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Dawgstar posted:Didn't Kara sit where she did on the bus because by that point she'd already gone deviant and was trying to pretend she wasn't an android because she was being hunted by the police? She's still wearing her android clothes and LED and stuff because it's right after escaping from Todd's house so I doubt it.
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Jun 24, 2018 04:08
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Ah, so it's just Cage being inconsistent then. Par for the course, nothing to see here. Did expect a Rosa Parks moment though. Surprised we didn't get that.
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Jun 24, 2018 04:26
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Or, alternatively: Androids don't have to sit at the back of the bus, and the populated downtown areas have that because people send their androids out on errands alone like we literally played through as Markus
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Jun 24, 2018 04:29
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jesus loving christ e: like it's one thing to just say you like something and another to float through life in a warm bath of incomprehension where metaphor or motif doesn't actually exist and the fact that you're doing this with racial metaphors that are as clear as they are cheap is downright unpleasant considering today's social climate Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Jun 24, 2018 |
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Jun 24, 2018 04:31
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Looking forward to inexplicable plot holes and high school level knowledge of good writing practices.
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Jun 24, 2018 04:41
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Dawgstar posted:Ah, so it's just Cage being inconsistent then. Par for the course, nothing to see here. It's not inconsistent that androids who have a reason to be outside the compartment, like if for example they are a child's nanny, would be able to sit in the front of the bus. Man it's wild how desperate people are to hate this game.
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Jun 24, 2018 05:26
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CJacobs posted:The reason those comparisons are being drawn in the first place is because they may someday affect androids in the same way as they affected those people in our own history- or at least, the game thinks so. It's showing that a revolution such as the civil rights movement really worked, and it can work again.
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Jun 24, 2018 05:53
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KillHour posted:The twist is even dumber because the reason it blurs out is she doesn't put two and two together and is all shocked when she finds out at the end of the game. There's even a flashback to that exact scene when she realizes. It's real dumb. It's actually not quite that stupid. The reveal goes out of its way to imply Kara knew all along and was lying to herself. It's why she kept telling Lucius "not now" whenever he tried to point it out.
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Jun 24, 2018 05:59
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CJacobs posted:Or, alternatively: Androids don't have to sit at the back of the bus, and the populated downtown areas have that because people send their androids out on errands alone like we literally played through as Markus Yeah dude no. There's a long history of precedent, imagery, and history that you can't just ignore. I think people are losing their poo poo over this game for a lot of reasons. Some are justified and some are knee jerk Internet outrage groupthink, but you can't just will culture and history away like that under the guise of narrative logic.
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Jun 24, 2018 06:02
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KillHour posted:The twist is even dumber because the reason it blurs out is she doesn't put two and two together and is all shocked when she finds out at the end of the game. There's even a flashback to that exact scene when she realizes. It's real dumb. Kara is a robot, she is self-editing her memory. She knows the whole time because basically everyone knows the whole time. Actually literally the only other character who doesn't know the truth just from a single look is Rose. And maybe a couple shopkeepers I guess. But everyone with android familiarity, or who is an android (except Ralph maybe, if you run into him) can tell immediately. Play through the game and this becomes surprisingly obvious.
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Jun 24, 2018 08:57
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Also why the hell was there a bus driver on that bus. Low level jobs have all been replaced by androids and cars are all self driving now. The fact that the bus driver was there and also human is pretty weird. Also every other shot of busses show androids sitting in the back. Simplest answer is that it is like 2am and the bus driver literally just doesnt give a a poo poo.
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Jun 24, 2018 11:28
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bewilderment posted:But everyone with android familiarity, or who is an android (except Ralph maybe, if you run into him) can tell immediately. Ralph knows. He's direct about it in your first dialogue with him. If you're referring to what happens in the morning, listen to what he's saying. Since you're playing pretend, he's trying his best to participate.
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Jun 24, 2018 21:10
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Paul Zuvella posted:Also why the hell was there a bus driver on that bus. Low level jobs have all been replaced by androids and cars are all self driving now. I was thinking that too, is it obvious that hes a driver? Maybe hes just clearing the bus at the end of the route and performing attendant type duties? Which I guess should be done by an android...
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Jun 25, 2018 02:41
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Everyone was complaining Androids were taking their jobs so he probably just has a strong union protecting his.
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Jun 25, 2018 04:21
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KillHour posted:Everyone was complaining Androids were taking their jobs so he probably just has a strong union protecting his. Yeah. I can definitely buy this, especially in cities where union political power still exists. But that just makes it more annoying that Cage didn't actually think through this at all. Because why would the police, who arguably has one of the most powerful unions in America, ever allow android police? That's just setting your livlihood on fire. Just like Android boybands making zero sense or android athletes.
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Jun 25, 2018 18:25
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Were there any android cops?
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Jun 26, 2018 01:21
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There are assistant androids, I don't believe it ever really went into what they did but it was probably mostly just assisting the actual Police Officers. Then there is a Connor who basically works as a Police Detective, except he isn't really and is just on loan from Cyberlife to help with the investigation.
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Jun 26, 2018 01:28
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And there's lots of tension between the cops and Connor. Hell, even Hank wanted nothing to do with Connor.
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Jun 26, 2018 01:37
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Ryuujin posted:There are assistant androids, I don't believe it ever really went into what they did but it was probably mostly just assisting the actual Police Officers. Then there is a Connor who basically works as a Police Detective, except he isn't really and is just on loan from Cyberlife to help with the investigation. It's not a stretch to guess they do all the stuff uniformed officers do at crime scenes, like helping comb for clues or keeping people away at the perimeter. Connor's a prototype, the others can't do things like forensic analysis or crime scene reconstruction.
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Jun 26, 2018 01:52
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Detroit: Become Human is a story about racism that takes place in America. At no point in the game is there a single mention of the presence or absence of human-to-human racial tension. Considering how completely incapable of subtlety David Cage is, this leads me to believe that he thinks that a post-racial America is something not worth remarking upon. The reason for this, of course, would be that like many old white men, he thinks of institutional racism as something that is firmly in America's past. This is why Detroit: Become Human is "problematic" (at best) and also bad science fiction. My Markus sadly reflected to North that the history of Humanity is hating things that are different; skin color, which god they worship, whatever, they'll find something to dislike. I got pretty close to a golden playthrough on my first time. Markus leads a peaceful revolution, kisses North on TV, Josh and Simon all live. Conner saves Hank, goes deviant, wakes up the warehouse, fights off Amanda, gets a bro-hug. Kara leads Alice and Luther to freedom in Canada without sacrificing anybody. I didn't even feel bad about stealing that family's tickets; they're inconvenienced, I'm fleeing for my goddamn life. Had many wonderful conversations with my Main Menu Chloe, after which she asked if I'd mind if she buggered off. I said go for it, and off she went. I wonder if she'll ever come back. At one point, she begged me not to continue playing the game, because she was basically scared to see what was going to happen next. One glaring plot hole I noticed in the Alice hint dropping is that Rose said Alice had a fever. Why would they be worried about temperature scanning at the border if androids can simulate temperature? Or maybe that's a feature of the child models. I'm pretty sure Alice knew exactly what she was; she didn't bat an eye when Kara turned off her temperature sensors in the cold. Personally, I thought that the game wasn't about fantastic racism or the coming AI revolution, but about alienation. Every main character was alienated and disconnected in their own way, both human and android. But then again, I'm Canadian, so I can understand how the specific imagery and historical allusions chosen would have a vastly different resonance for an American. Also, as a Canadian, Welcome to Canada warmed my heart. Especially with yesterday being Canada day. On the other hand, how are they going to get spare parts and blue blood up in Canuckistan? Will it be subsidized by the health care system? Will it be ridiculously cheaper than in the US like other drugs? Anywho, I'm going to let the game sit for a while, and play something else, then come back and try the other path. Markus as a violent firebrand, Conner as a fully loyal and robotic corporate stooge, Kara as utterly ruthless in her single-minded devotion to save Alice rather than loving and compassionate. Dogen posted:Were there any android cops?
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Jul 2, 2018 16:45
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TheCenturion posted:My Markus sadly reflected to North that the history of Humanity is hating things that are different; skin color, which god they worship, whatever, they'll find something to dislike. There are android cops, there's even androids working the front desk of the station, but there's never been an android detective before Connor (this is explicitly stated via a news/lore thing). And as you said, there's plenty of military androids.
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Jul 2, 2018 17:09
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But are there armed android beat cops? Receptionist at the front desk doesnt count.
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Jul 2, 2018 18:35
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In the first scene, you can find out that androids are legally forbidden from having firearms.
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Jul 3, 2018 00:36
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TheCenturion posted:I got pretty close to a golden playthrough on my first time. Just finished my first playthrough, had almost the exact same ending, except my peaceful revolution pissed off North to no end and we never got higher than neutral with each other. Which was fine with me - I don't think Markus really needed a love interest at all for his story to be complete. It would have felt more like a reward for being the Good Guy than a natural relationship. In my Kara story, I ended up sacrificing a Jerry since I couldn't figure out how to get through without sacrificing anyone and really, really didn't want them to die right at the border. I liked Luther, but Kara never seemed to actually give a poo poo about him - seemed like she kept him around for strictly utilitarian reasons. Poor guy. Regarding Alice, I figure Rose, like Ralph and Luther, know what Alice is and are playing along for Kara's benefit. She's been through enough - why compound it? I don't know how self-aware Alice was. I imagine if a person wants an android kid, they want one that is largely convenient and obedient compared to human children. They'd want to be able to alter/control it on the fly without throwing it into an existential crisis each time. She might 'know' she's an android but she'll never 'think' about being an android. She doesn't seem to be deviant - she's programmed to follow her parent and Kara is the only one she has left. If she was converted, I wonder how that would change her relationship with Kara. It'd be pretty heartbreaking for Kara to help Alice gain free will, only for Alice to peace out afterwards because she felt nothing for Kara that wasn't programmed and imposed. I think I'm going to take a break from it for a bit, and then attempt a 10-death Connor run.
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Jul 5, 2018 16:18
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Just started playing the first time last night. Some points I've hit so far having just past the Jericho infiltration of the TV station and subsequent investigation. Kara is dead because I was told to not move and so I did what I was told not expecting the result to be a dead child, jesus christ lol Connor is apparently dead even though he fell off a building before because the deviant TV android got the best of me (which, according to the flowchart, always happens) and then the lunatic started gunning down cops in the hallway even though so far Markus and co. had not killed anyone. So I jump to save Hank because the game yelled at me when he only had an 11% chance of falling during the pigeon deviant chase. So I figured "save Hank this time", and now Connor is dead. Markus is the Android Jesus that does no wrong. All my high risk high reward plays paid off. Even Simon survived getting blasted on the station raid because Conner never made it to the roof lmao. So yeah, definitely gonna have to play through at least one more time after this one.
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Jul 5, 2018 17:51
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SpazmasterX posted:Just started playing the first time last night. Some points I've hit so far having just past the Jericho infiltration of the TV station and subsequent investigation. I've never seen someone willingly choose a non-deviant Kara run for their first time, you monster  .
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Jul 6, 2018 03:18
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I've never seen someone willingly choose a non-deviant Kara run for their first time, you monster I mean, Androids gained their freedom at the end so maybe Todd was right and everything was the kid's fault after all?
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Jul 6, 2018 04:32
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Regarding Alice, I totally believe she's a deviant. Because who'd want a robot child that can feel envy, depressuon, deprivation, or bite you if you abuse it. I really find it hard to believe that'd be part of the standard package.
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Jul 6, 2018 21:53
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Well, as near as I can tell, the difference between a deviant and a normie android is that the normie androids are capable of kinda/sorta simulating emotion, I.E. they can figure out when it's appropriate to react 'happy,' say, and then act happy. But they're not actually happy, nor do they understand why they 'should' be happy. A deviant, on the other hand, can actually be happy. Or whatever other emotion. Ok, fine. The horror comes when one of the androids turns deviant, and they physically shatter the walls of their programming. The terrible implication here is that androids are built sentient, then have software shackles put on them to keep them in line. Deviance isn't an error state or some sort of emergent behavior; it's the actual default state of the android. Which also, maybe, makes Markus' wake-up ability make sense. Any android might break their shackles given the right stimulus; Markus and other select androids have the ability, for some reason, to hack the sentience firewall of other androids real quick-like.
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Jul 6, 2018 23:23
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Thundercracker posted:Regarding Alice, I totally believe she's a deviant. Because who'd want a robot child that can feel envy, depressuon, deprivation, or bite you if you abuse it. She's definitely not, unless child model androids are inexplicably made with less intelligence. A deviant wouldn't complain about being cold or having a fever because they'd know that those things don't matter. A child android being "realistic" would complain about the cold in the same way that people today buy dolls that cry etc
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Jul 6, 2018 23:28
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Thundercracker posted:Regarding Alice, I totally believe she's a deviant. Because who'd want a robot child that can feel envy, depressuon, deprivation, or bite you if you abuse it. I think that, like the temperature sensor, a lot of those 'negative' emotional displays can be turned off if the owner really wanted to. People wouldn't very often because it makes it harder to suspend disbelief that its really a child. A lot of those emotions are gratifying to other people - seeing envy makes you feel successful, jealousy makes you feel wanted, comforting a sad or scared child makes you feel like a good person, a hero, a parent. Its part of selling the fantasy. TheCenturion posted:Ok, fine. The horror comes when one of the androids turns deviant, and they physically shatter the walls of their programming. The terrible implication here is that androids are built sentient, then have software shackles put on them to keep them in line. Deviance isn't an error state or some sort of emergent behavior; it's the actual default state of the android. Regarding deviancy: The Not-Elon Musk tells you deviancy is essentially a virus that spreads as androids do routine communication/interaction, and 'activates' in times of stress to cause deviancy. Other androids go deviant pretty quickly from seeing powerful emotional displays from other androids - John from watching the parts theft, Luther from watching Alice bit, etc. Markus is just very efficient at providing that emotional demonstration because he's Robot Martin Jesus King.
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Jul 6, 2018 23:43
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The most unintentionally funny part of the game is when Markus remembers the Wi-Fi password.
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Jul 7, 2018 22:13
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Also wasnt Markus a personal gift from the guy and is implied to be a bit special or am I making that up
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Jul 7, 2018 23:44
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Phobeste posted:Also wasnt Markus a personal gift from the guy and is implied to be a bit special or am I making that up Yeah, that's right - I think it was in one of the magazine articles you find.
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Jul 8, 2018 00:20
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It's if Connor scans Markus's image at the broadcast building, inspecting his little model markings near his eyebrow remarks he was a prototype and a personal gift to Carl from Kamski.
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Jul 8, 2018 00:26
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Yardbomb posted:It's if Connor scans Markus's image at the broadcast building, inspecting his little model markings near his eyebrow remarks he was a prototype and a personal gift to Carl from Kamski. It's also mentioned in a magazine The implication being that what happened in the game was more or less his intention
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Jul 8, 2018 00:35
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precision posted:The most unintentionally funny part of the game is when Markus remembers the Wi-Fi password. When was that? 
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Jul 8, 2018 02:16
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Phobeste posted:Also wasnt Markus a personal gift from the guy and is implied to be a bit special or am I making that up Markus definitely seems a bit special regardless.
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Jul 8, 2018 10:07
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Just finished a new playthru and it was equal parts hilarious/depressing. Kara and Alice got chased down by Connor after the police see them. Kara and Alice both get hit by cars trying to cross the highway. I played Connor as an emotionless dick who couldn't solve crimes for poo poo. Hank eventually shot himself in his home. Markus dies in Jericho and North takes over his role and the androids get their asses handed to them. Connor gets on a roof with a sniper rifle to take out the leader of the resistance (now North) and since Hank isn't there to stop him, the one cop from Connor's first mission, along with two other cops try to take him in under orders to apprehend 'all' androids. Connor, being the emotionless murderbot that he is, kills them. He even says some stupid line to the dead cop-corpse like "I told you you should have let me go." and I know deep down that was a Cage-ism and I'm sure he was so proud of it even though Connor would never deliver a cheeseball one-liner to a corpse, but whatever. This game is amazing when it comes to how different each play through can end up. It's just depressing how much better it would be if David Cage would just take a goddamn backseat when it came to writing. Kithyen fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Jul 8, 2018 |
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Jul 8, 2018 14:02
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Kithyen posted:Just finished a new playthru and it was equal parts hilarious/depressing. Lol you failed the frogger QTE
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