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This thread needs Alyssa Edwards, “what the gently caress is going on in here on this day?”
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Apr 3, 2018 15:13
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Kazoo Reverb posted:The implication is that if you were kidnapped and ripped from everything you knew as a child, immediately after your only parent died, and you had one object to remember them by, you would value it more than if it were just a random-rear end Sony Walkman. Explaining why the character is a manchild does not make it any less funny that he's a manchild. The movies base several jokes on how absurd his connection to the Walkman is, even if there is an emotional context to it. Just consider the phrasing of the line: "You shouldn't have killed my mom and squished my Walkman." (This is followed by Chris Pratt punching Kurt Russell in the face with a Hulk Hand to the tune of Fleetwood Mac) It's impossible to take a line with the word "squish" in it seriously. And Chris Pratt, the man who's made a career out of playing funny manchildren, delivers it in his most indignant voice. It's the best joke in the franchise. Ready Player One (the movie) doesn't have anything as good. e: Moreover, it's odd to demand sympathy for the character of Star-Lord being sad, when he's portrayed as a callous career criminal and killer. Bottom Liner posted:Empathy is a hard concept for psychopaths to grasp, just sayin. I have purged myself of all human sentiments, which is why I vote Tory. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Apr 3, 2018 |
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Apr 3, 2018 15:25
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Career killer? poo poo i didn't know he was a hitman. Im done, if you don't want to understand sentimental value of objects, beep away my dude
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Apr 3, 2018 15:44
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You do realize that you're defending intense emotional attachment to childhood mementos in the Ready Player One thread, rightKazoo Reverb posted:Career killer? poo poo i didn't know he was a hitman. Star-Lord kills two people and tries to kill a third so that he can escape and sell what he thinks is a trinket. Also he worked for decades with a bunch of kidnappers, pirates, and cannibals. It's the kind of sociopathy people mock Ready Player one for. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Apr 3, 2018 |
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Apr 3, 2018 15:49
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:You do realize that you're defending intense emotional attachment to childhood mementos in the Ready Player One thread, right Yeah it turned out that that book sold millions of copies, hit all the best seller lists and got translated to 20 languages before getting a movie deal. Despite being a really poorly written book specifically because nostalgia is a thing that is important to people and you can't tough guy away the fact it is important to people with some ideal that it shouldn't be important to people because it's beep boop illogical.
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Apr 3, 2018 15:57
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Also the "childhood mementos" in RPO aren't attached to dead parents, another detail that flies over heads apparently
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Apr 3, 2018 16:04
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The real reason Ready Player One fails is that there are not enough dead parents for characters to feel sad over through mementos. Owlofcreamcheese posted:Yeah it turned out that that book sold millions of copies, hit all the best seller lists and got translated to 20 languages before getting a movie deal. Despite being a really poorly written book specifically because nostalgia is a thing that is important to people and you can't tough guy away the fact it is important to people with some ideal that it shouldn't be important to people because it's beep boop illogical. You're making an appeal to popularity to argue that not taking a line like this seriously makes one a robot. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Apr 3, 2018 |
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Apr 3, 2018 16:09
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:His was different than everyone else's. His was better than everyone's but since he wasn't a true gamer every aspect that made his better came to backfire on him. Like his had top of the line immersive visuals and that tricked him it was real, his had top of the line security and it meant he needed to write passwords on sticky notes and his had top of the line penis haptics and that let him get kicked in the dick. I don't think anyone else's VR worked like his did. If people were walking around outside then they could see somehow that is just not mentioned. The film does a rotation around the goggles as Wade puts them on – it's also in the trailer, linked in the first post of the thread – and we get to see what he sees.  There's no view of the outside world. BravestOfTheLamps posted:You're making an appeal to popularity to argue that not taking a line like this seriously makes one a robot. Yeah, seriously. It's a decently funny line. Y'all calling someone a robot for actually getting the joke.
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Apr 3, 2018 16:47
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General Dog posted:I'm sure he'll zig where we expect him to zag, but this is maybe the SMGest movie 
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Apr 3, 2018 16:57
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“You squished my Walkman” is the most powerful expression of grief and loss.
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Apr 3, 2018 17:08
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Goddamnit, who said his name three times?
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Apr 3, 2018 17:11
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that one dude said "man child" a lot
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Apr 3, 2018 17:18
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Movie was an OK popcorn flick, with a few cringe worthy moments of people listing off pop culture, and stakes that never felt super important. I did however like all the moments that showed how absurd this all was. Trailer park dirt bag complaining he sunk all his money into powerups, or people running around in the streets to the sort of confused looks of the security lady. My favorite instance though was the TJ Miller character. I did enjoy that you had this stereotypical evil henchman assassin badass muscle in the movie, but he's not a badass assassin, hes xXx_Snyp3r_420_xXx a poopsocker sitting in a basement eating drone delivered pizza hut, who probably never gets out and has neck problems. Even by the end he's not faced with death, or prison, he's just a dude upset his warcraft character is getting wiped. I guess among all the big drama and people treating the end like Normandy beaches, it was enjoyable seeing this person who basically showed what a joke what was going on really was.
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Apr 3, 2018 17:20
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Who balanced the OASIS? How often was their balance patch schedule? These are the burning questions 
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Apr 3, 2018 17:43
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Sir Kodiak posted:There's no view of the outside world. I mean, the vive exists right now and it doesn't show your room at all times but has a camera and will show a peek of the room if you press the home button twice and can be set to show a weird sci-fi tron photoshop picture of what the camera sees if you are about to hit the preset boundary. It seems reasonable to think it just works like some 40 years better version of that. The movie in general didn't give us a lot of details on the exact UI of the thing, and you are able to play with just a vr headset and gloves, an omni treadmill, some sort of rope suspension thing and a big chair with hand orbs and they all seem to be pretty different in how you are moving, but the movie just showed us the ingame footage and ignored specifics. It never really showed any controls or UI or anything.
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Apr 3, 2018 18:32
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I mean, the vive exists right now and it doesn't show your room at all times but has a camera and will show a peek of the room if you press the home button twice and can be set to show a weird sci-fi tron photoshop picture of what the camera sees if you are about to hit the preset boundary. It seems reasonable to think it just works like some 40 years better version of that. Yeah, I know, I've used it. I was responding to the idea that it was semi-transparent, such that you would be simultaneously viewing the outside world and the VR while actively playing a game. The actual answer for how people can run around outside and still play the game is that the movie doesn't give a poo poo about being accurate in that regard. You can come up with technical features that might explain it – even if they're in no way supported by the movie – but that still won't cover stuff like, why, when Mechagodzilla crushes a bunch of IOI avatars in the virtual world, the shot of the real world shows IOI players in the same impact pattern being shunted out of the game. The point is to communicate the relationship between what happens in the virtual world and the real one, even if the actual translation between the two would never be so spatially direct. Which, whatever, it's a movie trying to tell a story visually. But trying to justify all the stuff via the diegetic technology is a dead end.
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Apr 3, 2018 18:45
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Sir Kodiak posted:
Lamps is a robot for not understanding how empathy works.
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Apr 3, 2018 19:07
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Sir Kodiak posted:The actual answer for how people can run around outside and still play the game is that the movie doesn't give a poo poo about being accurate in that regard. You can come up with technical features that might explain it – even if they're in no way supported by the movie – but that still won't cover stuff like, why, when Mechagodzilla crushes a bunch of IOI avatars in the virtual world, the shot of the real world shows IOI players in the same impact pattern being shunted out of the game. The point is to communicate the relationship between what happens in the virtual world and the real one, even if the actual translation between the two would never be so spatially direct. Which, whatever, it's a movie trying to tell a story visually. But trying to justify all the stuff via the diegetic technology is a dead end. Yeah but like, it's not like it takes a 50 page fanfiction to just say "hey, the 2045 vr helmet has a camera like the vive from 2016 has so people can see out when needed but not all the time" or "sixers are told to movie in formation in the game when fighting big battles"
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Apr 3, 2018 19:11
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Yeah but like, it's not like it takes a 50 page fanfiction to just say "hey, the 2045 vr helmet has a camera like the vive from 2016 has so people can see out when needed but not all the time" or "sixers are told to movie in formation in the game when fighting big battles" Nobody uses the Vive camera when they're simultaneously controlling the game, that's not what it's for. And the latter is absolutely inane and in no way consistent with how the virtual world is presented. Just an absolutely bizarre attempt to not accept that some things in movies are there to guide the audience's comprehension of events. CelticPredator posted:Lamps is a robot for not understanding how empathy works. All yinz could be robots for all I know, but in this case some people obviously didn't get that the line in question was funny.
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Apr 3, 2018 19:20
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CelticPredator posted:Lamps is a robot for not understanding how empathy works. On the contrary, I am being the exact opposite of robotic. The complaint is that by not sympathizing with the character of Star-Lord when he expresses fury over his squished Walkman, I am proving incapable of empathy. But you have to remember that Star-Lord is a self-pitying murderous manchild. Why would anyone sympathize with his loss of a memento, except involuntarily due to the charm and vulnerability of his performance? The real robotic action is to automatically sympathize with Star-Lord's Walkman-related fury. By denying sympathy and considering the whole context of the Walkman squishing, I'm throwing a wrench in the works. Also, the line is funny.
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Apr 3, 2018 19:27
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That line is funny but there’s an emotional core to it. It’s the “who keeps things to remember people what is human what is life” poo poo that unnerves and annoys the hell out of me.
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Apr 3, 2018 19:30
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:On the contrary, I am being the exact opposite of robotic. The complaint is that by not sympathizing with the character of Star-Lord when he expresses fury over his squished Walkman, I am proving incapable of empathy. Beep boop empathy.exe failed to load
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Apr 3, 2018 19:32
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Sir Kodiak posted:Nobody uses the Vive camera when they're simultaneously controlling the game, that's not what it's for. Go into steam, turn on "Use Camera for Chaperone Bounds." and it will show a stylized picture from the camera that fades in as you get towards the boundaries of the play area. Just assume everyone uses an advanced version of that when they walk down the street and that everyone is very trusting that it works very well and always shows them right away if they are too close to something.
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Apr 3, 2018 19:52
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Go into steam, turn on "Use Camera for Chaperone Bounds." and it will show a stylized picture from the camera that fades in as you get towards the boundaries of the play area. Just assume everyone uses an advanced version of that when they walk down the street and that everyone is very trusting that it works very well and always shows them right away if they are too close to something. The reason this is dumb is not because it's impossible to safely walk down a sidewalk, but that it is ridiculous to control a video game wherein, despite the battle taking place on an open field, you're using a control interface that restricts you to a very limited subset of the game space that happens to overlap with safe areas to walk in the real world.
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Apr 3, 2018 19:57
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In regards to that walkman post but then they do that joke with a Zune or whatever and man that was so funny to me it kind of overpowers the emotional bit. Zunes are just really loving funny. That's one where I get the complaint that its hard to take serious scenes seriously because MCU films like to throw jokes in afterwards. I like that to be honest but I know plenty of folks don't. I know what I want from a MCU film and it's basically what you get.
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Apr 3, 2018 20:00
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Sir Kodiak posted:The reason this is dumb is not because it's impossible to safely walk down a sidewalk, but that it is ridiculous to control a video game wherein, despite the battle taking place on an open field, you're using a control interface that restricts you to a very limited subset of the game space that happens to overlap with safe areas to walk in the real world. A wizard did it. CelticPredator posted:That line is funny but there’s an emotional core to it. It’s the “who keeps things to remember people what is human what is life” poo poo that unnerves and annoys the hell out of me. Bottom Liner posted:Beep boop empathy.exe failed to load No one is saying that having mementos is stupid. The humour isn't that the character has a memento, it's that the character played by Christ Pratt, the master of manchild roles, furiously declares that his Walkman being "squished" was like losing his mother all over again. Then punches his father with a Hulk hand. The character also kills people because he wants to live out a fantasy life modeled after Han Solo and (explicitly) Indiana Jones. But it's really important to feel sorry for him, you see. That people find it really important to empathize with him, to the point of declaring naysayers inhuman for mocking his loss of a Walkman, is the really weird part. One might draw conclusion is that people have internalized the movie's ideology and fully identify with the murderous manchild Star-Lord and his struggles, like someone treating Zapp Brannigan completely seriously. With Ready Player One you simply have a franchise that's less successful in persuading audiences to do the same. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Apr 3, 2018 |
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Apr 3, 2018 20:00
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Sir Kodiak posted:The reason this is dumb is not because it's impossible to safely walk down a sidewalk, but that it is ridiculous to control a video game wherein, despite the battle taking place on an open field, you're using a control interface that restricts you to a very limited subset of the game space that happens to overlap with safe areas to walk in the real world. It's dumb to write fan manuals on how fictional technology works but it always seems like if a movie presents something as not having a problem then you can just assume they solved it some how and if you can think of a simple answer on how they might of solved it then just assume it was that instead of worrying about it. Just assume everyone uses movement controls that mix in hand or eye tracking controls and that people in the street are sometimes walking in step with their avatar and sometimes need to turn in real life but leave their game body walking in a different direction or something and that everyone has done it enough times no one has a hard time with it anymore.
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Apr 3, 2018 20:17
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Mine was actually because he was apparently equating having an emotional attachment to an object to being a manchild, but I guess this dude thinks Starlord is Jason Voorhees or some poo poo too so I'm tapping out
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Apr 3, 2018 20:18
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Kazoo Reverb posted:Mine was actually because he was apparently equating having an emotional attachment to an object to being a manchild, but I guess this dude thinks Starlord is Jason Voorhees or some poo poo too so I'm tapping out Star-Lord's character is that he's a manchild criminal who wants to be a space hero. He kills people to accomplish this. This isn't some wacky misinterpretation, it's a basic description of his character. MCU Wiki posted:Peter Quill is naturally upbeat and sarcastic and is known for looking on the bright side. It seems that his 1980s pop culture-laden references his life on Earth. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Apr 3, 2018 |
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Apr 3, 2018 20:23
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the walkman line (whoops, "squish" not "smash") isn't the only part of guardians 2 that reinforces that nostalgia substituting emotion idea but it is the purest crystallization of it. peter comes to terms with his real dad being a scumbag galactic lothario and accepts yondu as the person who really raised him and demonstrates his growth as a character by...eulogizing yondu with explicit comparisons to david hasselhoff. you could argue the movie is about personal growth beyond nostalgia and pop cultural artifacts but it's kind of contradicted by what peter says and does throughout the movie and especially in the coda.
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Apr 3, 2018 20:27
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not to mention what the movie itself does — and this circles back to ready player one — attempting to have its cake and eat it too by wrapping the audience in a warm blanket of empty references while telling them to go outside
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Apr 3, 2018 20:33
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R. Guyovich posted:not to mention what the movie itself does — and this circles back to ready player one — attempting to have its cake and eat it too by wrapping the audience in a warm blanket of empty references while telling them to go outside I feel like Guardians does a better job of having heart that can be contextualized without the pop culture trappings whereas RPO, to me, feels more hollow in the way that you're describing.
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Apr 3, 2018 20:55
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R. Guyovich posted:not to mention what the movie itself does — and this circles back to ready player one — attempting to have its cake and eat it too by wrapping the audience in a warm blanket of empty references while telling them to go outside Not really. Ready Player One's pop culture obsession isn't rooted in emotion or a sense of loss. It's rooted in either "I like this thing. It makes me happy" or "I need to like thing to win money". (Maybe except for Artmis in the film) But Guardians, it's Peter's defense mechanism for dealing with his emotions. This is super super super clear with the very first scene in the very first movie. He uses pop culture to drown out the horror's of life or to numb the effects. This makes him a character who's afraid of being fully sincere and it affects his ability to connect properly with people because every time he's able to sincerely connect with someone, it's taken away from him, either by death, or by being an evil monster. His whole speech to Gamora about what kind of TV show they'd be in is a perfect look into the awfulness of his personality. But it's an awfulness that's been created due to his removal from earth during his formative years. The end of Guardians Vol 2 doesn't say you should put down the walkman and go outside. It embraces the idea that you can use pop culture to sincerely connect with your world. Peter doesn't call Yondu, Hasslehoff because he's trying to hide his emotions. He also doesn't listen to Father and Son to drown out the world. He actively lets them in.
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Apr 3, 2018 21:21
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:It's dumb to write fan manuals on how fictional technology works but it always seems like if a movie presents something as not having a problem then you can just assume they solved it some how and if you can think of a simple answer on how they might of solved it then just assume it was that instead of worrying about it. The thing is, if the movie were to actually show us that, it would have meaning to the story. If we were told that the Oasis does all the work of accommodating players that only have access to a sidewalk, then the movie is showing us a group of people, blind to the real world, protected in their ignorance by a godlike computer system. If we were told that the players are simultaneously viewing the VR and the city street, doing all the work themselves, it's a shot of people having mastered living in two worlds. By not telling us either, we're left with a little tension over those people's safety, and inventing fan-theory diegetic technological solutions to that which the movie could have shown us, but choose not to, is actively working against embracing and interpreting what the movie actually does show.
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Apr 3, 2018 21:25
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I think it's showing that those people are too poor to afford those treadmil thingy's. How Wade has one, I dunno.
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Apr 3, 2018 21:27
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CelticPredator posted:I think it's showing that those people are too poor to afford those treadmil thingy's. Right, that's a fair way of looking at it. We see shots of homeless people playing the game. We see people running down the sidewalk, blind to the world. They don't seem to be benefiting from the safety devices Wade has been using. If you're then like, "well, I'm sure the goggles have a bunch of features to make that totally safe, despite no evidence for them" you're not giving yourself the opportunity to take in the actual movie. Sir Kodiak fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Apr 3, 2018 |
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Apr 3, 2018 21:30
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Flesnolk posted:Nuke Finland. This would solve many of the internet's problems.
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Apr 3, 2018 21:36
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Sir Kodiak posted:The thing is, if the movie were to actually show us that, it would have meaning to the story. If we were told that the Oasis does all the work of accommodating players that only have access to a sidewalk, then the movie is showing us a group of people, blind to the real world, protected in their ignorance by a godlike computer system. If we were told that the players are simultaneously viewing the VR and the city street, doing all the work themselves, it's a shot of people having mastered living in two worlds. By not telling us either, we're left with a little tension over those people's safety, and inventing fan-theory diegetic technological solutions to that which the movie could have shown us, but choose not to, is actively working against embracing and interpreting what the movie actually does show. Yeah, but if the movie never mentions a thing being an issue you can just assume the fake movie technology doesn't have that problem instead of thinking there is some super secret story being told that is never mentioned. How do people walk while just wearing gloves? Movie never says. But it's better to assume the fictional technology figured it out rather than there being a secret plotline about it that never appears onscreen. How do people walk outside while wearing face covering goggles? Just fine apparently
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Apr 3, 2018 21:38
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CelticPredator posted:Not really. Ready Player One's pop culture obsession isn't rooted in emotion or a sense of loss. It's rooted in either "I like this thing. It makes me happy" or "I need to like thing to win money". (Maybe except for Artmis in the film) Ready Player One is about people escaping their horrible world into virtual reality. The reason you're missing this is that you are only concerned with the emotional lives of the characters for the purpose of "sympathizing," instead of examining them and their context. Thus you think that Star-Lord's problem is that he is too self-absorbed and insincere to connect with other people. But when you actually look at his character, his problem is that he's a manchild who wants to be Han Solo and kills people to accomplish his fantasy. Thus you frame Guardians of the Galaxy as a story about people getting better together, but omitting what they're getting better together for - it's for becoming more effective mercenaries and killers (this is why Dr. Melfi parted ways with Tony Soprano). This leads to your problem with Ready Player One: that the heroes' don't appreciate pop culture enough, on a personal/spiritual level, and are merely into it or because they're trying to better their lives ("I like this thing. It makes me happy" or "I need to like thing to win money"). Ready Player One doesn't do enough with its satire of escapism. Your praise for Guardians is that in contrasts offers successful escapism: your manchild hero gets to make friends and family while getting to enjoy pop culture "right," which distracts from the fact that no one has really become better people, just more successful killers. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Apr 3, 2018 |
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Apr 3, 2018 21:42
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Yeah, but if the movie never mentions a thing being an issue you can just assume the fake movie technology doesn't have that problem instead of thinking there is some super secret story being told that is never mentioned. There's a reasonable limit to this, and I think people running down the street with their eyes covered is beyond it. Presumably, if the guy who tried to jump out a window had actually made it out the window, you wouldn't assume that was also safe, even if we didn't see him actually slam into the pavement. And if you want to argue that the movie is showing what those people were doing is safe, the way to argue that is with things that actually appear in the movie, whether explanations of the technology, or how their actions are presented cinematically. At no point does theorycrafting about what a potential safety feature might look like improve a reading of the film.
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Apr 3, 2018 21:50
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