|
Watching this part of the LP is going to be fun because this is about where I'm at in the game. Side A with the story is nothing particularly new or difficult for me since I've been playing stuff like Jumper and what not from Matt Makes Games for a long while. Side B though, geez, I've occasionally had to look at videos to see how some sections are even done and still it requires a lot of tight execution. I've gotten a few of them done but there's still plenty to go.
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2018 20:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 2, 2024 08:26 |
|
|
   You might have noticed that this game as an awesome soundtrack. I almost feel bad for failing to link it. Well, here it is. Make sure to buy it if you're feeling these tunes. Or just listen to them on the page.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2018 20:52
|
|
|
I listed interpretations of the themes for the first seven levels earlier. Here's my much more wishy-washy interpretation of chapter 8: it's about Madeline learning to love herself, in her entirety (i.e. including Badeline). Symbolically, of course, we've been collecting hearts all this time; they're a symbol of love (Strawberries are also reasonably heart-shaped, for that matter). We also see the same platforms here that we saw before chapter 6, leading up to the time Madeline thought she had everything figured out, right before she fell. The implication (supported by the fact that here, it is literally impossible for her to fall because she just loops back to the top of the screen) is that this time she actually has figured herself out. She's at peace as a whole person, unseparable by the Mountain. This again does not necessarily mean that her depression is cured. It just means that her inner conflict has been resolved.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2018 22:38
|
|
|
Stepping off from the symbolism/depression chat for a second, while I really enjoyed the level design in all the previous levels this one I didn't really like. Before, I got a sense of the flow of each screen, and the number of things to keep track of was sometimes large, but never too much. Most of this entire stage was basically full of objects/mechanics everywhere, and it felt way too difficult to even keep track of vaguely what paths are available to you. I think it's all the moving fireballs/ice things. I assume this is because it's meant to be an end-game stage, but it felt like a challenge post-end-game stage to me. If I were playing, I'm fairly sure I would've stopped after a little bit of trying at this point (whereas I didn't feel this way about the rest of the stages).
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2018 23:22
|
|
|
Red Mike posted:I assume this is because it's meant to be an end-game stage, but it felt like a challenge post-end-game stage to me. If I were playing, I'm fairly sure I would've stopped after a little bit of trying at this point (whereas I didn't feel this way about the rest of the stages). It's clearly a form of post-game. We've already seen the credits after all.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2018 23:36
|
|
|
Yup, it's post game stuff. The thing is you're not really expected to get enough crystal hearts on your first playthrough to even enter it, if any. I didn't find a single one. I got in into The Core by playing the first four B-Sides and still felt it was really hard then when I first played it. I didn't even like it at the time. But it's since grown on me. It's a really fun level. You just need to get accustomed to the challenge it provides. I don't blame you for not really feeling the level. Because neither did I until I played the game more. I have 71 hours logged into steam at this point and I never thought I'd play a platformer for this long before Celeste. Just to give you some perspective on how long it took me. It was mostly casual play. The speedrun stuff I did makes up a fairly small part of that time.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2018 23:42
|
|
|
Oh, I stand corrected. I assumed post-game was B-sides, and this was just like an epilogue before you go into the post-game. I guess I can see it feeling way better when you've mastered the core game then, so you know exactly what to pay attention to at every point.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2018 00:04
|
|
|
Iggy, did you find everything via your own exploration, or did you use hints/spoilers?
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2018 00:13
|
|
|
Red Mike posted:Oh, I stand corrected. I assumed post-game was B-sides, and this was just like an epilogue before you go into the post-game. I guess I can see it feeling way better when you've mastered the core game then, so you know exactly what to pay attention to at every point. You can do B-sides at any time after you've unlocked them, so calling them the post-game isn't entirely correct. They're definitely a post-game level of challenge, though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2018 00:17
|
|
|
TooMuchAbstraction posted:I listed interpretations of the themes for the first seven levels earlier. Here's my much more wishy-washy interpretation of chapter 8: it's about Madeline learning to love herself, in her entirety (i.e. including Badeline). Symbolically, of course, we've been collecting hearts all this time; they're a symbol of love (Strawberries are also reasonably heart-shaped, for that matter). We also see the same platforms here that we saw before chapter 6, leading up to the time Madeline thought she had everything figured out, right before she fell. The implication (supported by the fact that here, it is literally impossible for her to fall because she just loops back to the top of the screen) is that this time she actually has figured herself out. She's at peace as a whole person, unseparable by the Mountain. That seems like a pretty good read to me. The way I see the Core, Madeline returned to the mountain looking for more enlightenment and guidance, and ultimately found that it had nothing left to teach her. It's just empty in there, but calm and peaceful. Just reflecting her inner harmony. I'd imagine there's a ton of different ways to read what the Core really means, though; it's very open-ended and vague. I'd love to hear what other people think. I quite like your read of the hearts as symbols of self-love too. I'd been trying to figure out what they might represent, especially as Madeline is specifically shown holding one in the closing splash. Worth noting that if you go to the Core without four hearts and can't pass the barrier, then on your way back you can talk to Granny who will tell you that you still have more to learn from the mountain before it will let you in. Like all these extra challenges, the blue heart puzzles and the B-sides, are more struggles for Madeline toward learning to love herself and overcome her problems, even if they aren't part of the explicit plot. When I first played this chapter I assumed it would be similar to the Running Hell level in Cave Story and things like that; ie a level outside the main plot that shows you what the real deal behind the setting is. But I guess not, the mountain just remains a mysterious place of healing and introspection. On top of that, I'd seen a screenshot of one of the levels in it on the Steam store page, the one with the rings of fireballs circling the upper exit. To my mind that wasn't familiar with the game yet it looked like a boss fight, so I kept going through this level expecting some sort of battle in the end with some sort of mountain spirit or something? Considering how positive the mountain had been in the story I was worried this was going to be some sort of Undertale-style "you couldn't leave your happy ending alone, now look what you've done, you've ruined it" thing. I'm glad I was wrong.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2018 00:33
|
|
|
Waltzing Along posted:Iggy, did you find everything via your own exploration, or did you use hints/spoilers? I found all the Strawberries and B-Sides myself. But I did need help with some of the Crystal Hearts. I didn't get the ones in 5A, 6A and 7A on my own. Knew how to get 7A, but didn't wanna spend too much time exploring and didn't make the connection between the colored gems and the birds in Chapter 1 for the 6A B-Side.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2018 00:33
|
|
|
There's one really nice touch that differentiates the fireballs on this level from the dust bunnies in the Celestial Resort. When you run into one of the dust bunnies, its eyes open wide and it stops until the screen gets refreshed. When you run into one of the fireballs, it gets knocked slightly out of its path, but it then moves back and continues what it was doing before. And the difference makes sense, because the dust bunnies are a manifestation of Mr. Oshiro's thoughts, so they care about or at least notice other people, but the fireballs are part of the mountain and aren't really concerned with what happens to Madeline. (Also, the Celestial Resort is named such because it's both a heavenly place to stay and on Mt. Celeste. I don't want to admit how long it took me to notice that.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2018 01:23
|
|
|
   All right! Time for the B-Sides! Kid gloves are off, let's get to work.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2018 01:18
|
|
|
The B side for the hotel feels almost like it would fit into a Phantasy Star game. That's not a bad thing, for me, at least.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2018 05:25
|
|
|
Just the B-Side tracks are pretty neat, but I really like how meditative the conclusion of the Heart of the Mountain is. ...and the start of it too, to be honest. That was an interesting recap of the time between.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2018 06:52
|
|
|
Like the gameplay, fun to watch.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2018 08:40
|
|
|
Sever the Skyline is hands down my favorite track in the game. It perfectly conveys the "Kid gloves are off" ambiance of the B-Sides.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2018 10:50
|
|
|
I appreciate that the hotel B-side has a room whose sole purpose is for you to bust open the ceiling again so you can piss off Oshiro. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2018 15:31
|
|
|
MachuPikacchu posted:Sever the Skyline is hands down my favorite track in the game. It perfectly conveys the "Kid gloves are off" ambiance of the B-Sides. Sever the Skyline is a great intro to the B-sides. Personally my favourite is split between Good Karma and Say Goodbye later on. Really, the sheer energy in the Good Karma remix is all that kept me going through 3B! I don't know many of the remix artists, but Black Moonrise was remixed by Ben Prunty, who wrote the music for FTL and Into The Breach. The guitar work in particular is very reminiscent of ITB's soundtrack.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2018 18:27
|
|
|
All the remixes are great, and that was a very good thing for me given how much time I spent listening to them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2018 00:20
|
|
|
Someone's just posted in the Games thread that Theo posted new pics to his
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2018 02:48
|
|
|
Haha, it's kind of weird to see Madeline not dressed for mountain climbing. Cute though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2018 08:11
|
|
|
IGgy IGsen posted:Someone's just posted in the Games thread that Theo posted new pics to his Why is her hair not pink?
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2018 11:08
|
|
|
Dzhay posted:Why is her hair not pink? She's not on the mountain.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2018 13:10
|
|
|
Pretty sure Theo and Badeline are banging.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2018 20:40
|
|
|
This one is the best one of the lot, hands down.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2018 06:51
|
|
|
 More B-Side. If you wanna hear about Celeste's Music from the composer Lena Raine herself check out this podcast. IGgy IGsen fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Apr 28, 2018 |
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 13:32
|
|
|
There's something extremely Disasterpiece about the Golden Ridge B-side remix.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 14:22
|
|
|
God, that temple B-side room where you have to lure an eyeball monster into destroying blocks for you, then hop off it and dash to the next block, took me for-freakin'-ever. It's a good thing the music was so downtempo smooth or else I might have gotten irritated.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 16:22
|
|
|
I feel like the mirror temple's music is deliberately riffing on the dungeon themes from A Link to the Past just a little bit. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it reminds me of that game's sound (smooth jazz version excepted). Maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there, but it'd fit thematically too given that A Link to the Past involves dark dimensions reached through mirrors and rescuing people trapped inside crystals. EDIT: Oh, and keys and non-linear dungeons?
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 18:31
|
|
|
I can't believe Theo broke Madeline's heart after all they went through! I'm really torn on the Golden Feather mix. The first half of it is great, but once it's built up to the point where all the instrument lines are playing together it goes on for like two minutes too long. It feels like a barrage of noise, it's not pleasant. But the building up part works really well. 6B might be my least favourite in the game. It really, really suffers from not being able to look ahead and make a plan. Most of the rooms are huge and most of them don't give you binoculars to see what's coming up. It gets even worse in the Badeline fight parts since you don't know where she's going to move to. So I ended up making a little progress, seeing a new section of the screen, and trying to plan how to navigate it in the half-second or so before I die from not having the correct response already planned. The worst one to me was the room where you use the feather to circle around Badeline and hit switches. There's several routes around you can take, but the time in the feather is just barely too short for most of them - especially if you're controlling it with a keyboard and not an analog stick - and you can't even plan the route properly until you've progressed enough to see all the points Badeline moves to and in what order. There are harder rooms in the game, but this one above all others frustrated me the most. Luckily it gets a lot better about that from here. Tenebrais fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Apr 28, 2018 |
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 18:51
|
|
|
Having to split-second react after hitting Badeline and the glitch-effect marring the screen is frankly unfair.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 21:07
|
|
|
Lazy Bear posted:Having to split-second react after hitting Badeline and the glitch-effect marring the screen is frankly unfair. Mm, I don't remember the "react after hitting Badeline" parts being that unreasonable. You do need to pay attention and anticipate, but the game is pretty good about setting up only one way in which it would make sense for Madeline to get thrown. The falling and switch-hitting sections are worse IMO; as mentioned, you can't look ahead, so you have to gradually build up a strategy on the basis of seeing the screen for a half-second and then dying.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 21:16
|
|
|
The ruuuuuughblughblughblugh sound is so good always.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2018 00:40
|
|
|
Explosions posted:The ruuuuuughblughblughblugh sound is so good always.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2018 00:54
|
|
|
I don't know what their proper name is but I think of them as grumpy blocks. The noise they make comes second only to the sound of passing through the dream blocks. That part in 2B where you go through one that's some three screens wide is just a joy to hear.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2018 00:57
|
|
|
It actually makes sense that you would tend to die more often at the last part of a room. After all, you get more practice passing the earlier parts.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2018 01:38
|
|
|
The B-side music for the Temple reminds me so much of Donkey Kong Country's Aquatic Ambiance. I can't be the only one right?
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2018 04:56
|
|
|
... Oh god, we've gotten to the point where even you can't make these look easy any more. Bloody hell, this game is not messing around. I've struggled through roughly the first half of Reflection's B-side and I think I might've reached the point where I have to get off this ride. Especially after having watched you do the rest of it and seeing how much more brutal it gets. These have been getting steadily more frustrating and less fun for me and I just can't do it any more. (Amusingly, the room where I stopped is one you said you thought looked more intimidating at first than it actually is, the last one before the Badeline-fog starts appearing. Then again, you say that a lot...) Looking forward to seeing the rest of the postgame with you, since I doubt I'll see it myself. Still, it's been quite a journey and I'm not sorry you convinced me to play the game. Speaking of the music and hearing other things in it... I kept thinking I was hearing bits and pieces of the Face Shrine music from Zelda: Link's Awakening in one of the songs. It was either in Mirror Temple or Reflection (both of which would be appropriate places to have it, I think), but which one it was isn't coming back to me now. And, of course, this could be entirely coincidence, I don't have the greatest ear for music and could easily be misinterpreting something.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2018 07:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 2, 2024 08:26 |
|
|
Explopyro posted:I've struggled through roughly the first half of Reflection's B-side and I think I might've reached the point where I have to get off this ride. Especially after having watched you do the rest of it and seeing how much more brutal it gets. These have been getting steadily more frustrating and less fun for me and I just can't do it any more. (Amusingly, the room where I stopped is one you said you thought looked more intimidating at first than it actually is, the last one before the Badeline-fog starts appearing. Then again, you say that a lot...) For me, that was the single toughest room in 6B. The tentacles part is kind of annoying because you have to memorize the screens, but it's not hard, and the Badeline fight is nowhere near as difficult as you think it is when you're watching someone else play it. You have to decide what's fun for you, but if you can make it through this one part, the rest of the level isn't as bad.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2018 19:57
|
|