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Geomancing
Jan 8, 2004

I am not an egghead. I am well-read.

Really Pants posted:

firm and thrusting :discourse:

En garde, dodge, parry, thrust, spin, fix beak.

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ManxomeBromide
Jan 29, 2009

old school
Oh man, now I'm kicking myself for not mentioning that Quakers use "thee" even as the subject.

This guy's threatening to throw us in the river, not kill us. We should be determined and firm but clearly he's an OK guy and we can trust him.

ManxomeBromide fucked around with this message at 06:47 on May 31, 2018

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



I love how the protagonist has a dagger but we're all considering them unarmed anyway.

Commander Keene
Dec 21, 2016

Faster than the others



He's also explicitly unskilled in its use, so yeah, taking on someone who knows which end of the weapon goes towards the enemy is probably a bad idea. Remember how well his previous attempts at combat went? He got literally eaten alive both times.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Oh I wasn't saying that we were wrong in doing so.

ManxomeBromide
Jan 29, 2009

old school
Yeah, I wouldn't say that dagger's just for show, but at best we'll be using it to clean that half-a-grouse the hermit gave us.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



I do expect the dagger to turn up in a puzzle solution sometime, but as a tool.

Commander Keene
Dec 21, 2016

Faster than the others



I expect the grouse we got from the hermit to be a puzzle solution (or maybe an alternate solution, because it was optional) at some point, so I definitely assume we'll be getting some use out of that dagger, as well.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

Commander Keene posted:

I expect the grouse we got from the hermit to be a puzzle solution (or maybe an alternate solution, because it was optional) at some point, so I definitely assume we'll be getting some use out of that dagger, as well.

Is that even something this game can handle, though? It doesn't remember the "state" of the various Places of Power we enter, so I wouldn't expect it to be remembering any optional changes to our inventory, either.

Commander Keene
Dec 21, 2016

Faster than the others



PurpleXVI posted:

Is that even something this game can handle, though? It doesn't remember the "state" of the various Places of Power we enter, so I wouldn't expect it to be remembering any optional changes to our inventory, either.
I obviously don't know how this game was coded, but it's fairly simple to check if the player has an item in their inventory. I suspect the game not saving the state of PoPs is more to prevent unwinnable states rather than technical limitations.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Commander Keene posted:

I obviously don't know how this game was coded, but it's fairly simple to check if the player has an item in their inventory. I suspect the game not saving the state of PoPs is more to prevent unwinnable states rather than technical limitations.
I suspect we don't actually have an inventory. I don't think anything is saved between Places of Power. If we gain a sword and use it later, it's because we did so in a non-optional manner in a mandatory place of power.

Nakar
Sep 2, 2002

Ultima Ratio Regum
Level One: Break Time? But We Only Just Started!
In which we can die, but not in the places you'd expect.

Guess that dagger's not so useless after all, if you don't mind it being the wrong solution. :smaug:

Zereth posted:

I suspect we don't actually have an inventory. I don't think anything is saved between Places of Power. If we gain a sword and use it later, it's because we did so in a non-optional manner in a mandatory place of power.
This is 100% correct. We always have our dagger because the game explicitly states that we do; were we ever to acquire a magic sword, it'd have to be a mandatory part of the story. Now there will be times where we acquire something and have to prove we have it, but doing so involves a puzzle where we wouldn't know what the item actually is unless we'd acquired it already. Obviously you can cheat this and produce an object you never actually got.

EDIT: Believe it or not, we're halfway through the first level in terms of raw Places of Power. There are a total of 19. That said, they get longer pretty quickly, so in terms of raw content we're probably not quite halfway.

Nakar fucked around with this message at 14:55 on May 31, 2018

Zanzibar Ham
Mar 17, 2009

You giving me the cold shoulder? How cruel.


Grimey Drawer

Nakar posted:

Too bad that dude only appears in this one scene, to murder us. He could've saved us a lot of trouble.

In a way you could say he did...

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
PREPARE TO DIE, FAT MAN sounds like something Steve would yell at some point, if she was dealing with this.

Probably at several points, really.

ManxomeBromide
Jan 29, 2009

old school
One of the interesting bits of setting up MadMaze as being this place of utter chaos is that you can put a character like the Woodsman in there and have him behave exactly like a cranky fantasy ranger and this ends up feeling like a relief to a tense situation as opposed to as an obvious cliche.

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011

Commander Keene posted:

He's also explicitly unskilled in its use, so yeah, taking on someone who knows which end of the weapon goes towards the enemy is probably a bad idea. Remember how well his previous attempts at combat went? He got literally eaten alive both times.

Actually I think the lady just throws you into the pot and you can still talk to her normally after first trying to attack her? Apparently attempted murder is fine with her, but bothering her too long means it's supper time.

Ramc
May 4, 2008

Bringing your thread to a screeching halt, guaranteed.

Oh my gosh I haven't even thought about this in over a decade.

Nakar
Sep 2, 2002

Ultima Ratio Regum
Level One: The Lady & The Lists
In which we merrily avoid all potential dangers and then put ourselves in the most obvious danger we've ever been in before.

ManxomeBromide posted:

One of the interesting bits of setting up MadMaze as being this place of utter chaos is that you can put a character like the Woodsman in there and have him behave exactly like a cranky fantasy ranger and this ends up feeling like a relief to a tense situation as opposed to as an obvious cliche.
It does well with that, although it also sometimes veers wildly off the rails. The good thing is, however, that being aware of the cliches and legends can be of help to you, as if nothing else it can tell you the thing not to do. Not an example from the game, but knowing you're up against a basilisk or Medusa would make it clear that looking into their eyes is a Very Bad Plan, and in general that will not steer you wrong here in MadMaze. What we find is unpredictable, but the more meta-knowledge we have the smarter we can be about things.

nweismuller
Oct 11, 2012

They say that he who dies with the most Opil wins.

I am winning.
I say we should try our best, but only to prove our merit. This knight can ride us down if we try to flee (attempting to flee on foot from an opponent on horseback in open ground is basically the single most suicidal thing you can do), but maybe he'll take an honorable yield if we establish our valor. (Not that I can count on that, but you did say this is survivable...)

And they do go out of their way to point out this isn't the knight that committed a foul...

nweismuller fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Jun 1, 2018

Zanzibar Ham
Mar 17, 2009

You giving me the cold shoulder? How cruel.


Grimey Drawer

nweismuller posted:

I say we should try our best, but only to prove our merit. This knight can ride us down if we try to flee (attempting to flee on foot from an opponent on horseback in open ground is basically the single most suicidal thing you can do), but maybe he'll take an honorable yield if we establish our valor. (Not that I can count on that, but you did say this is survivable...)

And they do go out of their way to point out this isn't the knight that committed a foul...

Took the words right out of my mouth. I'm almost certain we shouldn't go for the kill at least, since that's mainly why we cried foul in the first place.

Adamant
Jan 30, 2013

Huh, I was sure I had missed a PoP telling me it'd be a good idea to drink from that lake, but apparently I hadn't.

This is the PoP I made it to, though I got a bit further into the event than this. Let's fight gallantly and see where that takes us.

Epsilon Moonshade
Nov 22, 2016

Not an excellent host.

It's pointed out that he's a black knight.

Obviously the answer is to cut off his arms and legs, and call it a draw. :v:

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Go for the kill. Nobody here is honorable, they don't care if we're craven or brave, just whether we satisfy their bloodlust.

curiousCat
Sep 23, 2012

Does this look like the face of mercy, kupo?
Prove our merit.

Domus
May 7, 2007

Kidney Buddies
Might as well finish what we started. Don't be a jerk and try to kill him. It's worse to purposely kill in a tournament than it is to strike someone in the back. In fact, isn't a back-strike perfectly legal?

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.

Domus posted:

Might as well finish what we started. Don't be a jerk and try to kill him. It's worse to purposely kill in a tournament than it is to strike someone in the back. In fact, isn't a back-strike perfectly legal?

Depends on era and area, but the most well-known form is: "Strike only the shield to unseat the foe", and there's a huge emphasis on conducting one self honorably, even putting oneself at a purposeful disadvantage to prove one's Chivalric honor, so a back strike would definitely be consider gauche in a lot of more chivalry-bound tournaments.

Nordick
Sep 3, 2011

Yes.
I appreciate that two of the "magic words" you can futilely yell in the forest are straight from Lord of the Rings, albeit one is slightly misspelled. Namely, they're from the inscription on the One Ring:

Ash nazg durbatulūk, ash nazg gimbatul
ash nazg thrakatulūk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul


I suppose this isn't really pertinent to anything in this game, but it's a nice little reference.

Adamant
Jan 30, 2013

Nordick posted:

I suppose this isn't really pertinent to anything in this game, but it's a nice little reference.

Captain Marvel's "Shazam" is on the list too.

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe

Nordick posted:

I appreciate that two of the "magic words" you can futilely yell in the forest are straight from Lord of the Rings, albeit one is slightly misspelled. Namely, they're from the inscription on the One Ring:

Ash nazg durbatulūk, ash nazg gimbatul
ash nazg thrakatulūk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul


I suppose this isn't really pertinent to anything in this game, but it's a nice little reference.

It reminds me of the Interplay Fellowship of the Ring game, where yelling random words of Elvish poetry was magic.

Epsilon Moonshade
Nov 22, 2016

Not an excellent host.

Adamant posted:

Captain Marvel's "Shazam" is on the list too.

I'm kind of disappointed that XYZZY or PLUGH weren't, though.

ManxomeBromide
Jan 29, 2009

old school
Y2 was obviously a Place of Power, but not one within the MadMaze.

TheGreatEvilKing
Mar 28, 2016





Prove our valor, if this guy actually is a legit honorable knight he'll take off the armor and fight us fairly on foot.

Nakar
Sep 2, 2002

Ultima Ratio Regum
Level One: The Elf-King & The Black Knight
In which we lose, then win the tournament in a single day.

TheGreatEvilKing posted:

Prove our valor, if this guy actually is a legit honorable knight he'll take off the armor and fight us fairly on foot.
Some of you are much smarter than you may realize, but all in due time.

Adamant
Jan 30, 2013

Nakar posted:

Level One: The Elf-King & The Black Knight
In which we lose, then win the tournament in a single day.

Some of you are much smarter than you may realize, but all in due time.

And finally, supposing we ignored Gonzaga's wise warning and chose to remain at the tournament?

This is how I died. Tostien had told me to WIN the tournament, and my equipment seemed pretty unbeatable, so I figured I'd have a shot. Didn't work out too well.

Adamant fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Jun 2, 2018

nweismuller
Oct 11, 2012

They say that he who dies with the most Opil wins.

I am winning.
Well, I have to say 'winning a tourney via elf magic' wasn't exactly what I expected.

ManxomeBromide
Jan 29, 2009

old school
Tostien's advice isn't what we wanted - that sword won't get us into Castle Perilous - but he just spoke of freeing a King. The King's under the castle, right?

I'm leaving a note to myself: when we ultimately hit up the Castle, we go up first.

TheGreatEvilKing
Mar 28, 2016





Can we say Tostien's name in later encounters or was that a 1-time deal?

Commander Keene
Dec 21, 2016

Faster than the others



TheGreatEvilKing posted:

Can we say Tostien's name in later encounters or was that a 1-time deal?
He said his power doesn't extend very far, so I'd assume it's a one-time deal. Also, he was just lending us a bit of magic to fight in the tourney, nothing else. Actually, we're pretty lucky that it worked as advertised this time; fey bargains tend to be traps more often than not in mythology. Calling on him again, if it even works, may not be advisable.

Nakar
Sep 2, 2002

Ultima Ratio Regum
Level One: Beauty & A Beast
We meet a god and are forced to endure poetry, in that order, twice.

Join us next time for what might actually be our first genuinely difficult puzzle unless, you know, you understand basic logic.

TheGreatEvilKing posted:

Can we say Tostien's name in later encounters or was that a 1-time deal?
We may have the option, but whether it does anything for good or ill remains to be seen. As mentioned, his power won't be any good to us once we're actually in the Castle Perilous.

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whitehelm
Apr 20, 2008

Nakar posted:

Level One: Beauty & A Beast
We meet a god and are forced to endure poetry, in that order, twice.

Join us next time for what might actually be our first genuinely difficult puzzle unless, you know, you understand basic logic.

We may have the option, but whether it does anything for good or ill remains to be seen. As mentioned, his power won't be any good to us once we're actually in the Castle Perilous.

He's yellow today, as we can clearly see in the picture.

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