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Check out citizenship by descent for whatever your background is. If you've got Polish, Italian, or Irish grandparents you might be eligible to get citizenship in one of those countries, which would allow you into France. Also Germany if your grandad was German and Jewish and got a victim of Nazis. All of these are fairly limited but worth checking out. I live abroad in Latin America and hate it but my (non US) wife is terrified of Trump so here we are. I can answer general questions about living abroad but obviously not specific French or EU stuff.
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Jun 25, 2018 14:22
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Thanatosian posted:This is something I've been giving a significant amount of thought to over the past few months. I don't like the direction things are going in the U.S., and while I recognize that things are going the same direction in the EU in a lot of ways, so far France has managed to fight off the worst of Le Front Nationale and the Le Pens. I choose France because it's an EU country that is unlikely to Frexit anytime soon, has the sort of weather I like, and I speak some French (four years of high school french, a year of college French, and a month in France about 20 years ago, I would describe myself as "not quite conversational;" I've been using DuoLingo to brush up over the past few weeks). Honestly, if you're worried about Trump or alt-right sentiment the safest place from that probably is in the United States. In the US you have due process protections and rights that prevent the Trump camp from just arbitrarily targeting you. In a foreign country you don't. The US is extremely dominant both militarily and economically right now and Trump can dumpster pretty much any other country he wants basically at his whim. You do not want to be living in the EU if Trump decides to go through with his threat to zero out the trade deficit. Xequecal fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Jun 25, 2018 |
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Jun 25, 2018 16:00
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Xequecal posted:Honestly, if you're worried about Trump or alt-right sentiment the safest place from that probably is in the United States. In the US you have due process protections and rights that prevent the Trump camp from just arbitrarily targeting you. In a foreign country you don't. The US is extremely dominant both militarily and economically right now and Trump can dumpster pretty much any other country he wants basically at his whim. You do not want to be living in the EU if Trump decides to go through with his threat to zero out the trade deficit. The EU as a trading bloc is the same size as the US and one of the things it is actually very good at is, in fact, being a trading bloc. If Trump really did go to the mattresses over trade the US would suffer just as badly from EU retaliation so you'd be hosed either way. As for militarily. ..France is a nuclear power within NATO. it's not going to get drone striked, come on now.
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Jun 25, 2018 19:51
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Hellblazer187 posted:Check out citizenship by descent for whatever your background is. If you've got Polish, Italian, or Irish grandparents you might be eligible to get citizenship in one of those countries, which would allow you into France. Also Germany if your grandad was German and Jewish and got a victim of Nazis. All of these are fairly limited but worth checking out. And while I'm not going to say Trump has nothing to do with me wanting to move, he's more of a symptom than an actual cause. It's more general economic and political trends here that I'm trying to get away from, and while I recognize that the EU is far from perfect, it's not having the problems to quite the same degree. Ham Equity fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Jun 25, 2018 |
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Jun 25, 2018 20:02
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Thanatosian posted:it's not having the problems to quite the same degree. I'm not intending to be a complete dick here but how much time have you spent in the EU in the last, say, 36 months? Keep in mind that as a tourist you are certainly interacting with the most open-minded and cosmopolitan sector of society.
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Jun 25, 2018 20:10
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All the people making GBS threads on this are just ignoring health care. If you can get in to one of those countries and get in the system you probably have a better life than most Americans. Let me know if the Italian citizenship thing works for you. I honestly don't know much about it but I know someone who did it.
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Jun 26, 2018 04:16
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I'm not intending to be a complete dick here but how much time have you spent in the EU in the last, say, 36 months? Keep in mind that as a tourist you are certainly interacting with the most open-minded and cosmopolitan sector of society. Hellblazer187 posted:All the people making GBS threads on this are just ignoring health care. If you can get in to one of those countries and get in the system you probably have a better life than most Americans. A little digging and my grandfather wasn't born in Italy, so I have to some more digging to figure out where in Italy, exactly, my great-grandparents were born, and when they left. The process looks to be not too complicated, and not as expensive as I was thinking it would be (most expensive part seems like it will be getting the necessary documents translated into Italian). Definitely looks hella time-consuming, though.
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Jun 26, 2018 07:34
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Italy is pretty awful though. High unemployment, crime, and a language that is pretty much useless outside of Italy and a few pockets of Switzerland...
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Jun 27, 2018 06:34
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Xequecal posted:The US is extremely dominant both militarily and economically right now and Trump can dumpster pretty much any other country he wants basically at his whim. You do not want to be living in the EU if Trump decides to go through with his threat to zero out the trade deficit. none of this is true
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Jun 27, 2018 07:23
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Crayvex posted:Italy is pretty awful though. High unemployment, crime, and a language that is pretty much useless outside of Italy and a few pockets of Switzerland... Great country to visit, poo poo country to live in or work in.
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Jun 27, 2018 12:05
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feedmegin posted:The EU as a trading bloc is the same size as the US and one of the things it is actually very good at is, in fact, being a trading bloc. If Trump really did go to the mattresses over trade the US would suffer just as badly from EU retaliation so you'd be hosed either way. Well, obviously not, but getting drone striked isn't the issue here. In the US Trump can't mess with, say, your health care without Congress. However in his prescription drug plan he basically outright promises to cut US drug prices by extorting the balance from Europe, and that's something he absolutely can do. The fact of the matter is the EU has a $125 billion trade surplus and this represents a lot of jobs. Not only does the EU have more to lose than the US does, but unemployment in the US is under 4%. The economy can take a hit and still be in good shape. Unemployment in France is 9%. They're not going to do so well if Trump gets aggressive with his trade wars.
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Jun 27, 2018 13:07
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unemployment isn't a directly comparable metric for a litany of reasons. one of the major ones is the structure of the employment market. Most EU countries have relatively high minimum wages, low income inequality, a strong welfare state, and low mobility between jobs. All of these contribute to higher unemployment rates. The US has low minimum wages, high income inequality, a weak welfare state, and relatively high mobility between jobs. These all contribute to relatively low unemployment rates.
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Jun 27, 2018 14:29
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Crayvex posted:Italy is pretty awful though. High unemployment, crime, and a language that is pretty much useless outside of Italy and a few pockets of Switzerland...
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Jun 27, 2018 15:45
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If you're far left then Seattle is probably one of the best places you can be. Especially if you think that left-leaning people need to be on the run from some huge rising alt-right universe. Seattle really is pretty super left. I loved it up there. If Seattle isn't left enough for you, I have no idea where to tell you to go but it isn't France.
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Jun 27, 2018 17:24
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:If you're far left then Seattle is probably one of the best places you can be. Especially if you think that left-leaning people need to be on the run from some huge rising alt-right universe. Seattle really is pretty super left. I loved it up there. If Seattle isn't left enough for you, I have no idea where to tell you to go but it isn't France. Washington State has the most regressive tax structure in the country, and Jeff Bezos just wrote a very small check to buy himself a tax rebate. Despite a massive housing crisis, the NIMBYs exert a tremendous amount of influence to prevent new development, especially development of anything that isn't more single-family housing or incredibly expensive luxury apartments. Seattle is very leftist in a lot of ways--especially socially--and economically, puts on a strong progressive front, but when the rubber actually hits the road, things on the economic front tend to be a lot more conservative.
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Jun 27, 2018 18:12
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I live in a liberal city in the US and plenty of the living-in-America oddities (in particular the awful healthcare system) still hold regardless. Thanatosian posted:I have no intention of moving to Italy. But my understanding is that once you have an EU passport, it's much, much easier to move to other EU countries; am I incorrect? You are correct, although I have no idea how the process for obtaining Italian citizenship works in your case.
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Jun 27, 2018 22:05
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Xequecal posted:Well, obviously not, but getting drone striked isn't the issue here. In the US Trump can't mess with, say, your health care without Congress. However in his prescription drug plan he basically outright promises to cut US drug prices by extorting the balance from Europe, and that's something he absolutely can do. The OP did say 'militarily'. Also I'm sorry but I am definitely not buying the implication of 'you are better off in the US healthcare system than France's in the event of a trade war'! The nice thing about EU healthcare is not having to pay 'free market' prices for drugs as an individual. Also also Congress has the ability to rein in the President over trade if it wants to - tariffs are explicitly supposed to be Congress's responsibility in fact. It chooses not to.
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Jun 27, 2018 22:52
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Thanatosian posted:A little digging and my grandfather wasn't born in Italy, so I have to some more digging to figure out where in Italy, exactly, my great-grandparents were born, and when they left. The process looks to be not too complicated, and not as expensive as I was thinking it would be (most expensive part seems like it will be getting the necessary documents translated into Italian). Definitely looks hella time-consuming, though. Prepare yourself for the most incomprehensibly incompetent and corrupt bureaucratic process you can possibly imagine. You need to be an expert in whatever process you're trying to complete as well as speak idiot-proof Italian, because at some point you will run into some clown who just doesn't want to do the thing you want and will fixate relentlessly on any mistake you've made or form you're lacking or just make up some bullshit to send you away. Never give any extra information, only what is required--and you should always know what is required or you'll get fobbed off. Best solution, make friends with someone in the embassy and then you'll have half a chance. Source: my wife's Italian and I've been with her a couple of times to get things done. Here are some of the things I've seen.
Good luck with your citizenship application!
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Jun 27, 2018 23:44
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:If you're far left then Seattle is probably one of the best places you can be. Especially if you think that left-leaning people need to be on the run from some huge rising alt-right universe. Seattle really is pretty super left. I loved it up there. If Seattle isn't left enough for you, I have no idea where to tell you to go but it isn't France. Seattle is full of tech bro libertarians and nazis though? And east washington is one giant klan rally. Those ancestory ways to citzenship are kind of a scam. They will tell you to get hosed with out an absurd amount of proof like your grandmas birth certificate from 1930. I suggest if you plan to to go that route you find a lawyer in the country to stream line it for you. Also I think most countries with those repatriation laws dont just hand you an eu citizenship when you land in the country you have to wait x years. If youre in IT learn cobol if the market for jobs is anything like in america you can walk into a french bank spit in their face call them cheese loving surrender monkeys and then mention you know cobol and are looking for a job and you can probably walk out with a job. alot of what i said is hyperbole but for reals cobol is job generating machine and the pacific northwest isnt as left leaning as people think snergle fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Jul 8, 2018 |
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Jul 8, 2018 05:27
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Hellblazer187 posted:All the people making GBS threads on this are just ignoring health care. If you can get in to one of those countries and get in the system you probably have a better life than most Americans. Healthcare in the EU, or hell basically any other first world country, is wildly better than in the United States. As an American, If any point in your health care for an event occurs outside of your network you are likely bankrupt. I posted this question in the small questions megathread; is there a general expatriating thread?
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Jul 8, 2018 19:28
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Seattle is about the most left a place in America can be but it’s still centrist at best compared to actually democratic areas in the EU
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Jul 8, 2018 19:30
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If someone refers to Europe and not at least a region of a country, they’re full of poo poo, hth.
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Jul 8, 2018 20:33
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Becoming an expat in France or whatever is certainly possible and people do all the time. However OP I would say that your chance of success with your current plan is pretty much zero and more importantly your motivation is all hosed up. To move to France you need to have a specific desire to go and live in that country and to that region or city, and particularly in France you should have a really good level of the language before attempting this. All I see in your post is wanting to get away from what's on the news coupled with having taken French 101. If you actually want to live abroad get skilled up in your job and join a big global company that will allow you to do an internal transfer to a different office. I suspect that being a computer toucher is not the best career to do this. Having moved to Switzerland this year as an EU citizen it still hasn't been completely straightforward, even with a pretty comprehensive relocation package.
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Jul 9, 2018 06:23
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if you're under the age of 40 and actually need healthcare, you've got problems
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Jul 9, 2018 07:39
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snergle posted:Seattle is full of tech bro libertarians and nazis though? And east washington is one giant klan rally. Seattle/Washington popular leftism is like  personified.
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Jul 9, 2018 08:34
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Straight White Shark posted:I know several people that have done it. The most reliable track in is to have multiple advanced degrees (or comparably demanding skillsets.) If a company wants to hire someone to do X, they'll have a hard time getting permission to import a foreigner to do it because there are probably loads of French people who can do X, but if they need someone who can do X and Y that's a much narrower talent pool and they'll usually get the go ahead to hire someone in. snergle posted:Seattle is full of tech bro libertarians and nazis though?
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Jul 9, 2018 10:20
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Ein cooler Typ posted:if you're under the age of 40 and actually need healthcare, you've got problems This is presumably the line of thought that ends up with 40 million uninsured Americans.
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Jul 9, 2018 11:11
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Ein cooler Typ posted:if you're under the age of 40 and actually need healthcare, you've got problems Accidents don't happen to people younger than 40 years old in the US? Also cancer immunity? No hereditary diseases?
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Jul 9, 2018 20:09
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i love how important mid-level it dudes think they are you are not important
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Jul 10, 2018 12:49
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Ein cooler Typ posted:if you're under the age of 40 and actually need healthcare, you've got problems The gently caress this means?!?
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Jul 10, 2018 15:08
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NihilismNow posted:Accidents don't happen to people younger than 40 years old in the US? Also cancer immunity? No hereditary diseases? Also childbirth is still somewhat common in that age group.
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Jul 10, 2018 15:23
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If you're just out for healtchare wouldn't it be waaaaay easier to just move to Canada? Or possibly an English-speaking country like Britain, Australia or NZ?
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Jul 10, 2018 21:22
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Randarkman posted:If you're just out for healtchare wouldn't it be waaaaay easier to just move to Canada? Or possibly an English-speaking country like Britain, Australia or NZ? I have explicitly stated that it is not about healthcare. I mean, I favor universal healthcare and all, and living someplace where I wouldn't have to rely on my job for healthcare would be really nice, but it's not the main reason, or even all that much of a consideration.
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Jul 10, 2018 22:06
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Yeah man speaking as an american who went to school in Canada and speaks fluent french you are not leaving the country. Take Hegel as a guide and get a phd in Pikeology.
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Jul 10, 2018 22:27
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Take Hegel as a guide and get a phd in Pikeology.
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Jul 11, 2018 00:57
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I think countries publish lists of what skills they want immigrants to have. Maybe France really needs like Welders or some poo poo.
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Jul 11, 2018 03:33
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HEY GUNS posted:i mean i'm not important either but at least i can stab people now France actually does have a track for immigrants who are real good at fighting...
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Jul 11, 2018 04:00
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Randarkman posted:If you're just out for healtchare wouldn't it be waaaaay easier to just move to Canada? Or possibly an English-speaking country like Britain, Australia or NZ? I'm explicitly in it for healthcare. And I like Canada. thanks randarkman lol @ moving to Australia though. The purpose is to get good healthcare, not to be immediately killed by venomous crocodile spiders
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Jul 11, 2018 18:31
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OP as a guy who has lived and worked in France on and off a few times over the years, I'm afraid that I have to repeat what others have been saying in that your plan seems unlikely to succeed. As has been said, France is pretty hard on immigrants, especially those who don't speak French drat near perfectly. You'll have to jump through endless hoops for every little thing, from getting a bank account to signing up for electricity. I speak French at the near-native level and honestly I'm still not sure how I managed to get through some of those hoops. I remember at the bank being told that I couldn't open up a checking account without having a document that you basically could only get if you had a checking account or had a sponsor. In the end, I basically just begged the dude to help me out and oddly enough he did. I could go on and on about the French bureaucracy for quite some time but one important thing (and I can't stress this enough) is that you don't speak excellent French or have someone who can basically do a lot of poo poo for you, you are gonna have a hell of a hard time. French people don't speak English nearly as well as other Europeans and even when they do, they often chose not to do so. Finally, if you really are serious and really really want to try this out for a year or two, you can always try taking a lecteur position at a French University to teach English if you have a Masters degree. This path may not even be possible if you don't have a current professional affiliation with a university though. Even if you do get the job, it sucks hard, the pay is awful and the vaunted health care isn't something that you are going to easily access for years unless you get lucky. I'd rethink this plan if I were you. Becoming an expat of any sort is likely to make your life much harder, not easier.
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Jul 12, 2018 02:29
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Giggle Goose posted:
I want to echo this for the OP and in general. I’m a white jew who speaks english and french as mother languages (france french not québécois but still) and did most of my schooling in Canada. I was as desireable an immigrant as could be to the shittiest most xenophobic canadian, and going from the US to Canada is definitely among the least culturally stressful migrations possible. But eventually it got too much and I went home. I desperately miss my other home up north but godDAM it is easier to breathe knowing I don’t have to worry about all the things I used to have to worry about. And then you mention France as your idea destination bc you took it in high school, hooooo boy. I learned to read in french before english but my cousins in Alsace still make fun of my accent. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Jul 12, 2018 |
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Jul 12, 2018 02:58
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