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Vernacular posted:Two slides, maybe? Though I personally hope not. Would be great to see them work together, and boring to see the show end up with them just taking eachother out. I want it to end with mutual destruction. But an interlude where they take down the AG would be pretty sweet. Who else is a big enough fish for that? So far nothing like that on the horizon for the Axe side.
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Apr 30, 2018 16:25
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Vernacular posted:Two slides, maybe? Though I personally hope not. Would be great to see them work together, and boring to see the show end up with them just taking eachother out. Show is already renewed for a 4th season. I expect the tension to come from their "heirs", Connerty and Taylor, rebelling against their former teachers. Connerty will obviously be the one hurt most by the fallout of the Chuck/Axe entente, while the most obvious arc for Taylor would be Axe, after getting his trading license back, destroying their Silicon Valley boyfriend with some shady deal.
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Apr 30, 2018 16:27
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This season has really stepped it up. I’m anticipating it week to week which is a refreshing change.
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Apr 30, 2018 17:07
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I'm thinking with the Compliance Offer shrugging off Chuck's date rape accusation that Chuck might set him up using a DNA sample that the state still has from that case years ago They could say the Compliance Officer hacked Wendy's account and shorted the stock himself Framing him is in everyone's best interest
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May 1, 2018 04:59
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EugeneJ posted:I'm thinking with the Compliance Offer shrugging off Chuck's date rape accusation that Chuck might set him up using a DNA sample that the state still has from that case years ago Spiros wasn't working for AxeCap when Wendy shorted the stock, though
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May 1, 2018 05:34
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EugeneJ posted:I'm thinking with the Compliance Offer shrugging off Chuck's date rape accusation that Chuck might set him up using a DNA sample that the state still has from that case years ago How would hurting him affect anything, he might have lit the fuse but that's also the extent of his involvement in this.
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May 1, 2018 05:42
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Vernacular posted:Spiros wasn't working for AxeCap when Wendy shorted the stock, though I could see that past case coming back into play and Spiros getting screwed over by Chuck to advance his cause, maybe not to help Wendy but because it helps some other agenda or because it'll help get Axe. I don't think Chuck uses blackmail material that rich only once. Edit: I'm just now watching the episode and drat, "We're not in Hollywoowd" and "Say it loud enough I might even become President" is some vicious writing there, just...  .2nd Edit: Sarcastr0 posted:I want it to end with mutual destruction. But an interlude where they take down the AG would be pretty sweet. Who else is a big enough fish for that? I'd love to see them go after the AG working together, I think you can work a hell of an angle with them working together to stop Connerty from busting them, and then they decide to start going after each other's enemies from both sides of the law next season with Chuck manipulating people to prosecute Axe's enemies and Axe completely beating the AG out of office. Seeing them on the same side is super exciting, and not just because it should mean that we get Chuck and Axe in the same room more than once a season! And I don't think I need to even say what an asset Axe would be to Chuck's Governor race. Secret MVP of the episode was Black Jack Foley with that Koan too, I kind of wish I hadn't popped into the thread early because this teamup is wild and I never would have seen it coming. Oh, an since interest seems to be picking up some now as far as I'm concerned feel free to talk about the episodes and previews without spoiler tags after they're released, I may as well get that out there as my personal policy. NowonSA fucked around with this message at 08:38 on May 1, 2018 |
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May 1, 2018 07:27
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Well, that was some one-sided crushing of things. I think it served pretty well to show how insanely effective Chuck and Axe can be when they work together instead of against each other. We're bound to see at least a few excellent scenes of Connerty back at Southern too.
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May 7, 2018 11:52
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One-sided for sure, but it was a sick episode (as the last few have also been) nonetheless. Felt very season finale-ish, so it'll be interesting to see how the rest of the season's action rounds out. The only contrived bits were those last two scenes at the end with Chuck and Axe feeling the effects of their Machiavellian scheming - they felt forced and somewhat out of character - but otherwise, it was a pretty incredible showing. Actually, I'm finding Wendy's arc more interesting than either of theirs. Her ethical breakdown was by far more drastic than either Chuck or Axe; taking advantage of a client's sexual attraction to their therapist is some pretty next level terrible poo poo. I will be surprised if she sticks around at AxeCap after that. Taylor gets better and better each episode. Great little scene when she's staring intently into the private meeting. Also, that killer interaction between them and Wendy. If the rest of the season progresses with Axe vs. Taylor and Chuck vs. Connerty as expected, its gonna be great. We talk about it to death, but goddamn am I always just so impressed with the heavyweight ensemble acting. Also, just go ahead and send off Paul Giamatti's scenes with the doctor to the Emmy's for awards consideration.
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May 7, 2018 18:25
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Yeah Wendy by far was the one to compromise the most here. Chuck and Axe are just doing what they're always doing.
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May 7, 2018 18:36
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Vernacular posted:One-sided for sure, but it was a sick episode (as the last few have also been) nonetheless. Felt very season finale-ish, so it'll be interesting to see how the rest of the season's action rounds out. The only contrived bits were those last two scenes at the end with Chuck and Axe feeling the effects of their Machiavellian scheming - they felt forced and somewhat out of character - but otherwise, it was a pretty incredible showing. I am only halfway through the last episode so I might yet miss a real nail in the coffin, but the vibes I get from the (great) show and especially the last episodes is that all those critical scenes were like 3 cards on the table but one not yet turned: there can be plausible additions to every scene that can turn everything around - Chuck meeting Spyros in the park and they agree on he leaks the info and riles up Bobby really good and push him into a move, Havey with Dake can easily be expanded to "this is what you report back to Chuck so we can gently caress him", etc. I do enjoy the thought of Bobby and Chuck joining forces and becoming the Mad Kings of New York or some such nonetheless. Edit: Wendys show of affection for Chuck when he produced the sample could easily have been "I didn't expect you would pull off that double bluff so well!". dogboy fucked around with this message at 20:24 on May 7, 2018 |
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May 7, 2018 20:22
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I didn't expect a nail factory crashing into a coffin factory. 
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May 7, 2018 20:52
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I hadn't thought of them going to the "This is what was actually happening" well again after they did in the last few episodes of last season, but it's certainly possible. I think Chuck was over too much of a barrel to throw screwing Axe over on top of everything else, and I don't think Wendy would have gone for it. There's certainly room to wonder with Chuck and Wendy being all "you ready to do this? Think he expects it?" but I think it's more likely that this was damage control more than plans within plans on either side. Wendy might have been running her own side plan, that's about all I can picture, and since she took steps into the muck here I can imagine her trying to advance her own agenda, but so far she hasn't really had one beyond "keep me out of prison" and "help Chuck or Axe." I didn't think the ending shots of Chuck and Axe were particularly out of character personally. Chuck's done tons of shady stuff, but he's always been able to tell himself that it's in service of getting the bad guys and Axe in particular. Remember earlier in the season he was super pissed that the AG wanted to go after a guy who almost got killed in prison by a guard and killed one in self defense. There the "facts" that were on the surface pointed to one thing and he read it another way, and hated how that whole situation shook down. Now he's the one manufacturing new facts and a new narrative, just like the prison guards and warden did, and putting a guy in jail who doesn't belong there and once again the AG is all for it. I totally buy both Wendy and Chuck being super drained after all that. Axe's reaction I took as being similarly overwhelmed and just finally letting his brain shut down completely after he's been trying to play out all sorts of angles to stay out of jail and to save Wendy. It's also a sign that he isn't going to be able to just shrug this latest stuff off immediately like he has moved past a lot of stuff before. He's lost his wife as a support system, Wags' method of support has been plainly shown to be "live it up, spend lots of money, have super fun experiences" which I think is ringing hollow to Axe since he's a man with everything already, and if he wanted to be living life the Wags way he would be, and Wendy is nowhere near as available to him as a therapist as she has been in the past, and he might be feeling guilty or not want to see her after he came within a hair of getting her locked up for years. There's a lot to unpack and read into a short little shot there, but that was my takeaway from it.
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May 8, 2018 01:34
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I've only seen a handful of early episodes and all of this season - was it ever teased that Wendy and Axe would hook up? According to the terms of Wendy and Chuck's open relationship, would Wendy even have to disclose such a relationship with Chuck?
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May 8, 2018 02:27
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EugeneJ posted:I've only seen a handful of early episodes and all of this season - was it ever teased that Wendy and Axe would hook up? Not that I can remember, quite the opposite in fact.
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May 8, 2018 05:41
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EugeneJ posted:I've only seen a handful of early episodes and all of this season - was it ever teased that Wendy and Axe would hook up? Axe's wife seemed jealous of Wendy's close relationship with Axe, and there is a scene where Wendy walks naked into a hot tub while Axe watches, but it's oddly enough never really played off like there's a sexual element to their relationship. I think Wendy and Chuck are Open as long as both parties know they're hooking up with someone, there's a scene where Chuck goes see his S&M mistress without Wendy's permission and the mistress is like "wtf are you doing, get out of here." They definitely aren't down for either one of them sleeping around without the other's knowledge, so she'd have to disclose, and Axe is the last person on earth Chuck would want to see her with to be sure.
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May 8, 2018 06:16
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Axe and Wendy seems like an obvious couple given how close they are, but I like that the show has never gone in that direction.
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May 8, 2018 07:05
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Show mostly sucks without chuck and axe trying to destroy each other. Hopefully the alliance is short lived.
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May 8, 2018 08:02
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FuriousxGeorge posted:Show mostly sucks without chuck and axe trying to destroy each other. Hopefully the alliance is short lived. Axe vs Chuck is the central premise of the whole show - but they can't go at each other full throttle all the time, otherwise you can't fill 4+ seasons worth of drama with the story before it becomes stale.
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May 8, 2018 08:09
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GaussianCopula posted:Axe vs Chuck is the central premise of the whole show - but they can't go at each other full throttle all the time, otherwise you can't fill 4+ seasons worth of drama with the story before it becomes stale. I agree, the two actors are what makes the show so good, whether they are currently fighting each other doesn’t really matter to me. And the show could use a break from that storyline. Oasx fucked around with this message at 11:36 on May 9, 2018 |
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May 8, 2018 09:28
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Yeah, the team-up smackdown was wild to watch after both had been hemmed in so completely, and I expect it'll last to the end of the season at most before they're out to get each other again. It wouldn't surprise me if Axe uses this brief truce of sorts to really go after Chuck and mess up his life in what he thinks will minimize damage to Wendy, with the political career being an obvious target. The guy really likes his revenge after all. I predict a big change in Connerty's character too since there's no way he's willing to work at Southern for long at all under Chuck, that bridge is just too burned even if Chuck acts like he'll forgive it all. I think he might end up taking Axe's old offer of working for him and use that position to both mess with Chuck and try to get dirt on Axe first hand, which will be so, SO hard for him to do but I figure he thinks he'll find some kind of tiny breadcrumb that could lead him to something, and then down the line next season or so Connerty and Chuck get the team back together to try to get Axe. Maybe it's not all that, and I'd be totally open for Connerty to put up a front like he's done with both Chuck and Axe and start working at a private practice firm or something while keeping his conspiracy whiteboard at home and biding his time (maybe bringing Dake on board to help him). Still looking forward to seeing Connerty back in Chuck's office for a scene though, oh I can already smell the baked ham of Giamatti in that scene and it smells so good.
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May 9, 2018 05:15
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If you liked watching them engineer Connerty's complete public humiliation you like different things than me. Chuck is a vile scumbag traitor collaborator cockroach, the single only redeeming quality he had was Axe is actually a worse person. But at this point the idea of Chuck with political power over an entire state is much scarier than the idea of Axe with ill-gotten "gently caress you" money. Who are we supposed to root for at this point? Taylor and Mafee? They're the same as Axe, just still a little tiny bit squeamish about it.
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May 9, 2018 06:22
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I like seeing complicated characters and good acting, even when they're morally bad or outright evil. I enjoyed the Heisenberg ride on Breaking Bad for the same reason. Connerty's definitely who you root for if you want a purely good guy to win. Mafee has a charming innocence to him and Taylor isn't the same as Axe in my view, though they are getting there over time. Until last week's episode I'd say you could root for Wendy, so I do agree that the list is getting shorter over time and may well only be Connerty by the end, but I don't think the show can resist corrupting even him by having him do at least one majorly bad thing to nail Chuck or Axe, he's been talented enough so far that their sleaziness is really all that's keeping them a step ahead, although recently it was more the compliance officer going full Le Carre than him being super good at his job.
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May 9, 2018 07:28
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It feels like Taylor doesn't like how the others resort to being unethical or outright illegal the moment the pressure is on.
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May 9, 2018 07:33
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The ortolans scene was illuminating. "When eating, the French covered their heads to hide their shame" "  is shame LOL let's have some more"FuriousxGeorge posted:If you liked watching them engineer Connerty's complete public humiliation you like different things than me. Chuck is a vile scumbag traitor collaborator cockroach, the single only redeeming quality he had was Axe is actually a worse person. But at this point the idea of Chuck with political power over an entire state is much scarier than the idea of Axe with ill-gotten "gently caress you" money. Let's not forget omniscient Wendy and her Sexus Ex Machina maneuvering. All 3 of them belong behind bars but will carry on as the show's protagonists. We need a Carrie Mathison or Jack Bauer to take down this cabal LOL. MiddleOne posted:It feels like Taylor doesn't like how the others resort to being unethical or outright illegal the moment the pressure is on. It would be an interesting turn if she's the one to blow the whistle on the shenanigans but I don't see that happening and Taylor puts the odds of this at 56.7846 to 1 against. Need to adjust the parameters and re-run the scenario. Binary Logic fucked around with this message at 16:57 on May 13, 2018 |
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May 13, 2018 16:35
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Wendy makes a great "Humanized Lady Macbeth". Such a brilliant character. Its fitting that we'll get to see Chuck go up against the AG (and surely Jack Foley). I wonder if the Axe-Krakow angle is going to coincide with Chuck's potential involvement with high government. Vernacular fucked around with this message at 09:07 on May 14, 2018 |
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May 14, 2018 08:55
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And this is the point where I realize last weeks episode wasn't the season finale. EDIT: Taylor is going to murder Axe. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 10:11 on May 14, 2018 |
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May 14, 2018 09:01
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I thought they'd make it more explicit that Chuck's changed his long-game plan to becoming AG instead of governor, but I guess that's just the leap of logic I'm jumping to. I'm not so sure that's where his mind's at right now though, given that if it was his plan it seems like it'd be a good idea to clue his dad and Foley in to it to get their help to do it, unless he's going to cut all ties to be his own man once he's got it and have to fight them along the way. Wendy's definitely getting her Macbeth on by showing that she pushed Chuck toward not running for Governor in large part because Foley and Chuck's dad started screwing with her, and I think it made sense that she'd react like that after she just had a big scare, it's kind of like a PTSD reaction to war trauma and now she has the equivalent of a car backfire in that it's a way lower threat to her but she still felt threatened and immediately was like "Axe I'm gonna need your fixer" so she has that cooking well before Chuck's also getting pressure from the Judge to stay at Southern. Overall I hope we aren't just reading too much into Chuck wanting to become AG since it seems like a real fun road to see him try to pursue, and I'm open to the show really getting absurd and seeing Chuck practically rigging an election House of Cards style just to wrap up an AG appointment from the new president. How this episode shook down puts even more fuel on the fire of a "Chuck and Axe are ruined, Wendy stands tall" ending, but I want to see them both continue to reach beyond their grasp and be ruined by their own ambitions, alongside their hatred for one another.
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May 14, 2018 17:23
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I could be imagining it, but I thought there might have been a mention of the AG during Chuck's conversation with Wendy where she talked him out of running for governor. Either way, it seems like the obvious path for the rest of the season. They've already set up some tension between Chuck and the AG. And I'm just not sure what the rest-of-season arc would be otherwise, unless they decide to just pit Chuck against Jack. Vernacular fucked around with this message at 17:39 on May 14, 2018 |
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May 14, 2018 17:35
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No that does sound right to me, but I kind of had "Chuck's gunning for AG" planted in my head from reading the thread before watching the episode, and then him not telling anybody, even Wendy, that was what he was going to do surprised me. You do need to have Chuck keep gunning for something bigger and scheming away independent of his schemes to get Axe or other bad guys, so I do still think AG is the office he's going to gun for, especially with how much they've shown the current AG ordering him around. On the other hand, I think by necessity you need to either bring in a properly fictional president for him to work under after the 2020 election or have him be willing to sleaze his way into the good graces of the current administration, and I doubt the show is willing to wade into all that beyond making a few references to Trump and having an AG that's looser on SEC regulations and tough on immigration. On the other hand, if you have Chuck content to be New York state AG, well that seems properly attainable, still seems like it'd have a lot of influence, and you can avoid all those presidential shenanigans altogether. After this episode I think it's safe to say that they aren't willing to pull the trigger on getting Chuck out of southern anytime soon, since creatively if they were going to that was the time, so I guess on the other other hand if they want him to stay in charge there for a few more years that would line up more with trying to lock up that top AG job, plus we've seen so many people from Chuck's shady deals and tactics come back this season I'm sure they'd love to dig into all that history with the U.S. AG as well. I guess they're probably saving the reveal of his career intentions for the finale, and I also predict that Axe's wife literally takes all the money and runs with the kids off to like, England, or one of the kids does something real hosed up like really beat up some other kid or bring a gun to school or something, there's gotta be some payoff there to that messed up family dynamic, and Axe needs to pay a price for being a bad dad. NowonSA fucked around with this message at 17:50 on May 14, 2018 |
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May 14, 2018 17:43
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I'm glad they're moving away from the Governorship postion for Chuck. It never quite felt like a move he was right for as despite his willingness to collude to take other's down; he's ultimately the one taking them down and letting them know it. Humanized Lady MacBeth is a pretty good description for Wendy, though she's not getting behind Chuck in terms of general ambition; that is, it's a bit hard to see where she's benefiting from his success as obviously she's not want for money, status, and she doesn't toss her weight around as we saw Lara do. I wish Maggie Siff was a bit better of an actress because she comes off really flat sometimes and in this show with Giamatti and Lewis practically eating the wall paper every scene it's pretty noticeable. Great character though. I'm glad there's less Lara too. Her character felt very tacked on in the earlier seasons; like she was just to be extra drama for Axe. I like Akerman but the character of Axe is better and now that she's helped establish Wendy's role, we don't really need her(or Axe's kids). I'm curious where this is all leading as it feels like the last two episodes wrapped up everything that the previous season set in motion as plots. I don't really look forward to seeing Chuck vs. Foley but I do like the build towards Axe vs. Taylor.
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May 14, 2018 17:56
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Things can get rough without nukes and the universe dying, sometimes you just need a few good actors talking to each other and ooohf. Really great writing, too: keep it tense personally while de-escalating globally.
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May 14, 2018 23:39
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I can’t help but wonder if Spyros had seen the writing on the wall with AxeCap and reached out to his former employer, the SEC. This “magic backdoor to investigations” poo poo feels like a trap. Lure Dollar Bill and Axe into trading on MNPI and then bang him. Get a high paying stable job back with the SEC in return where nobody crashes into your Porsche. It would be an absolutely wild oversight to allow a former Commission employee to retain that investigation system access.
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May 15, 2018 01:32
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Vernacular posted:Wendy makes a great "Humanized Lady Macbeth". Such a brilliant character. But she has no guilt, really, which is Lady Macbeth's only connection to humanity. She's guiltless total psychopath Lady Macbeth.
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May 15, 2018 02:37
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anyone else think at first that Chuck's dad being at the bondage place was some weird poo poo that Wendy set up "I'm going to whip you while your dad tells you what a failure you are"
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May 15, 2018 02:53
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Wamsutta posted:I can’t help but wonder if Spyros had seen the writing on the wall with AxeCap and reached out to his former employer, the SEC. This “magic backdoor to investigations” poo poo feels like a trap. Lure Dollar Bill and Axe into trading on MNPI and then bang him. Get a high paying stable job back with the SEC in return where nobody crashes into your Porsche. It would be an absolutely wild oversight to allow a former Commission employee to retain that investigation system access. I will never stop laughing if after all the poo poo Chuck's done to try to get Axe loving Spyros of all people brings him down with a SEC insider info trap out of spite because Axe canned him. Axe getting right back into bad insider trading habits like this Natural Gas thing is a really bad idea, and I'd really enjoy seeing him in hot water right away again as punishment for his own stupidity. I really have to give the guy playing Spyros credit, and the writers behind him, because holy poo poo he's become an amazingly cringey character in the best way, and he manages to top himself in just about every episode he's in. EugeneJ posted:anyone else think at first that Chuck's dad being at the bondage place was some weird poo poo that Wendy set up Nah, that'd be way too insane. I did for a second think she was going to do some kind of messed up sexual mind-game with Chuck Sr. at the end there though.
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May 15, 2018 06:08
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FuriousxGeorge posted:But she has no guilt, really, which is Lady Macbeth's only connection to humanity. I don't think that's quite true. Her interactions with Chuck (including not being up to some post-scheming BDSM celebration) illustrated guilt on both sides. She's clearly affected by what she did to Mafee, to the point of her ability to work being compromised. Maybe she goes Full Lady Macbeth after the Axe pep talk, but the writers have gone to great lengths to keep her (and Chuck) humanized these last few episodes. Its definitely complicated though, which is the whole point. Also, thank you thank thank thank you writers for listening to the focus groups (probably) and keeping Lara Axelrod's involvement to the bare minimum. Wamsutta posted:I can’t help but wonder if Spyros had seen the writing on the wall with AxeCap and reached out to his former employer, the SEC. This “magic backdoor to investigations” poo poo feels like a trap. Lure Dollar Bill and Axe into trading on MNPI and then bang him. Get a high paying stable job back with the SEC in return where nobody crashes into your Porsche. It would be an absolutely wild oversight to allow a former Commission employee to retain that investigation system access. That's a pretty good point, but I could just as easily buy that Spyros is acting out of desperation to please Axe and co. Still, Spyros taking down Axe (and Chuck somehow for that matter) would be irony of the highest and most delicious order. Vernacular fucked around with this message at 06:55 on May 15, 2018 |
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May 15, 2018 06:47
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I didn't mind Axe's wife much in past seasons, but I do agree that it feels like she's been in it the right amount this season, with the focus being on how she's still focused on money and holding grudges against Axe and Wendy instead of her kids, and on how Axe is a real lovely father. I'm sad that the show hasn't really set us up for Giamatti and Lewis chewing down a set together like they ended the past two seasons, but you never know. I still think there's hope that Chuck makes his deal with the devil with Axe instead, and that's they could have a scene together at the end of this season setting that up. Blackjack is definitely throwing a huge counterpunch at Chuck, so I expect handling that to be the big thing going in to the season finale.
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May 15, 2018 08:05
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Couldn't Axe just throw all his ex-wife's money in Sears stock, go "oops", and then take full custody of his kids back when she's broke? Keeping her money with Axe seems like a bad idea
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May 15, 2018 10:58
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EugeneJ posted:Couldn't Axe just throw all his ex-wife's money in Sears stock, go "oops", and then take full custody of his kids back when she's broke? She invested in the AxeCapital funds - unless Axe is willing to let them as a whole go under, including his own money and that of his other clients, to spite his ex-wife, it wouldn't work. Not to mention the fact that he could get sued gross malpractice because he has to do some risk managing.
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May 15, 2018 11:18
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