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Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

nurabsal posted:

lol..you didn't get to the best part. Droid Rebellion! (even though droids are obviously not AI in star wars and meant to be treated like cattle)

Wow, we got to it on page one!

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Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!
Oh, Han's mentor figure tells him to shoot first. That’s bingo!

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!
Luke is ~16 when Obi-Wan kills Maul, I think. The latter seasons of Rebels are like three years before ANH.

e: Ezra is either exactly the same age as Luke and Leia or a bare few days or weeks older, depending how much time passes in the final act of ROTS.

e2: lol he kills Maul

Zoran fucked around with this message at 19:52 on May 11, 2018

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

CelticPredator posted:

Kill Star Wars

Lucas should’ve just made the whole thing public domain

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!
I distinctly remember vehement arguments I had with my dad after seeing TPM that Senator Palpatine definitely wasn’t the Emperor.

In my defense, I was six.

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

This is the first I’ve seen of cartoon Maul but I like him thinking the chosen one will avenge the Sith. He didn’t get much in TPM but he does come off as the only True Believer dark side guy we’ve seen.

It's really more that the chosen one will avenge him personally. In the Clone Wars show, Maul's activities eventually attract Palpatine's attention. Darth Sidious has no interest in welcoming his old apprentice back into the fold—he’s old news, and Sidious obviously has Anakin in mind. So there's a confrontation where Darth Sidious shows up, kills Maul's brother, and leaves Maul for dead.

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!
The nominal new main character in TFA spends the entire movie just having things happen to her

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

Taintrunner posted:

hint: it's because a black man being the star of a disney property is a terrifying prospect for them

the central characters in the disney wars are: white lady (rey), white guy (ren), white lady (erso), white guy (solo), everyone else is just a sidekick while we pretend to care about diversity

I remember that in the months before Rogue One came out, Disney had just confirmed that Emilia Clarke would be starring in the Han Solo film, and some people were upset that every female lead in Disney Star Wars was a white, brunette English woman.

It was actually used as evidence that Jyn was probably related to Rey. Felicity Jones and Daisy Ridley look plausibly similar, and Disney had made such a big deal about how race-natural their casting was for Rey, but they didn’t say that about Jyn. If it weren’t for biological necessity, why else would a good woke company like Disney fail so hard at diversity?

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

CharlestonJew posted:

why did they give Finn a new love interest? did Finn get officially friendzoned by Rey or something?

If Rey has no specific emotional commitments, she can continue to be a cipher, which is useful for marketing purposes.

That said, it looked like maybe Finn wasn’t all that into Rose.

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

Brother Entropy posted:

TLJ was just uninterested in the mysteries TFA set up and had people speculating on for two years, which will be divisive for people depending on how much they gave a poo poo about those mysteries beforehand

The main problem is that those mysteries were the only things in TFA that were remotely interesting.

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

deoju posted:

Just saw it.

Here's my two cents...

It didn't add much, but it didn't take anything away either. I was fine with it.

Ps: If Maul's alive it should be V a d e r who finally kills him in an epic show down. Maul doing flippy spinny poo poo and V a d e r has none of it and takes his head off.

Obi-Wan kills him, finally.

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

Ema Nymton posted:

No dialogue. No motivation. No screen time. Maul has always seemed to me like just another example of why the prequels were trash. And now, there's all these young folks saying that he's awesome. I guess I'm just too old.

The entire story in TPM is about this band of do-gooders thinking they’ve saved the world when in fact they’ve just empowered a fascist and achieved all of his goals for him. Maul turning out to be a nothing is the point—he's just a scary face whose death gives the Jedi an empty victory.

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!
Spoilers ahoy.

Rey has a love child—with Kylo, maybe.

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!
Well, they are supposedly casting a new middle-aged woman for a leading role, who could be a replacement for Leia's part.

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!
The guy claims the storyboard is from JJ's treatment and not Trevorrow's. He also claims that Disney has internally reached the decision to go ahead and re-cast Leia.

For the record I think the guy's ideas are very, very stupid, but I would have said that about several things had I seen his leak of TLJ. Except for the parts we know were rewritten (when Rose took Poe's place and Poe had to be given something else to do back with the Resistance), he was pretty drat close.

I do not want this leak to be correct. I think it's awful.

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!
I did just check and I can’t find a Kathleen Kennedy quote where she specifically rules out recasting Leia. She says they won’t CGI her and that Carrie won’t appear (from stock footage or whatever). Can anyone find her saying that Leia, the character, will not be in Episode IX?

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

Did you, uh, read my post?

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

Wheat Loaf posted:

One thing I've heard about IX is that Greg Grunberg might be in it again which, if true, I suppose would tend to confirm that the Resistance in the Millennium Falcon at the end of TLJ wasn't the entire Resistance.

Wasn’t he killed in the opening of TLJ?

e: looks like he wasn’t in it so maybe I’m remembering another fat fighter pilot getting blown up

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

Wheat Loaf posted:

I've heard that Donald Glover will be in Episode IX as Lando and Billy Dee Williams is actually going to be playing Lando's grandfather, Grando.

No, but the live-action series features Lando’s father, Mando.

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!
Vader chokes Admiral Ozzel via tv

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

thrawn527 posted:

No joke, I would watch the poo poo out of that movie.

Probably the feminist liberation movement would be the villains because they also like to kill puppies or something

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

Preston Waters posted:

Watchmen is playing on TNT-East and Episode III is playing on TNT-West

I did some thinking for a minute and I just realize that I would easily watch any Zack Snyder film over that poo poo film any day of the week.

I thought Watchmen was a Zack Snyder film?

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

Angry Salami posted:

The Glove of Darth Vader?

I can’t believe how much I want this to happen

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!
Rey does not represent the idea that anyone can become a powerful Force adept. At most, she shows that you can have divine power without being actually born to people who also have it. But we already knew that, because there were several thousand Jedi in the old Order at any one time, and evidently they weren't having kids and passing on their powers that way. And the Christ figure of the saga is born a slave in the middle of nowhere.

An awful lot of people seem to think that Star Wars endorses hereditary birthrights: Leia and especially Luke are strong because they are the twin children of a powerful sorcerer, and they use that power to defeat the evil empire and save the day.

To me, this seems like one of those wild misunderstandings that nevertheless penetrated popular culture. Yes, Luke and Leia do turn out to inherit Anakin Skywalker's strength in the Force. In a typical fantasy, this would mean they have a divine right to rule, and the usurper king must be dethroned because he's illegitimate. Instead, Leia becomes a revolutionary—although she starts as an upper-class liberal snob—who opposes the Empire because it's fascist. Luke throws away all his worldly power, refuses to become what his father is, and in so doing inspires Vader to destroy evil. The father dies to redeem the galaxy because the son was willing to do it first.

In the end, the Rebel victory has little to do with the fact that Luke and Leia have magic powers, except for that one time Luke made a lucky shot. Their relationship with Vader matters, but only insofar as Vader wants them to vindicate him—first as the enlightened dictators he wanted Padmé to be, but later as symbols of the last good thing he did in the world. But for them, the revelation that they are lost heirs is a tragedy. Their inheritance is poison.

I like the family connections in Star Wars. They make the conflicts relatable, and they serve as a good metaphor for the struggle we all have to reckon with the legacy of the past. Anakin's mistakes are a small-scale representation of an entire generation's mistakes. I think the asymmetry in the ways Obi-Wan and Anakin think of each other as adoptive family members lends their relationship a nice tension. And I think Ben Solo is the only compelling character in the sequel trilogy precisely because he's the only one who has a substantial personal connection to the failure of the resurrected Republic.

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

Leia is a revolutionary because she's an artiscorat. She wants to restore power to the Senate.

That’s obviously what she is in A New Hope. By the time of Return of the Jedi, my read is that she is radicalized. Jabba is her mirror image, since he's really nothing more than another aristocrat on a different world. She is enslaved by this figure, and then she kills him with his own tool of oppression.

For the rest of the film, she has no special role in the rebel hierarchy anymore. She doesn’t lead the final battle. She has subsumed herself fully into the cause, and now she is just another foot soldier wearing the same guerrilla outfit as everyone else. Eventually she encounters another oppressed race of people, makes common cause with them, and battles alongside them for their liberation and her own.

The sequels say that Leia ends up as one of the last people still carrying on the fight against fascists, and that actually rings true to me. The part in the old and new EU where she's a high-ranking, vaguely liberal politician does not.

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

No Mods No Masters posted:

The only way to understand Leia's character is to fully realize and accept just how deeply Hillary she is

No, but she is exactly what Hillary imagines herself to be, until the Disney era where she is now actually Hillary for some reason.

There's a pre-trump-election 2016 Star Wars book where Leia's the reluctant but wise candidate for galactic president, adored by all the good guys and only opposed by the Nazi sympathizer party. Then her ambitions are destroyed by a deeply unfair character-assassinating scandal. lmao

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!
It's specifically Obi-Wan who wants a return to “a more civilized age.” And yes, Leia wants to restore power to the Senate, of which she is a member. Luke has a non-specific dislike for the Empire that comes across as basically a vague libertarianism. Han doesn’t much mind the Empire as long as it doesn’t mess up his smuggling career. The rebels we see in A New Hope are basically all Leia's people, who do want a restoration of the old nobility.

My point is that these things change. We don’t ever get a clear picture of the entire Rebellion's ideology, so we can only rely on what we see in the main characters as proxies. Luke ultimately rejects Obi-Wan's goals. Leia gives up the trappings of aristocracy. Han throws away his livelihood for the cause, even when given multiple chances to run away and start up his independent business again.

Nobody really gets into this Rebellion for completely selfless reasons, and yet they grow into much better people because of it. And the Rebellion, for its part, becomes a multi-racial coalition that actually does liberate oppressed peoples.

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

Wheat Loaf posted:

Presuming you'd be transplanting late 90s Lucas back to the late 70s so he's working on the OT with a PT mindset, it'd probably be all about the 1973 oil hyperfuel crisis and post-Vietnam post-Clone Wars galactic malaise.

Luke would almost certainly promise to bring about "Morning in the Galaxy" at some stage and demand that Mr Palpatine tear down this Death Star.


If you're happy to acknowledge the Clone Wars cartoon, it portrays the Separatists as having its own parliament of elected representatives in opposition to the Republic senate. However, all we ever see in the movies is a ruling council of honest business leaders who only want to extend the prosperity hoarded by the liberal Core Worlds elite to the non-human minorities in the Outer Rim.

The business leaders who rule the separatists waged a war of aggression against Naboo because they didn’t want to pay taxes, and then they attempted to provoke another war by assassinating an anti-war senator, and they all profited off this because they were a collection of financiers and arms manufacturers. You’re saying that George Lucas supported these things in the 1990s and that he was actually a fan of Ronald Reagan?

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

galagazombie posted:

I always wondered about the Gungans. They and the Naboo obviously have bad blood and are initially ready to throw each other to the wolves, but Obi-Wan implies they have some kind of "Symbiotic Relationship" that belies their apparent segregation. Are the Naboo buying those explosive goo balls on the sly? Are the Gungans running a black market in Chrome plating and Mediterranean Villas?

That's Obi-Wan citing a fundamental truth—all people are interconnected and depend on each other—but misunderstanding it. So he's right that the Gungans and the Naboo can work together to fight off oppression, but he thinks if the colonized people would just act more polite and respectable, then the colonizers would accept them and the problem would be solved.

For an example of this kind of thing in real life, consider the moderate moralists who've insisted for centuries that black people in the US would get ahead if they would just respect the police, adopt white culture, act grateful toward their betters, and never do anything violent or radical.

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

kidkissinger posted:

Wait why did he have that arm tho

It even got changed back to his regular gold arm in the final scene

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!
I’m deeply interested in this theory that kids stopped liking toys so much three or four years ago.

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!
Episode 3 is the best one of the series, actually

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

Brother Entropy posted:

i dunno if i'd say the ST's story is about people failing, that's more the prequel's bag

or at the very least the ST's story is about people failing but very emphatically denying those failures happened, which gets real drat weird at times

It's about how even your colossal failures don’t matter because the next movie, or even the same one, will forget about it.

Capital planet destroyed? No one gives a poo poo one minute later. First Order's planet-sized superweapon, the thing that they have evidently been pouring all their resources into under everyone's nose, gets blown up? No worries, they rule the galaxy the next day.

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!
Glad to see the trend of just bringing back all the old Rebel starfighter designs continues apace

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

galagazombie posted:

But we're not seeing a removal of aliens, but instead a weird switcheroo. Like the aliens didn't go away, they just all became ugly scrotums.

The aliens were a big part of the “Real sets! Practical effects!” campaign. The trouble is that it's hard to make wearable alien costumes that have truly bizarre anatomy, so the aliens who aren’t all CGI are all ballsacks with giant jaws.

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!
Star Wars Episode IX: The Unity of Hope

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!
Still can’t believe he never admitted what he did to Ben's parents

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

Just Chamber posted:

Kylo hasnt actually tried anything with Rey in the movies right? As much as some fans get wet over the idea. Like i dont even remember any sort of awkward scene where it's clear he wanted to

Well he did do mind rape

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

Cheesus posted:

With as much as Abrams has understood Lucas's OT story, I can see the visual turning point being Kylo looking down at his real gloved hand and then tossing his lightsaber aside.

I can’t begin to express how much I want this to happen.

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Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

Preston Waters posted:

when are we gonna see a fuckin purple light saber in this trilogy

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