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Kane, Octavia and Clarke are all to blame for the carnage and the end of the world. But I would say Octavia is the most forgivable of them 3 Octavia, has the above poster said, understood that to ensure survival they need to control the valley. Which was true, even if she was wrong about everything else and did some pretty awful stuff to force the war Kane was so appalled by Octavia tyranny he decided she should not be allowed on the valley, ok. Except that to beat her he decides to help the evil dude that in the few days he was in command of the convicts had already proven to be a total psycho cruel tyrant, even worst than Octavia. And if he really believed for a second that McCreary would do anything but genocide or, in the best case, enslave all juancru (including himself, Gyoza and the doctor), he is criminally dumb and needs to die anyway Than we got Clarke, who just went "I LOVE MADDY I NEED TO PROTECT HER !!! SHE CANT BE COMMANDER, TOO DANGEROUS !!! SO I WILL BETRAY MY OWN AND HELP THE EVIL VILLAIN WIN AND HAVE ACCESS TO NUCLEAR WEAPONS, IM SURE HIM AND HIS GANG OF DANGEROUS CRIMINALS WILL TREAT US BOTH PRETTY WELL AFTER ALL MY FRIENDS AND ALLIES ARE DEAD !!" which also manages to be both evil and very very stupid Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Aug 14, 2018 |
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Aug 14, 2018 13:29
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Norwegian Rudo posted:Once she decides to go to war rather than being essentially slaves to a bunch of convicted (and as far as we've seen largely unrepentant) murderers, burning the farm was pretty much a necessity. Now she needs to motivate what is a fractured group to fight, which burning the farm does by taking away their options. Without it they need to fight or die. The point was, the farm didn't need to be burnt and that war could have been completely avoided. Elias_Maluco posted:Kane, Octavia and Clarke are all to blame for the carnage and the end of the world. But I would say Octavia is the most forgivable of them 3 not empty quoting
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Aug 14, 2018 13:57
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Dalael posted:The point was, the farm didn't need to be burnt and that war could have been completely avoided. The war could have been avoided by making themselves basically slaves to a bunch of psychotic murderers, living in a desolate post-nuclear hellhole with no prospect for improving their situation. Acting like "peace" was clearly the better option is disingenuous at best.
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Aug 14, 2018 14:33
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Genghis Clarke has done nothing wrong. She is enacting God's true vengeance.
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Aug 14, 2018 14:36
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Norwegian Rudo posted:The war could have been avoided by making themselves basically slaves to a bunch of psychotic murderers, living in a desolate post-nuclear hellhole with no prospect for improving their situation. Acting like "peace" was clearly the better option is disingenuous at best. For one, Monty made it clear that he could revive the wildlife around the bunker. they could have lived of the Hydro farm for a while until he does. So there was a prospect of improvement. Octavia simply chose to disregard that option because "  i ate people in that place " Sure that was traumatic, but not any more than having half your people get slaughtered in an ambush in the middle of a mountain pass.When there's about 500 people left total, war shouldn't even be an option. Also, how would they have been enslaved? As far as i recall, a large part of Wankru used to be grounders, who are pretty much all proficient at fighting. Peace was entirely possible.
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Aug 14, 2018 15:03
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Norwegian Rudo posted:The war could have been avoided by making themselves basically slaves to a bunch of psychotic murderers, living in a desolate post-nuclear hellhole with no prospect for improving their situation. Acting like "peace" was clearly the better option is disingenuous at best. I don't think this is really true. Diyoza or whatever her name was seemed willing to be equal to wonkru as long as Octavia was willing to give up command. The problem was that Octavia could not give up the power.
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Aug 14, 2018 15:06
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So Blodreina was arrested for hitting her boyfriend. Hope she'll be okay. Odds of Octavia dying in cryo have just gone up I guess..
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Aug 14, 2018 15:31
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I would have never guessed she's 32.
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Aug 14, 2018 15:37
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Martian posted:So Blodreina was arrested for hitting her boyfriend. Wow. I wonder how badly she hurt him.
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Aug 14, 2018 15:48
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TMMadman posted:I don't think this is really true. Diyoza or whatever her name was seemed willing to be equal to wonkru as long as Octavia was willing to give up command. So a terrorist, in charge of a fractured band of convicts, tells you that they'll totally leave you in peace, all you have to do is surrender, and you take them at their word? Even if she actually meant it there is no conceivable way she would be able to maintain control of her people. That lack of women alone...
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Aug 14, 2018 15:58
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Norwegian Rudo posted:So a terrorist, in charge of a fractured band of convicts, tells you that they'll totally leave you in peace, all you have to do is surrender, and you take them at their word? Even if she actually meant it there is no conceivable way she would be able to maintain control of her people. That lack of women alone... I got the impression that qhat Diyoza wanted was to use the grounders to keep the prisoners in check and would have been more likely to kill off prisoners than wonkru if they were all living in the valley together. Obviously there would be a few prisoners she wouldn't kill, but my overall impression was that she did not really care for almost all of them and instead recognized that they were useful, but that the grounders were better.
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Aug 14, 2018 16:08
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Norwegian Rudo posted:So a terrorist, in charge of a fractured band of convicts, tells you that they'll totally leave you in peace, all you have to do is surrender, and you take them at their word? Even if she actually meant it there is no conceivable way she would be able to maintain control of her people. That lack of women alone... She managed to keep the few Juancru who did surrender safe so, yes? Or Octavia could have not burned down the hydroponics lab and let Monty work his algae magic. also 
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Aug 14, 2018 16:25
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I dont think surrender was a safe option, even when Gyoza was still in command. They still were a gang of convicts who anyway already proved themselves to be some mean bastards After McCreary became the leader, though, surrender was to deliver themselves to death of a fate arguably worst than death, to expect anything would be just retarded A really good option, if they werent all dumb jerks, would be: 1- take down Octavia at all costs. It wouldnt be hard if Clarke didint kidnap Maddy after she became commander. At that moment everyone had lost hope in Octavia leadership already, the only reason they were still following her was for the complete lack of alternatives. The instant conversion of that soldier guy Clarke murdered was a preview of what was going to happen with all juancru, Octavia would be isolated, at most with a few die hard zealots, and then could be killed if she refused to follow Maddy 2- secure the goddam farm at all costs 3- hide and protect the pilot so McCreary cant use the ship or the missiles, turn the bunker into a fortress 4- wait until the convicts all die or come crawling for help, due their utter lack of the skills necessary to make a living out of the valley
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Aug 14, 2018 16:53
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Elias_Maluco posted:I dont think surrender was a safe option, even when Gyoza was still in command. They still were a gang of convicts who anyway already proved themselves to be some mean bastards Everything you said would be cool and good, if it wasn't for Clarke and Kane being gigantic assholes. They tried to hide and protect the pilot, he simply didn't go along with the plan.
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Aug 14, 2018 17:08
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Dalael posted:For one, Monty made it clear that he could revive the wildlife around the bunker. they could have lived of the Hydro farm for a while until he does. So there was a prospect of improvement. Octavia simply chose to disregard that option because " Yeah, the hydro farm had plants they were just sick and dying, Monty pretty much immediately brought them back so it's not like the only choice was surrender or fighting to the death for the valley. The choices were being uncomfortable in cannibal bunker while Monty fixes the entire planet, surrender or fighting to the death for the valley. Octavia chose to fight to the death because she didn't like the bunker. Also the show probably couldn't show the true size of the battle due to the numbers involved but there were 1100 people left. 800ish Wonkru were left when the bunker was opened and 300ish Convicts landed. Even with the convict civil war and Octavia throwing people at the desert there were still like 400-500 Wonkru massacred in the ambush which makes Octavia look even worse when you realize she killed the majority of humanity because she personally refused to live in the bunker.
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Aug 14, 2018 17:45
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Rectal Death Adept posted:Yeah, the hydro farm had plants they were just sick and dying, Monty pretty much immediately brought them back so it's not like the only choice was surrender or fighting to the death for the valley. The choices were being uncomfortable in cannibal bunker while Monty fixes the entire planet, surrender or fighting to the death for the valley. Octavia chose to fight to the death because she didn't like the bunker. She didint do it alone: if Clarke didint took Maddy away, they would have a leader to oppose Octavia, and one probably smart enough (thanks to the chip in her head) to ensure the farm was kept well guarded And then juancru was going to win the war, anyway (not beacuse of Octavia, of course, but because they had McCreary's plans) if wanst for Kane and Gyoza betrayal And finally Clarke had to be idiotic again and give McCreary even the loving pilot, after Kane gave him the victory It wanst all Octavia fault, is what Im saying
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Aug 14, 2018 18:27
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I dunno if it was even that Octavia didn't want to live in the Bunker per se, I just think she: a) had a death wish b) only found meaning in life in constant warfare, fighting, and struggling. She was never gonna be happy and live in peace. Once she found meaning in her warrior training, she always looked to fighting as the way forward. It worked to get the Bunker, but after that it was constant fighting, conflict, bloodsports, death. If Diyoza and the convicts didn't show up, she would have found some way to instigate fighting amongst Wonkru. She always needs an enemy and a new fight to look to. If you notice, every time she was presented with a peaceful solution this season by Bellamy or anyone, she rejected it out of hand. If all Wonkru or even all humanity died, she'd be satisfied as long as she was the last to fall.
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Aug 15, 2018 01:16
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I think she had a bit of a death wish too, yeah, she was definitely hosed up over the bunker. I also think getting out of the bunker was like getting out of the hole in the floor and bitch didn't want to go back again lol
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Aug 15, 2018 01:31
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Was Raven always awesome at all the things or only after she was connected to the AI for a while?
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Aug 15, 2018 08:01
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Lasagna Pilot posted:Was Raven always awesome at all the things or only after she was connected to the AI for a while? She was a genius protege but it's possible Allie made her smarter.
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Aug 15, 2018 08:10
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I remember it being that she was trained in mechanical engineering, but she gets her hacking knowledge from ALIE.
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Aug 15, 2018 08:55
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She's always been awesome. She always got base locked due her her leg.
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Aug 15, 2018 09:25
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Raven was always the most resourceful and the least murderous and rear end in a top hat of them all Well, Monty too, but he is boring edit: "was"
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Aug 15, 2018 13:01
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Elias_Maluco posted:Raven was always the most resourceful and the least murderous and rear end in a top hat of them all Not everyone can be as awesome as Murphy.
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Aug 15, 2018 13:55
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I'm going to miss Monty and Harper. Monty wasn't the coolest character by any means, but he's one of the few who managed to reign in his bloodlust, if he even had any. Harper i will miss less, mostly because she never did very much other than being Monty's girlfriend. *edit: I meant Monty, not Murphy. Sorry for confusion Dalael fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Aug 15, 2018 |
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Aug 15, 2018 14:19
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Dalael posted:I'm going to miss Murphy and Harper. Murphy wasn't the coolest character by any means, but he's one of the few who managed to reign in his bloodlust, if he even had any. Harper i will miss less, mostly because she never did very much other than being Monty's girlfriend. wait, what happened to Murphy? I though they took him to the ship too fake edit: and Murphy is(was?) the coolest character
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Aug 15, 2018 14:21
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Murphy was on the ship, he ain't going anywhere.
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Aug 15, 2018 14:22
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Elias_Maluco posted:wait, what happened to Murphy? I though they took him to the ship too I meant Monty. No idea why I wrote Murphy
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Aug 15, 2018 14:37
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The only thing that could possibly kill Murphy at this point is old age, and he'll still go down swinging. He's the sole goddamn survivor of Jaha's Wild Ride. He's resilient as hell.
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Aug 15, 2018 14:40
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Dalael posted:I meant Monty. No idea why I wrote Murphy Makes sense now Me I always hated them both and Im glad they are dead
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Aug 15, 2018 14:44
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That finale definitely felt like a "we're not sure we're getting renewed!" ending. Because this is a spot where you could just end it and say they all lived happily ever after on their new home.
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Aug 16, 2018 02:03
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Elias_Maluco posted:fake edit: and Murphy is(was?) the coolest character Monty Jr knows this as well. I just realized one big thing for next season: Monty only chose to wake up Clarke and Bellamy. That means they can chose to wake up whoever they want. They can keep whoever they want on ice until they scout out the planet and set things up. All the decisions for the direction of Humanity (assuming there are no prior settlers) will be up to them. They don't have to wake up Bloodraina, Baby Leader, Doctor Cannibal Mom, Dioza, any of the convicts or any of the Grounders. The only one who is fairly mature and reasonable is Kane, but til they get proper medical facilities set up, they can't even talk to him to get his input. Should be fairly interesting to see if they thaw everyone or get selective.
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Aug 16, 2018 02:07
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Astroman posted:Should be fairly interesting to see if they thaw everyone or get selective. They will have a discussion on whether they should wake everyone up and then there will be a system malfunction that forces them to do it anyway.
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Aug 16, 2018 02:17
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Let's be realistic, the first four people out of those pods will be Octavia, Abby, Madi and Echo. And it'll take them maybe two episodes to be back at each other's throats. In other news, I liked the show paralleling in the way Monty and Clarke raised their kids.And you just know Monty Jr. has some strong anti-Octavia bias going on.
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Aug 16, 2018 02:25
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Depending on how this real life arrest thing shakes out we might not see Octavia next season.
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Aug 16, 2018 02:27
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Her boyfriend must be a pussy, she's like 5'3"
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Aug 16, 2018 02:35
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Jet Li is a tiny dude. Doesn’t matter man.
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Aug 16, 2018 03:20
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I would guess the arrest isn't going to affect anything, but I actually read the article.
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Aug 16, 2018 03:28
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afaik he bailed her out immediately and isn't pressing charges. So unless the state of Cali wants to charge her she's prob fine.
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Aug 16, 2018 03:33
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esperterra posted:afaik he bailed her out immediately and isn't pressing charges. So unless the state of Cali wants to charge her she's prob fine. When it becomes a felony, isn't the charge upto the discretion of the state's attorneys?
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Aug 16, 2018 03:39
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