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So I bought this ages ago and am finally feeling like giving it an honest try since my usual Endless Timesink Games are awaiting updates. I've looked over a couple of guides and the wiki and have a couple of ideas for runs that sound fun, basically: 1) a scientist/explorer type that dabbles in diplomatic/political missions and a touch of spying and doesn't do crew combat themselves 2) a combat monster type that makes money from hurting people and not-quite people in various ways, personally specialises in crew combat and would ideally develop a solid space combat ship as well If any of you that Know This Game are still around, any thoughts on which of these would be easier for a new player? Basically I get the sense that this game is like five different minigames tied together by the space sandbox, which sounds awesome, but is there any consensus on which of the minigames is easiest to get a grip on?
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Jan 25, 2021 23:21
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Dallan Invictus posted:So I bought this ages ago and am finally feeling like giving it an honest try since my usual Endless Timesink Games are awaiting updates. I've looked over a couple of guides and the wiki and have a couple of ideas for runs that sound fun, basically: Honestly the former. Combat can be deadly for a new player. You're better off mission running for the beginning of the game until you have some levels under your belt for your officers and crew.
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Jan 26, 2021 00:08
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Yeah, ship combat is the hardest thing you can do at the start, so it requires some knowledge of the game to not be frustrating. Boarding and planetside combat is less so, but it's still risky. A diplomatic/spy focus is good to learn the ropes and you might as well start with a small fast ship (that evades and runs away from naval encounters), as that's way more cost efficient for the kind of work you will be doing and the smaller initial crew will ease you in on how to develop them, also they will earn XP faster, so when you eventually move to a bigger ship you will have a core crew of badasses to build your roster around of. Note that spycraft will often involve planetside combat encounters, so you will want to have a handful of combat specialists and even if your captain is not specced for combat it is a good idea to at least give them a sniper rifle and let them hang in the back, because combat is good XP. I'd also recommend not using the normal difficulty for your learning game. Permadeath is a bit harsh for this game, as campaigns can be veeeeery long and it is frustrating to lose a long game over ignorant choices (which you will make a lot of as you're learning) and poor dicerolls. Bankrupcy and losing core crew is enough risk to provide tension.
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Jan 26, 2021 00:16
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Also don't worry about the main quest beyond the first set of missions because, not only are some of the later branches kinda tough for a new player without a specific build, but it can torpedo your faction relations in bad ways. Keeping your relations up with most factions is what keeps the game easy and learnable.
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Jan 26, 2021 00:26
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And by "having some combat specialists", I mean... it's often a good idea to make some or most of your officers into those specialists. Ordinary crewmen will do okay in combat for a while but eventually they will start to struggle, especially against big late game targets. In particular, your starting doctor is a solid candidate for being made into a combat officer. Give them the jobs Combat Medic and Swordsman or Pistoleer. Focus on these over doctor for level ups. Very useful to have a competent healer in combat situations.
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Jan 26, 2021 00:28
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willing to settle posted:And by "having some combat specialists", I mean... it's often a good idea to make some or most of your officers into those specialists. Ordinary crewmen will do okay in combat for a while but eventually they will start to struggle, especially against big late game targets. In particular, your starting doctor is a solid candidate for being made into a combat officer. Give them the jobs Combat Medic and Swordsman or Pistoleer. Focus on these over doctor for level ups. Very useful to have a competent healer in combat situations. Yep. Officers make the best crew combatants, crewmen are good for high level specialist talents/skill pool boosting, though getting specialist crewmen takes some significant contacts. It's kinda wild how important contacts are in this game.
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Jan 26, 2021 00:38
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Bumping to note this, which could be extremely significant:quote:What’s coming next…
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May 4, 2021 16:06
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I could finally build that ship-fitter app I always wanted to make. I got a copy of the internal asset database from the devs years ago when I was between jobs, but then ran out of time and dropped it like so many other projects…
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May 4, 2021 16:37
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I always get incredibly frustrated trying to cram in as many officers as I want so I will be very happy to increase the officer capacity of ships.
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May 4, 2021 21:14
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I wish I could extract whatever thingy they use to name systems and make it part of the namelist in Stellaris.
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May 7, 2021 12:57
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Just a quick mechanics question here. Do failed skill checks grant experience? If so, do Skill Save talents represent a significant loss of experience?
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Nov 15, 2021 21:41
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Pvt.Scott posted:Just a quick mechanics question here. Failed skill checks do not grant experience. So that can be a bit of a death spiral if you get really beat up, or have a ship that is just too big for your crew.
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Nov 15, 2021 21:52
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My first post since watching Dune. But holy gently caress this is a good Dune game. Just *chefkiss*
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Nov 16, 2021 19:15
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I've been meaning to get back into this, but I'm afraid I'll get overwhelmed, and I want to keep things as simple and manageable as possible. You guys have tips for character creation and the start of the game, and maybe things to keep in mind throughout an entire playthrough?
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Dec 19, 2021 15:16
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Attributes are the only thing you can't increase throughout the game, so it's hard to pass up attributes A, skills are also fairly good. The most important thing in the game, particularly ship combat is skill pools in things like tactics, gunnery, etc. Build your crew based on getting the right skill pools- the description of classes will tell you what kind of dice they add to your skills. Also, don't play on a high difficulty when you start. Once you understand how the game works, the difficulty is a lot less of a problem but keep it low while you're learning- there'll be a lot less pressure on you to try to keep up as the game advances.
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Dec 19, 2021 15:35
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Alright, so it might be good to set up a template that is Attributes -> Skills -> Ship -> Contacts -> Experience? Which attributes should I mainly focus on if I mostly want to do trading and a variety of missions? For my main guy I'm assuming I should focus on the skills that aren't pooled...or are they all pooled? I guess it would make sense if they all are, as opposed to attributes. I would still think some are harder to supplement than others. What is the recommended starter ship at 260k, as well as the best 2 starter contacts? There are too many choices I am paralyzed
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Dec 19, 2021 17:11
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I keep getting illegal goods that will sell well on population planets, but I have no smuggler contacts on pop planets. What am I supposed to do about that? For alien artifacts I just occasionally make a bus run to that one independent station that buys them but then that craters the market for them. Basically there's this whole black market mechanic and I can't figure out how to make it useful.
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Dec 19, 2021 18:21
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Phlegmish posted:Alright, so it might be good to set up a template that is Attributes -> Skills -> Ship -> Contacts -> Experience? Contacts that give rare recruits like doctors are always nice, but you probably don't start with the ability to start with them. Skills are pooled for most ship tasks, but not for crew combat. Captains can be flexible, but i recommend not making a personal combat captain as a beginner as that's somewhat risky. Officers are actually the best personal combatants but you'll also need to get things like doctor skill which can be hard for a newbie to find in crew(you need contacts to get doctors).
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Dec 19, 2021 19:02
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Best Friends posted:I keep getting illegal goods that will sell well on population planets, but I have no smuggler contacts on pop planets. What am I supposed to do about that? Indie Pop planets are rare but they do exist. Unless I start with a smuggler or xeno hunter I usually wait until the midgame contact bonanza before I worry about Black Markets. You know, the point where electronic technicians and crew dogs get free contact introductions just by doing what they do on populated planets. Most black market contacts also buy spy intel, so save the generic or obsolete stuff for when you have a cargo to sell. Starting with a contact that has black market access can work out, but I usually dump contacts for points elsewhere. Not much point in a black market trip that barely lets you sell Full Permit items after all.
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Dec 19, 2021 19:28
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One very important tip that the game doesn't do a great job of explaining is that you should be checking the patrol/spy/blockade pulls on basically every planet you orbit. Especially early on all of the draws will be bad and skippable but you might luck out and it's a habit to get into. Get a trade license up to 4 as soon as you can, you can get it from one of the starting quest guys if you run some of his missions for rep. Selling trade-restricted stuff will get you big gobs of cash. But also speaking of the starting quest it's 100% skippable, you can just ignore the plot entirely and boat around doing whatever the hell you want. This is worth it on at least one game just to grok some of the mechanics. Upgrade your weapon closet. Early on if you de-prioritized your ship in creation your best bet for actually winning space combat is to get in close and board a bunch. That said, space combat can kill you stone dead so it's often just better to run away. If you don't know what skills to assign, the skill save ones that give you an automatic success are all worth having. Once actual skills are high enough to pass checks most of the time they get less valuable but early game they're lifesavers.
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Dec 19, 2021 20:12
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The downside of this game getting a steady stream of small but meaningful updates is it makes it hard to make/find a beginner guide for it.
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Dec 20, 2021 23:35
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Yeah, I have the same problem. I have no idea how to set things up and just give up before getting started
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Dec 23, 2021 12:48
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One thing I can say is to try making a captain that prioritizes Experience and then probably Ship or Contacts. Starting out with a seasoned crew can do wonders for your early game, as can having a ship with an extra few crew and officer slots, not to mention contacts who can help you fill those slots with specialists and shower you with money. Will your captain's dice pools for missions suck? Kinda, yeah. You'll have a massive leg up though. Small crews in small ships level up more quickly (in theory, though smaller dice pools can mean more failures and no xp for your trouble), but then every crew member lost in the early days is a potential crisis that will have you limping to port in a ship that's falling apart. Taking skill save talents is never a bad idea. Then I'd probably pick up a few Patrol card re-rolls so you can more safely repair rep with factions if you have to (surrender or flee from the Patrol fights. Just encountering pirates will get you rep). Then I'd recommend talents that let you flee combat, as fighting space battles is expensive and will get your crew killed. Even if you want to do ship combat, you'll want the ability to disengage from bad situations.
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Dec 23, 2021 14:13
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And then to actually do ship combat you'll probably want to set up one of two strategies: boarding or disabling with missiles (you can also focus on blowing ships up but it's about a billion times less lucrative). I'm going to just write up one here because it's the one I use most often and also I got bored. Boarding Focus: Probably, imo, the strongest long-term strategy for anything except xenos, and even then only really struggles against the very late game Jyeeta Xeno. Has the advantage that your boarding crew will gain massive piles of XP and be well placed to deal with crew combat on missions or from cards. You will probably want most of your officers to be specced for crew combat (and maybe even your captain) if you go this route, so its less great on tiny ships. Carries some additional risk: obviously to the crew you send to board, but also if you can't board any enemy ship because you haven't kept up with the level curve you're pretty much hosed and need to escape. The idea is to close as quickly as possible and spam boarding talents to cripple the enemy ship. In theory boarding is kind of a crapshoot because you aren't guaranteed to be able to sabotage anything important unless you have a fast ship and roll well. In practice it barely matters because you can just do it over and over again, and it gets easier every time you do it. Even a single "Demoralize Crew" (one of the two default boarding victory actions) will significantly decrease an enemy ship's ability to hit you, and with talents you can get even better results. And generally you should be demoralizing. Skip sabotage unless the component you roll is really juicy (like the bridge, engines, or a gun that keeps hitting you) until after you've gotten your major talents off. After a couple of boardings you'll have mostly killed anyone who can actually fight and you'll start chewing through pilots, electronics techs etc. These combats are both very easy (letting you heal up your guys if you want) and also significantly reduce the enemy ship's capabilities. Eventually you'll have stacked so much damage over time on the enemy that you can just sit there and let them cook for a few rounds while they can't do anything to touch you. Alternately, keep boarding and you'll kill the captain or get the opportunity to sabotage the bridge or the engines, and you'll win. Talents Two types of talents are important for this strategy: ones that let you close quickly and safely, and ones that do a lot of damage when you win a boarding combat. Note that boarding talents can normally only be used by the boarding crew, but once you get to range 1 anyone can use one. This is important because a lot of the best ones are bit from jobs you would want to carry on combat crew. To close: Boarding Assault (Gunner) or Blood Game (Bounty Hunter): Let you board at Range 3 (or 4-5 in a mission for Bounty Hunter). This is huge and you'll want to have at least a couple of these available. Saves you a couple of rounds of being shot at before you can do some damage. Evasive Maneuvers (Pilot), Wild Flying (Pilot), Forward Thrusters (Pilot), Barrel Roll (Pirate), Vigilant Scanners (E. Tech): You should probably be using these the first couple of rounds. Boosting your defense for a couple of rounds keeps you safe until you can start boarding. Twitch Surge (Pilot): Extremely important. You'll sometimes be up against ships that are just straight up faster than yours and this will be the only way to close enough to launch your first Boarding Assault. Flash Charge (Navigator): Similar to Twitch Surge, but you do it before combat even starts and it burns fuel and damages your engines. This is actually a really good deal against tough looking enemies that will be able to screen you with massive amounts of fire before you can close, like battleships and xeno. After boarding: Thrown Wrench (Mechanic): in a league of its own, majorly cripples an enemy ship's ability to act against you. Launchpad Spike (Wing Commando), Behind Enemy Lines (Wing Commando): Really helpful against late game threats. Carriers (especially Xeno carriers) can be a pain in the rear end and stopping them from being able to launch craft is really useful. Similarly, end game xeno guns are extremely powerful and being able to shut one down will help your survivability immensely. Cold Blooded Threats (Bounty Hunter), Ferocious Crossfire (Soldier): Do direct health or morale damage to the enemy. This is pretty ineffective early on, but once the enemy have taken some damage it can easily knock out a couple of enemy crew. Hota-Core Shells (Shock Trooper): Equivalent of above but for ship components. This can be REALLY strong if the enemy ship has taken a few hits. DoT Talents: There's a lot of these and they're all great. Will do crew, component or morale damage per turn. Let you cook ships. Instakill Talents: Less strong than you'd think. They're okay openers I guess. Even the one you get at Assassin 15 that kills officers is a little underwhelming, enemy officers often don't add that much value to their ships. Unauthorized Access (Spy): Special mention for this talent even if it doesn't help you win. Intel is always helpful to have and this talent generates a ton of it. Combat Crew Combat crew builds are a whole Thing that get very complicated and are beyond the scope of what you need to consistently win at crew combat in ship battles, which are the easiest types of crew combats. It's hard to gently caress this up too badly really. Just try to run a somewhat balanced team, and where you're using officers make sure at least 2 of their jobs are combat jobs. Getting good stats on your combat crew can be a significant boost to their effectiveness. Use recruiting talents to get better stats, and recruit from a faction that specializes in that job if you can. Only one character can activate an "on init" talent per round of combat so be selective when choosing those. Backups are helpful. Ship Building There are some things that are generally true about good ships in Star Traders and those things are also true about boarding focused ships. Get the best weapon locker you can, and focus on Defense Matrices and Pilot Assist Modules to make yourself very difficult to hit. You can mostly ignore weapons. It doesn't hurt to have like a single long range weapon you can pop at enemies and a couple of autocannons to shred the enemy ship with while you're boarding and to shoot down fighters, but that's all you need.
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Dec 23, 2021 21:24
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Good write-up thanks
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Dec 24, 2021 03:36
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Inspired by this thread I reinstalled and started a new game on the lowest baby difficulty level I got intercepted by a military ship that was bigger, faster, and tougher than I was while taking the arbiter to her first world and blown apart (couldn't deal nearly as much damage as them, couldn't outrun them, etc) Technically it wasn't a gameover but I took one look at the state of the ship, my newly depleted bank account, and how I had basically no crew left after not even finishing one mission and remembered why I uninstalled the game a ways back and peace-out'd Thank you thread
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Dec 24, 2021 05:24
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You couldn't run away? I run away from everything early game, and I can't think of a time it didn't work to that degree. Also it's okay to surrender if you're seriously outclassed; you take a morale hit and lose cargo but it's way better than taking a drubbing and if you don't have expensive poo poo in your hold the downside is pretty minimal. If it's a military ship I don't think they even take legal cargo.
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Dec 24, 2021 06:23
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Yeah you should be surrendering more often than not early game.
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Dec 24, 2021 18:28
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NmareBfly posted:You couldn't run away? I run away from everything early game, and I can't think of a time it didn't work to that degree. Also it's okay to surrender if you're seriously outclassed; you take a morale hit and lose cargo but it's way better than taking a drubbing and if you don't have expensive poo poo in your hold the downside is pretty minimal. If it's a military ship I don't think they even take legal cargo. Nope! I considered surrendering but I figured, it's early game, easiest difficulty, the game claims my engine and agility are better than theirs, I can just retreat. And then I uselessly hammered retreat every round while firing my popgun starting torpedoes and getting blasted to scrap metal. So that's funny too. I've given this game a lot of tries in the past but never got beyond what y'all would probably call early game; I have vague memories of progressing the main plot to the point where everyone comes together or whatever and I enter a new... era? but I never really got any huge great ships or fully upgraded anything. It's just, this game is so brutal even on "I am a baby please do not hurt me" difficulty where I just want to chill out and have fun being a trader or doing occasional missions that trying to have fun with it feels like getting into a prize fight, and there's enough games that aren't this vicious that it's hard for me to want to keep banging my head on this one despite how much I adore the idea and the vibe.
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Dec 24, 2021 20:19
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Speaking of something that feels impossible: the jyeta mission crew combats. I can beat them with little risk of losing a guy in crew combat as part of space battles consistently, but when it comes to the jyeta guys on spore hunting exploration missions, it's party wipe every time. They all have around 20 or higher initiative, and each of their attacks debuffs + poisons + repositions. So by the time I've got my first action, my party is at half health, half morale, poisoned, shuffled, and I'm lucky if I haven't lost anyone yet. I have a tier 6 weapon locker which is the highest I can find, and my dudes are close to 30 level. Not clear how this is supposed to be possible.
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Dec 25, 2021 00:16
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90% of ships only have a 4 man combat crew complement. I won't pretend to know enough to reliably beat xenos, much less Jyeta. But day to day crew combat can be covered by two soldiers and two people in heavy armor. Having dedicated frontliners is good for the initial boarding and random encounters. But the rest of ship crew combat is a valuable opportunity to powerlevel your doctors, smugglers, etc. The backmost soldier wants to go before their buddy and has Backline Leader, plus Suppressing Fire and eventually a backup Full Auto. The other soldier wants to go after the leader and to carry the biggest machine gun you own. They are only going to be doing one thing on their turn: Full Auto. One Soldier going Full auto will kill half of any human combat team that they can hit. The leader tends carry a lighter gun and might leave some scraps for the non combat types. Xeno wise keep in mind that they secretly do have combat classes. And that most of those classes don't work outside of a certain range. So if you can knock them out of their ideal spot they have to waste turns swapping. Jyeta though, woof. Only got to that point once and dearly felt the lack of Xeno combat only buffs that dedicated Xeno hunters get. And yeah if you didn't build a character and starting ship specifically to fight people: Don't! Bribe them or just try to run away. In the medium term you want get out of jail free talents like Stiff Salute, even if you have to have your officers dip into the relevant class for just one level. Even combat ships have weeks where they just want to get to a repair yard.
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Dec 25, 2021 01:43
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Also for the most part surrendering is not game over or even particularly troublesome. Surrendering to military officers just inspects your hold for contraband. If you’re starting out, you probably don’t even have any. Obviously if you’re fighting pirates or xeno you might not want to surrender, but in general it’s not the end of the world if you occasionally have to surrender. Cantorsdust fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Dec 26, 2021 |
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Dec 26, 2021 00:45
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habituallyred posted:90% of ships only have a 4 man combat crew complement. I won't pretend to know enough to reliably beat xenos, much less Jyeta. But day to day crew combat can be covered by two soldiers and two people in heavy armor. Having dedicated frontliners is good for the initial boarding and random encounters. But the rest of ship crew combat is a valuable opportunity to powerlevel your doctors, smugglers, etc. The backmost soldier wants to go before their buddy and has Backline Leader, plus Suppressing Fire and eventually a backup Full Auto. The other soldier wants to go after the leader and to carry the biggest machine gun you own. They are only going to be doing one thing on their turn: Full Auto. One Soldier going Full auto will kill half of any human combat team that they can hit. The leader tends carry a lighter gun and might leave some scraps for the non combat types. If you're going to optimize crew combat, you want to, very early in the game, ditch your starting officers(unless they have excellent skills and stats for combat, just go from planet to planet trying to find people with the right stats for whatever combat role you want). It's much much easier to do this early on rather than later when the enemies scale up more and you're still trying to level up freshly screened out crew combatants.
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Dec 26, 2021 14:45
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Panzeh posted:If you're going to optimize crew combat, you want to, very early in the game, ditch your starting officers(unless they have excellent skills and stats for combat, just go from planet to planet trying to find people with the right stats for whatever combat role you want). It's much much easier to do this early on rather than later when the enemies scale up more and you're still trying to level up freshly screened out crew combatants. What should you look for in this? I’ve generally tried to run: Captain: bounty hunter + ??? (Exo scout?) Combat Medic + ??? (Something with pistols) Other backliner (soldier + ???) Front liner (the sword guys) But I hadn’t ever looked at stats…
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Dec 26, 2021 19:41
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ulmont posted:What should you look for in this? I’ve generally tried to run: Dex is the god stat in crew combat- the more dex you have, the more initiative you get, meaning more moves, and going first. Strength is also good. Stats to look for on any frontliner is blades, the weapon you're using, and evasion. It's usually ideal for the front two to have blades of some sort to benefit from the defense, even if it's pistol+secondary blade. You also want enough fortitude to survive some hits.
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Dec 26, 2021 20:31
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Dexterity and Wisdom both determine combat initiative and I'd want my combat crew to have at least 20 in each. Actually finding that without recruitment talents can be rough. I find your starting crew tends to have decent stats, so there's sometimes a combat monster or two hidden in among your Crew Dogs and Gunners and whatnot that you could promote to officer status early. Assuming you want combat officers, obviously.
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Dec 26, 2021 21:14
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ulmont posted:What should you look for in this? I’ve generally tried to run: If I am going to have a combat captain I make them a sniper after the A Stats start: Sniper Rifles use Dexterity + Rifle as opposed to Strength + Rifle for regular rifles Skills that target the very backline are comparatively rare Kills a person almost every time they move, just one but you can't have everything Pick whatever perks you like as your starting class. Personally I like the built in accuracy from commander, but the boosts combat classes get aren't bad. In theory you could combine the spy stealth ability with the sniper stealth stuff. Secondary class wise Exo Scout is good or you could roll the dice and be a Xeno Hunter. Xeno combat is always high risk, but your captain might even the odds.
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Dec 27, 2021 02:57
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Always promote one of your officers to Military Officer at game start and pick the Stiff Salute talent. It lets you skip encounters with Zealot and Military ships every nine weeks and is a real game saver through the entire campaign.
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Dec 27, 2021 21:25
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I also think I wish there was either an autosave or the game would commit to being a full roguelike, because I hate just running into an unwinnable, can't-retreat-can't-surrender-can't-hit-them-can't-close encounted and having my game end and realizing the last time I made a save slot was over an hour ago. I tend to just delete the character when that happens because it's so dispiriting. I also looked up my old files and the furthest I've ever gotten is level 11 and just barely into the second era thingy. :joy: Even on the absolute minimum difficulty I just get absolutely shitwrecked by everything. I think I don't understand what I'm supposed to be upgrading to what on my ship and what is and isn't important, possibly because the game just throws screens of numbers at you with minimal guidance as to what a "smart" build is.
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Jan 1, 2022 02:59
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Mukaikubo posted:I also think I wish there was either an autosave or the game would commit to being a full roguelike, because I hate just running into an unwinnable, can't-retreat-can't-surrender-can't-hit-them-can't-close encounted and having my game end and realizing the last time I made a save slot was over an hour ago. I tend to just delete the character when that happens because it's so dispiriting. I also looked up my old files and the furthest I've ever gotten is level 11 and just barely into the second era thingy. :joy: Even on the absolute minimum difficulty I just get absolutely shitwrecked by everything. I think I don't understand what I'm supposed to be upgrading to what on my ship and what is and isn't important, possibly because the game just throws screens of numbers at you with minimal guidance as to what a "smart" build is. On lower difficulties, dying is not the end though - when your ship is destroyed you just get a "this WOULD have been the END if you werent playing in babby mode" message, eat a repair bill, and can continue to learn the game. There are also some (I think navigator? or pilot?) skills that allow you to evade ship encounters completely - great stuff for those xeno ship encounters. And a different question: is it really not possible to move upgraded ship components to a new ship? Because if I have to upgrade the new one from scratch, it will get very expensive :/
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Jan 1, 2022 09:59
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