BotM: MARCH: LINCOLN IN THE BARDO by George Saunders

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > BotM: MARCH: LINCOLN IN THE BARDO by George Saunders

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Ben Nevis posted:

And I finished this last night. Overall my favorite part was probably Lincoln's first visit and the responses from the ghosts.. I wasn't so sure of the change in Lincoln. Everyone has sorrow, therefore we need to kill these guys better, harder, faster. That struck me as a bit of a stretch, though I don't think it matters. this was a good book and I really enjoyed it.

I mean, to be fair, the opinions Lincoln has when he leaves the graveyard are the literal expressed opinions of Lincoln during the Civil War

Like, that poo poo he was thinking was all stuff he said at one point or another

# ¿ Mar 20, 2018 00:48

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 00:55

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

pleasecallmechrist posted:

I think Saunders may have gotten swept up by the "herp derp we've gotta kill these slave having bastards" conviction which is also horrendous as it neglects any acknowledgement of structures of power and never recognizes that both sides had sons dying at the instructions of leaders.

Hrm yes the poor slave owners and people who enlisted explicitly to help slave owners

# ¿ Mar 20, 2018 15:20

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

pleasecallmechrist posted:

Implying that at the highest levels of power the Civil War wasn't actually fought to consolidate Industrialist power by destroying the agricultural barons of the South.

You are a pathetically predictable idealogue.

lol

# ¿ Mar 20, 2018 16:57

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Of all the attempts to justify the "Lost Cause", protecting feudalism is certainly a new one

"Heh, well actually the Civil War was about the economic forces of modernity snuffing out a dark ages era social system that was only economically sustainable through the literal ownership of human beings"

*sees this as a bad thing*

Mel Mudkiper fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Mar 20, 2018

# ¿ Mar 20, 2018 18:32

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Franchescanado posted:

He realizes that many sons will die on both sides.
He also realizes that half of the sons are dying for the cause of owning other humans.
He also also realizes that he's not winning any popularity contests at the time, and so would rather embrace the difficult but morally right thing and fight for what he believes will be best for the country.
He also also also becomes influenced by the spirit of a black man who suffered at the hands of white people. The book slowly reveals the nature of how spirits can influence the living, and that spirits with stronger conviction/energy--whether that is love, hate or something else--have more influence on each other. He literally gains empathy for the minorities who will continue suffering if things don't change because one enters him.

Sorry you don't like it, but the book didn't pull any deus ex gotchas with the ending.

There's also the fact that the narrative core of the novel is about abandoning the burden of desire and accepting reality. Lincoln, like the spirits, lets go of the things he wished were not true, and found the will to accept the reality of his situation.

Like, there's a reason the title specifically evokes a Buddhist concept

# ¿ Mar 20, 2018 18:48

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

pleasecallmechrist posted:

Translation: y-you're right b-but s-s-so what. Herp derp slavery. Punch a nazi!

Actually my point was that even if your insane assertion was correct it was still inarguably the moral outcome

# ¿ Mar 21, 2018 19:39

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

I feel like the audiobook would be such a drastically different experience from simply reading the book that it probably should count as a separate work

# ¿ Mar 23, 2018 13:24

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

tetrapyloctomy posted:

I'm generally not a big audiobook fan, I think the structure of the book lends itself to being read aloud (especially by so many people).

I mean it strikes me a bit like Goethe's Faust in that its technically a play but a play specifically written to be read rather than performed

# ¿ Mar 23, 2018 16:21

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Jack B Nimble posted:

Yes, absolutely, the book had a hole to get out of but it flew.

How many people needed at least two or three pages before they realized the opening is not Lincoln talking about marrying Martha

# ¿ Mar 23, 2018 22:08

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Oh poo poo need suggestions for next month

how about Bob Honey Who Just Do Stuff

I will come and loving find you and children will tell each ghost stories about the horrible things that happened if you put that fucki ng book on the list

# ¿ Mar 29, 2018 13:59

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

CestMoi posted:

How about - and please hear me out here - BABYFUCKER by URS ALLEMANN

You know what, hell yeah

Put Mel down for babyfucker

# ¿ Mar 30, 2018 13:35

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

What would qqcs care?

# ¿ Mar 30, 2018 13:49

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

alright but if you end up claiming a 250 year old public domain proto-fantasy book is the accessible alternative I am gonna tell everyone in QQCS you like anime porn

EDIT: Since you want to avoid controversy might I instead recommend "Faggots" by Larry Kramer

# ¿ Mar 30, 2018 14:29

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 00:55

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

OK, The Coming Race it is, that's only like 150 years old

(don't worry I'm just kidding, even I can't manage to enjoy Bulwer-Lytton and I've tried, repeatedly)

Isnt that the dude whose main claim to fame is that he was a legendarily poo poo writer

# ¿ Mar 30, 2018 15:46

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > BotM: MARCH: LINCOLN IN THE BARDO by George Saunders