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murk posted:What lights are you using? Are they going to be enough for tomatoes?? I'm using http://timbergrowlights.com/model-4vs/. I believe it should be sufficient, although ideally I'd have a par meter to take measurements (I could use a lumen meter which is cheaper, but isn't exactly the right thing to be measuring)
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Jun 25, 2018 18:03
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Duck and Cover drilled some holes in concrete, how thrilling. I also picked up some pvc for a future possible trellis.
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Jun 26, 2018 02:01
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Duck and Cover posted:I'm using http://timbergrowlights.com/model-4vs/. I believe it should be sufficient, although ideally I'd have a par meter to take measurements (I could use a lumen meter which is cheaper, but isn't exactly the right thing to be measuring) I know it's not the right way to do it, but a ballpark figure can be calculated by just measuring the lux at leaf level then multiplying by 0.014 to get an approximation of umol/m2. The DLI is just that * 3600 (seconds per hour) * hours of light. Knowing that ballpark calculation has helped me stave off my desire to buy an expensive quantum flux meter, but only slightly!
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Jun 26, 2018 13:31
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CapnBry posted:I'm pretty sure that's going to be plenty powerful. My fixture is essentially one half of that (2x Vero COB + 1x driver) although under 150W total power. I could get up to 600umol/m2 at a distance of 12" and get a 35mol DLI at a 16 hour runtime which would be plenty for tomatoes. I totally want what this guy has. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhsGHIyrXw&t=28s Let's just see how much... https://www.amazon.com/Sekonic-C7000-C-7000-SpectroMaster-spectrometer/dp/B012ETCG60 Okay guess not.
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Jun 26, 2018 22:14
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Math time. At 410 watts (the kill a watt thing said 410 website totally says 400 watts) with energy at .21 per kilowatt hour and I'm running it at roughly 16 hours a day (I think it's actually 15 but whatever) we come to a cost of 21.44 $1.38 a day. Whelp that was a fun calculation. Since I'm lazy it could be very inaccurate but hey whatever.
Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Jun 27, 2018 |
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Jun 27, 2018 03:03
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Duck and Cover posted:I totally want what this guy has. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhsGHIyrXw&t=28s Let's just see how much... https://www.amazon.com/Sekonic-C7000-C-7000-SpectroMaster-spectrometer/dp/B012ETCG60 2700K CFL bulb  Vero 29 Gen 7 4000K COB LED  Blurple Red + Blue "3W" LED pair from eBay  The green is reading higher than anything else, and these lights aren't terribly strong in the green spectrum so I think it has to do with the webcam being extra sensitive there. Until just a few days ago I was considering building a Ottervis LGL Spectrophotometer because the price seemed right and the lenses seemed to be easy enough to come by. Then I noticed that the linear CCD he uses to capture the spectrum isn't "$7" as he lists, but it is a $30 part from Mouser, which he has made a custom driver PCB for, which then hooks up to an STM evaluation kit, which then is read by a Pi and suddenly that seven bucks is $200 in actual hardware. My enthusiasm waned when I considered how it would not be something I could just slap together from off the shelf parts.
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Jun 27, 2018 12:45
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Introducing my arch enemy.  One of these days I'll hit it with my head hard enough for something to actually break.
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Jun 28, 2018 21:42
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2016/07/06/cannabis-capitalist-scotts-miracle-gro-ceo-bets-big-on-pot-growers/#1655b3615512quote:Chris' role expanded quickly. Last year he helped lead the $120 million acquisition of General Hydroponics, which proved to be a tumultuous deal. The day before the agreement was to be finalized, Scotts' outside lawyers refused to sign off. Their problem: Even though General Hydroponics did not sell marijuana, its founder had been growing cannabis as part of a side R&D operation. Jim Hagedorn wanted to pay the founder a consulting fee to continue working on his research for Scotts Miracle-Gro. But the lawyers refused to go along with it. Seeing no other option, Hagedorn agreed to leave the research out altogether and wrapped up the deal. That legal team has not worked on any Scotts' hydroponics deals since. Undeterred, Hagedorn recently paid $120 million for a 75% stake in an Amsterdam-based lighting and hydroponics equipment outfit. Heh. Marijuana is so scary his lawyers didn't want deal with it. Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Jun 29, 2018 |
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Jun 28, 2018 23:12
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On one hand I don't need more nutrients presently on the other hand options! https://www.jacksnutrients.com/online-store/Individual-Grow-p101469431 . I have a problem sometimes where I keep buying things thinking "well this could be better I better try it" and that's the story of how I have too many safety razors.
Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Jun 29, 2018 |
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Jun 29, 2018 05:58
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Duck and Cover posted:I have a problem sometimes where I keep buying things thinking "well this could be better I better try it" and that's the story of how I have too many safety razors. But things could always be better, right? Gotta keep trying!
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Jun 29, 2018 13:18
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I lied while I should have enough for awhile I'm going through my maxibloom faster than I realized. It didn't help that I did a water change right after I did one two days a go because the water was all cloudy. Also I think I have the start of blossom end rot whatever it is I have some cal mag on it's way. https://www.amazon.com/Botanicare-CAL-MAG-Plant-Supplement-Formula/dp/B004JKBMRWCapnBry posted:When my pepper grow was coming to an end I wanted it to go out with an explosion of peppers and bought one of the bloom boosting additives to really kick it into high gear! Turns out the "bloom booster" was just 0-1-3 fertilizer you were supposed to add in half the quantity you add the main 3-part stuff. I could have achieved the same numbers just messing with the proportions of the 3-part stuff without having to pay $15 for a small amount of this junk. Maybe there was something in it that wasn't on the label? Either way it did jack (no noticeable increase or decrease of pepperblooms). This is a few months ago now and I am still sore about it apparently. I should get some Orca. My plants deserve mycorrhiza or as the cool growers seem to call them "bennies". It's amusing that the slang maurjauna growers use makes things sound more like drugs. (nutes!) Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Jun 30, 2018 |
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Jun 30, 2018 01:48
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I'm looking at nozzles. Very exciting. http://www.bete.com/PDFs/BETE_0713USA_Catalog.pdf I really dislike when I can't find the price for something without asking. Edit: I did however find this https://books.google.com/books?id=3...0PJ%208&f=false Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Jul 1, 2018 |
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Jul 1, 2018 23:42
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Oh there's no end to the science we can do! I got started on this when I saw an article on Hackaday about 3 years ago where some lady made her own grow light from LEDs sourced from Mouser. Wait, what?! I can get the kind of LEDs needed to make grow lights from my normal component supplier? About 45 seconds into googling building grow lights and every result was from some cannabis growers forum. It seems they're on the forefront of the technology, whereas commercially the indoor agriculture industry stopped at lettuce. (And especially head-scratching implementations like Kimbal Musk's trailer full of dangling 12V LED strips). Are you considering doing some sort of root sprayers? I am still thinking about how to change around my system or if I will at all. It occurred to me that I don't need the control bucket, I can just have like a vertical 1" PVC tube plumbed into the system and then put an overflow spilloff at the proper level that drains back down into the reservoir similar to how my ebb-and-flow tray (actually a storage tub with holes drilled in it) works currently. That allows me to have that modular bucket design that will reduce evaporative losses from filling a big square tub just to soak the plant that occupies 1/3 of the space. I wonder if I can take a net pot top ring and merge it with the fabric pots I have to make a greater depth... or if that even would be necessary. It's fun to just mess around with ideas. There is a youtuber called Albopepper who put out some interesting messaround videos trying different things like: Exchanging light intensity for duration while matching the same DLI Red vs Blue vs Purple vs CFL how light color changes plant physiology And a bunch of other comparison videos, although he started out using those old "UFO" led grow lights so just skip those because we're way beyond that now.
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Jul 2, 2018 13:31
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CapnBry posted:Oh there's no end to the science we can do! I got started on this when I saw an article on Hackaday about 3 years ago where some lady made her own grow light from LEDs sourced from Mouser. Wait, what?! I can get the kind of LEDs needed to make grow lights from my normal component supplier? About 45 seconds into googling building grow lights and every result was from some cannabis growers forum. It seems they're on the forefront of the technology, whereas commercially the indoor agriculture industry stopped at lettuce. (And especially head-scratching implementations like Kimbal Musk's trailer full of dangling 12V LED strips). Uh yeah grow light DYI is like super big. Some even care about the batch/bin whatever number for the leds they use because efficiency varies. I did fogponics as my first system and would probably want something capable of such a fine mist. The problem is that to accomplish that it looks like you're mucking around with higher pressure and that makes things harder, or dealing with ultrasonic foggers (like I did for my fogponics system but I'm not sure they're not leeching heavy metals etc into my solution). I actually have https://generalhydroponics.com/rainforest/ sitting around doing nothing so I probably should just use it. I wasn't willing to get a UFO light at the time I started this because something about cheapo Chinese electronics in a niche field doesn't appeal to me.
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Jul 2, 2018 17:21
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You are the weakest plant good bye. Killing that one off though did allow me to look at the roots. 
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Jul 2, 2018 22:37
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 The back left plant is grateful for the right ones sacrifice.
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Jul 11, 2018 23:04
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Whelp I got a dehumidifier since the basement was like 70%. While this solved my humidity issue it generates enough heat to bring the room temperature and thus my water temperature up.
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Jul 18, 2018 22:26
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Duck and Cover posted:Introducing my arch enemy. I had one of those in my basement and replaced it with a recessed can light. Highly recommended.
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Jul 23, 2018 12:19
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Had a taste of my first tomato, using my expert powers of deduction I believe it to be a lucid gem. The one in the back is green zebra, while the third one is presently unknown. (big rainbow, galaxy, carbon, or annis noire, )
Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Jul 24, 2018 |
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Jul 24, 2018 03:39
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I’ve been trying to mason jar kratky from seed. Few different things, tatsoi, Mizuna, Bibb lettuce, Thai basil, chard. I seem to get germination but then they die off. I think it’s rot. Medium is coir. I also tried papertowel/Tupperware germination and those also rotted out, too. I think the coir just holds TOO much water. Any tips to getting a germinated seed to decent size in a kratky setup?
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Jul 24, 2018 03:47
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GrAviTy84 posted:I’ve been trying to mason jar kratky from seed. Few different things, tatsoi, Mizuna, Bibb lettuce, Thai basil, chard. I seem to get germination but then they die off. I think it’s rot. Medium is coir. I also tried papertowel/Tupperware germination and those also rotted out, too. I think the coir just holds TOO much water. Any tips to getting a germinated seed to decent size in a kratky setup? While I haven't done Kraftky if there's too much moisture you could use another medium like hydroton that retains less of it or maybe it's as simple as your water level being too high. Google is probably more useful than my not so random guesses are. https://www.epicgardening.com/the-kratky-method/ Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Jul 24, 2018 |
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Jul 24, 2018 03:58
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I've always had a similar problem, although I've only been at this a few years / a dozen or so attempts. The seeds are just too small to be placed directly into the growstone media Ebb and Flow without being washed away. I started by using those little burpee seed starter pellets in their biodegradable fiber pots and it was a fine line between them holding too much water and rotting the seedlings, and them drying out entirely. The fiber pots also didn't last long enough to survive to planting with their structural integrity intact, starting to fall apart before I could get them into the ground. Then I tried seedling soil in plastic cells. That worked okish but I never left the plants in there long enough for them to lock in the soil and become a giant bundle of roots because it took too long. Lettuce only takes like 4-5 weeks start to finish and I don't want to spent the 2-3 weeks babysitting the tiny seedlings while they fill out enough roots to be able to move them into the hydroponic system. I also tried using the burpee "self watering mat" in this and the pellet setups and found it seemed to just keep the plants soggy. I'm now on those Jiffy pellets which are peat but in a little net sack that holds it all together, so there's no fiber pot on the outside to break down. These work not great either, requiring supervision because if you just keep them wet, the seedlings rot or don't get enough oxygen or something because they're really stunted while growing in the pellet. I've been trying to figure out what the exact amount of water I need to hit them with every day to keep them in the middle ground but they transfer over to the hydroponic system easily because they're so self-contained. When they get into the system, they are constantly soaking wet because in the media there's not a watering interval long enough for them to not be a wet sponge still while the roots outside of it are dry and crispy. I was (very slowly) growing some french lavender from seed in a setup with a jiffy pellet which I then planted in a 4" pot with a sandy well-draining soil. I was almost 2 months into it and it was just starting to grow beyond the 3" gangly mess it was and it needed to be watered. I've never killed a plant so fast in my life. I top watered with 1/2c of water and allowed it to drain thoroughly. In about 8 hours the gray-green leaves were noticeably brown. By bedtime it was mostly brown with hints of green here and there, and by morning it was an ex-lavender plant. I think the jiffy pellet just got waterlogged and killed it?  ^^ Above ^^ I'm now starting some experimental lavender seedlings again. I had an infinitely small seedling coming out and the pellet was looking a little dry last night so I gave it 3ml of distilled water. This morning the seedling was laying over so I rehydrated the pellet with 30ml of water and 10% strength hydroponic nutrient. I'm not sure it is going to make it. I also 3D printed a ~1.5" net pot I filled with the tiniest growstone media bits I could find in my bag. I placed a couple seeds in a cut piece of coffee filter placed in the middle of the growstones and covered with a dome. I checked them on Sunday and they had sprouted but hadn't been able to get around the growstone to break out, I don't believe they will be strong enough to make it. I also had the idea on Sunday to just soak a single growstone and lay a few seeds on it and just keep that stone moist inside the dome. It is staying plenty wet to germinate and I am hoping the roots will "latch on" to the tiny holes in the growstone and allow me to just plop it into a larger quantity of media? TL;DR I'd love to hear some new ideas on how to germinate seeds for insertion into a hydro system because I am really bad at getting from seedling to installed plant in my hydro system. CapnBry fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Jul 24, 2018 |
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Jul 24, 2018 16:49
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CapnBry posted:I've always had a similar problem, although I've only been at this a few years / a dozen or so attempts. The seeds are just too small to be placed directly into the growstone media Ebb and Flow without being washed away. I started by using those little burpee seed starter pellets in their biodegradable fiber pots and it was a fine line between them holding too much water and rotting the seedlings, and them drying out entirely. The fiber pots also didn't last long enough to survive to planting with their structural integrity intact, starting to fall apart before I could get them into the ground. I've used cut up nylon stockings in the past to hold seeds in place for an aeroponic system, it seemed to work.
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Jul 24, 2018 17:29
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My attempt: 50 grade cheese cloth + net cup  The cheese cloth I ordered online looked it had a 2-ply thing going on, so I separate the layers into just one layer like shown in pic above.  I put the cloth in the cup like above, but I try to avoid any cloth overlapping so roots can more easily get through. Then I put wet coco coir in. I germinated my Bibb seeds in the cups in the system directly and I haven't had an issue yet, but it's only been a week. I germinated my pepper seeds in coco coir in a pan then put them in a cheese cloth + net cup + coir and haven't had any issues either. My peppers are a tad over two weeks old now. I haven't seen more than two roots per cup get through yet though, so I'm hoping the roots don't get bound up in the cloth. Edit: I also trim the cloth so it doesn't hang over more than an inch off the top, that way the roots only have to go through the cloth once. I also lightly pack in the coir, I don't try to jam it in there too hard. CapnBry posted:This morning the seedling was laying over so I rehydrated the pellet with 30ml of water and 10% strength hydroponic nutrient. I'm not sure it is going to make it. ijii fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Jul 25, 2018 |
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Jul 25, 2018 07:26
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Well both of these are good ideas for me to add to my experiments list. I'm still hopeful that my one sprout will be able to make it out of the growstone prison I put it in, but I am not very optimistic. That other little guy in the plug is full-on dead now though. It was getting plenty of light for a seedling I think, about 250-300umol/s. They're just so drat touchy about watering. I might try to make a NEMA17 stepper-powered peristaltic pump to more precisely deliver small doses of water at accurate intervals to get them started? I just like building stuff and solving problems. Nevermind that I'll have nowhere to put these plants if they ever grow up. EDIT: Oh snap, wait! Some seedling has totally shawshanked the growstones. 
CapnBry fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Jul 26, 2018 |
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Jul 26, 2018 14:30
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Note to self: Next time when putting 1 inch - 2 inch seedlings into system, only put coir half way to 3/4 to top of net cup. That way, I can put more coir in to help support any leginess of seedlings as they grow. When germinating lettuce directly into system, I also need to bury the seed a tad more. For the same reason, I need to keep lights closer than 9 inches to top of cups. My seedlings are looking a bit leggy and need more support. My peppers are doing okay, but wish I could have more room to add more coir. I wish roots would hurry up and grow down into the reservoir so I don't have to keep the coir wet and damp, because either algae or mold want to move in on the surface. Changed out my nutes for 4 peppers, and will change out the other 4 tomorrow. I forgot about that letting water sit for 24 hours will allow some chlorine to evaporate. I'm using 1/2 strength nutes on the peppers still and adjusted PH to 6.2. I'm also setting up another 3 containers for more lettuce stuff, will take pics tomorrow.
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Jul 27, 2018 01:07
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I botched my bibb lettuce a bit at the start as mentioned above. A promising start on a few:  But even more are stretching too much or not buried in coir enough:  Here another attempt at germinating lettuce seeds, specifically buttercrunch with this batch:  Two to three seeds per cup and some extra room in case roots go straight down past the net cup. Left at least an inch of space on top in case I need to bury stem more. I went ahead and change out reservoir for the other 4 peppers plants.  My best plant so far.  In two weeks I'll go from half strength nutes to full strength nutes on my peppers.
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Jul 28, 2018 02:26
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Aww yeah now we're gettin' this hydroponics thread rolling. I picked up some San Marzano tomato seeds and sage seeds yesterday. I don't think I have the room in my tent to grow tomatoes but I think we're going to try. At the very least we'll be able to see something grow because this glacial lavender pace is really not giving me a lot to look at every day.
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Jul 28, 2018 12:40
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 Next time I do this I'm going to do some sort of horizontal netting or something. I do not appreciate tomatoes hiding in the foliage and not consistently supporting/pruning isn't helping. Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Jul 29, 2018 |
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Jul 29, 2018 02:26
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Duck and Cover posted:
The first day I put the buttercrunch seeds in, I didn't cover them and the coir got dry and nothing germinated. Next morning I poured water on top and covered with plastic and they all germinated. I decided to put net cups into mason jars and will do kratky style for a bit until I see some decent root growth.  One little guy shat down a good size root in two days.  I'll do pic updates on Friday on my peppers. The older leaves are curling upwards a little bit. There is a tiny bit of algae trying to grow so I'll clean the buckets Friday after work and grab a bottle of hydrogen peroxide. Many more roots are showing up, so that's a good sign.
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Jul 31, 2018 22:50
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ijii posted:What a tangled mess, can those buckets even be pulled apart? Them tomaters needs some organization. Sure the buckets can be pulled apart but as they are tubed together it would be a big mess. I did clean it up a bit yesterday. Oh and I bought some recharge (https://www.amazon.com/Real-Growers-Recharge-8oz/dp/B00J1CAEIG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1533075247&sr=8-1&keywords=recharge) because I love buying things. The more things I buy the more tomatoes I get right?  I've been considering getting high concentration hydrogen peroxide to use to clean everything when I'm done but the high concentration stuff would either require a trip to a hydroponic store or buying it online and Amazon no longer carries it due to government regulations. (additional shipping fees/requirements). Although if I'm just going to clean with it I suppose the 3% brown bottle stuff is fine, it does contain stabilizers so I'm not sure I'd use it directly in my nutrient solution. Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Aug 1, 2018 |
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Jul 31, 2018 23:15
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ijii posted:One little guy shat down a good size root in two days.  This may be my favorite part of growing plants is the first few weeks when they come out of nothing and explode with growth. Before they get into that uncertain part of pruning and training and getting good fruit from them. I'll tell you what I do not enjoy is the outdoors. Yesterday I was outside doing some light yard work and got stung in the loving face by a wasp and had a pretty severe allergic reaction. gently caress the outdoors. Indoor hydroponics for life!
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Aug 2, 2018 14:59
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Trying again with Kratky, I've started my seeds on paper towels in takeaway clamshells. This time I let them get hellllllla leggy and threaded the roots through the netpot and propped the plant up with coir. So far so good. Threading the delicate roots is a big PITA tho
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Aug 2, 2018 15:13
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Kratky seems to have plenty of issues, and having an airpump/air stone is so simple I just don't see it as worth doing.
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Aug 2, 2018 18:54
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I'm using Kratky only for germination to young seedlings until decent amount of roots show up. I'll thin them and then plug them into the system. It's easier to screw around with jars than bigger systems tethered to pumps and tubes. Also I can use this method to have seedlings on standby for when I harvest my foods. ------------------ My peppers are looking decent, but algae is rearing its ugly head. I was naive in hoping the white buckets would be fine, but it's not and tomorrow after work I'm going to do some cleaning and then tape them up. The blue taped tubs I'm using for lettuce seems to be holding up algae free, so that's promising. ijii fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Aug 3, 2018 |
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Aug 3, 2018 02:12
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ijii posted:I'm using Kratky only for germination to young seedlings until decent amount of roots show up. I'll thin them and then plug them into the system. It's easier to screw around with jars than bigger systems tethered to pumps and tubes. Also I can use this method to have seedlings on standby for when I harvest my foods. Oh sure that's pretty much what I did to germinate seeds with water being wicked up via growstones. Next time I might just use my aeroponic system, which while too tall for the florescent light stand might give me better cleaner roots.
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Aug 3, 2018 03:08
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Duck and Cover posted:Oh sure that's pretty much what I did to germinate seeds with water being wicked up via growstones. Next time I might just use my aeroponic system, which while too tall for the florescent light stand might give me better cleaner roots.   What I did here was an NFT system with a timed top drip irrigation. I just punctured tiny holes in 1/2 inch PVC and lined them up with the plants. As good as these plants looked, there were problems I was fighting: Aphids (minor problem) Hot reservoir (95 F) No type of trellis or support Leaf cutter bees Thirsty plants, I was going through a 50 gallon drum every 2 days Bugs making a nice home out of the peppers Rats!! at the end Not enough room for roots, they were pushing the plants up! Then finally a storm which which blew everything over. I was heartbroken because the storm blew over the plants and snapped many branches. I actually could have salvaged some of the plants but I had other issues that distracted me so I gave up. I'm really tempted to do another type of top drip system inside, I was really surprised how well the plants were doing in the AZ summer.
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Aug 3, 2018 04:42
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ijii posted:Aeroponics is the best, but too much a pain in the rear end for me. Several years ago I did something similar outside, and ultimately failed, but was flourishing at one point. My understanding is high pressure aeroponics/fogponics is the best followed by low pressure aeroponics for growth rate. I wouldn't do any fruiting crop in which if the system fails the crop will die quickly which includes aeroponics/nft. As far as trellis goes I'm planning on making something like this  . (except two tiers with adjustable height). I've considered trying out Floraflex top drip (https://floraflex.com/shop/) but decided I don't need yet another system. Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Aug 3, 2018 |
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Aug 3, 2018 06:46
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Yea, that's why I went with a DWC this time around. If electricity goes out or air pump dies, at least roots will be dangling in reservoir. I was thinking of doing a low level recirculating DWC with the low pressure aeroponics. I'll leave like 3 inches of reservoir on the bottom. I'm thinking of ordering another HLG LED quantum board and getting started on another set of fruiting crop, but their lights get sold out a lot.
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Aug 3, 2018 12:33
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ijii posted:Aeroponics is the best, but too much a pain in the rear end for me. Several years ago I did something similar outside, and ultimately failed, but was flourishing at one point. I love my Ebb and Flow system, but being based on a big 25x18x7" rectangular tub, there tends to be some wasted space that I need to flood, especially if there's only one plant in there. I fill the extra space with some old water bottles but it looks pretty unprofessional. I also have a few floating around in the res to help the submersible pump in there keep from running dry as my res is an even gianter rectangular tub so there's still over a gallon of juice in there when the pump starts sucking air. Speaking of outdoor systems though, has anyone seen any nice automated outdoor system small enough to have just one plant in it? I have a hydrangea on my back porch that I have to water with half a gallon every two days and it still looks droopy sometimes. I've considered one of those bucket-in-a-bucket things but they are so unsightly it offsets the beauty of growing flowers.
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Aug 3, 2018 13:41
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