also the title of a 1990 video game based on the novel. In a 1994 survey of wargames Computer Gaming World gave the title one-plus stars out of five, stating that it "utilized intensive bar graphs as a replacement for action and entertainment".[3] Never read it, but I'm sure Clancy handled a lesbian KGB agent sub-plot with sensitivity and respect
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Mar 2, 2018 07:49
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Chapter Three: Correlation Of Forces A Couple of Generals discuss the war plans. They have about 4 months to prepare. They hope political masking plans will allow them the element of surprise. They also decide to take action to improve discipline. Dan McCafferty is preparing to leave on submarine USS Chicago. The visiting Mayor of Cicago was hoping to drink a toast but it's against regulations so they have coffee. The Soviet general staff goes to a sauna and where they recieve the news about the planned war. General Alekseyev wants to attack immediately to maximise the surprise. He is opposed by the powerful CINC West. The Navy moots Op Polar Glory, which will close the north atlantic and keep the US Navy away from the Barents Sea Chapter Four: Maskirovka 1 The Soviets are going to decommission some old Yankee class Ballistic Missile submarines in order to reduce the nuclear arms race. Reporters Calloway and Flynn are covering the press release. Bob Toland reads about it on the press wire service. Alekseyev discusses unit training back at Kiev. They decide to execute a few officers who have been falsifying training reports. They are responsible for seizing the oilfields after NATO is defeated, but they expect the European theatre to divert lots of their troops. Chapter Five: Sailors and Spooks Bob Toland is fishing with his father-in-law, another spook and ex naval captain. Bob has heard about the soviet officer executions and has a bad feeling about them. The Russians have a shortage of car and truck batteries. Next he's off for his naval reserve duty and meets Ed Morris, a Frigate Commander. (He has the commissioning number as his car number plate) They meet with McCafferty, who tells a story about watching a yacht crew loving through the periscope of a sub. Then he talks about russian activity that he's seen up north. Bob realizes that the battery shortage is because the subs are all having their batteries replaced. Later, Toland briefs McCaffery's admiral to get around his obstructive chain of command. Toland is put on extended active duty as Naval Intelligence staff. Chapter Six: The Watchers Toland moves in. The russians are increasing the private plots on their collective farms to improve productivity. Toland is now expecting military action by the russians. Meanwhile, General Alekseyev reviews a regimental attack exercise for the third time. The unit is ok, but it's been diverted to the european theatre command. Morris is also training on his frigate, USS Pharris. Chicago is also heading back to sea early. Chapter Seven: Initial Observations Toland briefs some officers on all his findings, the russians executed a bunch more rankers as predicted. Various intelligence agencies are now investigating. General Alekseyev's units are improving readiness. Chicago exercises tracking an oil tanker. Photos confirm the russians are replacing the batteries on their subs. Reproters Flynn and Calloway watch some Yankee Submarines being decommissioned, accompanied by a soviet captain who spouts cringe inducing rhetoric about peace. The shipyard is noticeably quiet. Chapter Eight: Further Observations NBC has an oportunity to film a russian military exercise. There's a funny little bit about russian officers arguing about the route. Toland watches the Soviet evening news at Intel HQ. Alekseyev is pleased with progress. ***** All these chapters are grouped together because they're all the same - 'The plot thickens'. As you guys have put it, pages 43-106 are just tutorial on stockbroking. It's just dribbles of information about intelligence gathering. Most of them are in the form of conversations during meetings and briefings, usually with the inner dialog of one of the main characters. Toland is kind of annoying. He's worked out all this stuff and put the US on alert because he just happens to have a father-in-law who knows vital information and just happens to be a naval reservist who just happens to have influential friends who can corroborate the case and pass it up the chain. The book doesn't mention how his wife reated to suddenly getting put on duty in Norfolk in the middle of peacetime when he lives in Maryland. Lol at Calloway the BBC correspondent grumbling about his unreliable soviet car which he wishes he could replace - with a Morris in 1986. I guess its true, but, well, a Lada for an 1500 or Marina, really? Bit of a failure of Clancy's research there. I guess an english ford would have been his best bet, but wouldn't have been exotic enough for the book. And another, more in the nature of Cold War secretivity: The foreign minister says there are twenty Yankee class subs, but according to Wikipedia, there were 34, the vast majority of which were still operational in 1986. Prose of the day: quote:'They are, Comrade. Another tank division lost to Germany. Well, he needs it more than we. I tell you, we will sweep the Arabs aside like dirt on a smooth tile floor. In truth, we always could. There are not so many of them, and if these Arabs are like the Libyans I saw three years ago - These have no mountains to hide in. This is not Afghanistan. Our mission is to conquer, not to pacify. This we can do. I estimate two weeks. The only problem I foresee is the destruction of the oil fields. They can use scorched earth as a defense just as we have, and that will be difficult for us to prevent, even with paratroops. Still and all, our objective is achievable. Our men will be ready.' Monologs and asides: Plan Zhukov 4, the winter plan for preemptive strike on NATO The capabilities and dangers of an American Carrier Groups attack against the Kola Peninsula The Russian conscript system and it's effect on readiness. Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Mar 3, 2018 |
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Mar 3, 2018 23:10
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He hasn't done much yet, just met with his friends and a brief bit to show the increase in training levels. I'm a fast reader, but not naturally very critical of what I read or watch. Having to write about it brings home just how much is written while not very much happens.
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Mar 3, 2018 23:54
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FrozenVent posted:It had a thing about the two Special Ops Killer driving a Porsche down to Italy while Jack Ryan Jr, stock broker, had to take a plane because the Porsche was a two seater. You're quite welcome to  if you want, no need to wait for me.Chapter Nine: A Final Look Hey! something of interest happens! Nah, just kidding. Bob Toland and his boss watch Eisenstein's masterpiece Alexander Nevsky on his bootleg russian satellite connection. (5 pages) In the Kremlin, some cleaning supplies are inspected and delivered. (2.5 pages) When the truck leaves, it goes to KGB headquarters. Martha Toland seduces her husband in a scene that just about fits on twitter. I would call this Tom Clancy at his worst but that's his other books. This is Tom at his most widespread, I think. Just in case you really want to beat your head against the wall, here's all you ever wanted to know about Alexander Nevsky:    And hell, if you've read this far, might as well read the rest of the KGB's cunning plan and Bob Toland getting it on:  I'm def gonna start skipping chapters. Separating the wheat from the chaff is just too painful. Just wanted to show this one as an example of how much irrelevant poo poo works it's way in here.
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Mar 5, 2018 11:32
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I was doing a compare and contrast of the F-117 and the 'F-19 Frisbee' (The secret aircraft that is the next major event in the novel), but I've come to the realization that they aren't even remotely related. Clancy must have been vaguely aware that stealth technology existed and perhaps had heard rumours of a new aircraft being developed, but the machine he invented is entirely a product of military fantasy. Unfortunately I'm off to play soldiers for the weekend so I haven't had time to write up that bit.
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Mar 9, 2018 00:23
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Ha! I looked up where this came from, and the game (F-19 Stealth Fighter) based it's plane on a model kit made by Testors. So I looked that up:  Sloping down wings, bell shaped planform, I think I know where Clancy's idea came from e: ^^^ There you have it. Cheers Madurai  My previous working theory was that he just took the F-15, and added stealth and the latest technologies from whatever he was reading.
Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Mar 9, 2018 |
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Mar 9, 2018 01:16
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Smiling Jack posted:Starting a Let's Read on Fire Lance, which was also published in 1986 and is basically the dark mirror version of Red Storm Rising. From the way you describe it, sounds like that rarest of things, a technothriller that rises above guilty pleasure. mods change my name posted:Another liberty the game took with reality is that it implies that this Osprey doesn't crash and kill everyone on board I dunno, that doesn't seem to be a stable hover attitude!
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Mar 9, 2018 01:28
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"Colonel Douglas Ellington's fingertips caressed the control stick of his F19A Ghostrider attack fighter, while his other hand rested on the side-by-side throttle controls on the left-side cockpit wall. The head-up display projected onto the windshield in front of him reported 625 knots Indicated Airspeed, a hundred and six feet of altitude, a heading of 013, and around the numbers was a holographic image of the terrain before him. The image came from a forward-looking infrared camera in the fighter's nose augmented by an invisible laser that interrogated the ground eight times per second. For peripheral vision, his oversized helmet was fitted with low-light goggles." The frisbees penetrate at low level and pop up at five different points to shoot down the soviet Mainstay early warning craft with sidewinders (Doesn't seem to have occurred to TC that stealth aircraft need to carry their loads internally). Then 100 Tornados and F-111s attack targets over the border and air-to-air fighters have a turkey shoot of russian fighters who are lost without their comand and control. Ellington's frisbee then circles the double bridges at Hohenwarthe, designating the target for a flight of F-111s that fly up the river, bomb the bridges, dispatch a bunch of SAM batteries with shrike missiles and finish up by bombing the spare bridging gear that the russians have left nearby. "By the time the last aircraft recrossed the border into West Germany, Operation Dreamland had lasted a total of twenty-seven minutes. It had been a costly mission. Two of the priceless frisbees and eleven strike aircraft had been lost. Yet it had been a success. Over two hundred Soviet all-weather fighters had been destroyed by the NATO fighters, and perhaps a hundred more by 'friendly' SAMs." So yeah. I find it all to be a bit on the nose. It's easy to get on top when you have an invisible superfighter. To keep you current with the rest: The KGB blows up part of the Kremlin and blames it on West Germany. It's not entirely convincing to Bob Toland. They send all their missile subs to the White sea to free up their attack boats. Spetznaz Commandos begin the war by raiding NATO sites (Most of the narrative focuses on one raid which is betrayed when the officer commanding is hit in a traffic accident, the successful ones merit two sentences) and this brings us to Chapter Seventeen: The Frisbees of Dreamland
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Mar 14, 2018 11:26
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4:1 RUS:US casualty ratio where the casualties do not affect the mission in any way - Take a drink Allied losses exceed US losses - Take a drink
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Mar 14, 2018 23:17
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I've been nitpicking what annoys me about this chapter, but there's one thing that stands out, and it's not an extrapolated stealth aircraft or pedantry about unlikely airstrike results. The Soviets have absolute initiative here. NATO can do nothing until the USSR performs an act of war. They dictate when the war starts and have had half a year to plan. A single codeword could instantly activate the entire soviet air force in an enormous blow. They can coordinate operations to coincide closely with the special ops that begin the war. Yet here are the Americans performing a pre-emptive strike two hours before the ground advance begins, while the Soviet AF sits on their side of the border, waiting to get shot down. If you want to write a fiction where NATO wins a conventional war against the soviet, you don't need to do this. In fact it's a bit dull to give the west the upper hand and then keep on winning. I think Clancy just couldn't bear to write about Americans losing. In all his works I can think of, the American side never suffers more than token loses. Even the Denver nuke has significantly less effect on the american way of life than the 9/11 attacks had in reality, despite a much greater loss of (largely unimportant and unremarked upon) lives. It's this assumption that the US can do no wrong that pretty much puts me squarely on the side of the soviets for this novel (less so a certain megalomaniac Russian lizard person who's been in the news lately.) In lesser pedantry about airstrikes: The lead F-111 flies up a river, snap shoots off two shrikes which both hit (luckily pre-tuned to the correct frequencies of two different types of radar), busts the bridge with laser guided bombs and comes back around to lay down a few cluster bombs on the nearby truck park. I know the F-111 can carry a lot but give that man a medal. Or stick a defense suppression flight in there to make things more plausible. It's all happening less than ten miles from where they shot down the Russian AEW plane as well, which seems like kicking a hornets nest and then sticking around but I dunno, perhaps it's a way to take advantage of the chaos in the area. If the Russians were familiar with Vietnam war experience, they would also have known that their faster SAMs would hit first, allowing them to turn off their radars and break the lock on the Shrike, thus surviving and possibly even killing the attacking aircraft. But then again it wouldn't work against the newer HARM missiles coming in to service about this time. The Frisbee's also been circling at 1000ft using a pave tack system to designate targets, which doesn't seem a recipe for survival even in a minimum radar cross section aircraft. What about IR missiles? Anyhow, we finish the chapter and we see another common Clancy writing technique: the bad guys have a consolation prize! They manage to smack down an ocean reconnaissance satellite while the space command people await permission from those pesky NORAD bureaucrats to perform evasive manoeuvres. Then we can move on and see what Op Polar Glory is all about.
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Mar 16, 2018 23:39
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Operation Polar Glory is happening. The upshot of it is this. The dastardly Russians have taken a Barge Carrier called the MV Yulius Fuchik and stuck the 234th Guards air assault regiment into it, a light mechanized force with about 1500-200 men. While in the North Atlantic, the ship is disguised to look like it's American sister ship Doctor Lykes, fooling US Orion Patrol craft Penguin 8 and continues toward Iceland.  Above: Yulius Fuchik Below: Doctor Lykes  At Keflavik AFB in Iceland, Weather Forecaster Mike Edwards is coming on duty when raid warnings come in. Two E-3s are detect bandits at about the same time; TU-16 Badgers are coming in from the North while TU-22 Backfires are coming in from the Northeast. So the battle lines are something like this: The Russians have: 1 Barge Carrier 4 Lebed Hovercraft  234th Air Assault Regiment 24 TU-16  One of my favourite aircraft ever but as dated as the General Belgrano about the same in much better TU-22  The Americans have: 18 F-15 Eagle 57th Fighter Sqn (Some on CAP) 9 P-3 Orion 3 E-3 Sentry (one on the ground) 2 Companies security forces 1 weather forecaster Everything happens in a fairly short time and looks something like this:  The Russian Bombers are dispersed to prevent effective interception. The CAP F-15s destroy a few of them before running out of missiles. The Scrambled F-15s are vectored toward the TU-22 force but fail to close to contact and instead attempt to intercept the russian missiles with limited success. The Fuchik is about 25mi south of Keflavik when the bombers launch their missiles and unloads the Hovercraft which deliver four companies to Keflavik. It then continues in toward Reykjavik. Soon Penguin 8 spots it and fires a Harpoon missile into the port side, then calls in two F-15s who strafe it with their cannon, destroying a helicopter and killing most of the bridge crew. The mortally wounded captain brings it into harbour at Reykjavik, ramming the dock and running the vessel aground since no crew are left to dock the ship.  At Keflavik Airfield, the Missiles hit and destroy most of the buildings on base. Edwards wanders around for a bit and picks up a few marines. As the Russian landing forces arrive, he decides to run to Reykjavik to report the news and the group drive away from the airfield in his volvo. Somewhere on the way he decides instead to head into the boonies instead and ditches his car in the KFC parking lot at Hafnarfjiordur. They have with them a Hammer Ace Radio and some maps. They end up at Hill 152, four km east of Hafnarfjiordur.  Hammer Ace Radio  A Hill 152 that happens to be approximately in the right place. Harfnarfjiord on the left edge of the map Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Mar 22, 2018 |
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Mar 20, 2018 10:06
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Why is that? Unstable cargo? The Soviets had also launched a Nuclear Powered, ice Breaking LASH carrier earlier in the year. Seems to have been a perpetual white elephant for them right up to the present time. BTW, I know we've got a lot of subject matter experts here, so if you're curious about any particular aspect of the book, just let me know and I'll find the relevant bits.
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Mar 20, 2018 20:37
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lol @ that guy. What happens in Red Army? Being better than Red Storm is a start, but does that mean it's any good?
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Mar 21, 2018 11:02
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Clancy seems to have named chapter 24 'Rape' simply to fit in with a bunch of chapters that begin with 'R'. 'Ripostes', 'Returns', 'Rape'. It starts complete dissonance, the first scene is just Morris makes landfall in france. Starting to really dislike this book.
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Apr 5, 2018 08:28
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Is that the realistic one written by a general? In any other circumstances 'a bit dry compared to Clancy' would be severely damning.
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Apr 10, 2018 11:25
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We're gonna continue in Iceland because it's the one with aggressively bad writing and I can't muster the slightest enthusiasm for any of the other stories for the moment. After the initial invasion, there's a raid by the USAF. Wild Weasels hit a bunch of SAM installations but a wing(?) of 18 B-52s gets smacked up bad by fighters. Edwards and his mob head north to Grafarholt, where they observe a second raid on a power station and Reykjavik airport. Then they are ordered to move 100km north to Hjammsfjiord, one of the harbours that cuts off the northwest peninsula of Iceland. A couple of days later they need food and approach a farmhouse at the head of the Hvalfjordur. As they get close, a 4x4 with 5 Russians drives up to the house, breaks in and shoots the inhabitants. quote:A hoarse male voice shouted something in Russian. The front door opened and four men came out. They conferred for a moment, then split into pairs, going left and right to side windows, where all four men stood to look inside. Then there came another scream, and it was perfectly clear what was going on. Edwards immediately takes his troops in: quote:'I think it's time to do something. Anybody disagree?' Edwards asked. Smith just nodded, interested in Edwards's change in demeanor. 'Okay, we take our time and do it right. Smith, you come with me and we go around the left. Garcia and Rodgers go around the right. Go wide and come in slow. Ten minutes. If you can take 'em alive, that's okay. If not, stick 'em. We try not to make noise. But if you gotta shoot, make Goddamned sure the first burst does it. Okay?' Tense chord: quote:'Back me up,' Edwards whispered. He set his M-16 down and drew his combat knife. He pushes on inside: quote:Edwards approached the corner - and found himself faced with a russian in the process of unbuttoning his pants. There was no time for much of anything. Sgt Smith is a Marine NCO, he calls this friday night: quote:Smith came in. He looked around the room, then at Edwards. The wimp had fangs. 'I'll check the upstairs.' Edwards helps the victim, Vigdis Agustdottir*, which, dare I say it, is handled with some sensitivity and isn't too cringeworthy until this bit: quote:His heart went out to the girl. She had china blue eyes, obscenely empty of life though even now they caught the light in a way certain to attract any man's attention. As they just had, Edwards thought. She was only an inch shorter than he, with pale, almost transparent skin. Her figure was marred by a slight bulge at the abdomen, and Mike had a good idea what that was, the rest of her figure was so perfect. And she'd just been raped by one russian, paving the way for a long night of it, Mike Edwards thought, enraged once more that this foul crime had once more touched his life. Not a fan at all of the whole how hot Vigdis is repeatedly juxtaposed with rape. With the crisis half over, Smith and Edwards behave like the second echelon of a platoon deliberate attack on the last day of a field ex: quote:[Sgt] Smith regarded his officer with something akin to affection. 'Well sir, we got us a Russian lieutenant with a wet dick. A dead sergeant. A dead private, and two live ones. The lieutenant had this, sir. Some more corny poo poo that's probably cribbed from an action movie: quote:'Gentlemen, you are charged under the uniform code of military justice with one specification of rape and two specifications of murder. These are capital crimes.' Edwards said, mainly so that he could assuage his conscience for the other two. 'Do you have anything to say in your defense? No? You are found guilty. Your sentence is death.' With his left hand, Edwards pushed the lieutenant's head back. His right hand flipped the knife into the air, reversing it; then he swung viciuosly, striking the man's larynx with the pommel. The sound was surprisingly loud in the room, and Edwards kicked him backward. So yeah. I haven't been in life or death situations of this sort and while I guess some people go to pieces and some people just keep on trucking, the big incident doesn't have the slightest effect really. We get a little bit of Edward's inner monologue, because above all, Clancy tells, not shows. But the marines and the girl? Might as well be servants. If you compare the iceland group before and after, they behave the same, the group dynamic (ha! group static more like) doesn't change. They just keep going like they don't give a drat. Eventually Edwards gets wounded and evacuated when the marines retake iceland and then the plot just peters out 100 pages from the end. *Ugh, that first name
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Apr 19, 2018 08:44
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Yeah, "Vigdis" offered absolutely nothing to the story than proving Clancy couldn't write women to save his life. Yeah, I got nothing. These characters are completely cardboard. To mock them is like stabbing a sponge.
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Apr 19, 2018 23:25
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Couldn't agree more. Anyway, if anyone has any questions about 1052 frigates, 688 class subs, etc, ask them now, cause I've had enough and aren't going to bother going any further.
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Apr 29, 2018 21:23
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Breezing through 800 pages and never having to think about it again is one thing. Having to write up the rest of it? I'd rather have Mike Edwards stab me and fall on top of me in a grotesquely sexual position. When I started I thought there'd be lots of stupid right wing nuttery and military ignorance to make fun of but the bits worth mocking are buried under pages of how to operate naval computers.
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Apr 30, 2018 00:49
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