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SomeJazzyRat posted:Any particularly weird, or any absurdly improbable, claims? A woman who's handgun "accidentally" went off (at point blank directly into a man's temple). The aforementioned blind guy in a trash compactor was some insane poo poo because there was multiple 3rd parties that should have been like "uh, dude?" but instead took the "eh, he probably knows what he's doing" approach. I heard at a trade event about an electrical concrete curing contractor that had a guy step onto the wet slab right before they threw the charge and the guy didn't just fall over dead, he straight up exploded. One of my favorites is a claim where a woman cut her hand on an exploding champagne bottle and it wasn't her that was suing, it was her husband for "loss of consortium" from the hand injury :bigtran: I'll think about more at work. Twelve Batmans posted:Seen anything interesting/able you're to discuss from Disney? Disney self-insures their first $20 million (It might be $10m, I might be mis-remembering). I doubt they've ever had a claim report to insurance, even the kid getting chomped by the gator is going to settle well under their self-insured retention. A lot of big, brand-reputation heavy companies do this so they have complete control over settlements and legal counsel.
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Mar 28, 2018 13:00
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13Pandora13 posted:
Ohh yeah that's the good poo poo. I've never heard of electrical concrete curing.
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Mar 28, 2018 13:36
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13Pandora13 posted:Disney self-insures their first $20 million (It might be $10m, I might be mis-remembering). These are basically made up numbers to me. What does $10/$20m of self-insurance mean in terms of magnitude of incident? like, one death is obviously below that (apparently,) but, like, if a teacup became unhinged and flung all four people into a wall, do you think that’d trip over it? A Lion gets too close to a safari vehicle and mauls a dozen people? Less a Disney specific question and more a question about how much a human life is worth, I suppose.
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Mar 28, 2018 13:58
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OP is like the JK Simmons Farmer's insurance commercials
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Mar 28, 2018 14:07
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Boxman posted:Less a Disney specific question and more a question about how much a human life is worth, I suppose.
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Mar 28, 2018 16:19
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How often do you handle cases of severely debilitating injuries or deaths that never show up in the news? I'm always curious how often these things happen without showing up in local media
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Mar 28, 2018 16:44
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This probably isn't in your field exactly, but what do you know about malpractice injuries from chiropractors? I've heard several stories about people getting paralyzed or killed from "adjustments" to the cervical spine that accidentally sever the vertebral artery. Apparently it's difficult to gather statistics on this because the settlements are covered by NDAs.
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Mar 28, 2018 17:43
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13Pandora13 posted:A woman who's handgun "accidentally" went off (at point blank directly into a man's temple). Oh we had one of those in Canada recently, a white guy fired a "warning shot" with a pistol into the air and there was a "hangfire" that resulted in the bullet actually leaving the gun when it was not pointed up in the air, but rather at the head of an indigenous man. Whoops, right?
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Mar 28, 2018 17:53
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Boxman posted:These are basically made up numbers to me. What does $10/$20m of self-insurance mean in terms of magnitude of incident? like, one death is obviously below that (apparently,) but, like, if a teacup became unhinged and flung all four people into a wall, do you think that’d trip over it? A Lion gets too close to a safari vehicle and mauls a dozen people? John Smith posted:Between 7 to 9 million, per the US Federal agencies for value of life assessment. Statistically, death is cheaper than dismemberment (because ongoing medical care in the US is a loving nightmare). It really depends on the age of the deceased and how they go - something really horrifying like a public decapitation a la Schlitterbahn would probably settle in the $5-10m range (though that is actually a really interesting case, because technically an insurance policy doesn't pay out for illegal activity - my guess is that the policy will still pay to the family but theowner is SOL as far as defense costs). Infant strangulations from mini blind cords are usually around a million. Back before the CPSC banned and recalled the traditional drop side cribs there was a few internal decapitations of infants, those are generally a couple mil. Most of the adult fatalities I see are in the $500k-$2m range, the younger you are the higher the number (especially if you're young and have kids). A teacup shearing off and injuring and killing multiple parties will almost certainly blow through a $20m SIR if most of the injured are children and the injuries are bad. Something that permanently removes you from the work force (traumatic brain injury with forced amputations) can settle for $10-20m alone for just that claimant. Some states are "worse" than others from a claims standpoint. An injury claim that involves a fall from height/dropped object from height in New York will crush $40m easily even if the injuries are relatively minor because of the insane action-over laws. A lot of insurance carriers won't write a risk in the state that has installation, construction, etc. exposures accordingly. Flavahbeast posted:How often do you handle cases of severely debilitating injuries or deaths that never show up in the news? I'm always curious how often these things happen without showing up in local media Most of what I see doesn't hit the news (outside of maybe a local paper) unless it involves a minor, a famous person, or multiple claimants. Not to get too political but immigrant workers get mauled to gently caress and back by industrial machinery (often because their boss removes safety features, doesn't do lock-outs for maintenance, simply doesn't do maintenance, etc. so they can work faster and then the company tries to allege the equipment was faulty so they don't get bitchslapped on their workers comp and with OSHA fines) and the news does not give a single poo poo. Killing Loaf posted:This probably isn't in your field exactly, but what do you know about malpractice injuries from chiropractors? I've heard several stories about people getting paralyzed or killed from "adjustments" to the cervical spine that accidentally sever the vertebral artery. Apparently it's difficult to gather statistics on this because the settlements are covered by NDAs. Doctors, med spas, chiropractors, etc. go into Healthcare specific divisions because it's so specialized coverage wise, so I don't really see it. A lot of big payouts end up with NDAs stacked on top so the insured can protect their reputation and keep working. 13Pandora13 fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Mar 29, 2018 |
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Mar 29, 2018 01:26
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13Pandora13 posted:Statistically, death is cheaper than dismemberment (because ongoing medical care in the US is a loving nightmare). It really depends on the age of the deceased and how they go - something really horrifying like a public decapitation a la Schlitterbahn would probably settle in the $5-10m range (though that is actually a really interesting case, because technically an insurance policy doesn't pay out for illegal activity - my guess is that the policy will still pay to the family but theowner is SOL as far as defense costs). Infant strangulations from mini blind cords are usually around a million. Back before the CPSC banned and recalled the traditional drop side cribs there was a few internal decapitations of infants, those are generally a couple mil. Most of the adult fatalities I see are in the $500k-$2m range, the younger you are the higher the number (especially if you're young and have kids). That NDA bit is particularly scary because it basically means there may be people practicing who you wouldn’t want to be seen by and would never know about otherwise. But I guess without it they’d be screwed job wise.
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Mar 29, 2018 02:08
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Ruggan posted:That NDA bit is particularly scary because it basically means there may be people practicing who you wouldn’t want to be seen by and would never know about otherwise. But I guess without it they’d be screwed job wise. NDAs don't stop things from going to boards. People get their license yanked, get fined and formally censured, etc. And it 100% still shows up in your insurance claims history - after a point nobody is going to insure someone with major uncorrected claims issues. Doctors don't stay in business long without malpractice insurance, especially if they're poo poo doctors. I rejected an account at one point because there was cascading loss issues on one particular product and when I asked what the deal was, the client insistent there was nothing wrong with their product and the consumer was just using it wrong. If the consumer can use something wrong the same way multiple times, that's still a failure of your product. It took another two years for CPSC to force a recall.
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Mar 29, 2018 02:35
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13Pandora13 posted:they're generally "good write" accounts that are only in E&S because standard market squeamish thinking about the possible loss scenarios. I'm curious -- what are some other kinds of "good write" accounts like this that aren't big risks but end up falling to you anyway? Any stuff that's actually safer than the public perception, or is the world deathtraps all the way down?
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Mar 29, 2018 04:53
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Thank you for this thread; it is awesome. e: How do you do the math? I mean, assuming it's an unusual/unique risk, how do you decide what to charge?
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Mar 29, 2018 05:13
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Antivehicular posted:I'm curious -- what are some other kinds of "good write" accounts like this that aren't big risks but end up falling to you anyway? Any stuff that's actually safer than the public perception, or is the world deathtraps all the way down? Manufacturers of eLiquids are super clean writes. You get a TON of losses on retail and online selling of devices/batteries but the plain liquid manufacturers are really clean, you get the occasional copyright infringement when a company gets a bit too cute with their labeling but most of those you'd go out the door with an exclusion for intellectual property due to logo infringement. Tobacco products are the same way - all insurance for tobacco doesn't include cancer/smoking disease claim coverage. *Not that I'm saying eCigs are "safer" than tobacco,* there simply hasn't been enough long-term studies to know that at this point, but from an insurance standpoint they're "good writes." Hell, even the devices are decent writes if you can exclude a few specific brands of batteries. LG has explicitly labeled their products as unsuitable to use in eCigs since July 2017 and people still sell them, it's batshit, they simply aren't made for that kind of repeat cycling and physical abuse. Arsenic Lupin posted:Thank you for this thread; it is awesome. Thanks! There's a standardized rating plan that all standard market carriers use, and in E&S we still have access to - ISO rates. They're our "jumping off" point and after that it's experience - almost nothing I quote goes out with the ISO rating. If there's claim history, that factors in - generally you want to price a risk so that, if you'd written it for the last 5 years, the account would have made profit in at least 3 of those years. There's also a bunch of stuff that doesn't even have an approximate ISO rate, like hoverboards. That's 100% judgement based rating. You've basically got to learn how to predict the future, it's not just anticipating how something will likely fail, but how someone will make it fail. 13Pandora13 fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Mar 29, 2018 |
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Mar 29, 2018 13:10
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Unexpectedly interesting thread, thanks!13Pandora13 posted:Things like that suck because none of the manufacturers (the boat, the water skiing equipment, the life vest, etc.) had anything to do the loss happening, it was 100% human error, but a lot of times insurance pays out to make families whole. Whose particular insurer(s) would pay out in a situation like that, and how is it determined?
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Mar 29, 2018 21:08
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13Pandora13 posted:even the kid getting chomped by the gator is going to settle well under their self-insured retention well under, since the parents of the kid decided not to sue and instead started a fund for childrens organ transplant  13Pandora13 posted:Some states are "worse" than others from a claims standpoint. An injury claim that involves a fall from height/dropped object from height in New York will crush $40m easily even if the injuries are relatively minor because of the insane action-over laws. A lot of insurance carriers won't write a risk in the state that has installation, construction, etc. exposures accordingly. weird, I had to look up what that was and it seems very strange that it makes costs spiral so high in some cases it seems totally stupid (suing a private homeowner over an unsafe workplace when the homeowner has nothing to do with how the work is being done), but I can see other places where it would be totally appropriate (heavy or industrial construction, building skyscrapers where there's multiple layers of responsibility) am I at all close to why the law is in place?
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Mar 29, 2018 23:15
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Extremely Penetrated posted:Unexpectedly interesting thread, thanks! First on the line will the boat owner's liability policy, but depending on limits, exclusions, etc. that policy may not pay, or only pay very little, then the family's lawyer will look for a deep pocket - could be the line manufacturer ("failure to warn" if the packaging didn't explicitly warn about being mindful of wide turns), the owner of the dock or property if it's on a private lake (for failure to have reflective discs on the end of the dock), the life vest manufacturer if drowning is a secondary contributing cause of death after blunt force impact trauma if he didn't die instantly, etc. Even if you end up paying nothing on the claim, the defense costs to prove you didn't contribute to the death can be hundreds of thousands of dollars. I'm at a wedding this weekend so there may be longer delays in my replies, but please keep the questions coming! I really enjoy my work and people aren't actually interested very often.
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Mar 29, 2018 23:22
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Klyith posted:weird, I had to look up what that was and it seems very strange that it makes costs spiral so high The law was genuinely well-intentioned to keep contractors from using immigrants as disposable labor, which was a huge problem in the boroughs, along with large numbers of passer-by injuries from poorly maintained scaffolding. Unfortunately, it was written too broadly and the lawyer lobby in the five boroughs is insanely powerful so it's not going be fixed any time soon.
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Mar 29, 2018 23:26
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13Pandora13 posted:I'm at a wedding this weekend so there may be longer delays in my replies, but please keep the questions coming! I really enjoy my work and people aren't actually interested very often. I don't see why not; I'm finding all of this fascinating. Thanks for making the thread! 
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Mar 30, 2018 01:16
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Any situations/liabilities that you thought you knew more about that surprised you after you settled into the job? Things you would have thought are more dangerous that aren't, and vice versa?
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Mar 30, 2018 01:24
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13Pandora13 posted:I heard at a trade event about an electrical concrete curing contractor that had a guy step onto the wet slab right before they threw the charge and the guy didn't just fall over dead, he straight up exploded. Nice
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Mar 30, 2018 02:51
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So how do you see insurance for self driving cars (both privately owned and/or fleet operated) going in the next X years?
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Mar 30, 2018 02:55
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How many levels, or layers of insurance underwriters are there? Like, there'll be consumer level insurance company's, and then there'll be companies that insure the insurance companies and so on and so on until you get to one big massive insurance company that insures everyone else. I think I read something like that in The Big Short(?)
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Mar 30, 2018 07:50
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13Pandora13 posted:Not to get too political but immigrant workers get mauled to gently caress and back by industrial machinery (often because their boss removes safety features, doesn't do lock-outs for maintenance, simply doesn't do maintenance, etc. so they can work faster and then the company tries to allege the equipment was faulty so they don't get bitchslapped on their workers comp and with OSHA fines) and the news does not give a single poo poo. I don't want to get political either. Immigrant workers get sliced-and-diced on the job. Major lacerations, serious head injuries, etc. Working in kitchens, or landscaping, building, etc. Like, circular saw through the forearm severing artery. Hand in industrial grade food processor. Running chainsaw dropped on foot. Yeah, none of that will have a news story. But, it's pretty wild poo poo.
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Mar 31, 2018 07:39
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Nice thread 👍🏻
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Mar 31, 2018 17:39
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fzA455 posted:I don't want to get political either. Immigrant workers get sliced-and-diced on the job. Major lacerations, serious head injuries, etc. Working in kitchens, or landscaping, building, etc. Like, circular saw through the forearm severing artery. Hand in industrial grade food processor. Running chainsaw dropped on foot. Yeah, none of that will have a news story. But, it's pretty wild poo poo. or get their nervous system turned to mush by exotic new diseases https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/06/hormel-spam-pig-brains-disease/ speaking of brains being turned into mush, what's the insurance market with sports like these days? are schools and colleges talking out insurance against the possibility of being sued for CTE?
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Mar 31, 2018 18:09
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13Pandora13 posted:
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Mar 31, 2018 22:16
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sunken fleet posted:I've worked with bailers - they seem pretty safe... how did you even manage to get "forcefully amputated"? Isn't there like a safety grate and an emergency stop button? Most industrial equipment is pretty safe when you use all the safety mechanisms as designed. When you attempt to bypass or modify the safety devices, that's where things like forceful amputations will happen.
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Mar 31, 2018 22:38
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Adlai Stevenson posted:Any situations/liabilities that you thought you knew more about that surprised you after you settled into the job? Things you would have thought are more dangerous that aren't, and vice versa? Besides finding out office chairs are death traps, escalators. I mean, we've all seen/heard of horror stories about people getting hosed up by escalators in China but I'd always assumes elevators are more hazardous. Escalators are much, much worse and oddly, escalator safety hadn't gotten much better in decades until the Crocs company (and their insurance) basically forced manufacturers to improve their products as part of the settlements they were reaching on all the dismemberment claims. That happens more often than you'd think, "the market will correct itself" is really only true once insurance companies start to force corrections. Other than that, it takes a government agency forcing recalls and minimum manufacturing guidelines. Frinkahedron posted:So how do you see insurance for self driving cars (both privately owned and/or fleet operated) going in the next X years? It's going to be a rough few years, no matter the circumstances of an accident any self-driving vehicle accident will immediately call into question the programming and defense alone, expert testimony, etc. will cost a fortune. Self-driving vehicles (and semi-autonomous functions like shot stop braking) make vehicles safer but human over-reliance (like this rear end in a top hat) will gently caress that up as well. A few decades down the road when autonomous is a mandated feature on new cars (and make no mistake, eventually it will be) I think road accidents and fatalities will decrease, just like the additions of safety belts, side view mirrors, etc. has. Automatic Retard posted:How many levels, or layers of insurance underwriters are there? We're not quite as house of cards-y as mortgage insurance, there's a lot of reinsurance markets for casualty and property risks and most medium to large companies have multiple reinsurers for different parts of their book. Not exactly what you;re asking, but this reminded me about a weird thing about E&S: it has an unusual structure, not only do I not work directly with clients/insureds, I don't work directly with agents most of the time (though some E&S carriers do), I work with brokers. So, say you're starting a company reselling exercise equipment on Amazon, including resistance bands and door frame pull up bars (two high loss product types). Amazon tells you they require you to have insurance for your products with a $1 million per occurrence, $2m aggregate limits naming them as an additionally insured vendor of your goods. You go to your Allstate/State Farm/etc. agent who tells you that they cannot insured your business, but that they will "take it to market" and find a carrier. Your agent then contacts a broker, who sends your submission to a few, possibly even dozens, of standard market specialty and E&S carriers. That's when I get it. It sounds needlessly convoluted but E&S underwriters are...special. I don't want to say we're all  but we don't speak in language clients can understand. Plus E&S is nonadmitted forms so basically no E&S underwriters are licensed agents. Brokers serve as a buffer layer, they scrub out the accounts that can stay standard so I don't have to waste my time.Klyith posted:speaking of brains being turned into mush, what's the insurance market with sports like these days? are schools and colleges talking out insurance against the possibility of being sued for CTE? CTE is, and has been for some time, a pretty universally excluded claim item on most (if not all) impact sport helmet manufacturers and sporting association liability (for football, lacrosse, hockey, and with growing frequency soccer). It's another one of those "insurance is ahead of regulation" things. It is shocking to me how people still defend the NFL and say poo poo about how "safety" is making it a less manly sport. Most of the people dealing with the milder effects of CTE aren't even former pro players, they're former high school and college athletes. sunken fleet posted:I've worked with bailers - they seem pretty safe... how did you even manage to get "forcefully amputated"? Isn't there like a safety grate and an emergency stop button? Deadwing is pretty spot on, most of the claims I see are related to modified equipment or intentionally bypassed safety measures (like not completing a lock out procedure to do basic maintenance to save time).
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Apr 2, 2018 00:34
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13Pandora13 posted:Besides finding out office chairs are death traps, escalators. I mean, we've all seen/heard of horror stories about people getting hosed up by escalators in China but I'd always assumes elevators are more hazardous. Escalators are much, much worse and oddly, escalator safety hadn't gotten much better in decades until the Crocs company (and their insurance) basically forced manufacturers to improve their products as part of the settlements they were reaching on all the dismemberment claims. That happens more often than you'd think, "the market will correct itself" is really only true once insurance companies start to force corrections. Other than that, it takes a government agency forcing recalls and minimum manufacturing guidelines. I think a couple weeks ago here some kid got his foot broken when his Croc-like shoe was rubbing up against the edge of the escalator and got pulled in to be crushed between the step and the railing/wall.
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Apr 2, 2018 03:56
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13Pandora13 posted:Deadwing is pretty spot on, most of the claims I see are related to modified equipment or intentionally bypassed safety measures (like not completing a lock out procedure to do basic maintenance to save time). I imagine you don't pay out if they've modified safety equipment or protocols, so how much of your's or a coworker's job is determining if they tried to go back and hide the fact they removed a blade guard or somehow followed a lockout and still have a dead employee anyway? I imagine it's not that easy to hide but I've worked for enough sketchy dudes who pulled that poo poo and just got lucky they didn't maim anyone that I'm sure they're constantly trying to. And sort of related, is obfuscating your fault in an accident going to rise to the same kind of criminal penalties as intentionally setting your bar on fire for the insurance money?
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Apr 2, 2018 21:12
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Dogmeat posted:I imagine you don't pay out if they've modified safety equipment or protocols, so how much of your's or a coworker's job is determining if they tried to go back and hide the fact they removed a blade guard or somehow followed a lockout and still have a dead employee anyway? I imagine it's not that easy to hide but I've worked for enough sketchy dudes who pulled that poo poo and just got lucky they didn't maim anyone that I'm sure they're constantly trying to. You'd be surprised. Things like failure to explicitly label that guards are not to be removed, making it too easy for a guard to be removed, deadman switches that are too easily overridden, etc. can all be determined to be contributing to the cause of a loss. So, even if a company's worker's comp policy responds to the loss, a court may determine that they can subrogate back a percentage to the device manufacturer (or that the worker is entitled to direct compensation from the manufacturer in addition to any worker's comp payout). It's very situation dependent, every claim is going to be dependent on the circumstances of the loss, jurisdiction, etc. From an underwriting standpoint we look at the details of a claim and determine how likely we think it is to happen again. Some things are in a jurisdictional hellhole (like...basically any suit in West Virginia is not going to go in the favor of a large business, it's the nature of the legal climate) and we consider that during the process. Some claims are just so loving nuts there's nearly 0 chance it'll happen again. Some things (like balers) it's just a matter of time - it doesn't matter how safe your product is, it WILL be misused, it WILL be operated past recommended maintenance schedules, and managers WILL cut safety corners in the name of speed. It sucks a lot. Trampolines are lovely on losses for this exact reason, no matter what warnings you have, how well you produce each part, etc. kids are going to do dumb poo poo on them and drunk adults are going to do even dumber poo poo on them. It's unavoidable. As far as obfuscation, if you're a claimant and you do it at minimum you'd face getting bitchslapped with court costs and it's entirely possible you can face civil or criminal penalties, or depending on how big of a fuss you made in the suit, open yourself up to a countersuit (this happens a lot in intellectual property claims). If you're a defendant and you try to hide poo poo from your insurance carrier in most states it outright voids your policy and in some states, it's a misdemeanor or felony. It's not a smart thing to do either way, a fraud conviction wrecks your ability to run businesses, get jobs, etc. basically forever regardless of if you actually have to pay any fines (or do time).
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Apr 3, 2018 00:07
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Good poo poo, OP. What about mandolines? I've seen them cover many kitchen floors with blood.
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Apr 3, 2018 08:24
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Matlack Radio posted:Good poo poo, OP. Chefs working as instructed and per spec. Without the blood can you even call it haute cuisine?
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Apr 3, 2018 12:18
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Matlack Radio posted:Good poo poo, OP. They do have claims but most kitchen tool manufacturers will stay standard market (they're not generally big claims, $10k max but generally closer to a couple grand). Notable exceptions are Chinese manufacturers with little prior marketplace experience, any company with a recall or highly publicized class action suit, and companies also making higher hazard kitchen tools (eg pressure cookers, fryers, etc.). For *most* people slicing their fingat once is enough and they don't keep slicing so the claims aren't typically too severe, just however much getting stitches at the ER runs up, plus maybe a little loss of income if they're actually a chef.
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Apr 3, 2018 12:50
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What's the priciest quote you're heard of (whether accepted out not), and any stories about people that paid big premiums but were denied a payout due to their own stupidity? A story that always makes me laugh is the one where a bitcoin exchange thought they were covered against losses when they were hacked (or "hacked"), but their insurance policy only covered physical theft and bitcoins don't exist physically at all https://www.coindesk.com/bitpay-sues-insurer-after-losing-1-8-million-in-phishing-attack/
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Apr 4, 2018 02:24
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Sentient Data posted:What's the priciest quote you're heard of (whether accepted out not), and any stories about people that paid big premiums but were denied a payout due to their own stupidity? There's things that get quoted (and bound) near $1m on the underlying $1m occurrence/$2m agg policy just because they need it to be able to purchase Excess limits. Tower crane operators in NYC probably pay close to $500k. My personal largest quote was about $685k, and my largest single account that actually purchased the coverage was I think like $400k. Usually if you're forking over that kind of premium you have things like a risk management team in place to make sure your ducks are in a row as much as possible. For high limit policies ($10m/10m underlying, $20m excess over 1/2, etc.) that number can climb. The underlying layer is, generally speaking, the most expensive even if the excess layer(s) are higher limits just because by its nature it's responding to every claim (until the limits are blown) whereas a claim reporting to an XC layer means something has gone terribly wrong. Blown limits are, thankfully, pretty rare on casualty policies - property sees them more often, but they put up limits in an entirely different structure. Though the park operator, construction firm, and raft manufacturer in the Schlitterbahn incident all paid out to the family in the civil suit, since the park operators/owners committed fraud in ASTM assessments, materially misrepresented claim frequency, committed intentional negligence in a criminal capacity, etc. it's likely their policy probably doesn't have to pay dick on defense or indemnity on a criminal trial (though it would have paid/did pay on the civil suit). Theft of digital currency is only coverable under very specific circumstances and it's very expensive - like it's an explicit exclusion on a basic theft property policy and it is very clear. Even when it's included I can't imagine a single carrier is going to insure more than a few hundred thousand due to the untraceable nature of most digital currencies, there's no change you'll get any recovery. Dumb as hell.
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Apr 4, 2018 03:02
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Never trusted the Chinese e-cig companies, as I use an e-cig right now. What's working with them like? I can't imagine they give a poo poo. I can get into the whole regulated vs unregulated device and hitting batteries less hard, but, blah... (basically "an e-cig exploded" is some idiot with a loose battery with keys/change etc in their pocket causing a short, not an actual device exploding, 99.9% of the time...) And you said some special events. Wrestling?? Vape conventions? Please tell me Psychopathic has some kind of awesome policy for Gathering of the Juggalos. Thank You.
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Apr 4, 2018 03:50
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13Pandora13 posted:Countless bailing machinery accounts with forceful amputations. Hay, paper, or metal?  I work with balers (as we call them) that have taken plenty of fingers and hands over the last 40 years. I've watched the one in the foreground tear apart 80mm bolts like they were made out of putty. E: Sorry, meant to ask if you had any interesting stories along the lines of balers like the ones I work with. The one on the left has caught fire before and still bears the scortch marks, for example. EE: I also completely overlooked someone asking on this very page. 
Fermented Tinal fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Apr 4, 2018 |
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Apr 4, 2018 18:06
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13Pandora13 posted:Though the park operator, construction firm, and raft manufacturer in the Schlitterbahn incident all paid out to the family in the civil suit, since the park operators/owners committed fraud in ASTM assessments, materially misrepresented claim frequency, committed intentional negligence in a criminal capacity, etc. it's likely their policy probably doesn't have to pay dick on defense or indemnity on a criminal trial (though it would have paid/did pay on the civil suit). Can/will the insurance company go after the Schlitterbahn owners to recover the costs they did cover? I assume they're completely broke but it seems logical that the owners would be liable since their negligence caused everything.
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Apr 4, 2018 18:20
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