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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Yeah this is exactly the problem. You keep saying that but you refuse to explain why. Is there a reason Quantic Dream can't separate the real world events from the baggage they carry, from the real people that were affected? Is there a reason you can't? CJacobs fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Jun 24, 2018 |
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Jun 24, 2018 01:47
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CJacobs posted:You keep saying that but you refuse to explain why. Is there a reason they can't separate the real world events from the baggage they carry, from the real people that were affected? Is there a reason you can't?  Ever think that maybe separating the real world connections to the single most horrific thing in the entire History of the United states is a really stupid idea? Or invoking imagery of the single largest genocide in western history is cheap and horrible thing to do?' Instead of giving us compelling and original reasons to connect and empathize with the plight of the androids, he simply takes real world tragedies, strips them of their actual context, and presents them as if they are wholly new and original events. Its bad writing and its borderline offensive. Paul Zuvella fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Jun 24, 2018 |
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Jun 24, 2018 01:53
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Not every piece of media has to reflect the message you want. If the only thing "wrong" with it is that it doesn't advance your particular message then find something else that does or make your own game. The creators wanted to focus on the idea that intelligence isn't a uniquely human thing and making it about race relations in the US would have nothing to do with that point. The MLK / civil rights stuff only exists to anchor it in something familiar. Is it cheap? Maybe, but it's probably realistic. I would want to associate my cause with historically significant and important causes too. You read the civil rights stuff as pandering to the player, but it's not. It's pandering to the in-game humans and it's probably the smart way to go if it was real life. You don't have to care about that particular issue but it's what the game is about. KillHour fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Jun 24, 2018 |
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Jun 24, 2018 02:01
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KillHour posted:Not every piece of media has to reflect the message you want. If the only thing "wrong" with it is that it doesn't advance your particular message then find something else that does or make your own game. The creators wanted to focus on the idea that intelligence isn't a uniquely human thing and making it about race relations in the US would have nothing to do with that point. The MLK / civil rights stuff only exists to anchor it in something familiar. what are you even loving talking about lmao. We are posting criticisms of game you goober. I didnt realize this was the David Cage jerk off corner
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Jun 24, 2018 02:02
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Paul Zuvella posted:what are you even loving talking about lmao. We are posting criticisms of game you goober. I didnt realize this was the David Cage jerk off corner Your criticism is that the game isn't about what you want it to be about. That's dumb.
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Jun 24, 2018 02:05
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KillHour posted:Your criticism is that the game isn't about what you want it to be about. That's dumb. he's right david cage, again, doesn't actually know anything about anything, so he cadges popular movements to make his hackneyed points without considering the cultural baggage of the former there's a reason that connor's section gets the most grudging respect from people and that's because it's the furthest removed from cage's attempt to use the civil rights movement as an emotional shortcut for his fifth-rate blade runner ripoff
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Jun 24, 2018 02:06
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Oxxidation posted:he's right I'm reading it differently. It's not about winking to the camera and saying "Hey player, this is totally like the civil rights issue, am I right?" The in game characters are using the imagery to push their agenda with other in game characters. If I was an actual leader of a revolutionary group, I would probably steal iconic imagery left and right because it's good propaganda. It's realistic.
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Jun 24, 2018 02:10
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KillHour posted:I'm reading it differently. you're reading it wrong
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Jun 24, 2018 02:10
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Oxxidation posted:you're reading it wrong I should care that you think that because? 
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Jun 24, 2018 02:11
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KillHour posted:I'm reading it differently. It's not about winking to the camera and saying "Hey player, this is totally like the civil rights issue, am I right?" The in game characters are using the imagery to push their agenda with other in game characters. If I was an actual leader of a revolutionary group, I would probably steal iconic imagery left and right because it's good propaganda. It's realistic. You're reading into it incredibly wrong.
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Jun 24, 2018 02:12
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imagine ever touching a quantic dreams title and thinking that the sexual predator behind those wall-to-wall cliches can actually be capable of anything remotely clever
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Jun 24, 2018 02:12
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KillHour posted:I'm reading it differently. It's not about winking to the camera and saying "Hey player, this is totally like the civil rights issue, am I right?" The in game characters are using the imagery to push their agenda with other in game characters. If I was an actual leader of a revolutionary group, I would probably steal iconic imagery left and right because it's good propaganda. It's realistic. The robots have to sit at the back of the bus.
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Jun 24, 2018 02:14
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Paul Zuvella posted:You're reading into it incredibly wrong. Or maybe you are. I can appreciate it; you can't. I enjoyed it more interpreting it my way. I'm sorry you think that media has some objective truth, but it really doesn't. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_the_Author SpiderHyphenMan posted:The robots have to sit at the back of the bus. The only thing unrealistic about that is that they have a window so they can stare unnervingly at the human passengers without blinking. In real life it would be more like a cargo hold. KillHour fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Jun 24, 2018 |
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Jun 24, 2018 02:14
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Oxxidation posted:imagine ever touching a quantic dreams title and thinking that the sexual predator behind those wall-to-wall cliches can actually be capable of anything remotely clever Thats the frustrating thing about Detroit. There is an actual subtle, good, fun interesting character driven story in Connor/Hank that he manages to succeed with. Its just buried in a sea of loud, wet farts.
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Jun 24, 2018 02:15
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:The robots have to sit at the back of the bus. and the recycling center is styled off death camps right down to the showers racism isn't just something co-opted by the characters as an in-story decision, it's woven right into the narrative by the imbecile frenchman (quebecois, whatever) in charge of the game Paul Zuvella posted:Thats the frustrating thing about Detroit. There is an actual subtle, good, fun interesting character driven story in Connor/Hank that he manages to succeed with. Its just buried in a sea of loud, wet farts. connor's storyline is also a sea of cliche, it's just cliche that a) cage already finished loving up several times before, which is the closest he can come to actual experience, and b) is pulled groaning and bleeding over the finish line by the efforts of the actors involved everything good about cage's games is good in spite of him and i wish the people who craft, design and voice these titles could do so with someone remotely competent in charge Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Jun 24, 2018 |
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Jun 24, 2018 02:15
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KillHour posted:Or maybe you are. I can appreciate it; you can't. I enjoyed it more interpreting it my way. I'm sorry you think that media has some objective truth, but it really doesn't. Your entire argument is "I'm right, you're wrong, Stop posting!" and its really loving stupid. e: let me make this clear; I dont think you are stupid for how you responded or interpreted the game, nor do I think you are bad or racist or anything. I just think David Cage is a lazy hack. Sorry if that offends you! 
Paul Zuvella fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Jun 24, 2018 |
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Jun 24, 2018 02:18
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Why are you playing a game you hate? Go play a game that tackles touchy subjects like racism with finesse like... uh... https://youtu.be/RwGI7su0QlA Oh. Paul Zuvella posted:Your entire argument is "I'm right, you're wrong, Stop posting!" and its really loving stupid. You literally responded to me by telling me I'm wrong and now you're accusing me of doing that. David Cage isn't a genius writer, I just don't think this is a bad game and I legitimately enjoyed it. And, I mean, you kind of have to compare the writing to other video games. That's not exactly a high bar. KillHour fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Jun 24, 2018 |
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Jun 24, 2018 02:21
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Nice Meltdown
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Jun 24, 2018 02:23
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Paul Zuvella posted:Are you literally David Cage? That's the only thing that I think would make all this make sense. No, I just don't see why nobody is allowed to think the game is good. People can like stuff. You don't have to be the arbiter of taste. Paul Zuvella posted:Nice Meltdown Mmm, yes, quite 
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Jun 24, 2018 02:25
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KillHour posted:Not every piece of media has to reflect the message you want. If the only thing "wrong" with it is that it doesn't advance your particular message then find something else that does or make your own game. The creators wanted to focus on the idea that intelligence isn't a uniquely human thing and making it about race relations in the US would have nothing to do with that point. The MLK / civil rights stuff only exists to anchor it in something familiar. Is it cheap? Maybe, but it's probably realistic. I would want to associate my cause with historically significant and important causes too. You read the civil rights stuff as pandering to the player, but it's not. It's pandering to the in-game humans and it's probably the smart way to go if it was real life.
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Jun 24, 2018 02:25
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:The game is called Detroit: Become Human. Detroit: Become something slightly resembling a human but not really
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Jun 24, 2018 02:27
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:The game is called Detroit: Become Human. Probably because David Cage wants desperately to be a real human. 
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Jun 24, 2018 02:27
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KillHour posted:Probably because David Cage wants desperately to be a real human. I felt like Kamski was his author self-insert, which is funny in several ways, some intentional, some not so much.
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Jun 24, 2018 02:40
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Oxxidation posted:and the recycling center is styled off death camps right down to the showers It's also worth noting that he wasn't the sole writer this time. So now we've got typical Cage melodrama interspersed with sub par B grade CBS cop drama. It's evident at a sniff where the Cage taint lies. And this, from a narrative standpoint, is QD's best work.
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Jun 24, 2018 02:50
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Oxxidation posted:connor's storyline is also a sea of cliche, it's just cliche that a) cage already finished loving up several times before, which is the closest he can come to actual experience, and b) is pulled groaning and bleeding over the finish line by the efforts of the actors involved Clancy Brown puts in so much work, it's not even funny. Cage probably did not have a binder full of Brown's baby pictures or whatever so he didn't have that weighing over his head and bringing down his performance.
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Jun 24, 2018 02:53
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I’ve been watching the mdc's playthrough and Connor does not sound at all like he looks and while the dude’s got a good va I agree with them that he should have been played by Sheldon
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Jun 24, 2018 03:35
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Calaveron posted:Connor does not sound at all like he looks I mean he's modeled exactly off his VA
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Jun 24, 2018 03:50
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:The robots have to sit at the back of the bus. No they don't, Kara doesn't sit at the back of the bus after she escapes with Alice and the driver doesn't tut tut her about it either. I don't think that bus even has the android compartment thing in the back. edit: And to respond to this post which was responding to me earlier: Paul Zuvella posted:
The reason those comparisons are being drawn in the first place is because they may someday affect androids in the same way as they affected those people in our own history- or at least, the game thinks so. It's showing that a revolution such as the civil rights movement really worked, and it can work again. It's simplified down to a fine point because games/movies/novels don't have that kind of time unless they're showing a ton of different perspectives World War Z style, but to say it's not fair to the real people to put that in the game is completely missing the point. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Jun 24, 2018 |
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Jun 24, 2018 03:50
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the fact that your immediate reference to multiple perspectives in a work of fiction is world war z doesn't help your position very much
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Jun 24, 2018 03:56
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That's literally what World War Z is and you knew about it and the connection I was making so maybe get off your high horse?
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Jun 24, 2018 03:58
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"racism doesn't exist, as you can see by the stylistic similarities to this seminal Book About Zombies"
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Jun 24, 2018 03:59
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Well in my post I was saying that Detroit is unlike World War Z so you already failed the reading comprehension test lol. Please stop posting if you have nothing to contribute.
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Jun 24, 2018 04:00
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Oxxidation posted:the fact that your immediate reference to multiple perspectives in a work of fiction is world war z doesn't help your position very much I mean I’m not there yet but I’m sniffing out a plot twist early on when Kara is tidying up Todd’s room and she picks up a blurry catalogue that says NEW MODEL with a picture of obviously Alice and she studies it for a full second before putting it away and that’s kinda bs because then you break the conceit of a character being our perspective
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Jun 24, 2018 04:01
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Calaveron posted:I mean I’m not there yet but I’m sniffing out a plot twist early on when Kara is tidying up Todd’s room and she picks up a blurry catalogue that says NEW MODEL with a picture of obviously Alice and she studies it for a full second before putting it away and that’s kinda bs because then you break the conceit of a character being our perspective no worries, you're not the first to have picked up on that and wunderkinder like cjacobs have a full battery of justifications for why that's not bad writing either
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Jun 24, 2018 04:02
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Calaveron posted:I mean I’m not there yet but I’m sniffing out a plot twist early on when Kara is tidying up Todd’s room and she picks up a blurry catalogue that says NEW MODEL with a picture of obviously Alice and she studies it for a full second before putting it away and that’s kinda bs because then you break the conceit of a character being our perspective The twist is even dumber because the reason it blurs out is she doesn't put two and two together and is all shocked when she finds out at the end of the game. There's even a flashback to that exact scene when she realizes. It's real dumb.
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Jun 24, 2018 04:04
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CJacobs posted:You keep saying that but you refuse to explain why. Is there a reason Quantic Dream can't separate the real world events from the baggage they carry, from the real people that were affected? Is there a reason you can't? ^this is why this is the worst game ever and why everyone who likes it is unironically going to hell
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Jun 24, 2018 04:04
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Oxxidation posted:no worries, you're not the first to have picked up on that and wunderkinder like cjacobs have a full battery of justifications for why that's not bad writing either That's one of the points of Kara's story I found to be truly weak so no you're incorrect. edit: Not everyone has a one-sided point of view, there's no reason to either like everything or hate everything about it blindly. I ain't gonna be pigeonholed like that my dude. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Jun 24, 2018 |
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Jun 24, 2018 04:04
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Didn't Kara sit where she did on the bus because by that point she'd already gone deviant and was trying to pretend she wasn't an android because she was being hunted by the police?
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Jun 24, 2018 04:05
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KillHour posted:but it's probably realistic no its not you idiot
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Jun 24, 2018 04:06
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I love that this game makes people mad that it even exists. A good game for that alone.
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Jun 24, 2018 04:07
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