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Hello Something Awful! It's been a little while since my last post (6 years). I've now been a member of this forum for more than 50% of my life (17+ years), so I fully expect that this will go poorly. Some personal background information: I'm 33 years old, a US citizen, born in Providence, RI, but I lived all over the United States. When I was 10, my parents sold their house and bought a pop-up camper, took me out of school, and we traveled the country for 18 months. I'm hesitant to say I've lived in 39 states, but I didn't live anywhere else at the time, so whatever you want to call that. I spent most of my adult life in Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill, North Carolina--high school, college, dropping out of college, moving back with my parents, working in retail, starting a career, working a lot on said career, etc. etc. Last July, I realized a long-term personal goal: I moved, with my wife (and kitty cat), to the European Union-- Amsterdam, specifically. We didn't move here to "find ourselves" after college or to "backpack across Europe." I have a career; my wife and I had an LLC in the US. We're adults with friends and family and a lot of possessions that we sacrificed to move to the Netherlands. I arrived with 3 checked bags and nothing else; my wife followed 6 weeks later with our Russian Blue and 2 more checked bags. Our residence cards are valid until 2023 without renewal, but my employment contract is 'Indefinite'-- and we don't intend to return to the United States. I know a lot of people talked about moving to another country before the last election in the US, but very few followed through on it--to be fair, it's harder to do than it is say. A lot harder. Want to know more? Ask. Want to know more, but don't like me? Ask my wife; we met via Something Awful, she can answer too.
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Feb 25, 2018 07:13
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What's required of an American to get such a status in those nether lands?
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Feb 25, 2018 09:46
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Did you go through DAFT?
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Feb 25, 2018 12:13
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I know that like 95% of Dutch people speak flawless English, but are you gonna learn the language?
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Feb 26, 2018 00:37
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Bardeh posted:I know that like 95% of Dutch people speak flawless English, but are you gonna learn the language? My wife and I want to become Dutch citizens, but even if it weren't required--ja! We have 1 very close Dutch friend, and she's been a big help. After 8 months, I can read at a basic level, and my wife is a lot farther along than I am. The 'g' sounds are hard though 
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Feb 26, 2018 08:32
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Original_Z posted:Did you go through DAFT? No--I'd never heard of DAFT, our LLC in the US was a small photography business. We both have 'highly skilled migrant' residency cards, sponsored by the the B.V. version of my employer in the US.
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Feb 26, 2018 08:36
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Animal-Mother posted:What's required of an American to get such a status in those nether lands? There are a lot of options: https://ind.nl//werk/werken-in-Nederland/ If you have a Dutch company sponsoring your application, the timeline is accelerated greatly--it took 3 weeks for our applications to be approved. There are different types of residency cards, ours are 'Highly Skilled Migrants' ---which requires a job contract with a salary over €37,000 a year, or a master's degree if you're working in scientific research. It comes with the really nice perk of a 30% income tax exclusion (30% of my income is un-taxed).
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Feb 26, 2018 08:41
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Dutch is silly.
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Feb 26, 2018 16:11
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Why did you choose the Netherlands, and Amsterdam specifically?
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Feb 27, 2018 13:54
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Dutch is silly. Yes it is. I like it.
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Feb 28, 2018 01:35
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Earwicker posted:Why did you choose the Netherlands, and Amsterdam specifically? Depending on who's asking, I've answered this a number of ways: Americans - Strangers or close to it I hate the weather in North Carolina and I'd like to travel Europe without spending a day on an airplane for each trip. Americans - Acquaintances I've always wanted to move to Europe, from the time i was 17 or so. My employer's EU HQ is in Amsterdam, so it was the logical choice. [Technically I work in Hoofddorp, 18km south of the city...but I live "inside the A10 ring" in Amsterdam] Americans - Very Close Friends When I was looking at universities, I wanted to apply abroad, but I had very little guidance in the college application process, and I didn't realize that I needed to start much earlier and take completely different standardized tests. In high school, I was very invested in politics, but I found that it left me feeling frustrated, helpless, upset and sometimes angry. Around this time I adopted the philosophy that if I am unhappy in a situation, I have two options: be constructive and try to change the situation for the better, or remove myself from the situation--complaining is a waste of energy. Since I began to feel that changing what I didn't like about the USA was (and still is) so far beyond the power of even an entire generation, I was obliged to try to remove myself from the situation. So I de-invested from the United States emotionally--and became a far happier person as a result--and quietly worked towards removing myself from the situation. I did a lot of research into possible candidate countries in Europe.
Based on these and other factors narrowed things down to Northern Europe-- specifically Denmark, Germany, Netherlands or Norway. Norway was my first pick, but after looking into the immigration process, I had to rule it out I never earned my BA degree because I could not fulfill the language requirements (3 levels of a single language)--and I tried. Hard. I have difficulty with auditory processing, and the time frame for learning Norwegian would make it very difficult for me. At that point, the Netherlands became my first choice. Two years ago, I started a new job. The first thing I asked the recruiter was if there was an office in Seattle (yes, but not for my department). Three months after I started, my wife and I were discussing pros and cons of buying a house. We came up with one con: realistically speaking, it would mean abandoning our aspirations for living in Europe. The next week I asked my manager if the company would ever consider an internal transfer to the Netherlands office from the US. My manager asked the director, who asked the VP, who said to ask the EMEA director--no one had ever asked that question before in the company. The answer I got back was "The company is definitely open to it, but you'll need to have worked here for 1 year first, so lets circle back to this in 6 months. So I circled back, and wheels turned, and 3 months later it looked like it was going to happen. A month after that, I had an interview that consisted of 1 question: "Can you commit to 2 years or more?" as well as the condition that the management team in NL had a call with my wife to make sure she was on-board, and that she and I visit the Netherlands first (the company paid) to make 100% sure we wanted to make the move. On our flight to Amsterdam, my wife talked to one of the stewardesses about how we were flying over to apartment hunt and how excited we were to be moving to her country. When we landed, the flight crew gave us a hand-written card with the heartfelt welcome of the entire KLM (Royal Dutch Airlines) flight crew,along with a Delft pottery Dutch house. Getting off the plane, we felt at home. Schiphol airport felt more familiar than England. Eleven days later we returned to North Carolina with a signed lease on an apartment and 3 weeks to coordinate the biggest life-event of our lives. Wow, that was long--I think the specifics on why NL ranked highest in my list of criteria is best saved for another night.
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Feb 28, 2018 02:39
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christ hoofddorp is a loving toilet, i also spend an unholy amount of time there
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Feb 28, 2018 16:16
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Are you and your wife white? If not, how has the reception been so far?
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Feb 28, 2018 18:08
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:christ hoofddorp is a loving toilet, i also spend an unholy amount of time there I rather like it, I'm having a hard time imagining what could possibly motivate such a strong negative view. I work just off the train station, so I haven't spent a lot of time in the town...I really like the wandelbos...
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Mar 1, 2018 14:50
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The Macaroni posted:Are you and your wife white? If not, how has the reception been so far? Great question! And from someone who registered in my era of Something Awful. Yes, my wife and I are white--she's 186cm and I'm 189cm. My genetic background is Germanic....(north-western Germany on the Rhine) and Italian (Tuscany), and my wife's is German/English. We've had some interactions here where a Dutch person has been confused and asked if we preferred she speak in English (I replied "That depends on if you want us to understand you "Almost everyone here has been so incredibly nice to us--the proprietors of our favorite coffee shop ask me how we're doing, how our Dutch is coming along, etc.....beautiful women smile at me on the train, or remind me that my backpack isn't zipped all the way... In the centre of the city, there have been occasions where everyone is assumed to be a tourist and sometimes the clerks are borderline rude or annoyed. That attitude has always disappeared instantly if we say that we live in Amsterdam. When we mention that we hope to become citizens to anyone, they immediately get excited and extremely friendly. I have a colleague at work who is from India originally, but he went to college in Texas, and had been working in San Jose, California until he wasn't selected in the green-card lottery 3 times. My company said they could transfer him here, and we arrived at the same time. He sounds like he's from California much more so than he sounds like he's from India--incredibly nice guy in his late 20s... Our experiences, sadly, have not been the same. He was really unhappy here at first--he told me that no one ever smiled back at him, he'd been hit by bicyclists several times and "They never even apologized" His situation was very different from ours--he didn't spend a year planning for the possibility, he had very little notice and knew nothing about the Netherlands or the culture. I suggested he read 'The Undutchables,' and let him know that the bicyclists didn't apologize to him because he was the one who should have apologized (bicyclist/pedestrian collisions are almost always the pedestrian's fault, with the exception being tourists). I've checked in with him recently, and he said he's a lot happier now (6 months later), though he still misses California. TL;DR Yes we're white, and yes, our physical appearance means we could very easily be Dutch.....and yes, I know from my colleague that this is definitely contributing to the warm reception we've experienced.
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Mar 1, 2018 15:15
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Aidan posted:I rather like it, I'm having a hard time imagining what could possibly motivate such a strong negative view. I work just off the train station, so I haven't spent a lot of time in the town...I really like the wandelbos... sweet i love bland corporate office parks and hotels as far as the eye can see. it's a cultureless void. my time in the Netherlands is mostly fly to Schiphol, go stay at a hotel in Hoofddorp, go sit in meetings all day, fly home. you don't get to do or see any of the interesting things in Amsterdam despite being relatively close. I'm Asian and Dutch, but obviously look Asian, and unless I'm doing obviously touristy stuff or staying in an Anglophone/business hotel, people will speak Dutch to me unless they overhear me speaking English to colleagues. You do have to know the culture a bit.
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Mar 1, 2018 15:24
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:sweet i love bland corporate office parks and hotels as far as the eye can see. it's a cultureless void. my time in the Netherlands is mostly fly to Schiphol, go stay at a hotel in Hoofddorp, go sit in meetings all day, fly home. you don't get to do or see any of the interesting things in Amsterdam despite being relatively close. I don't consider the office parks to be part of Hoofddorp--I can understand how you'd feel that way then. On the other hand, it's a 12 minute train ride to Lelylaan station and tram line 1, which goes up Overtoom and through centrum...sounds like a lovely work trip if 25 minutes to city-center is too far.
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Mar 1, 2018 15:41
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Aidan posted:I suggested he read 'The Undutchables,' and let him know that the bicyclists didn't apologize to him because he was the one who should have apologized (bicyclist/pedestrian collisions are almost always the pedestrian's fault, with the exception being tourists). there are definitely a few Dutch people who enjoy riding through particularly tourist-clogged streets just because it gives them an excuse to scream at random strangers and mow people down
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Mar 1, 2018 15:47
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Aidan posted:I don't consider the office parks to be part of Hoofddorp--I can understand how you'd feel that way then. sorry after ten hours in a conference room and a dinner i have no interest in doing poo poo
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Mar 1, 2018 15:47
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Earwicker posted:there are definitely a few Dutch people who enjoy riding through particularly tourist-clogged streets just because it gives them an excuse to scream at random strangers and mow people down Sounds like a healthy outlet for frustration to me. I had some issues with my apartment deposit (international wire transfers can apparently just get 'lost,' good job modern banking), and lived out of a hotel near centrum for the first 8 days. It took me less than a day after arriving before I found myself frustrated and annoyed by tourists. Countdown to British invasion....
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Mar 1, 2018 16:07
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:sorry after ten hours in a conference room and a dinner i have no interest in doing poo poo I'm not sure why you're sorry, but It sounds to me like you don't hate Hoofddorp, you hate your job. It's not Hoofddorp's fault!
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Mar 1, 2018 16:10
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Aidan posted:I'm not sure why you're sorry, but It sounds to me like you don't hate Hoofddorp, you hate your job. It's not Hoofddorp's fault! this is getting really off topic but i actually really like my job! hoofddorp just sucks! most of the other places i have to go to have interesting things right nearby! hoofddorp does not!
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Mar 1, 2018 16:13
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:this is getting really off topic but i actually really like my job! hoofddorp just sucks! most of the other places i have to go to have interesting things right nearby! hoofddorp does not! I suppose we just have different standards for either 'nearby' or 'interesting' or both Nudging it a bit closer to on topic, we really love the scale of Europe compared to the US. The entire country is within the radius of what we would consider a 'short car trip.'
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Mar 1, 2018 16:22
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I spent a week in Leiden a few months ago and spent most of my time biking to other towns and to the coast, it was really awesome how many places you could get to so easily, and like half the time on separate paths without sharing a road with cars. I like a lot of things about the country but I like sun and hot weather more so I would not consider moving there. also it seems like outside of a big city like Amsterdam it would be a lot harder for a foreigner to fit in. although I went to get a haircut in a small town and one of the barbers working in the shop was an American who was working a side job while developing some business in order to get in on the DAFT treaty
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Mar 1, 2018 16:27
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Aidan posted:Great question! And from someone who registered in my era of Something Awful. I’m also an American who moved to the Netherlands some years back. I’m not white though, but my experiences are the same as yours to be honest. Everyone speaks Dutch to me and I’ve never felt racism that I’m aware of. I’m probably one of those people that would have given your Indian friend a hard time though wrt to the bike thing or other things that I think are just common sense like why in the gently caress would you randomly stop in the middle of the sidewalk and block everyone trying to walk, or my favorite “alright lets walk/bike along with 3+ people and span the entire width of the bike path/sidewalk because obviously we are the most important people and everyone else can just go around us  .” But that’s just cause I’m a really cold and bitter person apparently and have no patience for anything.How do you feel about waiting in lines at say fast food places here? I think it’s pretty terrible and dumb. In all my time in the US McDonalds (just an example) all either have a defined single path to multiple cashiers so it’s always first come first serve, or if they didn’t then people make a single line or wait for the cashiers to call for the next person. Over here it’s a god drat mess. If there are 5 cashiers then there are 5 lines and it makes no sense because if you pick the wrong line then whelp have fun waiting and seeing some guy walk in 30 seconds ago get served because they picked the right line.
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Mar 2, 2018 09:46
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Boris Galerkin posted:How do you feel about waiting in lines at say fast food places here? I think it’s pretty terrible and dumb. In all my time in the US McDonalds (just an example) all either have a defined single path to multiple cashiers so it’s always first come first serve, or if they didn’t then people make a single line or wait for the cashiers to call for the next person. You're right though. With the way that cashiers are placed here when there's multiple, it often wouldn't even make sense to make one line for them. I'm not really sure why it's like that. Might be space thing? ie. smaller buildings so less room for more organized lines.
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Mar 2, 2018 11:52
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Boris Galerkin posted:I’m probably one of those people that would have given your Indian friend a hard time though wrt to the bike thing or other things that I think are just common sense like why in the gently caress would you randomly stop in the middle of the sidewalk and block everyone trying to walk, or my favorite “alright lets walk/bike along with 3+ people and span the entire width of the bike path/sidewalk because obviously we are the most important people and everyone else can just go around us If Dutch culture makes it acceptable to run into these people or otherwise force them out of the way, I will give serious consideration to moving there. Is it also acceptable to body check people who try to get on an elevator, train or bus before people getting off step out? Because that would seal the deal. 
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Mar 2, 2018 14:14
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colonp posted:You mean like in a supermarket? I meant at fast food places. Go into Taco Bell or kfc or Wendy’s or whatever in the US, and there is a single line everyone waits in. More cashiers = the line moves faster. Over here go into a fast food place and you’ll see 5 cashiers and a mass of people standing around in five different lines. Pick the right line and you’ll get in and get out fast. Pick the wrong line and sucks to be you. Doesn’t matter if you’ve been there a while and are technically next. You picked the wrong line so you get to wait while the group of kids that just walked in and picked the right line gets to walk up and order. Boris Galerkin fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Mar 2, 2018 |
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Mar 2, 2018 14:42
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colonp posted:I'm not really sure why it's like that. Might be space thing? ie. smaller buildings so less room for more organized lines. Even purpose built McDonalds restaurants use the same system so it is definitely not a space thing.
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Mar 2, 2018 18:02
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last time I was in NL (and several other European countries) it seemed like human cashiers in fast food chains were on the way out.
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Mar 2, 2018 19:05
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Earwicker posted:last time I was in NL (and several other European countries) it seemed like human cashiers in fast food chains were on the way out. True, and supermarkets are following. Self checkout in all Albert Heijn supermarkets now and some AH to go shops are 100% self checkout only, 1 cashier supervising 6 checkout counters.
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Mar 2, 2018 19:21
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How are you going to handle taxes? I believe America demands an income tax on top of whatever taxes you’re paying to the host country. Will you renounce American citizenship when you can?
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Mar 4, 2018 07:43
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NihilismNow posted:True, and supermarkets are following. Self checkout in all Albert Heijn supermarkets now and some AH to go shops are 100% self checkout only, 1 cashier supervising 6 checkout counters. What are you talking about? Admittedly I live outside of the Randstad, but only one AH has a self-checkout line here that is still a novelty. Regular cashiers outnumber it by a large margin. I've never seen it in other supermarkets either.
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Mar 4, 2018 12:38
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Namarrgon posted:What are you talking about? Admittedly I live outside of the Randstad, but only one AH has a self-checkout line here that is still a novelty. Regular cashiers outnumber it by a large margin. I've never seen it in other supermarkets either. I thought they had it in all stores but appearently only about 1/3, i haven't seen one without it in quite a while. Jumbo, Plus, Dirk, EMTE, COOP, Deen and Hoogvliet also have self checkout but they are a bit behind Albert Heijn in rollout. It's not like this is new or a novelty, self checkout is 10 years old now. E: OP: What is the best supermarket, and do you miss 24 hours a day 365 days a year shopping at all? NihilismNow fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Mar 4, 2018 |
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Mar 4, 2018 19:56
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Boris Galerkin posted:I’m also an American who moved to the Netherlands some years back. I’m not white though, but my experiences are the same as yours to be honest. Everyone speaks Dutch to me and I’ve never felt racism that I’m aware of. I'm curious--what part of the Netherlands? Boris Galerkin posted:I’m probably one of those people that would have given your Indian friend a hard time though wrt to the bike thing or other things that I think are just common sense like why in the gently caress would you randomly stop in the middle of the sidewalk and block everyone trying to walk, or my favorite “alright lets walk/bike along with 3+ people and span the entire width of the bike path/sidewalk because obviously we are the most important people and everyone else can just go around us He's on my team at work and I flat out told him it was his fault that he got hit--no .one gave him a hard time, they just weren't kind--I'm with you. I can't stand it when bicyclists walk their bicycles, but for some reason seem to think their bicycle retains the right-of-way it would have in the bicycle lane, but on the sidewalk. Bicyclists can and are just as oblivious to common courtesy as pedestrians, but most of the time, it's tourists (in Amsterdam at least). Boris Galerkin posted:How do you feel about waiting in lines at say fast food places here? I think it’s pretty terrible and dumb. In all my time in the US McDonalds (just an example) all either have a defined single path to multiple cashiers so it’s always first come first serve, or if they didn’t then people make a single line or wait for the cashiers to call for the next person. I've never had fast food in the Netherlands. Boris Galerkin posted:Over here it’s a god drat mess. If there are 5 cashiers then there are 5 lines and it makes no sense because if you pick the wrong line then whelp have fun waiting and seeing some guy walk in 30 seconds ago get served because they picked the right line. I've lived/traveled all over the United States, and I would say the split between the 'pick a line, roll the dice' and 'May I help the next person in line?' is about 50/50...which is my experience here too. I missed a flight with KLM because I picked the line with the guy who thought his extra baggage fee had already been paid by his boss...but that's happened to me in the US (not at an Airport) as well..
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Mar 4, 2018 23:14
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PT6A posted:If Dutch culture makes it acceptable to run into these people or otherwise force them out of the way, I will give serious consideration to moving there. Provided you make a good faith effort to avoid a collision, it is rarely a non-tourist bicyclist's fault. It's not unacceptable, but not attempting to avoid causing bodily harm to a pedestrian would be frowned upon. Swearing about 'loving tourists' is allowed and encouraged any time collision avoidance is required. Elevators are small and, at least in Amsterdam, not overly common--I've never experienced the issue you just described. Light rail has separate doors for entrance and exit. There have been multiple occasions when I've had to physically create part a sea of British tourists more than once in order to exit the train and light-rail (tram) without missing my stop. My wife has missed stops because she wasn't as assertive as I tend to be in those situations. However, I've not ever had an issue with early-boarders on any mass transit*. *[i]I've only been on a bus twice, once was for the 'experience,' and once was in Lelystaad and my wife and I were the only passengers for 11 stops.
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Mar 4, 2018 23:23
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Earwicker posted:last time I was in NL (and several other European countries) it seemed like human cashiers in fast food chains were on the way out. I have not been in a fast food establishment in the Netherlands, but I’ve looked I inside. I’ve also stopped in Switzerland and Germany on road trips. I’ve never seen a human cashier.
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Mar 4, 2018 23:26
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Namarrgon posted:What are you talking about? Admittedly I live outside of the Randstad, but only one AH has a self-checkout line here that is still a novelty. Regular cashiers outnumber it by a large margin. I've never seen it in other supermarkets either. The only self-checkout grocery store I’ve seen in Europe has been at Schiphol. I have a Dutch friend that brags about her AH being extra large and having self-scanners, but she’s in Nieuw-West and not inside the A10. There are 2 Albert Heijns within 500 meters of home, but the aisles in one are barely wide enough for a hand basket.
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Mar 4, 2018 23:30
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NihilismNow posted:I thought they had it in all stores but appearently only about 1/3, i haven't seen one without it in quite a while. Jumbo, Plus, Dirk, EMTE, COOP, Deen and Hoogvliet also have self checkout but they are a bit behind Albert Heijn in rollout. It's not like this is new or a novelty, self checkout is 10 years old now. In Amsterdam proper, I’ve never seen a self-checkout in a Jumbo, Dirk, Marqt, Ekoplaza, Spar or Albert Heijn. Before moving here, I hadn’t checked out with a cashier at a grocery store in 5+ years (literally). Best supermarket...that depends on your criteria for best. Albert Heijn is the most convenient by far. Grocery shopping here in the city seems to be targeted towards daily/every other day shopping. It’s 3 minutes out the door by foot to one, 5 to another, 10 minutes gets me to a Jumbo (definitely cheaper) or 4 different larger Albert Heijns (so big they have shopping carts!). Ekoplaza is more or less a Whole Foods, Marqt is a nicer Whole Foods—I prefer to buy meet at one of those. Dirk and Jumbo are both cheaper with much wider selections, but there aren’t 50 of them in the city like Albert Heijns. Jumbo is the only grocery store I’ve found that accepts American Express. Fun fact—-AMEX NL cards must be paid in full each month (sort of like It user to be in he US). That was fun to l arm by way of a €4400 autodraft :p.
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Mar 4, 2018 23:40
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Xun posted:How are you going to handle taxes? I believe America demands an income tax on top of whatever taxes you’re paying to the host country. Will you renounce American citizenship when you can? Fortunately, I did consulting work for an accounting firm when I was starting my career in IT, and the now-owner of the firm and I are still close. Over the years I picked up a fairly large number of tax tips by osmosis. It still took me a few hours to be certain I had the process correct—I need to file for an automatic 2 month extension (ranted since I won’t be in the country for work reasons on April 15th.) By June 15th, I’ll have been residing in the Netherlands for the required 330 of 356 days in any arbitrary 12-month period (may span multiple tax years, but the end date must be on or before the filing date. Since I was only been on the NL payroll for 5 months last year, my foreign earned income is far below the permitted foreign earned income exclusion amount of $102,800 per tax-payer). So, I will not pay any US taxes on my income here. I’ll also receive a $2000 refund—even with 10 withholding allowances, since my taxable income is only 7 month’s salary. Next year may be more complicated—barring a major devaluation of the euro vs. the dollar, I’ll exceed the excemption maximum. I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it. I would love to have Dutch citizenship, but the minimum residency length is 5 years. I would be required to renounce my Us citizenship, and would lose the “30% ruling,” which exempts 30% of my income from the 48% tax I would pay as a Dutch citizen. It would not be the best course of action financially, but we’ll cross that bridges when it’s more than 4.5 years out.
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Mar 4, 2018 23:59
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