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The passage to the past Mako tree being a mini puzzle tutorial area with no handholding is great game design for sure. When I was playing Ages as my first 2D Zelda* around age 7 (okay probably closer to 12 but that would be really embarrassing), it still stumped me. I could NOT figure out what to do with the very first room in it, you know, where you just have to push a block up one square. Why? - why would just PUSHING a block do anything? You'd need a button or killing all enemies (never mind that the latter also makes zero sense) for a door to open! - I did eventually try pushing it, but from the side. Nothing happened, so I immediately assumed "guess I need an item to move this" and hosed off to look for it. I also couldn't figure out how to save (I borrowed the game off a friend, so no manual) and eventually quit in exasperated frustration. I then replayed the beginning a day later after experimenting on how to save first (pushing Start + Select at the same time is honestly super not intuitive), and to the game's credit, in the present version of the mini-dungeon, there's a solid rock in the middle of the tiles showing that yes, this is how things have to be. I think that finally did the trick and I pushed it from below, solving the puzzle that kept me from continuing. *I did play LttP, but not super deeply. Years after eventually finishing Ages (making a lot more embarrassing mistakes along the way), I did get around to finish LttP on the GBA. Got super stumped again by the first puzzle in Turtle Rock, which is again just "use block with thing". It's always the most simple things...
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May 17, 2018 15:40
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| # ¿ May 17, 2024 15:01 |
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The first time I heard the term "Gatcha" was when Konami decided to not make videogames anymore, so a year ago? It's a great thing to realize now that the seeds are a pun, haha
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May 22, 2018 07:22
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I never realized that the exits were fixed, if nonsensical in the fairy confusion. I did figure out eventually (on my like third playthrough...) that you should just cycle up and down, but I didn't get that it would loop at some point... I got Ages on my 3DS, I'm tempted to play along. Overall I like it more than Seasons because Seasons is a little samey to me, but it's true that Ages has lower downs (and higher ups, imo).
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May 24, 2018 19:41
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I really hate this dungeon. It's boring and tedious and if you don't know it by heart, the constant left/right decisions where only one path is correct because it leads to a key you need a while into the other path make for a lot of backtracking if you randomly choose wrong. Also, when I was a dumb kid playing this, I kept getting stonewalled seemingly every room. Make the block rotate so green is on top when it falls in the hole? Impossible, how would you even do this??? (I've gotten better at "3D" thinking...) The miniboss? Kept kicking my rear end with his jumps and such (I didn't realize that he jumps more often based on his health). The room where you have to push the jug instead of, like, throwing it onto the switch somehow (it keeps breaking)? Completely unfathomable to my brain. Kept dying to the enemies everywhere as well. And then the boss, of course. I think I spent an entire hour trying to beat it at some point, frustrated almost to tears because the red face never came up (I didn't realize that it's not random, and that the bomb in fact has to drop into it while the red face is in front). The method I used was to ride the platforms until above it, then drop a bomb straight down. This works for two hits, and then he changes faces in exactly the correct rhythm to never have the red face in front while a platform is above (+ bomb drop time of course). It's insidious. But I couldn't give up and come back later because it took me so long to get there, as I kept dying to the enemies! The thing is, even with all those frustrations cleared up, it's still not a good dungeon. The puzzle where you can only move the currently "on" colour is always annoying (and that's why you had to speed it up). Making the coloured squares aling is always a bad time because the hitboxes on them are garbage. Aforementioned backtracking if you chose the wrong path. It's just never fun. The only redeeming feature it has is giving you the Roc feather. Hell, even getting to the dungeon is fuckoff annoying. I actually don't mind the next part as much as many people do, but I think that's coloured in no small way by my relief of finally, finally being out of the lovely dungeon with the lovely music and the godawful boss. One small thing: the map is such garbage with a lot of filler rooms because it's in the shape of a wing. They do that with a lot of dungeons in this game and it can be neat if it doesn't make the room-by-room design terrible, sadly here it does.
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May 27, 2018 21:31
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This entire sequence is so goddamn tedious. I always loathe it on replays. First a useless area full of holes (if you get the default animal, which I did), then an equally empty city. I got lost as well looking for the composer my first time, and then didn't understand that I had to play the song for him (it never TELLS you after you first get it that it's called the Song of Echoes so the hint was lost on me). That might colour my opinion, but still. The constant time changing with the song animations is annoying, and if you put the seed wrong or something it's the worst thing. Then you gently caress up the minigame again and again (as a kid, but it's still not trivial). Just garbage. At least the next dungeon has an awesome item and one of my favourite dungeon themes in the game  .
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Jun 6, 2018 20:13
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Silegna posted:Without Time Travel, literally nothing would get done. Also, we know Veran didn't do anything to Symmetry Village, so how the gently caress did it break?
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Jun 6, 2018 22:07
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cant cook creole bream posted:It's not a palindrome in my language, so I have nothing to be ashamed of. At least you won't be thinking of seeds...
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Jun 6, 2018 23:13
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I really like how this dungeon wraps back on itself; it's still linear with some offshoots, but you keep going back to previous rooms a ledge higher, but you can't fall down and screw yourself. It's also a huge step up in difficulty not necessarily from puzzles, but just from enemies wearing you down. A huge sticking point is the room with the traps where you have to push the cube; screw the boss (though it's a total rear end in a top hat as well), doing that no-hit is close to impossible. And then you have to deal with the hit detection on the moving platforms... I also don't think the miniboss is quite as easy as you make it out to be; the sword does a lot of damage iirc, and if you're still low from all the nonsense before...also, it took me a WHILE to figure it out as a kid, first trying with the sword, then with bombs, then all the seed types...and each attempt would usually cost me a death. So I had to rerun the entiiiiire gauntlet. Got me finally good at the game, but it is rather grating.
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Jun 11, 2018 12:22
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I really hate that mountain because you can get so lost in those caves. Just wander through them over and over and over again trying to find out what the critical path is. Get early to the Great Moblin's place? Fall down, have to climb out. Run out of bombs, have to farm them. The worst. Nothing to show for it. Get to the door? Whoops, have to get the key first! Better jump down and do the cave again. And the absolute worst part of it all? That small gap in the ledge in the present mountaintop. If you decide to jump down there, you land at the very bottom of the mountain and have to do all that poo poo again. I get why they have a shortcut, but...argh.
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Jun 14, 2018 20:39
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My biggest problem with this dungeon is that it is very, very nonlinear but still requires you to follow a very specific order of events. You need to get the Cane first, then four keys, then open four key doors to get the boss key, and you can reach the boss door from the start. If you deviate from this, you'll run into a dead end, but those dead ends can take quite a while to appear. Even in the video you took like three different paths, glimpsing into rooms, realizing they're the wrong ones and going back until finding the one you knew was correct. If you don't know that...have fun stumbling into dead end pathways for a while until you happen to find the correct one! Even if you do get the cane first and, like, two keys, you can then still deviate from the rigid structure, open the first key door, open the second key door, go quite a ways in and...hit the brick wall of the third key door. Then you grumble, go back to the start, get a third key, open that door, surprise! You need another key! There is no way to tell that this is going to be the case, and it makes exploring this dungeon super loving annoying. I don't think I even realized that this is the one-and-only true way to go through it, I just always stumbled around forever until I happened to have enough keys for the critical path. The second phase of the boss also sucks fat balls. At least in German, it's called Kronenkaverne which rolls off the tongue quite nicely! Used often in complaining about it.
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Jun 18, 2018 07:04
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It's really weird, I know all about dat minigame but I remember nothing at all of the next dungeon. Well, maybe the overall gimmick? Probably because it is actually good and you tend to remember the tedious annoying poo poo more than the stuff you breezed through. I do remember the next dungeon quite clearly, ha.
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Jun 18, 2018 23:38
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SgtSteel91 posted:Agreed, I got stuck on that dumb minigame for weeks when I first played OoA Now let me tell you about how I still haven't beaten Spirit Tracks because of that dumbshit fluting...
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Jun 20, 2018 23:48
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I, too, got stumped (heh) by this dungeon at first because of the bombable wall. I played Ages first and bombs were such a big deal there that it threw me off completely when you just...got them in Seasons.
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Jul 18, 2018 14:11
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I'm pretty sure, looking back, that Seasons gives you bombs just like that because that's what Zelda 1 also did.
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Jul 19, 2018 08:33
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Always found this dungeon to be pretty tedious and annoying. It's got a LOT of path choices, of which only one is correct, the other will waste your time because you don't have the key needed yet. The path to the boss door you erroneously went to early is just one example. Also it took me forEVER when I first played this to figure out the "black beast" island thing.
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Aug 15, 2018 19:17
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Sure would suck to fall down that hole to the lowest floor right before the Magic Boomerang room before getting it... ... Otherwise this is such a cool action dungeon (and boss) (and item). I'm kinda eh on Seasons in general compared to Ages, but this one part is a standout to me.
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Aug 22, 2018 19:57
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There's a shield in the 2D Zelda games? I only remember a spiny-flipping plank with no other uses. Another small annoyance when going back to LA after the Oracles (which is how I played them): "solved" rooms keep playing the "you did a thing!" jingle, even when it's just an empty room full of non-respawning enemies you had to kill to open the door. Or when you re-kill stuff. Gets old really fast.
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Sep 13, 2018 11:56
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KieranWalker posted:I'm late on this, but I want to comment on the mineral water from video 4. I think it's kinda bullshit; it's just a repeat of the usual "water plant, use it to climb" gimmick, but oh noes, this one (and only this one) requires special water. If they'd reused it 3, 4 times maybe, perhaps hidden some neat items or something behind it, sure. But using it once or (optionally) twice through the entire game? That feels to me like padding; wasting the player's time with an annoying fetch quest in the interest of adding a couple of minutes of playtime. However, I tried replaying it a fourth and fifth time and both of those just fizzled out, the latest in Mt. Krenel, and I know exactly why. A lot of Minish Cap is almost needless busywork. The game play so smoothly that you don't notice it at first, but there is a LOT of backtracking, block pushing, floating, shrinking, growing and so on to be done that is just not that fun. Many, many "puzzles" in Minish Cap are almost painfully obvious, far more so than in the other games we've seen in this thread, and that means you know exactly what to do - you just...gotta do it. And that's often simply not as fun. Push something, shrink, activate another thing, go back, grow, go through the unlocked route - that's the template for so many things you do. The thing is, it's often quite clever in that there's a vast array of different things to push and activate and fiddle with, so much work put into making unique sprites, but after you've done it once the sheen is off severely. And you start noticing, or at least I do, that you're gonna spend the next three minutes not "solving" a puzzle but rather just "working" on getting through a room. And that's not fun! The game does have a lot of great moments. In fact, I think everything they want you to use the Cane of Pacci for in the dungeon is amazing, and some of the timing puzzles with the floating platforms are pretty challenging, require good timing, thinking on your feet, and are therefore fun. I enjoy all the uses the Gust Jar gets. I don't even mind Kinstone Fusion. Overall, though, I don't want to replay Minish Cap anymore, and I am this very moment replaying Oracle of Ages because that's always fun to me. There is a difference, and I think it really is down to how trivial Minish Cap often is and how much time you nevertheless have to spend to get that trivial poo poo out of the way.
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Dec 9, 2018 00:31
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| # ¿ May 17, 2024 15:01 |
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The goddamn owl is still in there talking about some bullshit, 0/10 game
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Feb 14, 2019 11:06
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