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freckle posted:different states exist moving is, get this, difficult and perhaps why some people still live in west virginia.
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Mar 25, 2018 03:48
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freckle posted:different states exist It is expensive and hard to move to another state Especially if you don't have a job guaranteed when you get there
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Mar 25, 2018 03:52
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Accretionist posted:It seems like you're to imply, "your issue doesn't exist, there's just nowhere for them to go." I think you need to reevaluate: No, what I'm saying is that we can't pretend that cities are paradises with no downsides either, and that there's no sense literally evacuating rural areas and shipping everyone to the cities without first addressing the serious problems in urban areas.
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Mar 25, 2018 03:55
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Accretionist posted:You're assuming this is true: It is true. See for example the demographic history of Allen county, Kansas, which exhibits trends characteristic of much of rural Kansas generally: pre:County 1890 1900 1910 1920 1930 1940 1950 1960 1970 1980 1990 2000 2010 Allen 13,509 19,507 27,640 23,509 21,391 19,874 18,187 16,369 15,043 15,654 14,638 14,385 13,371 I don't deny there are people who'd like to move but can't. However there are a lot of reasons I think there a lot of problems with any step that will drive faster rural population decline. First is that it is unfair to particular and unique communities that exist today in rural areas and whose members will generally not want to participate, like many Native Americans. Leaving the reservation can be very controversial and often involves surrendering a part of their identity, and I think it would be better to fix the problems in those places than just try and eliminate them all together. Another issue is that as rural populations become smaller, it becomes increasingly difficult and expensive to provide services to the people who remain. The result is accelerated decline as the more people leave the worse existing problems become. Of course it will be the young and better educated who are most needed that will be most likely to take an offer to leave. A third problem which is why I posted the graph earlier is that just moving people to cities or some other rural area isn't itself an accomplishment. I want to see poverty reduced and peoples lives improved, turning the rural poor into the suburban poor isn't anything to celebrate. I'm not sure what your dying towns are like but there's a lot of lovely cities as well. One more problem I wanted to point out is that one reason people can't today move to places with lots of jobs and economic opportunity like San Francisco or Seattle because there is a housing shortage. There's just not enough places for people to live. Giving people assistance with relocation isn't going to fix that, more people with more money trying to move in will just make prices higher. More importantly, you have to fix the supply issue. That is before people can move you have to build places for them to live. Finally, a lot of the rural poor are illegal hispanic immigrants who work as farm labor, and would probably not be able to access any such program if it were to exist. However general support to the communities in which they live would be much more likely to be useful to them, and in places like the Texas-Mexico border they have a lot of needs. So it's not that I don't think such a program couldn't help anybody. It's just that I think it would disproportionately help young white people over minorities while harming those who can't or won't leave these places by eroding their communities even faster. Better would be to make moving easier by increasing services and affordability in places people want to move now, but can't for whatever reason.
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Mar 25, 2018 03:56
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anime was right posted:moving is, get this, difficult and perhaps why some people still live in west virginia.
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Mar 25, 2018 03:59
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also yeah no not looking to moving out either
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Mar 25, 2018 04:00
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anime was right posted:moving is, get this, difficult and perhaps why some people still live in west virginia. nah
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Mar 25, 2018 04:08
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rent is too low IMO
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Mar 25, 2018 04:08
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As automated trucking becomes standard I support the development of innovative, disruptive, possession-based industries that take their right from the leeching multinationals that actually own literally everything.
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Mar 25, 2018 04:08
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Main Paineframe posted:it's not the moving itself that's expensive Yeah because everywhere else is trying to keep the degenerate trust fund assholes out.
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Mar 25, 2018 04:09
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Squalid posted:So it's not that I don't think such a program couldn't help anybody. It's just that I think it would disproportionately help young white people over minorities while harming those who can't or won't leave these places by eroding their communities even faster. Better would be to make moving easier by increasing services and affordability in places people want to move now, but can't for whatever reason. If you improve services and affordability in those places with no other efforts, aren't you disproportionately helping the young advantaged people who are already there?
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Mar 25, 2018 04:12
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Main Paineframe posted:No, what I'm saying is that we can't pretend that cities are paradises with no downsides either, and that there's no sense literally evacuating rural areas and shipping everyone to the cities without first addressing the serious problems in urban areas. I'm pretty sure that your idea of a, "failed town," is my idea of a, "regular rural town but poor," so we're just talking past each other.
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Mar 25, 2018 04:16
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Grognan posted:As automated trucking becomes standard I support the development of innovative, disruptive, possession-based industries that take their right from the leeching multinationals that actually own literally everything.
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Mar 25, 2018 04:21
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megacities are extremely cool and good and gutting the cosmic waste of money that is the united states military would be a real start at subsidizing relocation and providing ubi the option is building out buses and trains and infrastructure (week) for every little rural town of 500 people (many such cases!) while they people remain jobless except they have a ubi of 10k a year or whatever you set it at i mean if the cost of supporting infrastructure ends up not that big a deal and you wanna let them stay in the middle of nowhere, then fine i guess, but rural america is hosed in the end
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Mar 25, 2018 04:23
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whole lotta liberals itt
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Mar 25, 2018 04:59
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Peanut President posted:whole lotta liberals itt yes time to ban cities
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Mar 25, 2018 05:15
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logikv9 posted:yes time to ban cities i just don't trust people who see Judge Dredd as a utopian situation ed: its a personal flaw
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Mar 25, 2018 05:17
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Peanut President posted:i just don't trust people who see Judge Dredd as a utopian situation It's absolutely a dystopia but it's a cool clean one
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Mar 25, 2018 05:22
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What about underground cities
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Mar 25, 2018 05:23
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That's right fucker I see the Matrix sequels as the utopian solution
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Mar 25, 2018 05:24
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This isn't unique to the US, same thing is happening in Japan because there's no future in their rural areas But part of that is also that thise rural areas are still coastal, and relied on the fishing industry, and the Japanese fishing industry is in massive problems due to overfishing. They've basically fished all their waters, so there's nothing but jellyfish.
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Mar 25, 2018 05:24
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can we have better music?
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Mar 25, 2018 05:24
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Sure Mega City One is a brutal fascist police state that lives in abject fear and poverty, but it's cool as poo poo
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Mar 25, 2018 05:26
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as long as cornel west is still in the ruling council i'm fine with it
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Mar 25, 2018 05:27
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Judge dread isn't a utopia but it basically is what the future will look like. Very dense megacities surrounded by vast polluted wastes. Only we'll get there through ecological destruction, not nuclear war.
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Mar 25, 2018 05:27
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Mandoric posted:If you improve services and affordability in those places with no other efforts, aren't you disproportionately helping the young advantaged people who are already there? Yeah probably so. These problems aren't easy to solve. People are going to keep leaving rural areas for the foreseeable future -- I just worry about creating perverse incentives that can backfire. Me and Accretionist both basically want to help people to do the things they already want to do. I saw this video recently about some of Kansas's efforts to keep people in rural areas, offering up to $15,000 in student loan forgiveness. One of the guys in the video just describes how he's planning on taking the money and then leaving as soon as possible anyway.\ trigger warning: video contains Sam Brownback https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7Gj1wDfKFM
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Mar 25, 2018 05:27
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logikv9 posted:That's right fucker I see the Matrix sequels as the utopian solution as long as we have sweet rave parties every night sign me up
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Mar 25, 2018 05:31
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rudatron posted:This isn't unique to the US, same thing is happening in Japan because there's no future in their rural areas Rural population as a proportion of the total is declining literally everywhere. I read a report about how in Somalia urbanization has been accelerated by famine and civil war. The cities are safer, and have better access to food. The precise factors are different in every country but the basic trend is the same.
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Mar 25, 2018 05:31
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Move all the rurals to a rat infested shithole where they will pay ten times as much for a worse standard of living but have great access to juice bars and bikram yoga
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Mar 25, 2018 05:43
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we kinda need to either live in megacities (with some rurality still maintained, of course) or kill about 6 billion people so uh have fun with that choice
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Mar 25, 2018 05:56
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i think thats kind of happening anyway over time so its kinda w/e. just make sure the rurals still have access to basic poo poo and kinda of elbow young people into moving out. when the olds are too old move them to old folks homes near cities ok bye
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Mar 25, 2018 05:58
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Mar 25, 2018 06:35
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Its really normal to want to live in dense cities where any day above 70 degrees you constantly catch whiffs of hot dumpster juice
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Mar 25, 2018 12:38
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Larry Parrish posted:Its really normal to want to live in dense cities where any day above 70 degrees you constantly catch whiffs of hot dumpster juice This but rural shacks next door to pig farms.
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Mar 25, 2018 13:29
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I'm not sure what the point of debating urbanization is, because it's happening regardless of whether anyone wants it to or not and has been for the last two hundred years. And there isn't much reason to bemoan it either, because there's been huge net positive environmental benefits and we aren't living in dystopian Judge Dredd cities despite being overwhelmingly urbanized.
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Mar 25, 2018 14:13
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Accretionist posted:I'm pretty sure that your idea of a, "failed town," is my idea of a, "regular rural town but poor," so we're just talking past each other. i didn't say anything about "failed towns" everywhere sucks, whether it's rural or not. it's just that cities are more economically useful for the hyperwealthy and therefore suck in slightly different ways right now people have a choice between living in the fentanyl hellscapes or eking out a marginal existence in a hypercapitalist arcology while living in the only closet they could find that isn't owned by an absentee Chinese billionaire
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Mar 25, 2018 15:23
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anime was right posted:we kinda need to either live in megacities (with some rurality still maintained, of course) or kill about 6 billion people so uh have fun with that choice pgroce posted:This but rural shacks next door to pig farms. shut the gently caress up liberal.jpg
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Mar 25, 2018 15:46
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Peanut President posted:shut the gently caress up liberal.jpg this is a sick burn, but only if it’s a progressive jpeg
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Mar 25, 2018 16:04
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Thug Lessons posted:I'm not sure what the point of debating urbanization is, because it's happening regardless of whether anyone wants it to or not and has been for the last two hundred years. And there isn't much reason to bemoan it either, because there's been huge net positive environmental benefits and we aren't living in dystopian Judge Dredd cities despite being overwhelmingly urbanized. There's a dredd story from a couple years ago about an autistic kid who has basically memorized the entire legal code and gets taken hostage and reminds Dredd, by reciting a statute number, that it's okay to harm a civilian to kill a perp and then Dredd tells his parents to enroll him in the academy I guess what I'm saying is, CSPAM would all be enrolled in the academy
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Mar 25, 2018 16:45
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anime was right posted:we kinda need to either live in megacities (with some rurality still maintained, of course) or kill about 6 billion people so uh have fun with that choice hahahahahaha you think there's a choice is that where this megacity poo poo actually comes from? morons who think the climate apocalypse can be stopped? that ship sailed before most of the people posting on this forum were born
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Mar 25, 2018 16:48
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