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Shark Sandwich posted:incels need therapy and anti-depressants more than Marxism imo Marxism understands that capitalists alienate and commodify any element of society that they can profit from. Incels are responding accordingly and demanding that the market provide the commodity of the female form which has been so regularly advertised to them. Capitalism as it exists has failed its promise to provide for them, and rather than question the capitalist organization of society, they are seeking more extreme capitalism. They might need some therapy and psychiatric help to get over their self-loathing enough to see reality though.
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May 11, 2018 21:55
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There's an interesting racial and class element to the incel stuff too. They see poorer people having sex (but having kids, which they don't want to raise outside of a conservative household with a Father) and they question the whole point of doing everything "right" according to the rules of capitalism. They look up and see rich guys allegedly getting pussy easily, and then they look down and see black and hispanic machismo as something that, while degenerate, is something that gets them sex, sometimes from the white women that they deserve to possess, and they get pissed. Since the system can't fail (after all, it's rewarded them with a cozy life and higher social status than they'd otherwise "deserve"), it is clearly the work of nefarious outsiders (jews, feminists), whose only goal is their suffering, to taunt them with the commodified female form
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May 11, 2018 22:37
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ascribing every form of human misery, inequity and moral turpitude solely to capitalism remains as dumb as ever tbh I also find the suggestion that incels need but embrace feminism to find happiness to be highly suspect, since while concern over toxic masculinity/gender roles would seem to be relevant, as it's actually practiced as an ideology/social movement it barely pays lip-service to whatever legitimate concerns they might have re: being unfuckable/socially unsuccessful and offers little to them in practical terms - instead it always seems to read like a suggestion that their need for human intimacy should be subordinated to the more important concerns of other people obviously cultivating empathy is incredibly useful in not being a social troglodyte, and feminism is worth supporting on its own merits, but you very clearly don't actually need to have non-regressive Correct Opinions to not be an incel
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May 11, 2018 22:38
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they're not unfuckable they just don't want to gently caress the other unfuckable women, of which there are plenty I don't want to overstate capitalism's role here because while it is obvious operating in the background of everything we do a lot of it has to do with inflated expectations wrt what kind of women they can date and gently caress given their appearance, status, and social intelligence
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May 11, 2018 22:41
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LGD posted:tbh I also find the suggestion that incels need but embrace feminism to find happiness to be highly suspect, since while concern over toxic masculinity/gender roles would seem to be relevant, as it's actually practiced as an ideology/social movement it barely pays lip-service to whatever legitimate concerns they might have re: being unfuckable/socially unsuccessful and offers little to them in practical terms - instead it always seems to read like a suggestion that their need for human intimacy should be subordinated to the more important concerns of other people they're different solutions to different problems. incels need to embrace feminism to cure them of their psychotic misogyny, and need to develop empathy to solve their social retardation.
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May 11, 2018 22:43
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KaptainKrunk posted:they're not unfuckable they just don't want to gently caress the other unfuckable women, of which there are plenty I'll freely admit "whatever legitimate concerns" is doing some work there tractor fanatic posted:they're different solutions to different problems. incels need to embrace feminism to cure them of their psychotic misogyny, and need to develop empathy to solve their social retardation. some basic empathy actually fixes both issues, while embracing feminism as an ideology without fixing the social retardation creates a bunch of cringeworthy "male-feminists" and people who are absolutely terrified of approaching women LGD has issued a correction as of 22:52 on May 11, 2018 |
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May 11, 2018 22:45
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KaptainKrunk posted:they're not unfuckable they just don't want to gently caress the other unfuckable women, of which there are plenty which is why the feminism angle gets promoted. these people do not want sex for the sake of sex, they want sex for the sake of the status they assume it will grant them. one of them who gets laid is in for the PHENOMENALLY unpleasant realization that nothing changes about you when you nut without using your hand. they will still end up back in the exact same place, with the exact same problems. an understanding of the universe where sexual status is not the end-all be-all is the only way to save these poor fuckers, and the number of places you're going to find that message in modern society is pretty sharply loving limited
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May 11, 2018 22:49
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I think you're right. A lot of definitely has to do with being seen (or seeing themselves) as someone with a stable enough status to get married, or, if they can't do that (but ideally both) then someone who gets laid with a ton of different women and doesn't "have" to get married
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May 11, 2018 22:57
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Incel uses embrace feminism. Incel has evolved into weepy horny rose emoji reply guy
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May 11, 2018 23:09
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Ace of Baes posted:Incel uses embrace feminism. Thirsteon
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May 11, 2018 23:14
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Ace of Baes posted:Incel uses embrace feminism. *extremely serious socialist voice* rip ur menchies
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May 11, 2018 23:16
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Weeping Wound posted:no need to gently caress when you're already perfect 
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May 12, 2018 00:19
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:DAESH is the beta uprising, to be put down by shabiha chads 
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May 12, 2018 00:30
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lol @ incels
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May 12, 2018 00:33
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Op have you considered that constructing a worldview where women owe you sex and it's a great injustice on you that nobody will touch your dick is unhealthy
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May 12, 2018 00:37
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Op have you considered that constructing a worldview where women owe you sex and it's a great injustice on you that nobody will touch your dick is unhealthy He would probably insist that it's your responsibility to make him healthy if you care so much about it, and that you bringing it up is another symptom of his systemic exclusion from perfect pussy lol
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May 12, 2018 00:39
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Ze Pollack posted:which is why the feminism angle gets promoted. this is a good take As is this: https://splinternews.com/unfuckable-women-dont-go-on-killing-sprees-1825746733 quote:And in sharp contrast to the incel axiom that even the ugliest women can attract male attention, plenty of women wrote that just being “average-looking” never felt like enough to attract the attention of men who’d grown up ogling digitally perfected female celebrities. “I’d spend an hour dolling myself up to go to a bar and get ignored,” said Ashley, a 26-year-old from the Midwest who struggled with feelings of unfuckability all throughout high school and college.
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May 12, 2018 00:39
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Op have you considered that constructing a worldview where women owe you sex and it's a great injustice on you that nobody will touch your dick is unhealthy im not an incel but i think them being the kneejerk butt of every joke isnt very nice plus it plays into their insular 'blackpill' narrative
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May 12, 2018 01:14
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maybe think a little harder than that
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May 12, 2018 01:15
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Vitamin P posted:im not an incel but i think them being the kneejerk butt of every joke isnt very nice plus it plays into their insular 'blackpill' narrative The blackpill is a separate thing, though And they're the butt of the joke because they're pathetic
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May 12, 2018 04:36
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imo we should viciously pick on pathetic losers until they snap and murder some innocent people, bullying is super effective at making people who already feel aggrieved and full of self-loathing and rage just decide that they're actually wrong and quietly go away
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May 12, 2018 04:55
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Wheeee posted:imo we should viciously pick on pathetic losers until they snap and murder some innocent people, bullying is super effective at making people who already feel aggrieved and full of self-loathing and rage just decide that they're actually wrong and quietly go away Said nobody itt But you can't penetrate their she'll with love and kindness because they want to be miserable at this point
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May 12, 2018 05:16
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Vitamin P posted:im not an incel but i think them being the kneejerk butt of every joke isnt very nice plus it plays into their insular 'blackpill' narrative they probably wouldn't be the butt of every joke if they weren't murderous obsessives they're not laughed at because they're not getting laid, they're laughed at because they make "not getting laid" a primary facet of their identity
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May 12, 2018 13:46
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they should be coldly disenfranchised, spoken of but never to, in frank but non-pejorative language, and their online safe spaces banned or shut down until they lose the ability to continue recruiting new followers While I'm super guilty of being an rear end in a top hat on the internet, with incels you're not just mocking their present ideological brand like with proud boys or whatever, but rather are punching down at who they intrinsically are, and that has a much more profound negative impact on powerless people who may be prone to violently lashing out.
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May 12, 2018 17:55
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guys who hate women and think of pussy as a commodity getting ridiculed isn't "punching down" cause misogynist white men have most of the power. treating women as a commodity is the biggest oldest toughest power structure there is
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May 12, 2018 18:08
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that is true, and it is a broad problem in every society which leads to groups of men like incels forming. its where Daesh got a lot of members, leads to masses of gangrapes in India, and now vans being driven into crowds in Canada and in no case has laughing at them done anything to help Incels and those like them need to be viciously disenfranchised, clowning on them only feeds the persecution complex while not actually disempowering them
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May 12, 2018 19:35
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Back in my day, when I didn't get laid in high school I just played Everquest all day.
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May 22, 2018 20:24
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Wheeee posted:they should be coldly disenfranchised, spoken of but never to, in frank but non-pejorative language, and their online safe spaces banned or shut down until they lose the ability to continue recruiting new followers if being a violent misogynist is "who they intrinsically are", then we should probably be doing a lot more to them than just "punching down"
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May 22, 2018 20:31
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Main Paineframe posted:if being a violent misogynist is "who they intrinsically are", then we should probably be doing a lot more to them than just "punching down"
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May 22, 2018 20:39
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Main Paineframe posted:if being a violent misogynist is "who they intrinsically are", then we should probably be doing a lot more to them than just "punching down" agreed there's no doubt that our current patriarchal society is gonna lead dudes to view women with a sense of entitlement. but these guys are self-aware enough to realize how entitled they're being about sex and their response is to group together and go through all these mental gymnastics about "sexual currency" to justify being violently mad at women. so they are cognitively able to understand that they're toxic diaper babbies and they choose to remain that way, finding validation for it amongst other toxic diaper babbies therefore,  them before THEY start shooting, imo
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May 22, 2018 20:51
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This week on Pimp My Technical...
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May 27, 2018 23:22
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Im ugly
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May 28, 2018 00:41
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LGD posted:some basic empathy actually fixes both issues, while embracing feminism as an ideology without fixing the social retardation creates a bunch of cringeworthy "male-feminists" and people who are absolutely terrified of approaching women I'd rather be surrounded by "cringeworthy male feminists" and people who are terrified of women than weird little white boy spree shooters the thing about the social retardation is that, as you yourself have proposed, some of that is *just a human problem* that isn't exclusively the product of socioeconomics or whatever; some people have inherent traits that make it much harder for them to comprehend or relate to others, and that unwillingness to do the thing you're saying feminism does - "these guys need to subordinate their issues and burn themselves on the pyre for others" - is kind of the ROOT OF THE ENTIRE PROBLEM you know who gets laid, aside from confident people and rich people? people who subordinate their own needs for the sake of others, genuinely listen when they talk, do nice things for them without expectation of reward, etc
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May 28, 2018 00:52
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or to put it another way: that thing you're suggesting bad feminists do (and I don't even disagree that some of them are weird and selfish; they're human beings) is the same thing as saying "these guys need to learn empathy"
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May 28, 2018 00:56
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wizard on a water slide posted:I'd rather be surrounded by "cringeworthy male feminists" and people who are terrified of women than weird little white boy spree shooters
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May 28, 2018 01:33
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Ze Pollack posted:which is why the feminism angle gets promoted. Society used to (and does in plenty of places in the world) quite a few of men who would be these guys to die in wars or get sent off to labour camps in the middle of nowhere, like Canada and the US did via public works in the 30s. No they weren't just incels, but restless unemployed young men and were headed in that direction, at least in the eyes of their respective societies. Clearly we need volcel monasteries asap. All that being said, agreed about that message being loving limited and it's a drat shame. Capitalist Realism touches on a lot of this, iirc Dreylad has issued a correction as of 01:49 on May 28, 2018 |
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May 28, 2018 01:47
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rudatron posted:Fyi being a doormat is not sexy. good thing he didn't describe that
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May 28, 2018 01:50
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"people who subordinate their own needs for the sake of others" is the definition of a doormat. you have to respect other people, but you also have to respect yourself. treat yourself and others fairly, is the best way to go.
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May 28, 2018 02:25
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sleeptalker posted:Marxism understands that capitalists alienate and commodify any element of society that they can profit from. Incels are responding accordingly and demanding that the market provide the commodity of the female form which has been so regularly advertised to them. Capitalism as it exists has failed its promise to provide for them, and rather than question the capitalist organization of society, they are seeking more extreme capitalism. A lot of these guys' proposed answer is government-provided hookers. Doesn't sound capitalist to me. Government bread isn't enough for these losers, they gotta have government poontang too.
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May 28, 2018 02:44
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rudatron posted:"people who subordinate their own needs for the sake of others" is the definition of a doormat. you have to respect other people, but you also have to respect yourself. treat yourself and others fairly, is the best way to go. Subordinating your own needs for the sake of others is the basic function of a family.
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May 28, 2018 03:23
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