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I took my 90s GM to a local AC shop that specialises on freezer trucks and does old cars as side business. They filled my R12 system with some ready made replacement refrigerant blend.. RS24(?) http://rscool.com/rs-24/
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Aug 5, 2018 05:07
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Got guesstimated $900-$1000 to fix the AC on my 2009 Alfa MiTo due too leaking condenser and "rear line" (was green as gently caress). I think I'll skip it (even if I could replace the line and condenser myself I guess). I doubt the car is worth even 3k with the AC working, so don't really feel like spending the money. Already survived 30+ degrees C with the sun baking. It's a white car so it's manageable. I think I'll rather spend the money on saving towards an upgrade. The car itself has been great for the girlfriend to practice driving in. Probably paid for itself already in the lesson costs she'd need to get experience anyway.  Edit: Also asked about R12. He didn't know of anyone that drains it, so you'll kinda have to "assume" it's empty. MrOnBicycle fucked around with this message at 11:24 on Aug 13, 2018 |
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Aug 13, 2018 11:19
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AC on my AE86 continues to function. Going to put the UV light on it this weekend to check for leaks, but so far, so good. 50 degF at the center vent on recirc when it's 97 out isn't the greatest, but it'll do. I do have to be moving to get that, though, since the fan shroud and undertray are missing. I'll need to source those, or install an electric fan. This is an "air duster" (R-152) refit, new condenser, new drier, new TXV, for those that don't recall. I did discover during charging that I need to replace the seal on my vampire can tap.
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Aug 17, 2018 00:00
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You've got a fairly small car, engineered for Japan's relatively mild climate. It's no surprise the condenser has trouble dumping heat when it gets toasty out. Only real fix would be sourcing a bigger/deeper condenser, but that gets into rabbit hole territory real quick.
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Aug 17, 2018 00:24
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Enourmo posted:You've got a fairly small car, engineered for Japan's relatively mild climate. It's no surprise the condenser has trouble dumping heat when it gets toasty out. Only real fix would be sourcing a bigger/deeper condenser, but that gets into rabbit hole territory real quick. Don't get me wrong - I'm satisfied with what it's doing. 50 degF is fine, it just takes longer to bring the temp down. Thankfully the cabin is pretty small, too. On my '79 RX-7, I will be installing a universal parallel-flow condenser that is as big as I can make fit. The '84 condenser I had in it is partially stopped up anyway, and is a serpentine design that isn't terribly efficient and, well, gets stopped up.
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Aug 17, 2018 18:22
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'03 325i, having some interesting AC issues. A few weeks ago, the AC began cutting out occasionally, at highway speeds. Cycling the snowflake button would get it to come back on without much trouble. Fast forward to now, and AC is intermittant at best. It's gotten to the point where it'll only kick on at idle speeds, and tends to disengage somewhere north of about 2.5k rpm. When it kicks on, it's blowing ice cold. Current thoughts: -Check the pressures. I know it has a small leak, and generally takes a can of refrigerant every summer. I don't think a lack of refrigerant is the issue, as it's ice cold at idle. -Potentially too much refrigerant, causing it to trip the high pressure switch at higher rpm's, cutting out. Not sure why this wouldn't have presented itself previously - maybe the high pressure switch is bad? -E46's are known to poo poo out the final stage resistor, which typically kills the blower fan or results in it operating at 100% speed. Symptoms of a dying one are the fan speed varies erratically. This is happening occasionally, and I'm going to replace it this weekend. Hoping this is somehow related to the AC operation. -Ambient air temperature sensor. It's finicky, but issues seem to be independent of it's finickiness. Going to replace it this weekend anyway. -Compressor clutch dying (hopefully not!). The progressively worse, and seemingly RPM related issues, are what's pointing me here. Clutch is dying and can't engage at higher RPM's. Am I on the right track? What else should I look at?
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Aug 22, 2018 23:11
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Just got quoted $1250 to fix my A/C. That falls into the realm of DIY to make it anywhere near reasonable since I doubt the car is even worth 3 times that cost.
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Aug 23, 2018 13:26
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Well, dookie. AC on the AE86 worked on the way into work, but not on the way home. Compressor is not engaging. No leaks found with the UV light, so either there’s something else wrong in the control circuit (pressure switch, temp switch, rpm switch), or there’s a leak in the evaporator box. Or the clutch magnet or wiring is poop, but that’s easy to check, just didn’t have time yesterday.
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Aug 23, 2018 17:48
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TrueChaos posted:'03 325i, having some interesting AC issues. Check your pressures first. Not because it's the most likely, but because it's the easiest thing to do and could explain it. You may have low refrigerant and you're freezing the coil. The clutch is certainly a possibility, but you should be able to check that with one person in the car on the throttle and turning on the AC while you watch from outside. I doubt it's that, because it would be more likely to slip, which would make all manner of interesting noises and smells.
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Aug 24, 2018 18:36
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If it's as simple as low refrigerant I'm going to kick myself. I wouldn't be surprised if the leak has gotten a little worse and it's low, though I haven't seen this before. Probably because it never got low enough to be a problem during the summer, and leaked enough out over the winter that it was low enough not to freeze up (and only blow slightly cool) at the start of the summer. When its running there's always a thsss thsss thsss sound pretty constantly, and when it stops it'll do a long, slowing down, hissssss as it fades out. Not sure how to describe it without a warning. When it dies, I get hit with super humid air - does this point to anything in particular?
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Aug 25, 2018 04:51
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Pressures are great at idle. As rpms increase, low side pressure increases as well, and cuts out when the low side hits around 55-60 psi, corresponding to around 2500 rpm. Not sure what would cause that, but from my understanding low side should be pretty constant regardless of rpm? e: My high pressure gauge appears to be pooched, I didn't notice before. Replacement ordered. I'm not clear on if the compressor cuts out because the low side pressure increases, or if the low side pressure increases because the compressor cuts out, especially now that I don't trust the high pressure reading. I'm starting to suspect that I'm tripping the high pressure switch due to a blockage somewhere. TrueChaos fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Aug 27, 2018 |
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Aug 26, 2018 23:08
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I have gone to several places and have only had one good leade so far (sort of). I have a 2011 Subaru Forester 2.5X. It does not have individual climate control. I can turn on the fan from 1 to 4, and I can adjust the temp with an analog dial. I can also tell the system to recycle air or not. Anyways, in the front there are 4 A/C vents. One on the driver side left, driver side right, and the next to that one is passenger side left and then finally passenger side left. Passenger's sides left and right blow put perfectly cold air. On the drivers side, the left side blows out semi cold air, but the driver right, which is adjacent to normal passenger left, blows put warm/room temp air. There is only one coolant system (unless I am grossly mistaken) so its not an issue of refrigerant levels and what not, because this is a consistent problem across all vents. Anyone have any insight at all? I talked to a guy at Pep Boys and he said it may be a valve that should equalize air temp, but didn't seem sure.
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Aug 27, 2018 05:13
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My CR-V with a similarly basic single zone system had the exact but opposite symptom. Passenger side cold, drivers side intermittently not. Dug through the Honda service manual and discovered that it is apparently possible for their systems (and presumably some but not all others) to have pressures high enough to not trip the pressure switches, but have insufficient refrigerant levels / flow to flood the whole evaporator core. In Honda's case, refrigerant enters the evaporator from the passenger side, so when this happens the refrigerant has all turned to gas before it gets all the way across the core - leading to inconsistent temperatures. In my case it was not a leak, but a flow restriction at the expansion valve. When I pulled a vacuum on it and recharged it, it went from an intermittent issue to a fully stuck shut valve (high pressure on high side, near vacuum on low side, and no cold air). Replaced the expansion valve, which loving SUCKED to do, recharged it, and it's worked great since.
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Aug 27, 2018 05:42
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Cool I found (by accident) the rarest of rare. R134a containing product. CRC Electro Cool, that is used for finding problems 'n poo poo in electric circuits. Contains 97% R134a and 3% Dimethyl ether. Theoretically I should be able to refill a R134a system with these, providing there are adapters and such right? I think they are discontinued though, but the store had at least 10 200ml cans. Maybe worth stocking up on?
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Aug 27, 2018 18:17
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I'd be amazed if it were cheaper than buying actual cans of R-134a, which are very much not rare.
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Aug 28, 2018 17:11
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Darchangel posted:I'd be amazed if it were cheaper than buying actual cans of R-134a, which are very much not rare. Maybe he's in Euroland where I heard (in this very thread I believe) that it is rare? Maybe?
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Aug 28, 2018 17:23
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It seems like you can't sell anything with R134 (that isn't already in the shops) here, so it's pretty rare. I think it's some recent EU legislation change. At least in Sweden we could buy dusters n poo poo with R134a a couple of years ago. It's all been discontinued and is now (apparently) just what's still available in stock. The cans I found aren't even listed in the online site of the store in question. Having trouble finding what 200ml R134a is in grams though. If a ridiculous amount of cans are needed it's not worth it. A/C service here costs around $100. But maybe as a intermediate until I decide if I can be bothered to repair my A/C fully. Not spending $1250, that's for sure. MrOnBicycle fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Aug 28, 2018 |
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Aug 28, 2018 17:47
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In Canada we can't get R134a without a licence (I'm not sure what the rules are with a licence) but we can get redtek 12a, which is a hydrocarbon refrigerant. It works fine in R134a systems and has the same compatibility as 134a. Probably the same as what you can get in Europe. It has the advantage of not being a greenhouse gas, as well as not being ozone depleting.
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Aug 28, 2018 18:03
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Motronic posted:Check your pressures first. Not because it's the most likely, but because it's the easiest thing to do and could explain it. You may have low refrigerant and you're freezing the coil. The clutch is certainly a possibility, but you should be able to check that with one person in the car on the throttle and turning on the AC while you watch from outside. I doubt it's that, because it would be more likely to slip, which would make all manner of interesting noises and smells. Alright, so I have some data and I'm suspecting some kind of compressor failure or expansion valve failure. BMW says to charge at 1200-1500 RPM, because its a variable displacement compressor. Low side pressure is at 40-45 PSI, high side at 150ish at idle. At 1500 RPM it's 33/175, and I get nice cold air. As RPM increases, pressure holds constant on the low side, increasing slightly on the high side until about 2500-3000Rpm, at which point the high side drops down to 120ish and the low side spikes to 70ish, and I no longer have AC. Dropping back to idle, the high side slowly increases to 150, low side back to 45, and I get cool air again. At no point do I hear or see the clutch disengage. After 10-15 minutes of car off, the low side is at 90psi (where it should be based on redtek 12a and 35c out) but the high side is at 110 still. I'm going to let it sit for an hour and check again. I can take a video of the gauges if that will help.
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Aug 28, 2018 23:48
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So uh... After a few loud disconcerting bangs with the AC on that impacted my rpm at idle I no longer have AC at any RPM. Belt still attached, still holds pressure, ac pully still spinning. Yay for self diagnostic compressor, at least I know what to replace now!
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Aug 30, 2018 01:26
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you probably also just filled your AC system with black death, AKA compressor shrapnel.
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Aug 31, 2018 22:03
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TrueChaos posted:I know what to replace now! Everything.
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Aug 31, 2018 22:10
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Metal Geir Skogul posted:Everything. yeah p much. but fall is coming! sell the car in winter and you can find a rube that doesnt know the a/c doesnt work! MrOnBicycle posted:It seems like you can't sell anything with R134 (that isn't already in the shops) here, so it's pretty rare. this is unfortunate. i buy my r134a at the farm supply store for $4.something+tax. god bless the USA  TrueChaos posted:In Canada we can't get R134a without a licence (I'm not sure what the rules are with a licence) but we can get redtek 12a, which is a hydrocarbon refrigerant. It works fine in R134a systems and has the same compatibility as 134a. Probably the same as what you can get in Europe. It has the advantage of not being a greenhouse gas, as well as not being ozone depleting. and amusingly that stuff is apparently illegal in the USA because ~~flammable~~. I looked into it when I was working on the Volvo and apparently hydrocarbon stuff is all banned in America. That doesn't stop good ole boys from using stuff including propane, butane, and a propane/butane mix on their old cars because "that's all government bullshit anyway/I'm too good of a driver to ever have an accident." Kind of like how back in the 80s there was a red food dye that was banned in America and legal in Canada and our red dye was illegal there in turn. Your Canadian R12 replacement probably works better than many modern refrigerants and the odds of a fire, realistically, are trivial, but it's good for a domestic shop here to know what they're working with. berth ell pup fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Sep 1, 2018 |
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Sep 1, 2018 00:23
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Darchangel posted:I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you probably also just filled your AC system with black death, AKA compressor shrapnel. Ah well. Current plan is to junkyard a compressor, replace the dryer, fill it up and see what happens. If I wind up needing to do more so be it, but this'll cost me about 75$ total (including recharging) and is worth a shot. It may have been the clutch letting go rather than the compressor. I'm going to take the compressor apart at some point. berth ell pup posted:and amusingly that stuff is apparently illegal in the USA because ~~flammable~~. I looked into it when I was working on the Volvo and apparently hydrocarbon stuff is all banned in America.
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Sep 1, 2018 07:27
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Yeah don't do that unless you're absofuckinglutely positive it was only the clutch that let go, unless you really like doing the same job several times. Protip: if you heard more than a single, barely audible "kachunk" before the ac quit, it's not the clutch. It's not THAT bad to flush everything else. Pain in the rear end for sure, and you'll need a new condenser and TXV (some say you should also replace the evaporator, but there's a lot of flush kits that claim you don't need to so long as you flush the hell out of it, along with installing an inline filter - a lot of compressor companies will also honor the warranty so long as you can prove that you, or an ASE mechanic, flushed everything), but you really need to flush the hell out of everything.
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Sep 1, 2018 09:50
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A bit of a revive of the thread, but what is the goonpinion on "regular" A/C service/maintenance? Obviously the people charging for it say that manufacturers claim that it should be done every other year to ensure that the system works properly, and that the system can lose 10-15% a year if not serviced.. Service here is drain/fill/vacuum test/fill oil and coolant. Usually ~$100. The car in question does blow cold air and is working fine. Do want to keep it that way and don't mind the cost unless it's wasted money.
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Oct 12, 2018 17:15
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Go buy a $5 vent thermometer. When the system can't generate vent temps of <40F after extended running (recirculated in a shady area), or 70ish on a super hot day, it's maybe time to take it in. A/C is absolutely not a regular maintenance item, only service it when it needs repair.
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Oct 12, 2018 17:42
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Hello AC thread! I recently bought a 1985 Supra. The AC worked (poorly) for a day and then the compressor belt shredded on the highway. I don't know much about AC systems and figured the PO hadn't tensioned it properly (it looked brand new) so I bought a new one and installed it correctly and the same thing happened, again pretty much as soon as I got it on the highway. I bought another belt and this time right after starting the car and turning on the AC after installation smoke starts coming from the compressor and it seizes. Since this is my daily driver and I live in South Florida I figured I would replace as much of the tired AC system as I could, so I have purchased the following parts: - Denso remanufactured compressor (from Denso themselves, it looks brand new) - Everco evaporator core - Denso receiver drier - Denso expansion valve This is an R12 system. Is it possible to find shops that will still use R12, and will they have it on hand or do I have to provide it? If not, what exactly happens? Do they use R134? Will that cause any problems? Will the AC shop guys even want to bother with such an old car/system? Are there any other parts I should add to my list to prevent being charged more by the shop? How can you tell if an AC shop knows their poo poo? I know it's a lot of probably dumb questions but AC stuff has always mystified me, it's like the only consistently unreliable thing in older cars, even ones known otherwise for their reliability. I'm sort of afraid I'm going to go through all this and it will just die again in a few months, because 80's car AC. d0s fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Oct 22, 2018 |
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Oct 22, 2018 19:02
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They will convert it to r134A as part of that "whatever else is needed", and it will work fine other than not getting quite as cold as it would with R12. You can probably find somebody that still does r12 if you really want to, but it will cost more. Rockauto doesn't even LIST an 85 Supra but the 86 has a condenser available on one of the engine options, I don't know which one you have/if that helps you at all.
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Oct 22, 2018 19:15
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Javid posted:They will convert it to r134A as part of that "whatever else is needed", and it will work fine other than not getting quite as cold as it would with R12. You can probably find somebody that still does r12 if you really want to, but it will cost more. Thanks for clearing that up, I've read a lot of stuff on the forum specific to my car that "R134 destroys R12 systems!!!" but it's probably typical car forum stupidity. Because of where I live I'm still going to try to find a place that will do R12, the systems in these cars aren't very cold even when perfect so I would rather pay more to get it as cold as possible. The 86 Supra is the next generation of car to mine, but I think I have found the condenser if the ebay seller comes through, see my edit to the original post
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Oct 22, 2018 19:22
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There is a grain of truth there, in that the mineral oil R12 systems use isn't compatible with R134a. It doesn't mix properly with the refrigerant, which is how the oil gets pumped around, so if you just do a quick vac/recharge with the new refrigerant you end up with an unlubricated compressor that quickly eats itself. That's an easy enough fix though, just flush out all the old oil and replace with PAG.
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Oct 22, 2018 19:33
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The vac and flush is also part of "whatever else is needed" Personally I'd just get the r134a to save some headache in the future, but whatever you gotta do to survive Florida, I guess.
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Oct 22, 2018 19:46
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Javid posted:
I just thought of that as well and really I think I'm just going to do this, considering I've pretty much gotten used to driving with no AC at all it will probably still feel great.
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Oct 22, 2018 19:51
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If/when I ever come across another R12 system that hasn't been converted yet, I'd consider doing R152a (aka 'computer duster') instead of 134a. Supposedly performs much more like R12 in older systems.
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Oct 22, 2018 19:59
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My car has a slow leak and being able to just chuck a $5 can of r134a into it every summer for the last 8 or so years has been way cheaper and easier than actually having the problem fixed, and wouldn't have been possible if I had kept it r12. In Florida, the conditioned air being dry is probably more important than it being cold, anyway.
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Oct 22, 2018 20:03
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IOwnCalculus posted:If/when I ever come across another R12 system that hasn't been converted yet, I'd consider doing R152a (aka 'computer duster') instead of 134a. Supposedly performs much more like R12 in older systems. Rad, I'll ask the AC shop if they can do it. Also the ebay seller just notified me that they don't have the condenser and refunded me  In a system where the compressor has died the way mine has, is the condenser normally salvageable?
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Oct 22, 2018 20:03
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If you're having a shop do it, they probably won't do R152a since it's actually a royal pain to buy that poo poo with the proper labeling as a refrigerant. You can buy it at retail in a computer duster can and vent it to atmosphere all you want to get rid of some dust, but if you put the exact same poo poo in a can and call it refrigerant suddenly the regulators get concerned about leaks.
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Oct 22, 2018 20:11
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d0s posted:Rad, I'll ask the AC shop if they can do it. Also the ebay seller just notified me that they don't have the condenser and refunded me Depends on if it's single-flow or parallel, the latter is basically impossible to adequately flush. E: Depending on how fancy the shop is, they may be able to either fabricate or source a larger condenser to fit in your car, which would eliminate the one drawback of R134a. It's a less effective refrigerant, but if you whack a bigger condenser in to compensate it can dump just as much heat as the original system and give you icy vent temps.
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Oct 22, 2018 20:15
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Everything I buy is R12 and it's easy enough to get on eBay here in the US, so for a weak but sealed system I keep it on R12. If the compressor died though I'd convert it to R135 and be done with it. If you want someone else to do it though they will convert it to R134 even though that's probably going to be going away as a refrigerant soon because it turns out it's a lovely green house gas anyway  I'm in Sarasota FL so having working AC is far more important than heat.
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Oct 22, 2018 21:20
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AC question ahoy. My wife has her heart set on a low mileage Forester. There's '14 for sale locally, that seems to fit the bill. When I went to test drive the car on saturday, it was about 40 degrees [freedom] and raining. After I got back to the dealership, I popped the hood and noticed two things, first that the AC compressor was a little noisier than I would have expected, and second that the... expansion valve(?) had frost on it. I have a feeling that's not what should be happening, but I have also never really looked closely at AC lines, especially on a cold, wet day. I did not have the AC on (the toggle in the middle of one of the dials), but I did have the HVAC turned to the windshield defrost, which, I *think* gets the compressor working as well. For the visual learners out there, this block of aluminum in the AC system is what had a layer of frost on it (this is a stock photo, sourced from GIS):  I see these cars have a TSB (10-84-16r) for AC stuff, and I have no idea to know if the TSB has been acted on. I didn't know to get a picture of the serial number on the compressor. After much ado, here are the questions I've arrived at: 1. Do AC lines frost up on cold, wet days? I'm on the fence here- it was cold and just about 100% humidity, so frost didn't seem completely unlikely, however I can't say I ever noticed a frosty AC component on a cold, damp day, but I've never really looked either. 2. Could a low charge/pressure situation explain BOTH the frosting and the [seemingly] excessive clicking and whir coming from the compressor?
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Oct 29, 2018 17:26
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