X-Wing 2.5: We are altering the rules. Pray we don't alter them any further.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > X-Wing 2.5: We are altering the rules. Pray we don't alter them any further.

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Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

EdBlackadder posted:

On the one hand, this all sounds like really great stuff. On the other hand, my wallet is crying already. Bottom line is I'm getting two more TIE Fighters.

I'm kind of eyeing this up and thinking that I've spent a fuckton on this game in the first place and don't really need to spend a fuckton more to keep playing with the stuff I already own. I'm also wondering if the timing is because they've basically run out of ships to make. Looks like X-Wing is going in the pile of games I used to play competitively but now hang onto "just in case". Ah well.

# ¿ May 1, 2018 22:45

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 19:28

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

AndyElusive posted:

How long until 2.0 becomes a bloated mess and we are calling for 3.0 or worse, pining for the days of 1.0?

It's an asymptotic scale. Once you break the second edition seal you start on a rapid downward path until 40k happens and you're trying to run three versions of the game at once with different rulesets for different markets.

# ¿ May 1, 2018 23:25

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

thespaceinvader posted:

The amount of people bitching about conversion kits is hilarious, especially when a lot of them were bitching about the lack of cards-only update kits for the X Wing not a month ago.

There's a big difference between card-only updates like they used to do for Wings of War which just added new pilots and planes, and card-only updates that replace existing options and are mandatory to continue playing competitively. This is probably the best way they could have done things, but TBH it's both not good and also kind of mandated by the design space they decided on way back when they first made the game. And you get to look forward to it happening again for 3rd edition when that turns up.

# ¿ May 2, 2018 00:02

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

canyoneer posted:

But I expect you'll want to re-buy the new releases as they get released anyway, because there will be new upgrades.

This is actually an arguement against even bothering with the conversion kits. All viable pilots will be in the core and new expansions, and if you're going to run multiple unique pilots you'll have the required parts in those purchases anyway. If you want multiple copies of the same generic in the same list then you're looking at problems. Making stuff day 1 playable is the only reason to get the conversions then.

ETA: I just noticed the expansions are priced at $19.99 too. When the conversion to euro happens that's likely to cost me �25 per in the FLGS via magic. I think that's gonna be the killer.

Arquinsiel fucked around with this message at 00:27 on May 2, 2018

# ¿ May 2, 2018 00:23

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

HidaO-Win posted:

I do LOL at the people freaking out over the cost, they have clearly never been involved in an edition change before. If you play only a single faction you’re paying basically 75 dollars for the new edition. That’s equivalent cost to a new RPG or Wargame core book. Don’t even try to compare it to changing editions in a CCG.

You've not played a wargame since 4th ed 40k have you?

# ¿ May 2, 2018 14:38

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

ConfusedUs posted:

In raw materials, yes, that's a reasonable price. But there's no way that pays for the time spent designing, testing, templating, making graphics, etc.

The raw material costs are pretty low. It's actually getting it all to you so you can put it in the box, checking that you put the correct amount of each thing in the box, packaging up boxes in a bigger box and shipping that box to shelves by X time that costs. Cardboard is crazy expensive to ship due to sheer weight, so I'd honestly be amazed if they could do it cheaper.

# ¿ May 2, 2018 18:59

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Set rotation caused riots back in the day of D&D skirmish, but that was way bigger deal in terms of meta investment and had other issues. With the app it'll be interesting to see what kind of system they implement for it.

# ¿ May 2, 2018 19:09

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

ro5s posted:

Yeah, but there's been no sign of Integrated Astromech, so it looks like that's gone for the extra hull.

It looks like a lot of the "no-brainer" upgrades have been integrated into the ships themselves. It's an interesting way to do things.

# ¿ May 2, 2018 19:40

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Smaller wave-specific update kits could actually work interestingly. Finding the right price point where they're still profitable is going to be tough though.

# ¿ May 2, 2018 22:20

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Raged posted:

Upgrade kits for every wave? Awww Hell yeah!

Anyone that is pissed at FFG for 2.0 just likes being pissed off.

Nah they're just at stage one of the four-stage nerd grief process, anger, with some people moving to stage two, bargaining.

# ¿ May 3, 2018 00:24

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

ConfusedUs posted:

Yep!

I really can't believe how generous this 2.0 conversion is.

I'm impressed at how they're drip-feeding out the things they are doing to make the transition painless. I've gone from "gently caress no" to "eh, it'll be doable with some thought" better than any game since FoW 2nd/3rd ed switchover.

Ringo Star Get posted:

For those that were around when X-Wing was first announced back in 2012, was that what this is like? Excitement over the rules and gameplay?

My exact thoughts were "I don't need a third version of these rules nobody but me cares about" so I didn't bother for ages.

# ¿ May 3, 2018 05:09

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Admiral Joeslop posted:

GW would outright get rid of existing models, change boxes to be more expensive while containing less product as they increased the amount you needed for a unit, and they sure as hell didn't offer a $50 kit that brings the majority of a faction up to speed. At least two Fantasy armies were never updated to 8th edition, and several others had to wait years before their update. Then of course they threw the whole thing out entirely.

Sure, if you want to reduce everything to (core book) and (faction book) updates, then yes they're exactly the same.

Did GW come to your house and steal your old toys? I'm asking because I've got poo poo lying around since the late 90's that's never even been assembled and if someone would get rid of it for me that'd be nice.

# ¿ May 3, 2018 20:36

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

There's a spring kit tournament on Sunday here and I am genuinely considering mashing together a lovely Starviper, Kihraxz and M3-A list just to fly ships that I bought for cards or to own the figure. I don't even own Most Wanted or Guns for Hire :v:

# ¿ May 4, 2018 01:55

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

ConfusedUs posted:

Guns for Hire lets you make a an actual Tier 2 list from that group. Something like Thweek, Talonbane, Serissu wouldn't be awful.

Yeah. I was sure I had picked it up when I was getting the newer Scum ships but somehow... didn't. I'll probably be boring and roll with a rebel pancake plus wingman as usual in the end.

Admiral Joeslop posted:

Could you point that out to me?

Admiral Joeslop posted:

Please, tell us more of the evils of GW and how it's even remotely similar to this.

Admiral Joeslop posted:

ClC you used to be a cool poster, don't be like this. Yes, expansions went up. You don't need to buy two expansions to fill the same amount of points as the previous edition.

If you don't like it that's fine, don't go accusing posters of sucking the FFG dick like GW whales did.

# ¿ May 4, 2018 02:41

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

canyoneer posted:

I was just thinking today that the day is coming soon when I label a box "X-WING 1E STUFF" and throw all the old pilot tokens, cards, dials, damage decks, and tokens in it. It will live in my closet for years.

This feels weird.

It'll take up space for years until you are moving or clearing out space and you get nostalgic and try it out again, once, then decide to hang onto it again just in case. Forever.

Admiral Joeslop posted:

Alright, so none of that involves making fun of someone for not being able to afford to play the game. You're being disingenuous and no one cares about this argument, so let's just give it up.

It's an eleven page thread, you haven't forgotten it already dude.

# ¿ May 4, 2018 02:59

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

It is a dumb arguement, but we're sort of in limbo until 2.0 drops so why not?

I had abandoned GW by 2012 for Flames of War. 3rd ed dropped late that year and you just turned up to the FLGS with your 2nd ed rulebook, they put a sticker in it, and you got a free copy of the small softback rules to use with the existing army lists. Nothing else changed. 4th ed dropped last year, same deal. Of course 4th ed was poo poo, so :rip:

# ¿ May 4, 2018 04:19

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Or at least in a nice tight circle around the obstacle cluster.

# ¿ May 4, 2018 06:22

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Upping the points to 200 allows for twice as much granularity too, which is a nice touch. Means we're not going to have the problem of upgrades that are too good to be 1 point but not good enough to be 2 points either being no brainer includes or wastes of points so much anymore.

# ¿ May 6, 2018 22:31

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

I suspect there will be charge juggling upgrades showing up sooner or later. Probably some way of converting force into it, for example, or a tech piece that lets you add a charge when you take a green maneuver maybe.

# ¿ May 6, 2018 23:38

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Are you new to tabletop wargames? This is pretty mild by comparison to most. TBH the weirdest thing is people being happy about it.

# ¿ May 7, 2018 05:33

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Zero. The local meta still seems stuck on Rey Falcon + Lowhhrick. No idea why :shrug:

# ¿ May 7, 2018 05:39

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

UK Games Expo is the first weekend of June, so maybe happening there?

ETA: for an event that people keep bugging me to go to I really know gently caress all about it. Seems it's full.

Arquinsiel fucked around with this message at 02:10 on May 8, 2018

# ¿ May 8, 2018 01:15

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

ConfusedUs posted:

There's explicitly a rule about misleading modifications. I'd say "paint the T70 to look like a T64" falls under that.

All that says to me is one dude was such an rear end in a top hat about it that FFG put in the rule to make him get out of the lobby.

# ¿ May 8, 2018 22:59

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Pretty sure it's one of the uglies from the Poe Dameron comic. There's a lot of stupid ships used by some criminal gang in one of those comics.

ETA: yup.

# ¿ May 9, 2018 03:34

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Presumably those are the totally opaque blast shields that Star Wars helmets have for some reason? :shrug:

# ¿ May 9, 2018 04:04

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

I always though the TIE Interceptor was the obvious followon from the TIE Advanced what with having a smaller sillhouette and more guns as a kid, but new canon has gone funky.

# ¿ May 9, 2018 06:08

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Really liking that Crack Shot is now not just a one off thing. The bullseye arc and charge mechanics have opened up a lot of interesting design space.

AndyElusive posted:

Yeah, if we're going down the road of pretend ship development then Tekopo is right.

It went TIE Fighter>TIE Advanced Prototype>TIE Advanced x1>TIE Interceptor>TIE Defender

Avenger and Aggressor fit in wherever the gently caress because Legends.

And now all of this happened before Ep. IV because Rebels :shrug:

It's given us a lot of cool ships, but it's also played merry hell with the timeline of things from the movies.

# ¿ May 9, 2018 20:24

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

bunnyofdoom posted:

Read it again. It only has 1 charge.

I remain convinced that charge counter manipulation will be a thing sooner or later :colbert:

Also I wanna see the rules about how charge actually works when you get it from multiple sources.

Poopy Palpy posted:

My guess is that he blew the squad's whole budget on his own ship.

This has become a thing for him in the novels, he just keeps crashing ships into capital ships and then boarding via lightsabre.

# ¿ May 9, 2018 21:34

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Some Numbers posted:

What, like having both Afterburners and an astromech? Each card has its own set of charges, you don't get to pool them together.

I'm just not ruling out any shenanigans or jank until I see the actual text of the mechanics, since spending a token is way more easily manipulated than discarding a card.

# ¿ May 9, 2018 23:26

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Am I the only one not able to spot where on the cards it tells you what upgrades they can take? Is it on the reverse side somewhere?

# ¿ May 19, 2018 06:03

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

banned from Starbucks posted:

Its not on the cards anymore. That and point costs are all done through the app now.

That explains it. Was wondering if these might be the rumoured pre-built versions or something. Looks like the HLC is a straight downgrade for Dash now.

# ¿ May 19, 2018 16:41

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Panzeh posted:

I'm pretty sure he doesn't even have a cannon slot any more since HLC outrider is baked in.

Yeah, except better than a HLC because no flipping crits to hits and less of a doughnut hole.

ETA: also no bullseye requirement.

# ¿ May 19, 2018 17:00

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

With the rebalance around 2 red dice being able to damage most stuff 4 reds is going to be crazy dangerous to get shot at by.

# ¿ May 19, 2018 20:02

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

My local store has kit tournaments on every two weeks until September, but June is devoid of X-wing events. I suspect they're holding calander space for it.

# ¿ May 20, 2018 18:25

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Panzeh posted:

Some core cards got spoiled.

Supernatural reflexes looks reeeeeally good.

Elusive looks interesting. I am even more curious about the charge mechanics now.

# ¿ May 27, 2018 18:31

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

thespaceinvader posted:

The 2400 on its own is a monster.

If even the generic doesn't cost a minimum of 100 points I'd be really, really worried about it.

I only understand half of what the title does and that's already pretty spectacular.

# ¿ May 31, 2018 17:28

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

thespaceinvader posted:

The title is not the important part. The fuckign 4 die primary which has no donut hole is the important part.

If the old one is anything to go on, the unique HLC turret cost 42 at a bare minimum on a lovely generic, remove the donut hole and that probably goes way up.

Oh, they're literally just losing their mind over regular Dash, not Dash with the title? Wow.

# ¿ May 31, 2018 21:04

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

A lot of the current evaluations seem to be using the new stats in the old system and most recent meta too. That's not exactly an ideal way to evaluate things.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2018 06:00

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

I'm not sure the title is strictly necessary, unless we can work out what the tokens are and if removing them is good or not.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2018 02:59

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 19:28

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Panzeh posted:

Jam, Ion, stress, and tractors, iirc.

What colours are those? The title only affects Red and Orange tokens.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2018 03:29

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > X-Wing 2.5: We are altering the rules. Pray we don't alter them any further.

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