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On the subject of RotJ, yeah the second act is a little slow but it's not outright bad. And the other two acts more than make up for any shortcomings. While I'm not the biggest fan of the Ewoks I think the hate for them is way out of proportion. Star Wars has had cutesy things causing trouble since ANH. Hell R2D2 is literally a cute thing that gets into highjinks and he's in the first scene of the franchise. Sometimes I think the Ewok hate might just be our cultures belief you're not allowed to like thing unironically unless they're "mature" enough.
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May 15, 2018 02:05
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banned from Starbucks posted:Is making GBS threads on RLM still the cool SA thing to do for some reason? It seems to be the cool thing to do in general. A lot of people have turned on them recently. Probably as a result of the sequels trilogy soullessness getting people to notice the good aspects of the prequels. And as the big prequel bashers RLM becomes sacrificed on the altar of popular hate.
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May 15, 2018 21:03
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I actually kinda thought Finn had a good character and arc in TFA (the only one besides Kylo). He's a grunt, see's some serious poo poo on his first mission and realizes he wants no part of this, tries to run away from it all, and finally realizes that you can't just put your head in the sand and let the world burn and that other people do indeed matter to you. One of the many things that make TLJ so aggravating is this entire arc is swept under the rug and Finn is exactly what he was at the start of TFA.
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May 18, 2018 22:51
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banned from Starbucks posted:I forgot about Chewies radio shack headset. Who is he even talking to with those? Hans not wearing any He's using one of those handless phones so he can drive the ship and tell his wife he'll be late for dinner tonight at the same time.
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May 21, 2018 07:40
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Vinylshadow posted:Even though the comics are probably the best part of the NuCanon Those comics were what convinced me I was right about NuCanon at first (In that it was better than Legends). It of course helps that they were the only substantial piece of NuCanon that existed for a while. My opinion of course has soured now that more and more crap keeps getting released and NuCanon has become its own unique flavor of stupid. As to why it ended up stupid is related to what Thrawn said about having movies it can't compete with. Abrams/Disney wanted to reset everything back to ANH? So the EU has to tell stories that make everyone stupid and illogical enough that something like that could happen. Trilogy not only not finished but not even planned out in even the broadest strokes? EU can only tell inconsequential stories that happen around ANH just like the pitfall Legends often fell into.
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May 24, 2018 21:53
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Milky Moor posted:i don't know i think it's kind of messed up to talk up the first female droid, introduce her as a droid rights advocate, then blow her up and jam her brain into a ship so she can be the nav computer for all eternity It's also part of the whole problem with these endless origin movies where literally everything Character X related from the original happened over this one weekend. Did we need to know the exiting origin of the Falcons GPS? It also leads to a problem I have that I don't really have a word or phrase to describe, but essentially it's "everything is important". the Falcon can't just have a wonky computer like everything else on the ship is wonky, It has to be the end result of some character arc and have "significance". Han can't just be calling the Falcon "baby" like people call their cars, no it's because now the ship is literally a girl robot. It makes the movie feel, I don't know, unreal?, ungrounded?, inhuman? Every line of dialogue from the original is taken so incredibly literally it's like the writers don't understand english.
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May 25, 2018 09:30
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Wank posted:^^^ right answer. Pansexual just means robots can give you a boner, not that every robot will give you a boner without fail.
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Jun 5, 2018 07:59
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Wild Horses posted:Hey listen in the movies fascism clearly works better than republicanism The director meant for DJ to be wrong, but the setting has been changed so that he is right. We the audience know that the Board of Directors mandate eternal Star War and thus good will not only never triumph, it will never even be in an advantageous position. Because the Marketing Department said Rebels in X-Wings fighting an Empire in TIE Fighters tests well. All this even though the prequels had neither (half the movies at the time of the buyout.) I've rarely seen a new creative team/owner miss the point so hard as with Disney Star Wars. Out of four movies only one (Rogue One) understood the setting and it's themes beyond the most literal visual references. A story thats final message is about triumph over evil and the power of redemption has been replaced with a never ending groundhog day of space explosions. Any good achieved will always be undone and Fascist empires will always be the end result. The rebels are but Sisyphus, while DJ is the true space Buddha who has reached enlightenment.
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Jun 11, 2018 05:52
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Payndz posted:I haven't even seen TLJ yet, but I now know enough about it also to know that I don't really care whether I eventually do or not. I think a big issue is that, for better or worse, the pre-Disney movies were all the vision of one man, who was trying to tell the one big story he had in his head for decades. The sequels and spinoffs are written by a bunch of randos working to the requirements of a corporate group, and storytelling by committee is always going to be lacking. One guy writes one episode, another writes something completely different the next: it's not a saga, just a bunch of stuff happening. This reminds me of what happened to once-hit TV series Heroes. The show completely destroyed itself because among other things the writers room was run on spite and self-pretension. Different writers would not like where so-and-so's character was heading and so would drastically retcon/contradict it the next time they got to be head writer on an episode. Then the other writer would get the lead position the episode after and revert what the other had done , and so it went back and forth. Maybe Rian Johnson wanted to do different stuff than J.J Abrams. But if thats the case you don't decide to take the second movie in a trilogy. More so, if your Lucasfilm you make sure your directors are on the same page and not throwing each others work in the trash when they're ostensibly trying to tell a single coherent narrative. It's going to get even worse come Episode IX when Abrams undo's all the changes to his stuff that Johnson made thus making the whole trilogy feel more like a playground spat than an epic three part story.
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Jun 14, 2018 08:05
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tadashi posted:He called in the writer/director of Primer to help with some concepts for Looper. That should tell you something about the people he looks up to. Apparently he didn't listen to him then. Primer may be confusing as all hell but actually has a neat plot and concept and follows its own consistent logic. On the other hand Looper is an uninteresting boilerplate thriller that repeatedly contradicts its own so-called "Logic" so often it might as well be a game of Calvin-ball.
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Jun 15, 2018 09:43
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Leia will be a central character in IX but always be just out of frame from whoever she's talking to. All her dialogue will suspiciously sound like out of context recordings of Carrie Fisher.
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Jun 20, 2018 04:30
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It's more like a series of committees with the board of directors at the top flowing down through to the story group with all kinds of focus groups getting a say along the way.
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Jul 1, 2018 10:13
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exquisite tea posted:Episode 9 is in this weird position where the only new interesting character they really have is Kylo Ren and everybody knows it, yet you have to invent some kind of satisfactory arc for Rey and whatever the hell they're doing with Finn after they've spent all of TLJ spinning wheels. And now they'll have zero OT characters to rely on. Someone made a good point that while Kylo is a good character he's not a good head villain. He's spent two movies getting clowned on by the hero and the very character traits that make him such a good character make him unintimidating to the audience as a threat. But every other villain except comic-relief Hux is dead so they have no good "final boss" for Rey to face. Is anyone really going to feel like she's in danger when she's made a fool out of him every movie so far? I'd disagree he's the only interesting character though. I legitimately like Finn and thought he had a good arc going in TFA. It's kind of a bummer they had him forget it and repeat it verbatim in TLJ but he still has stuff you could build off of, unlike non-entity Poe and Blandly inoffensive Rey.
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Jul 2, 2018 00:29
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I think they really missed an opportunity in TLJ with Finn's Imperial past. Instead of a pointless casino detour they could have explored something like learning how to live like a "real person" instead of an indoctrinated flesh robot or maybe given him some arc about seeing the Stormtroopers as victims of the First Order who need to be saved from it just as much as everyone else.They almost did something like the latter in the alternate Phasma showdown on the DVD/Blu-Ray but A, Thats not the scene that actually was used in the movie and B, Even if they had used it it's only a single scene that no other part of the movie before or after references, builds on, or shares themes with.
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Jul 2, 2018 01:51
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Jerkface posted:im feel like this happened with the prequels? episode 1 is the only one i refer to by numerical the others are aotc and rots and i honestly dont recall them being referred to by their numericals on toys and advertisements. While you're right it wasn't as prominent as putting "Episode I" on everything but it was definitely all over EPII&III merch. Even just the official logos plastered on everything had the episode number on it. Compared to that it definitely feels like they're trying to make everyone forget about the whole "Episode" thing. But on the other hand they put the "Star Wars Story" moniker on the other movies which kind of implies the episode moniker for TFA/TLJ by default so maybe its something else like marketing said the episode numbering was too long for the packaging?
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Jul 2, 2018 09:15
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cargohills posted:Remaking the prequels is a really stupid idea and I don't know why anyone thinks it would ever happen. Solo was a really stupid idea and yet they did it anyway. Though one would have to think that with all the hate they've been getting with "ruining the original vision behind star wars" and the weird turnaround a lot of peoples opinions have had on the prequels that they know there would be too much negative backlash if they tried.
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Jul 6, 2018 01:25
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Harime Nui posted:I don't think there was anything inherently stupid to the idea of Solo. The "no one cares about how Han Solo got his start!" thing is a post-facto meme generated by the movie's terrible buzz before it ever hit theaters. Lucasfilm made a mistake in allowing(?) the movie to be framed as "an origin story for Han Solo" as though he were another Marvel Superhero, when it should have been "a heist story featuring a young Han Solo." I'll have to disagree with you there. Tons of people (myself included) thought it was a terrible idea from the day it was announced. And everything people jokingly said would make it bad ended up in the movie, namely the thing "prequel" stories always have these days where everything is made into some super-significant item/event that all happened over the course of a weekend. We now have groan inducing "origins" for every item ever held and line ever muttered by Han or anything related to Han. And exactly as predicted it's all overly literal and missing the point. The Falcon doesn't talk weird because the ship is a jerry-rigged muscle car held together by the will of the force, It now has a groan inducing explanation so literal you wonder if the writers actually speak english. Now Hans name is because he is literally Solo, now he literally had someone teach him to shoot first as if the Greedo scene had any major in-universe importance to his life (it didn't), now Han's gun is some special weapon gifted to him by his mentor like Luke receiving his lightsaber, and on and on and on. Its like a comedy skit about how dumb these kinds of movies are played without a hint of self awareness. And people called it out from the start. Hell isn't there some screen junkies skit from like five years ago that joked about them doing all this and whoops turns out it all actually happened in the movie?
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Jul 7, 2018 09:31
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Bruceski posted:Any time you see a headline of "[actor] says they would love to be in [movie]" don't read it as some scoop of secret casting info or the like, read it as '[actor] would like a paying job, thanks." People put way too much of an onus on actors for "choosing" the roles they do. A guys gotta eat and you gotta go where they'll pay you. Outside of a role that endorses something really heinous people really need to stop blaming actors for bad roles (that aren't due to actual acting ability).
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Jul 9, 2018 00:43
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Why exactly was Lando not in the last two movies? Was there some real world reason? It just seems odd they'd leave him completely out.
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Jul 10, 2018 21:23
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It'll be the Maz Kanata scene all over again won't it.
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Jul 11, 2018 23:31
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jerk irl posted:The more movies they make, the better the chance we get one that doesn't suck. You forget that with every movie they use up more of the limited supply of good-movieite. And that was pretty much tapped out by Rogue One. Soon we'll have depleted our strategic reserves and be at the mercy of our enemies.
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Aug 7, 2018 20:54
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Angry Salami posted:Well, a running gag only really works if you do it three times. Twice, you're just repeating yourself. Finn will hire the Kaminoans to provide him with an endless amount of Phasma's. Whenever he feels like he needs to shake things up in his life he'll kill this month's delivery.
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Aug 9, 2018 05:26
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You can't just throw away a character like they did Snoke in TLJ after you just made him integral to not just the plot in general, but many main characters motivations in particular. Kylo does everything he's does explicitly because of Snoke. The First Order runs on Snoke and is shown to need him as a lynchpin. But if we ask the obvious "Why?" we're told "LOL not important" when it explicitly is.
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Aug 13, 2018 22:44
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Preston Waters posted:
Yeah! How dare people want a movie with narrative consistency, a sensical plot, and main characters with actual characterization!
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Aug 14, 2018 20:13
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In the OT we clearly see that Vader (and indeed all the Imperials) has his own agenda and as others have said, it was never a plot point just who specifically made him go Sith. Kylo meanwhile is from day one inextricably tied to Snoke, everything he does is done directly under the orders and direction of Snoke. All his motivations are explicitly stated to come from Snoke. For TLJ to kill him isn't "subversive" it's removing what is essentially the only thing driving the plot. It's like blowing up the Death Star and Tarkin in the first fifteen minutes of ANH. Snoke was literally the only thing that made the plot move or indeed even exist. All the First Order characters are solely defined by their devotion to the will of Snoke. The Resistance only exists to oppose Snoke. None of the good guys has a motivation that is not "Stop Snoke". In the OT the Empire was a whole system that needed bringing down. That while the Emperor is important the whole thing had to be smashed, hence the big Space Battle that mirrored the one in the Throne Room. We see its members are in it for themselves and try to screw each other over to increase their power. The PT and RO only further confirm its nature. The First Order on the other hand is practically selfless in its members willingness to sacrifice all for the cause of Snoke. Hux literally doesn't know what to do when he finds he's dead.
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Aug 15, 2018 09:29
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sponges posted:To summarize: Snoke is a lame Palpatine ripoff. Everything about him sucks, right down to his name. I think this is the real problem right here. Snoke is a terrible character who sucked even as a vague concept during the pre-production of TFA. Yet he is in practical terms the only character of true importance in the whole story. The movies are stuck between a rock and a hard place of Snoke being a character who can't be excised from the narrative, but simultaneously makes the movies worse for him existing. Every possible explanation for his backstory or identity would be bad and stupid. Yet the nature of the character means not having a backstory or identity is equally bad and stupid.
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Aug 15, 2018 22:49
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The problem is the ST threw out all the world-building, indeed the entire narrative, instead of building on it. You could have made a good trilogy about having to pick up the pieces after the galactic government collapses. Imagine a galaxy full of small independent polities. Where instead of having to lead ever more rebellions against ever more empires the new Heroes instead are having to protect the peace, forge understanding, and rebuild a New better Galactic Republic. That way you can have action and explosions (the titular Star Wars) without having to make the OT and all it's characters useless failures.
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Aug 16, 2018 06:59
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Dishwasher posted:I think the Empire was probably really good at the nuts and bolts of stability, especially coming off the Biggest War Ever Fought. Nobody lacked food at least not in the areas that would hamper the Empire politically, everyone was banded together under one flag (loved the propaganda videos set to an upbeat imperial march theme in Solo), and things were probaaly just fine for people like Random Walking Extra #39 and #219 because they were able to go about their lives, work their jobs, and feed their families. Just like our reality, the cops are still total dickheads but people will always immediately ask "What did they 'do' to get accosted and shot at?" without thinking they may be next in front of that rifle because, afterall, "they" aren't breaking the law (today). If the fact that the whole galaxy from nowhere places like Tatooine to the capital of the Empire itself immediately breaking out into massive celebrations at word of the Emperors death isn't a sign of deep, longstanding, discontent I don't know what is. From what we see in ANH and ESB the normal man on the street seems to suffer from the Empires rule. Biggs and Luke talk in the deleted scenes about how the Empire screws over poor farmers like Uncle Owen, we see Stormtroopers pushing aside what looks like a Soup Kitchen, Lando implies that places like Cloud City are crushed by the Imperial system and have to remain hidden, plus the fact him just saying "The Empire is moving in" is enough to cause Ice Cream Machine Man and the rest of the city to mass evacuate. Heck a government willing to blow up its own member states like Alderaan doesn't just jump straight to that point, it has to be the kind of govt. that's been stomping on its people for a while. This as others point out makes the New Republic seem just that much more pathetic. Since even with all that, nobody gives a drat about it and is literally willing to throw in/lay down for an Imperial successor state.
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Aug 20, 2018 08:38
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It's like you people don't remember that killing people with birth defects and believing it was cool and necessary to make themselves "badass" is not something real-world fascists believe and have literally done. Thinking 300 is not sincere is like thinking The Birth of a Nation is a satirical call for equal rights and the inherent dignity of all men.
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Aug 22, 2018 23:05
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If the "It was just Dillios' making poo poo up" reading was true everyone wouldn't still be supermodels in speedo's who do things in slow-mo during the last scene. Plus theres the fact that you ignore the hypocrisy of the audience/creators. The world is full of people who vehemently hate "fascism" but support many of it's tenets. Or how people often say things like "While I personally am against throwing babies off cliffs you can't deny society would be better if we did it!" and other instances of Doublethink. Just because Snyder is not a fascist (I assume) and did not make 300 as such doesn't mean elements of it don't exist in the work. Snyder by his own admission was just making a movie about awesome dudes fighting orc ninjas with a vague historical tie-in, but that does't mean unspoken ideas/biases etc. don't influence a creators work. I doubt I would call it fascist, but the movie is definitely right-leaning.
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Aug 23, 2018 02:11
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The issue here is that all of us - including Snyder - are well aware that action movies are not apolitical. We are all already aware that ‘orcs’ have racial connotations, and so on. You vastly overestimate many creators and audiences ability to not get, pretend to themselves to not get, or doublethink themselves into both getting and not getting, racial connotations with things like Orcs or space aliens.
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Aug 23, 2018 05:38
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Everyone who complains about Jyn's turn from cynic to rebel die-hard forgets the part where it happens right when she gets a letter from her freshly cadavered dad. Which reveals that instead of being a Imperial stooge like she thought, he was working for the good guys all along. It's exactly the sort of thing that would reignite her passion.
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Aug 25, 2018 02:42
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Hodgepodge posted:At the time, people inclined to read 300 as entirely sincere were also likely to be virulent homophobes, and yet... Fascists have always been obsessed with the idealized male form though. It contrasts them with the supposed decadence and effeminence of their enemies. Hell Fascists and Gay people don't even have a monopoly on that stuff. Was Michelangelo's David supposed to be Homoerotic? And I don't know what your talking about "everyone" being a homophobe.because to this day the overwhelming majority of people see no satire in 300. Unless by everyone you mean the fact that back when it came out most people were homophobes in some way in which case your right, but in a way that is meaningless.
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Aug 25, 2018 23:10
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The point is everyone was idealizing the male form in art. Of course some were gay because some of every group that's not specifically bigoted against them are gay (and sometimes even then).
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Aug 26, 2018 01:44
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The politics in the OT are vague enough that all we really know is that the Empire is totalitarian and evil while the Rebels like "freedom" and want to bring back a system that at least called itself democratic. The PT goes more in-depth explicitly showing that at least the "good" noble titles to be fancy names for elected positions like Padme being a Queen who had to get elected and then leave after her term was up. The Separatists are explicitly shown to be made of anti-democratic elements whose raison d'être is to get rid of governments power over big business. While the proto-rebellion is made of Senators disillusioned with the undemocratic turn the Republic itself has taken and make a secret cabal to reform it, which turns into the Rebellion. Funnily enough Bail Organa isn't a King in the prequels, which means he either got elected to Kingship after, or that The Empire has encouraged/forced planets into real-world style monarchies.
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Aug 28, 2018 09:43
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Wheat Loaf posted:The opening crawl says "taxation of trade routes" rather than taxes on Trade Federation profits or the incomes of its directors so it is a question of free trade versus protectionist tariffs; obviously, the Republic were basically trying to put up a wall around the Core planets - i.e. the rich, human-majority parts of the galaxy - and making the Outer Rim pay for it. A big corporation doesn't want to pay taxes that would lower its profit margins? Perish the thought, it must surely be noble intentions that caused them to brutally invade an unrelated planet and put its people in concentration camps. Literally nothing in the movies implies the Separatists are not Core Worlders themselves or supporters Outer Rim rights. The Republic is chock full of powerful aliens, Palpatine's right hand man is an alien, the Jedi council has only one non-alien member. Both Tatooine and Coruscant have similar human demographics and couldn't be farther away from each other. There is nothing to suggest that Humans are focused in any particular region at all.
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Aug 28, 2018 22:13
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I always wondered about the Gungans. They and the Naboo obviously have bad blood and are initially ready to throw each other to the wolves, but Obi-Wan implies they have some kind of "Symbiotic Relationship" that belies their apparent segregation. Are the Naboo buying those explosive goo balls on the sly? Are the Gungans running a black market in Chrome plating and Mediterranean Villas?
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Aug 28, 2018 23:14
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ungulateman posted:also the, like, Defining Thing about og star wars as a work of film is lucas' static camera work and how he uses it to emphasize the infinite sight lines he builds his compositions around He also films his action scenes way different than modern Hollywood (In a good way). You always know where everything is, where it's going, and how it works out. The ANH Obi-Wan vs. Vader fight may have been underwhelming because it's a geriatric and a man blinded by a hundred pounds of PVC armor, but the way it's shot still makes it exiting. And that's all before the spaceship bits, which he still hasn't been topped in.
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Sep 3, 2018 09:54
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I wouldn't put too much stock in the secret lovechild leaks. Equally "reliable" leaks for TLJ had the plot being about how that tree with the books was a Magic Tree that straight up created the force with it's tree magic and gave it to a brother and sister who started the Sith and Jedi respectively. And while I have no doubt J.J will publicly talk about "respecting and building off Johnson's work" I also bet he'll ignore it to do his own thing like he always does. And that includes Reylo which comes entirely from the non-Abrams TLJ.
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Sep 17, 2018 11:19
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Clone Wars had a thing with a family who embodied the aspects of the force but nothing about them founding the Jedi and Sith or there being a magic tree. Though I bet it gave whoever made up the magic tree story the idea.
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Sep 17, 2018 12:51
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