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Tree Goat
May 24, 2009

argania spinosa

CestMoi posted:

I hope you're reading him in the intended language of his poetry, Arabic

Le plus malin est de quitter ce continent, où la folie rôde pour pourvoir d'otages ces misérables. J'entre au vrai royaume des enfants de Cham.

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CestMoi
Sep 16, 2011

because of things like that in saison en enfer and les illuminations in Sufism & Surrealism by Adonis there's a chapter where he argues that Rimbaud shouldn't be considered a part of the Western poetic canon, but should instead be thought of as an Arab Sufi mystic and it's extremely cool

jagstag
Oct 26, 2015

speaking of does anyone have any recs on sufi poetry that's not the conference of birds because while it's kick rear end i already read it

jagstag
Oct 26, 2015

and not rimbaud, cestmoi

Tree Goat
May 24, 2009

argania spinosa
i'm assuming rumi is a non-starter as well

CestMoi
Sep 16, 2011

rubaiyat

CestMoi
Sep 16, 2011

if we exhaust all the ones you've obviously already read you'll be forced to read Rimbaud as a Sufi

ulvir
Jan 2, 2005

where does Le sonnet du trou du cul fit into him as a sufi

MockingQuantum
Jan 20, 2012



Hello poetry thread, I'm doing the forums reading challenge this year and I've decided to try and rekindle my former love of poetry, so to that end, I would like a wildcard poetry book for the reading challenge. It can be anything (please be gentle) as long as it's not impossible to find. I also only speak English, unfortunately.

Tree Goat
May 24, 2009

argania spinosa

MockingQuantum posted:

Hello poetry thread, I'm doing the forums reading challenge this year and I've decided to try and rekindle my former love of poetry, so to that end, I would like a wildcard poetry book for the reading challenge. It can be anything (please be gentle) as long as it's not impossible to find. I also only speak English, unfortunately.

what kinds of things do you like

MockingQuantum
Jan 20, 2012



Tree Goat posted:

what kinds of things do you like

TBH I haven't read much of anything in years. In college I liked Anne Sexton, Sara Teasdale, Lord Byron, T.S. Eliot, Kahlil Gibran, Wisława Szymborska... I was just getting into more modern poetry but couldn't tell you any names off the top of my head. I'm sure there's tons of poets I read a lot that I'm totally forgetting, such is life

Tree Goat
May 24, 2009

argania spinosa

MockingQuantum posted:

TBH I haven't read much of anything in years. In college I liked Anne Sexton, Sara Teasdale, Lord Byron, T.S. Eliot, Kahlil Gibran, Wisława Szymborska... I was just getting into more modern poetry but couldn't tell you any names off the top of my head. I'm sure there's tons of poets I read a lot that I'm totally forgetting, such is life

you might like brown's the virginia state colony for epileptics and feebleminded, that was from last year iirc and gives off sexton-y vibes

chernobyl kinsman
Mar 18, 2007

a friend of the friendly atom

Soiled Meat

Tree Goat posted:

you might like brown's the virginia state colony for epileptics and feebleminded, that was from last year iirc and gives off sexton-y vibes

its really good yeah

ulvir
Jan 2, 2005

skimmed through the collection of Ezra Pound that I bought, and am liking this a lot. I’ll post some of my favourites here once I’ve done a proper reading

MockingQuantum
Jan 20, 2012



Tree Goat posted:

you might like brown's the virginia state colony for epileptics and feebleminded, that was from last year iirc and gives off sexton-y vibes

This looks like it's right up my alley, I will definitely check it out. Thanks!

MartingaleJack
Aug 26, 2004

I'll split you open and I don't even like coconuts.
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/56022/the-fire-cycle

One of my favorites. I only like prose poetry.

chernobyl kinsman
Mar 18, 2007

a friend of the friendly atom

Soiled Meat

chernobyl kinsman posted:

prose poetry is almost universally maturbatory trash tho. the only exception I can think to make rn is poe's eureka, and then only because it's 1) insane and 2) weirdly spot on about the Big Bang somehow

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

chernobyl kinsman
Mar 18, 2007

a friend of the friendly atom

Soiled Meat

personally i prefer dril's earlier work

this broken hill
Apr 10, 2018

by Lowtax
2016, perfectly encapsulated

magnavox space odyssey
Jan 22, 2016
Finished some sort of book on European lyricism and really liked the moderns. Especially Federico Garcia Lorca's Romance Sonambulo (this is a random translation off the internet... my copy's in Slovenian :sweatdrop:). But I can't stop thinking about the opening and closing lines.

Spanish Poem Guy posted:

Green, how I want you green.
Green wind. Green branches.
The ship out on the sea
and the horse on the mountain.
With the shade around her waist
she dreams on her balcony,
green flesh, her hair green,
with eyes of cold silver.
Green, how I want you green.
Under the gypsy moon,
all things are watching her
and she cannot see them.

Green, how I want you green.
Big hoarfrost stars
come with the fish of shadow
that opens the road of dawn.
The fig tree rubs its wind
with the sandpaper of its branches,
and the forest, cunning cat,
bristles its brittle fibers.
But who will come? And from where?
She is still on her balcony
green flesh, her hair green,
dreaming in the bitter sea.

—My friend, I want to trade
my horse for her house,
my saddle for her mirror,
my knife for her blanket.
My friend, I come bleeding
from the gates of Cabra.
—If it were possible, my boy,
I’d help you fix that trade.
But now I am not I,
nor is my house now my house.
—My friend, I want to die
decently in my bed.
Of iron, if that’s possible,
with blankets of fine chambray.
Don’t you see the wound I have
from my chest up to my throat?
—Your white shirt has grown
thirsty dark brown roses.
Your blood oozes and flees a
round the corners of your sash.
But now I am not I,
nor is my house now my house.
—Let me climb up, at least,
up to the high balconies;
Let me climb up! Let me,
up to the green balconies.
Railings of the moon
through which the water rumbles.

Now the two friends climb up,
up to the high balconies.
Leaving a trail of blood.
Leaving a trail of teardrops.
Tin bell vines
were trembling on the roofs.
A thousand crystal tambourines
struck at the dawn light.

Green, how I want you green,
green wind, green branches.
The two friends climbed up.
The stiff wind left
in their mouths, a strange taste
of bile, of mint, and of basil
My friend, where is she—tell me—
where is your bitter girl?
How many times she waited for you!
How many times would she wait for you,
cool face, black hair,
on this green balcony!
Over the mouth of the cistern
the gypsy girl was swinging,
green flesh, her hair green,
with eyes of cold silver.
An icicle of moon
holds her up above the water.
The night became intimate
like a little plaza.
Drunken “Guardias Civiles”
were pounding on the door.
Green, how I want you green.
Green wind. Green branches.
The ship out on the sea.
And the horse on the mountain.

this broken hill
Apr 10, 2018

by Lowtax
lorca was a sweet sad gay artisan of the human heart

CestMoi
Sep 16, 2011

Lorca's cool, I need to pick up a collection by him for sure.

I've been reading and rereading A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning by Donne for like a week straight and I'm not even all that sure why but now I'm mostly thinking of things in terms of reference to specific images in that poem so that's cool

A human heart
Oct 10, 2012

this broken hill posted:

lorca was a sweet sad gay artisan of the human heart

Actually, I never met the man

Doc Fission
Sep 11, 2011



Apparently Americans are reading more poetry! If you're American I hope you're doing your part.

I read Night Sky With Exit Wounds by Ocean Vuong and it gutted me, poetry is extremely good

Do y'all read journals? I feel as though they are so dime-a-dozen I can barely wade through them.

Mighty Crouton
Mar 12, 2006
Any James Merrill fans out there? Feel like he's the most 🔥🔥 American poet since Wallace Stevens.

http://www.ronnowpoetry.com/contents/merrill/SelfPortrait.html

Also his voice is glorious: https://www.kwls.org/key-wests-life-of-letters/james-merrill-on-elizabeth-bishop-archives/

Tree Goat
May 24, 2009

argania spinosa

Mighty Crouton posted:

Any James Merrill fans out there? Feel like he's the most 🔥🔥 American poet since Wallace Stevens.

http://www.ronnowpoetry.com/contents/merrill/SelfPortrait.html

Also his voice is glorious: https://www.kwls.org/key-wests-life-of-letters/james-merrill-on-elizabeth-bishop-archives/

i hadn't read that one but i didn't much care for it.
the one of his that i remember best is laboratory poem, but i don't think the reason i remember it is because it is his best:

Laboratory Poem posted:

Charles used to watch Naomi, taking heart
And a steel saw, open up turtles, live.
While she swore they felt nothing, he would gag
At blood, at the blind twitching, even after
The murky dawn of entrails cleared, revealing
Contours he knew, egg-yellows like lamps paling.

Well then. She carried off the beating heart
To the kymograph and rigged it there, a rag
In fitful wind, now made to strain, now stopped
By her solutions tonic or malign
Alternately in which it would be steeped.
What the heart bore, she noted on a chart,

For work did not stop only with the heart.
He thought of certain human hearts, their climb
Through violence into exquisite disciplines
Of which, as it now appeared, they all expired.
Soon she would fetch another and start over,
Easy in the presence of her lover.

right now i'm reading the english translation of concerto al quds which i thought was new but i guess has been out for years now so shows what i know

A. Questions posted:

*Why is every atom of Palestine’s ash an open wound?
*How does this wound create life with the implements of death?
*Is Palestine’s history an autumn that has migrated beyond the seasons?
*Why does the face of humanity wrinkle in the language of Arab leaders? And why is this language clogged with trains that run only on dead-end tracks that never end? And why are those tracks built by leaders who wage battles on trees and water?

E. A Hymn Bracing for the End posted:

Many gray hairs on my head,
but in my insides only the down of childhood.
Take away your alchemy, dear Poetry, raise it, discipline it, and teach it to mingle our bodies with our dreams;
how time can earn a place among our days and nights,
how minutes grunt in our veins like wild horses.
In your name, I flee myself to be myself,
and in your name I become joy and sadness in one inhale,
and I clamp my lips on your secrets.

The sky hangs like a rare painting in the earth’s museum,
and each is fighting to prove he alone stole it.
Up high, the sky’s seventh ceiling bucks and shudders, about to fall.
Why are harlots and pimps given another great role to play?
And in the name of the sky, must we awaken Job, Jeremiah, and Isaiah to display their afflictions again in al-Quds, and to confess how happy and free they once were?

Go on you way, dear Heaven.
Leave me a while to check on my limbs.

Tree Goat
May 24, 2009

argania spinosa
read more poetry you fuckers

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer
I've been reading Ooga-Booga by Frederick Seidel and it's weird and interesting.

CountFosco
Jan 9, 2012

Welcome back to the Liturgigoon thread, friend.

MockingQuantum posted:

TBH I haven't read much of anything in years. In college I liked Anne Sexton, Sara Teasdale, Lord Byron, T.S. Eliot, Kahlil Gibran, Wisława Szymborska... I was just getting into more modern poetry but couldn't tell you any names off the top of my head. I'm sure there's tons of poets I read a lot that I'm totally forgetting, such is life

I recommend Elizabeth Bishop.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer
Truly the most abhorrent reviews on Goodreads are those of poetry collections where the review is a poem.

quote:

I would've liked to've liked this book more
Than I did but it lacked a report
With me though I'll forgive it that and I'm forgiving
It, (for the hours it took hardly need reliving)
Recommended as it was by a pal and poet
Who loves the book and staked our friendship on it
Or did he? I forget but it isn't important
What's important here is that I only half-liked it

You see, I don't mean to be prudish or rudish or a boor
But I would've liked to've liked this book a bit more
Than I did and I'll tell you why, not that you care
And I'll example it as well because, well, I'm debonair

There's five or more stanzas to this thing.

Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Jul 5, 2018

CestMoi
Sep 16, 2011

Please dont post bad poetry itt theres enough of it in literally every other place on earth

CestMoi
Sep 16, 2011

Im eeading The Pound Era by hugh kenner and it owns, its great, its so good its making me write poetry again and i hate it

Bandiet
Dec 31, 2015

I'm reading Leopardi, a blind spot for me, after investigating a quote in Beckett's Molloy. His Canti are sometimes good

quote:

Little old white-haired man,
weak, half naked, barefoot,
with an enormous burden on his back,
up mountain and down valley,
over sharp rocks, across deep sands and bracken,
through wind and storm,
in hot and freezing weather,
runs on, running till he's out of breath,
crosses rivers, wades through swamps,
falls and climbs and rushes on
ever faster, no rest or relief,
battered, bloodied; till at last he comes
to where his way
and all his effort led him:
terrible, immense abyss
into which he falls, forgetting everything.
This, O virgin moon,
is human life.

This is only interesting for so long though lol. At this point I'm more interested in the Zibaldone.

OscarDiggs
Jun 1, 2011

Those sure are words on pages which are given in a sequential order!
Is this the place for questions about poetry that to most might seem pretty basic?

CestMoi
Sep 16, 2011

It is good and admirable to learn about poetry no matter how little you know or intrinsically stupid you are

OscarDiggs
Jun 1, 2011

Those sure are words on pages which are given in a sequential order!

CestMoi posted:

It is good and admirable to learn about poetry no matter how little you know or intrinsically stupid you are

Grand!

Okay. My understanding of poetry is that the thing that makes it different from just writing is that it's written in pentameter, like Shakespeare used iambic pentameter which is an unstressed syallble followed by a stressed syallble. That covers my knowledge of what a pentameter is. I don't even understand exactly what it means by stressed and unstressed.

So; the poems I have looked don't exactly advertise what pentameter they are using so if I opened a poetry book to a random page and started reading one, how would I know how it's supposed to be read? Is there a specific stylistic guide that poetry people have to study in order to learn it (in which case can I have the name of that guide), or is it a matter of knowing and practicing (in which case, may I have some recommendations for simple poems when learning how pentameter goes)?

chernobyl kinsman
Mar 18, 2007

a friend of the friendly atom

Soiled Meat
you're thinking of meter in general, not pentameter specifically. 'meter' means any pattern of stressed and unstressed syllables; the 'penta' prefix just means 5 (see also pentagram). you're right that shakespeare usually writes in iambic pentameter; his verse lines have 5 "iambs". an iamb is an unstressed syllable followed by a stressed syllable.

Stress is what word or what syllable in a word you emphasize. Here's an illustration.

Try it: say the words 'emphasis' and 'syllable' out loud. I'm betting you say something like EM-pha-sis and SYL-a-ble; that is, "em" and "syl" are stressed syllables. The humor in that clip comes from Mike Myers instead saying em-PHA-sis and syl-A-ble; he's stressing the wrong syllables.

here i've marked the stressed syllables from a line of shakespeare in bold, so you can see what i mean:

but soft! what light through yonder window breaks

try saying it out loud, and you'll get a feel for how the stresses fall ("but SOFT" instead of "BUT soft"). it comes out as something like "da-DUM da-DUM da-DUM da-DUM da-DUM". each of those unstressed-stressed combinations is one iamb.

you can also have Dactylic pentameter but there's no real need to go down that rabbit hole.

different poets will use different meters in different poems; robert frost's The Road Not Taken, for examble, still uses iambs, but uses them in tetrameter, so four iambs per line instead of five.

anyway, defining what is and isn't poetry is one of those questions, like defining what is and isn't art, that has the potential to piss a lot of people off and is simultaneously very boring. there also isn't always a clear line. Billy Collins, the former US Poet Laureate, writes in what's called free verse - verse without any meter or rhyme. you can see an example here. Bukowski also writes in free verse. sometimes you'll find people saying that the only thing that makes a poem a poem is the use of line breaks, but there's something called 'prose poetry' which doesn't even have that. Poe wrote this batshit thing that he titled "Eureka: A Prose Poem", for example, and it doesn't rhyme, stick to a meter, or use line breaks.

OscarDiggs posted:

So; the poems I have looked don't exactly advertise what pentameter they are using so if I opened a poetry book to a random page and started reading one, how would I know how it's supposed to be read?

just read it, and read it slowly. you'll find yourself falling into the rhythm of the poem naturally.

you could definitely pick up a book, like Perinne's sound and sense, that will teach you all about different kinds of meters and whatnot, but i really don't think that's necessary to understand a poem or derive enjoyment from it. you can find a lot of pleasure and meaning in Ozymandias without knowing that it's a sonnet in iambic pentameter.

chernobyl kinsman fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Sep 7, 2018

OscarDiggs
Jun 1, 2011

Those sure are words on pages which are given in a sequential order!

chernobyl kinsman posted:

Some great stuff in general.

Thank you very much for your post! I certainly needed it.

I admit I was initially a little hesitiant; I'm so shoddy in general with reading that "just read it slow" seemed a little pithy at first, but even I can see and hear the rhythm in Ozymandias, especially when I speak it aloud.

With all that helpful advice given, I'll leave this thread back to the professionals.

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chernobyl kinsman
Mar 18, 2007

a friend of the friendly atom

Soiled Meat
professional shitposters you mean

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